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Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post Archive through May 15, 2003 Brian W. Schoeneman 25  1  5-15-03  3:45 pm Archive through May 19, 2003 Scott Medine 25  1  5-19-03  8:47 am Archive through November 06, 2003 Caroline Anne Morris 18  1  11-06-03  5:01 am Archive through November 16, 2003 Glenn L Andersson 25  1  11-16-03  11:47 am Archive through November 25, 2003 Sarah Long 25  1  11-25-03  9:29 am Archive through December 03, 2003 Alan Sharp 25  1  12-03-03  6:52 am Archive through December 04, 2003 Diana 25  1  12-04-03  8:58 am Archive through December 09, 2003 Cludgy 25  1  12-09-03  11:14 am Archive through December 10, 2003 Diana 25  1  12-10-03  5:18 pm Archive through December 15, 2003 Glenn L Andersson 25  1  12-15-03  2:34 pm Archive through December 17, 2003 Alan Sharp 25  1  12-17-03  6:49 am Archive through December 19, 2003 Sarah Long 25  1  12-19-03  6:00 am Archive through December 20, 2003 Glenn L Andersson 25  1  12-20-03  7:26 pm Archive through December 23, 2003 Glenn L Andersson 25  1  12-23-03  5:29 pm Archive through December 28, 2003 Glenn L Andersson 25  1  12-28-03  11:27 am Archive through December 30, 2003 Richard Brian Nunwee 25  1  12-30-03  2:15 am Archive through January 12, 2004 Alan Sharp 25  1  1-12-04  7:09 am Archive through January 15, 2004 Sarah Long 25  1  1-15-04  12:06 pm Archive through January 22, 2004 Sarah Long 25  1  1-22-04  7:47 am Archive through January 30, 2004 Leanne Perry 25  1  1-30-04  4:11 am Archive through February 10, 2004 Rosa 25  1  2-10-04  9:41 pm Archive through February 13, 2004 AP Wolf 25  1  2-13-04  5:21 pm   Closed: New threads not accepted on this page

Author Message   CB Unregistered guest Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 5:37 pm:        Hi Sarah, CANT BELIEVE YOU DISAGREE WITH ME DONT LET IT HAPPEN AGAIN.LOL I think if you have read any of my long winded post you know that I support Dr.T as the ripper. one of the big problems with him is that he is gay. I asked Wolf if sexual confusion could cause a gay man to kill women. Wolf said that sexual confusion has been a motive for crimes agaist women. I could be wrong but I always felt that the takeing of the organs is an important clue so I tried to come up with a theory why Tumblety might take the organs in other words I was just fishing. TAKE CARE,CB   Sarah Long Chief Inspector Username: Sarah Post Number: 649 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 11:29 am:        CB, I personally have never heard of gay men killing women, I have heard of gay men killing men though. Did Tumblety have a problem with being gay then? I suppose he probably did as back then it was deemed as some kind of madness to be gay, in fact I think they called it something like "sexual madness" but I'm not sure on the exact wording so don't quote me on that. Sarah   CB Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 5:43 pm:        Hi Sarah, Thanks for your responce. Jack the Ripper is only serial killer I have been interested in so I dont know of a case were a homosexual male killed women. Was silence of the lambs a true story? Profileing is not an exact science. Just because it is not common doese not make it impossible. I threw my two cents into the MO. disscussion on this thread and asked Wolf if sexual confussion could cause a homosexual male to murder women If the stories are to be believed Dr.T was maried when younger and his collection of female organs would at the very least suggest an unnatual obssesion with the female body. I realise this is not a tumblety thread and I have gotten of topic. I just threw out my idea on sexual confusion being a motive. All the best, CB   Sarah Long Chief Inspector Username: Sarah Post Number: 660 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 6:31 am:        Silence of the Lambs wasn't true but the killer was based on other serial killers. I can't remember which ones off hand. I haven't seen that film for a while. Was the killer (not Hannibal, the other one) gay then? I can't remember. I agree that because something isn't common doesn't make it impossible but you have to look at who a confused homosexual would be angry with. Why would he be angry at women? Sarah   Monty Chief Inspector Username: Monty Post Number: 738 Registered: 3-2003 Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 7:57 am:        Guys, Something has occured to me and I thought Id chuck it in the mixer see if its paletable, What are the chances that Jack stalked his victims for some time...possibly days ? Of course, Eddowes throws that out the window (the days scenario) but is it a high chance this happend ?? Just wonderin Monty   Sarah Long Chief Inspector Username: Sarah Post Number: 663 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 11:54 am:        Monty, It is possible I suppose, especially with Mary as he didn't find her just lurking on the street as she was killed in her home. If he did stalk them then the Kate issue is easily solved I think. Maybe he stalked Liz but when he killed her he was interrupted and got so annoyed that he ran off in a rage cursing his bad luck and then bumped into poor old Kate who he took his rage out on. Just an idea. Sarah   Michael Raney Detective Sergeant Username: Mikey559 Post Number: 98 Registered: 9-2003 Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 12:02 pm:        Monty, Stalking fits into my theory. I think Eddowes just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong (right for JTR)time. CB, Not that it isn't possible for JTR to have been gay, but I agree with Sarah. It is very hard to believe that a gay man would blame women or be upset with women for his sexual confusion. Speaking from my own experience, I was way more upset with guys for being attracted to me and trying to seduce me (my warped teenage beliefs) than I ever could have been at women. Just my beliefs and not based on psychology or anything scientific. Mikey   CB Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 11:20 am:        Hi Sarah, In the movie the killer was killing women for there skin He wanted to make a female body suit. I believe.He would throw them in a hole for days and make them put lotion on there skin to make there skin softer. I think that they inferd he was gay. He was not a real person tho so there is no real point. Hi Monty, I think it is possible he spent a few days picking a victim and wattching her to observe her patterns. The killings were spread out giveing him time to do so. Eddowes could have been in the wrong place at the wrong time after the ripper was interupted in the middle of the stride murder. The ripper may have got to know them socially in a pub before the day he killed them so they would feel safe around him I feel the killings were random with no stalking involved. He may of had a drink with them in a pub a time or two before the day he killed them but I doubt that. Thanks for your responce Sarah. I will keep thinking Take care, CB   CB Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 1:37 pm:        Hi Mikey, Thanks for your responce. I can see it going both ways. A gay man could take out his frustrations on men. It may be some form of denial of his own sexuallity. But I can also see it work the other way much like an Impotant man may blame his partner for his inabillity to perform. I do believe sexual frustration of some kind is the reason for the murders. All the best,CB   Sarah Long Chief Inspector Username: Sarah Post Number: 671 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 4:47 am:        CB, I can see it that way you suggest as in blaming a partner for not being able to perform so maybe Jack was gay and didn't know it or was impotent then I would accept that possibly. But if he knew he was gay but hated it then I can only see him taking it out on men if anybody. Sarah   Monty Chief Inspector Username: Monty Post Number: 747 Registered: 3-2003 Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 11:30 am:        CB, I see it more as Social frustration....which probably has a knock on effect on the sexual side. But what do I know....and who cares about what I know, His sexuality is something to think on. Monty   Sarah Long Chief Inspector Username: Sarah Post Number: 684 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 11:44 am:        Monty, Of course we all care about what you think. What do you mean by social frustration by the way, I can understand sexual frustration. Sarah   Monty Chief Inspector Username: Monty Post Number: 751 Registered: 3-2003 Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 12:05 pm:        Sarah, A frustration at not being able to act correctly (dare I say normally, maybe not the right word) within society. This could be due to physical deformity (it was suggested to me that Jack may have had, for example, a hare lip...or cleft palate ect), verbal problems (stammer...yes LEANNE or echolalia, ect), mental illness or just simply Jack was a shy boy. Whatever the reason it may have added to his frustration and anger. Obviously these reasons may also mean he wasnt quite a hit with the ladies. So I guess sexual frustration may have been born out of his social ineptitude. Monty   Sarah Long Chief Inspector Username: Sarah Post Number: 688 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 12:15 pm:        You mean a frustration at not being able to fit in socially, i.e. not being socially acceptable in some way? Ah ha! I understand now. I don't think much about the shy idea though. When I was a nipper (well up until I was 16) I was very shy, still am to a certain extent. I couldn't talk to strangers, let alone accost someone, take them to one side and then kill them. Apart from Joe, are any of the other suspects supposed to have had some sort of social inadequacy? Sarah   Monty Chief Inspector Username: Monty Post Number: 752 Registered: 3-2003 Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 12:32 pm:        Sarah, The shy thing maybe in certain situations. The victim may be a represenation of the person/persons he is shy with, or feels socially uneasy with. Sickert supposed to have had a physical deformity (cant see how that would effect him socially but could be a head thing), Druitts/Dr T's sexuality (as mentioned by CB, AP and Mikey...oh, and yourself). Im sure there are others. Monty   CB Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 12:11 pm:        Hi Monty, Thanks for your response. Any imput I can get on the Jack case IS TAKEN WITH GRATITUDE. I bet jack did spend alot of time alone but I think he liked it that way. Thanks for your response Sarah.   CB Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 2:35 pm:        Hi Monty, Thanks for your response. I wanted to know if sexuall confusion could lead to sexuall frustration and cause a gay may man to kill women. I wanted to give a possible expianation as to why Tumblety might have started to kill. If the Story is to be believed Tumblety had a wife when he was younger and his collection of organs would suggest a obssesion with the female body. I was working with Tumblety as an individual and not refering to gay men in general. That is a good thought on social frustration leading to sexual frustration. I dont know if the ripper had to have physical diformity to have social problems Ted Bundy for example. Mental problems can also lead to social problems. I can see how Dr.T could feel like a social outcast because of his sexuallality it was not excepted back in the 1888 to be gay. All the best, CB   Alan Sharp Inspector Username: Ash Post Number: 451 Registered: 9-2003 Posted on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 5:03 am:        Mikey I think the last sentence of CB's last post sums up what I was going to say here. I'm not sure that your own experience coming to terms with your sexuality in what I assume was 1980's California really equates to what a similar person would have experienced a hundred years earlier in London's East End. I'm about the same age as you, and as I recall it there were times in the eighties during the height of the Boy George/Marilyn/Steve Strange era when it was us straight guys who felt like the out of place ones. I don't know if it was the same in America. In Victorian England gay sex was still a criminal offence for which you could be imprisoned. Being gay was thought of as a sickness and a depravity. Although it would not be my first choice I can certainly concieve of a Ripper who was going to prostitutes to try to "cure" himself of this "sickness" and then taking out his anger on them when they failed to arouse him.   Sarah Long Chief Inspector Username: Sarah Post Number: 692 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 5:31 am:        Monty, I suppose. There are types of people I don't like mainly because they remind me of the type of people who were the reasons I was shy at school, you know the type, girls who are stuck up and love themselves and always managed to get away with short skirts and make up at school, oh yes and all the boys fancied them even though us girls knew they were nasty people. Anyway, I may have practically hated those girls but obviously I wouldn't kill them but I suppose you take something like that and increase the hatred towards them and maybe someone could kill because of it. That would explain why he killed only prostitutes, although I personally don't think Kate was but I think she was sort of a substitute for Liz and so I don't think he was too picky with her. Maybe he was killing Kate but fantasising about killing Liz and what he had wanted to do with her. Just some ideas. Sarah   Monty Chief Inspector Username: Monty Post Number: 756 Registered: 3-2003 Posted on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 11:13 am:        Sarah, CB, CB, Where would a Bi-sexual male fit into this ?....if indeed he would. Its just that I always thought the Doc was bi...now where did I get that from ?? Sarah, Perhaps. May I suggest something else ? Its something you picked up on. Maybe its not a type of woman he was after, though prostitutes are indeed easy targets. Maybe its not because they were prostitutes or had what he thought were easy morals. Maybe it was something as simple as a name...like, oh I dont know, Anne for example. Or they wore scarfs or bonnets. Something that would trigger him into being angry over someone from his past, who mocked him over his social inadequacies. ...or maybe he just liked doing his thang ! Monty   Sarah Long Chief Inspector Username: Sarah Post Number: 699 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 11:22 am:        Monty, Possibly. Maybe they all looked slightly like someone since a couple of the victims did look alike. Bonnets and scarfs were fairly common items so I don't think it would have been something like that though. Sarah   Chris Michetti Unregistered guest Posted on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 2:33 pm:        Jack didn't necessarily hate prostitutes at all. I'm not sure about this but John Wayne Gacy killed 33 young boys, but he seemed to adore young boys, constantly surrounding himself with them and reading porn with young boys in it, etc. He sure didn't seem to hate them, yet he still killed them viciously. Chris Michetti   CB Unregistered guest Posted on Friday, February 20, 2004 - 4:19 pm:        Hi Monty, Thanks for your response. I am not sure how a bisexuall would fit in I suppose a bisexualls would kill women for the same reason a hedrosexuall man would. I dont believe in bisexualality [hope that is a word ] I think that bisexualls are into self gratification at any cost. That would fit Tumbletys profile in my oppinion. Another theory on Dr.T is he killed women who reminded him of his wife who turned out to be a prostitute. If you believe the story that he was maried then I think it is a possibility. All the best, CB   Sarah Long Chief Inspector Username: Sarah Post Number: 709 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 5:18 am:        Chris, Sounds more like he had a sexual fetish about young boys. Some people find it sexually arousing to kill someone after having sex with them or just killing them full stop. CB, Was his wife supposed to have been a prostitute then or did I read that wrong? Sarah   Caroline Anne Morris Chief Inspector Username: Caz Post Number: 756 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 6:59 am:        Hi All, I do think Jack was inadequate in some way, socially or sexually or both, or at least felt inadequate, and would have hated admitting it, even to himself. The subtle difference between how he actually saw himself, and how he wanted to see himself, and wanted others to see him, I think may be crucial. I wouldn’t eliminate suspects in my mind on the basis of such gut feelings, but I can’t help thinking Tumblety, for instance, was probably too fond of himself and his ‘achievements’ to be the inadequate mess in disguise that I imagine Jack to have been. Similarly, the self-styled Dr Roslyn D’Onston comes across as a ‘been there, got the T-shirt’ merchant, not at all like my vision of a hen-pecked, or mother-smothered individual who craves the respect he has seen heaped on his peers but never on him. He could have been a wannabe train driver with no station in life; paper manufacturer whose career was more stationary than stationery; a chemist making up more excuses than prescriptions. But I see someone – anyone – who, for whatever reason, did not feel master in his own home, and who only felt alive and in charge of his own destiny out on the filthy streets of Whitechapel, where he could show the real world and its wife that he meant business and could hack it (literally) after all. Love, Caz   Sarah Long Chief Inspector Username: Sarah Post Number: 712 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 7:11 am:        Caz, This is why I am leaning toward Joe as the killer because I think he felt inadequate in a way. In my mind I believe that Mary hassled him and "hen-pecked" him and he may have also felt less than a man as he couldn't provide enough for himself and Mary to keep her off the streets. This is not exactly solid evidence I grant you but I think it is a one up for Joe. Sarah   CB Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 10:51 am:        Hi Sarah, Thanks for your response. Yes if the story is true then Tumblety's wife was a prostitute and he caught her going into a house of prostitution one day. Take care, CB   Sarah Long Chief Inspector Username: Sarah Post Number: 837 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 7:39 am:        I don't know where else to put this so that's why it's on here. Did anyone else know that a "ripper" was the name for a tunneller of mines? Sarah