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** This is an archived, static copy of the Casebook messages boards dating from 1998 to 2003. These threads cannot be replied to here. If you want to participate in our current forums please go to https://forum.casebook.org **
Archive through 10 January 2003
Casebook Message Boards: Ripper Media: Specific Titles:
Non-Fiction:
JACK THE RIPPER: THE DEFINITIVE HISTORY--Paul Begg:
Archive through 10 January 2003
Author: judith stock
Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 11:31 am |        | OK, guys, every single one of you needs Paul's new book. I haven't been able to put it down; Paul's idea was to put the Ripper crimes into an historical blanket, rather than treat them as a single thread, and he has succeeded. He covers a brief history of London, and how the East End began, and how it became what it was in 1888; he discusses the police officials, "urban renewal" in the Nineteenth Century, sex, prostitution, social mores, customs, events that preceeded the Autumn of Terror....you name it, Paul has it here in JACK THE RIPPER: THE DEFINITIVE HISTORY.
We have long needed a general historical overview of the TIMES of the crimes, and we finally get it. Don't miss this book; it will fill gaps that need to be filled. Along with Rumbelow, Evans, Sugden, will now stand Paul's new book. I cannot believe it took this long for someone to think of it.
Along with the great history lessons, Paul has added a flow of narrative that makes sense of it all. I am just up to the Chapman murder, and cannot put it down, so I'm off to read more......meanwhile, GO ORDER THIS BOOK from Amazon UK!
Cheers to all,
J |
Author: judith stock
Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 11:46 am | | Since I can't figure out how to add this url to my first post, here goes....us this for a direct link to Amazon UK so you can order Paul's book.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/058250631X/casebojacktherip
Cheers,
J |
Author: Christopher-Michael DiGrazia
Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 11:58 am | | Judy -
Excellent post. I was fortunate enough to receive a review copy of Paul's new book, and will be reviewing it for the January RN. But I agree - on first sight, it looks like an essential addition to the canon.
So go out and buy it, friends! |
Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 12:52 pm | | Hi, Judy:
Try this all closed up inside the curlicue parentheses: \link { http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/058250631X/casebojacktherip, Amazon UK! }
That way we don't get the wide swathe in the thread -- it seems that the intrepid Mr. Ryder has not learned how to do it properly either--oddly enough!
P.S. Judy, I notice also that your profile lists your long-dead WebTV e-mail address which you probably should replace with your present e-addy. 
Are we taking odds??? Then maybe, 140-1 Sickert, 40-1 D'Onston, Tumblety 33 1/3 - 1 (a queer number ha ha), Queen Victoria, 2-1 ! 
Chris |
Author: Tony Rutherford
Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 02:42 pm | | Judith,
I can only agree with you. It's a fantastic book. I bought it whilst I was half way through P. Cornwell's book and needless to say haven't picked hers up again.
I especially enjoyed the chapter on the frictions between Warren, Monro et al . Most books on the ripper touch on this, but here we have the whole situation put into context; an enlightening experience. The same can be said for the riot in Trafalgar Squre; a familiar event often only mentioned in passing.
Have you read City of Dreadful Delight by Judith Walkowitz? She writes in greater detail about the Pall Mall Gazette's crusades against child prostitution and has a fantastic chapter on how the papers of the day reported on the Whitechapel murders while another chapter does the same for the victims of the Yorkshire ripper. If you have read it I apologize for preaching to the converted.
Tony |
Author: judith stock
Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 02:57 pm | | Nope, Tony, go ahead and preach to the choir! I'm thrilled I have something OTHER than Cornwell's crap to read. And, yes I have read the Walkowitz, and found it a great read. LOTS of information transmitted easily...you can't ask for better than that.
ENJOY, CM...you're gonna love it, and it's nice to have an all-inclusive kind of history, instead of having to run check on 34 books to get the answer.
OK, OK, Chris...I KNEW you would catch that webtv thingie, and I will go fix it right now. By the way, I can't click on to your url in the little curly parentheses..but I CAN click onto mine....?
DO NOT BLAME STEPHEN FOR THE URL....THAT WAS ME!
OK, friends..here's YET ANOTHER thing in life that makes you go "hmmmmm"..... I JUST got back from the BIG bookstore up the road, and oddly enough, Cornwell's rubbish is all filed in the "fiction"" sections....big dump of her books, big stack by the front register, audios, etc...ALL are listed as "fiction".......KEWL!!!
Cheers,
J |
Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 03:51 pm | | Hi, Judy:
You could click on my URL if I had closed up round the curly thingys but I didn't do that so you could see how it is supposed to be done.
No, I know Spry didn't post that URL. I was just saying when he does post a URL he doesn't do it the way his partner in crime, Ms. Ally  says it should be done!
I am not surprised to see bookstores putting Cornwell's book in the fiction section where they are used to putting her. However, note that when she was on CNN, they had a slugline saying "Entertainment" as well. I guess it's all testimony to the fact that the line between Ripper fact and Ripper entertainment is very narrow. Get ready for the movie deal shortly for Cornwell's bestseller. Who will play Walter Richard Sickert? Tom Cruise? Russell Crowe? 
All the best
Chris |
Author: David O'Flaherty
Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 04:21 pm | | Hi, Chris
Wouldn't Pat Cornwell's research rank better as a made for television affair, and not a theatrical release?
Heard around town: Kelsey Grammer and Ann Jillian will star in the NBC version, "Paint Me Dead." In a bid for an Emmy, Ann Jillian will play all of the female roles. The CBS version, "Camden Murders Sing This Song, Do-Dah, Do-Dah," will star Richard Crenna as Walter Sickert. Finally, ABC will broadcast a dramatization of the story of Ms. Cornwell's research, with Valerie Harper as Ms. Cornwell.
This dispatch just in from Scoopland: David Hasselhof will make a cameo in the ABC production as you, Chris George. James Earl Jones will also lend his voice talents as the mysterious caller from Arizona. MSNBC editor Jerry Nachman will play a Casebook poster who has a little too much time on his hands one afternoon.
Cheers,
Dave
PS I'm glad to hear Paul Begg's book has turned out well. When I posted a few days ago about there being more worthwhile books than Ms. Cornwell's, this is one of the titles I had in mind. |
Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 04:40 pm | | Very funny, David. I thought Richard Crenna was dead? Maybe not. Surely the Kelsey Grammer movie with Ann Jillian will be a musical? I love his at-the-piano singing on Frazier. "She's such a crazy lady. . ."  |
Author: Brian Schoeneman
Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 06:40 pm | | You know, it's really annoying that the US amazon.com site refuses to sell the book until January 15, but I can go to amazon.co.uk and get it right now.
Is it so hard to just release the thing at the same time on both sides of the pond?
B |
Author: judith stock
Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 10:07 pm | | Brian, that's because the US publisher is coming out with the book in January, while it was published in the UK this month; they can't cross into each others' territory....happens all the time.
Cheers,
J |
Author: Christopher T George
Sunday, 15 December 2002 - 03:51 pm | | Hi, David:
I do see that Kelsey Grammer will star as George Washington opposite Aidan Quinn's "Benedict Arnold" in an upcoming A&E biopic due to air January 13, just after my birthday. By the way, thanks for posting the link to the Caleb Carr review of Cornwell's book on the Cornwell/Sickert board. I thought Carr wrote a great article on the situation in regard to Cornwell's so-called "evidence" and non-evidence. I thought his point is valid that it appears that unfortunately her theory is mostly based on the self-evident fact that Sickert and his artwork don't appeal to her.
All the best
Chris |
Author: David O'Flaherty
Sunday, 15 December 2002 - 04:16 pm | | Hi, Chris
I enjoyed Caleb Carr's review as well, particularly his comparison of the watermarked paper and Hallmark cards. However, another poster and I thought it strange that he would refer to the Royal Conspiracy as an important theory. I'm not sure what he meant by that.
Kelsey Grammer as George Washington? Oh, brother, a double helping of ham and cheese! I loved Frasier, but please. Aidan Quinn, on the other hand, is a fine actor who will make an interesting Benedict Arnold. Ever see his Paul McCartney in 'Two of Us?' He was dead on.
And, so I'm not hopelessly off-topic--I can't wait to read Paul Begg's new book
Cheers,
Dave |
Author: Christopher T George
Sunday, 15 December 2002 - 05:54 pm | | Hi, Dave:
Yes I felt a bit embarrassed when I posted my piffle in this thread which should be devoted to Paul's Begg's important new book, which is not to be missed, afficianados of the Ripper Case! Commercial out of the way, yes, I like Aidan Quinn as an actor, and I believe he should be able to convey the ambivalence and divided loyalties that must have torn Benedict Arnold. I agree that Quinn was great in "Two of Us" though I was less satisfied with the bloke who played Lennon. He was also fine in "Michael Collins" playing opposite Liam Neeson in the title role.
All the best
Chris |
Author: Esther Wilson
Wednesday, 18 December 2002 - 10:10 am | | I just got this book for Christmas!!! Can't wait to start reading it.
Esther |
Author: judith stock
Wednesday, 18 December 2002 - 10:59 am | | Dear CG,
AMBIVALENT? DIVIDED LOYALTIES? NOT!!! Arnold remained true to his citizenship by siding with the British. You remember the old "my country, right or wrong"? He chose his country, full stop. Those who chose to rebel would have been called terrorists, had they lost. History is, indeed, written by the winners.
Not to belabour a point, but a similar thing happened in the Texas region of Mexico in the late 1820's and early '30's. Stephen F Austin was invited to colonise the northern territory of Mexico, decided he would just steal it, declared independence, and began killing Mexicans. That's a very simplistic version of events, but fundamentally true. If Mexico had retained Texas, and kicked Houston, Austin and the rest out on their bums, Austin would be in the same class as Arafat.
J |
Author: Spryder
Wednesday, 18 December 2002 - 11:14 am | | I've got to disagree on Benedict Arnold... he remained true to neither the Brits nor the Americans. He fought gallantly in the Northern battles for the Yanks, particularly at Saratoga, and was for a time, arguably, one of the most revered American heroes of the war. Arnold only sided with the British after the American Congress, to his mind at least, snubbed him on several occasions by passing him over for promotions he felt he deserved (and to an extent he was right). His bruised ego, in combination with a loyalist wife and a healthy pay-off from the Brits, were the only reasons he switched sides and fought with the "mother" country... reasons of patriotism or nationality had not a smidge to do with it.
Of course, it did him little good. In America he was loathed as a traitor, and in Britain he was never accepted as a "true Brit" - just a scheming, mercenary ex-Yank.
Great story, though I'm not sure what it has to do with Paul's Definitive History! :-) |
Author: Christopher T George
Wednesday, 18 December 2002 - 11:15 am | | Hi, Judy:
What you say is true, that Benedict Arnold was "true to his citizenship by siding with the British." But of course he didn't "stay true" as you put it because he was on the opposite side at the beginning of the war, and was actually the great hero of the Patriots for his heroic leadership at the Battle of Saratoga in 1777. So the Americans have a right to feel that he betrayed his principles by going over to the British.
All the best
Chris |
Author: judith stock
Wednesday, 18 December 2002 - 11:18 am | | You're right, Stephen, absolutely nothing....so maybe the right or wrong of the temper tantrums of 1775 should be on another thread altogether!
EVERYONE GO BUY PAUL'S BOOK THROUGH THE LINK ON THE CASEBOOK!
AND EVERYONE BUY THE CASEBOOK CD, TOO!
Cheers,
J |
Author: Spryder
Wednesday, 18 December 2002 - 11:30 am | | PS: Here's a small bit on Benedict's "finest hour" - when he sacked, pillaged and burned New London, CT for the British.
http://usrevolution.casebook.org/battles/battle_summary.html?id=1e05a32ded022c00b2da6e3baf078351 |
Author: Howard Brown
Wednesday, 18 December 2002 - 06:05 pm | | | Dear Steve...thats the first I have heard of your other Casebook...looks pretty decent |
Author: David O'Flaherty
Wednesday, 18 December 2002 - 06:53 pm | | Stephen, Chris, and Judith,
I've got a copy of Hale's U.S. (1835) in my library. Here's a couple of sections relating to Arnold and New London:
"Arnold received, as the reward of his treachery, the sum of 10,000 pounds, and the rank of brigadier-general in the British army. But he was detested by his new associates and his name will forever be synonymous with infamy and baseness. In contrast with his, how bright shines the fame of the three captors of Andre!"
On New London: "Irritated by gallantry which should have caused admiration, a British officer inquired who commanded the fort. 'I did,' said colonel Ledyard, 'but you do now,' and presented him his sword. He seized it, and with savage cruelty plunged it into his bosom. This was the signal for an indiscriminate massacre. Of one hundred and sixty men composing the garrison, all but forty were killed or wounded, and most of them after resistance had ceased."
Although he praises the men who captured adjutant-general Andre (I thought he was a major), Hale writes of the unfortunate Englishman's (who the Colonials executed as a spy) 'great nobleness of mind.'
Cheers,
Dave
I'm looking forward to the release of Paul's book next month. |
Author: James Jeffrey Paul
Tuesday, 31 December 2002 - 11:45 pm | | | I'm reading Mr. Begg's book now and am very pleased with it--not for its capsule overview of the case, but for the wealth of information about Whitechapel and the social, political, and law enforcement aspects of the case. The stage upon which these microscopically-examined events were played out now comes, also, into microscopic focus! |
Author: Esther Wilson
Friday, 03 January 2003 - 10:08 am | | I am really enjoying this book. I haven't gotten to far into it as of yet due to my work schedule but what I have read I find it hard to put down. Bravo Mr. Begg!
Esther |
Author: Trevor Robert Jones
Friday, 03 January 2003 - 05:14 pm | | I agree , Esther, It is a beautiful book ,well researched and , as James say's , includes a wealth of Social, Political and Historic detail.
Trevor. |
Author: James Jeffrey Paul
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 09:54 pm | | | I've finished the book now. It was a tad disjointed and certainly needed a better proofreading job than it got, but its true value lies, as I said, in its placing the Ripper story in its historical, political, and law enforcement context. |
Author: Christopher T George
Tuesday, 07 January 2003 - 08:14 am | | Hi, James:
That sounds like a good recommendation of Paul's book. Thanks for posting.
All the best
Chris |
Author: James Jeffrey Paul
Tuesday, 07 January 2003 - 06:16 pm | | Chris,
Are you Mr. Begg's publicist or publisher, perhaps? Or the "real" Mr. Begg himself? |
Author: David O'Flaherty
Tuesday, 07 January 2003 - 06:20 pm | | James,
Paul Begg posts under his own name here.
Best,
Dave |
Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 09 January 2003 - 07:16 pm | | Hi, all:
People who miss Mr. Paul Begg from these boards may be interested to know that Paul has written an excellent three and a half page review of Patricia Cornwell's Portrait of a Killer: Jack the Ripper--Case Closed for the latest issue of Ripper Notes. The same issue features special contributions on the Cornwell controversy by Tim Mosley, Ivor Edwards, Scott Medine, and Peter Wood.
If you are interested in subscribing to Ripper Notes the price is $30 a year for four quarterly issues or you may wish to get the special Cornwell issue (Vol. 4, No. 3, January 2003) for the cost of $6.00 postpaid. Send your check made out to Christopher-Michael DiGrazia to:
Christopher-Michael DiGrazia, Editor
Ripper Notes
132 Colby Street
Bradford, MA 01835 |
Author: Christopher T George
Friday, 10 January 2003 - 07:57 am | | Hi, all:
Beside Paul Begg's fine review of Patricia Cornwell's book in Ripper Notes I should add that there is an equally good review of the Cornwell book by Jim DiPalma who will be known to people on these boards.
Best regards
Chris George |
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