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** This is an archived, static copy of the Casebook messages boards dating from 1998 to 2003. These threads cannot be replied to here. If you want to participate in our current forums please go to https://forum.casebook.org **
Archive through July 1, 1999
Casebook Message Boards: Ripper Suspects: General Discussion :
The Truth is Somewhere:
Archive through July 1, 1999
Author: Brian
Friday, 25 June 1999 - 06:57 am |        | | There is a lot of paranoia in this room. I can safely say that every posting in here is by genuinely new (different) people. This isn't some schizophrenic game. Just go with the flow. They may know each other...but they are not the same person. Whats the problem with that? |
Author: Peter Birchwood
Friday, 25 June 1999 - 10:27 am | | David:
As far as I know, Spencer Ashbee's papers are in the British Library but don't assume that he was Walter. There doesn't seem to be any proof that he was and Walter himself is still as unknown as Junius.
Peter. |
Author: Peter Birchwood
Friday, 25 June 1999 - 10:28 am | | Joe:
Much too young to retire, just a hard-working and reasonably reliable genealogist. Do you know that in 5 years time you will need a passport to go from Carlisle to Gretna? Customs and immigration booths are already being designed.
Rich:
Didn't Mr. O'Mahoney have one of his fingers bitten off by the bloodhounds as he tried to save Warren from their slathering jaws?
Miles:
You can't know UCLA well if you don't know that the Special Collection (Deans Office) houses the many hundresd of indecent volumes hoarded by the faculty over its long(20 year) and distinguished history. You should also find there WW Grossmiths second volume of autobiography entitled "The Morris Dance."(did you know your pen name can be anagrammed?) Doris Stokes (real name) was actually a Medium, going on Large who never visited Buckinghamshire due to having been told by her familiar that she would be cursed if she approached Aylesbury. Sir John Mandeville (note spelling) was no connection either with her or with Beatrix Potter whose father was suspected of being JtR.
Free yourself of this obsession with Caroline Ann for it is true that to look upon her unmasked is to see - yourself!
Karoline:
I am surprised at you. As you know I only post under my own name and any other messages that you see are but figments of your deranged mind. It's probably too much time spent talking to Radio 4. Did you realise that Miles Askew anagrams as Slime Wakes? Significant, no?
Peter. |
Author: Peter Birchwood
Friday, 25 June 1999 - 10:30 am | | Re: poor old Weedon's biog. I don't understand the trouble people are having in finding it. There's a copy in the BL, one in the Natl. Library of Wales and I believe at least one in the London Library. If anyone's desperate to have a copy contact me and I'll xerox the one in the NLW for a reasonable price.
Peter. |
Author: Caz
Friday, 25 June 1999 - 04:17 pm | | Dear Terry,
I’m sorry I got my little grey memory cells in a bit of a twist over the River Wandle the other night.
On checking the article in question, ‘Mapping out Wandle Valley’ by Hannah Goff, in my local paper, I can now correct my former statement and add to the info as follows:
The Wandle Valley Mapping Project [or ‘Mopping’ project?], launched by David “gwapple-me-gwapenuts” Bellamy earlier this month [Feb 1999], is the product of three years’ hard work.
It is the brainchild of professional artist and river enthusiast, Alan Suttie, who says: “One of the most amazing things about the River Wandle is that so many people do not even know it’s there. [how true :-)]
It was the hardest working river in the world in the late 1700s and the early 1800s, and the home of the first public railway in the world – The Surrey Iron Railway. [cop that one, Rich and Miles :-)] There were mills along the river marked in the Domesday Book. Now that is old”, he said.
There should also be a website this summer showing the map, which will link to a Living History page.
Carry on Mopping fellow sleuths, and have a squeaky Kleenex weekend.
Love,
Caz (The one and only, and some of you are a million miles askew!) |
Author: Sara
Friday, 25 June 1999 - 10:14 pm | | Hello, all:
I've been wondering the veracity of Mr. Sleuth since his first weather reference. Why on Earth the LA plug - and since I'm here in LaLaLand, what's he talking about? - we've had the chilliest and most prolonged "June Gloom" in years.
Besides, anyone who thinks it's so terrific to be be in L.A. must be unhinged.
All the best,
Sara |
Author: Villon
Saturday, 26 June 1999 - 03:15 pm | | The quest for Miles' identity could be so very much more revealing than anyone has yet suspected.
Aren't certain characteristics of his postings disturbingly familiar? The desperately insistent background detail? The occasional 'deliberate mistake'? The slightly rambling style?
Find Miles Sleuth, ladies and gentlemen, and I suggest we may also have unmasked the true perpetrator of the Maybrick Diary!
Mike |
Author: Ashling
Saturday, 26 June 1999 - 07:45 pm | | Hi y’all. Indulge me for a moment please, while I ask a “serious” question.
PETER: How many different Weedon book titles exist? You refer to a biography. Thrice this month Caz mentions “My suspect, Weedon Grossmith, claims in his 1913 autobiography ...” Perhaps I missed some posts, but I recall only one Grossman book title - Diary of a Nobody. On the Amazon.com site Diary of a Nobody is billed as fiction written by GEORGE Grossmith --- listing Jeremy Lewis as Illustrator and Weedon Grossmith as “Contributor.” One review states “This book is a collection of narrations published in Punch in the years 1888-89.”
I accessed Diary of a Nobody online on 2 literary sites - twenty-three chapters relating the daily routine of the Nobody - Mr. Pooter. Neither site includes the extras detailed by the publisher listed on Amazon books ---
“Unique editorial features that help Everyman Paperback Classics stand out from the crowd include: a leading scholar or literary critic's introduction to the text, a biography of the author, a chronology of her or his life and times, a historical selection of criticism, and a concise plot summary.”
Perhaps the hardback edition is hard to find, but the above paperback published 1919 appears to be easily attained. So Peter, hate to bother you with perhaps trivial details, but making assumptions always gets me into trouble ...
1. Is the bio info in Everyman’s Classics pretty much what you were referring to ... and is it a brief summary or more like several chapters?
2. Where the heck is this autobiography stuff? If there’s another book, do you know the title?
Thanks,
Janice |
Author: Karoline
Sunday, 27 June 1999 - 05:25 am | | Hi Janice,
I think Weedon Grossmith's autobiography is completely separate from Diary of a Nobody, which is a piece of light Victorian fiction, written by George AND Weedon Grossmith (brothers).
It shouldn't be too difficult to find Weedon's autobiog if you know where to look. Peter knows of several copies. All the copyright libraries are bound to have the book and probably many antiquarian book dealers have copies.
Is there by any chance anything on the Victorian Web?
Peter says he will photocopy extracts for those interested, so I should grab him while he's in such a generous mood.
love
Karoline |
Author: Peter Birchwood
Sunday, 27 June 1999 - 05:47 am | | Janice:
Hello, Good Morning and Welcome; One of the most famous comic novels in english is "Diary of a Nobody" which properly should be credited as by George and Weedon Grossmith who were brothers. Weedon who was a trained artist before becoming (in turn) actor, novelist, playright and theatrical manager was illustrator for the original edition. Listing Weedon as "contributor" may be underestimating his role in the collaboration. This was the only collaboration between the brothers. Both wrote reminiscenses. Weedons, published 6 years before his death in 1919 was: "From Studio to Stage" and it's this that Caz is referring to. Although there's a copy in the National Library of Wales I haven't bothered yet to look it up although if these asides from Caz about there being important information in the book linking him to JtR and mentioning one of the "victims" as being a blackmailer continue, I may have to. Needless to say, I consider it more likely that Jerome K. Jerome who also published in 1888 was JtR than that Weedon, who was fully employed in the theatre during the relevant period was.
As far as I know, Diary of a Nobody is still in print and was produced by the BBC some years ago.Weedon's biog is harder to get hold of but as I said earlier if you're willing to pay for the copying, I can probably run off a xerox of the NLW's copy. Incidentally, Weedon's will does not mention his collection of knives and materia medica, doesn't confess to anything and just grumbles about his nephew turning catholic.
Peter. |
Author: Caz
Sunday, 27 June 1999 - 06:23 pm | | Hi All,
Both Walter Weedon and older bruv George wrote autobiographies, copies of which have been glued to my grubby little hands for some while now.
The fictional Diary of a Nobody smacks more of Weedon's imagination than George's (IMHO), and I also have a very useful biography of George which has added considerably to my knowledge of the family. Weedon's uncle also published a book in 1857, when the boys were small, entitled Amputations and Artificial Limbs.
The Diary of a Nobody was a biographical-style fiction written in dated episode form and appeared thus in Punch from 26th May 1888 until the final entry was published on 11th May 1889 (also the date old James Maybrick snuffed it).
In 1892, Arrowsmith published The Diary in book form, with seven additional chapters and with some alteration to the original datings of the Punch episodes. The Punch entry dates range from 3rd April, 1888 to 21st March 1889, with a few missing days here and there in between (maybe accounted for by acting or other commitments like holidays or sickness). The seven extra chapters include entries dated from 8th April to 11th July 1889.
There is a tantalising 'gap' from September to 17th November 1888, when no episodes appeared in Punch at all. The last dated entry is for 29th August, resuming on 30th October, when the 'author' complains bitterly that his entries for the missing days have been torn out and thrown on the fire, and questions a female staff member about the matter. Coincidences? Probably, but nonetheless interesting IMHO ;-)
Diary of a Nobody is indeed easy to get hold of, but I don't know exactly how many copies of From Studio to Stage are lurking about.
Happy hunting all! And happy xeroxing Peter :-)
But what has all this to do with Mopping up the REAL JtR mystery? I'm confused. I spent this afternoon in the company of a perfectly frightful yellow duster, and everyone is quite right. I did feel like smothering someone with the bloody thing after about twenty mind-numbing minutes. I am obviously a Mopp descendant, and shall be bringing out my own book shortly. The title? "From Mopp to Bucket" or "Sweeping Up Appearances: The Diary of a Skivvy" by Carrie No-one.
Love,
Caz |
Author: Caz
Monday, 28 June 1999 - 02:39 am | | Morning All!
I was racking my poor addled brain last night after Peter mentioned his new suspect, Jerome Klapka Jerome (1859-1927)-- now that's another unfortunate name to conjure with!. I KNEW I was right about him being the author of Three Men in a Boat, but I do like to double check those pesky facts before committing digit to screen.
This is a very mean-spirited attempt to muddy the waters I'm afraid. The 29-year-old Jerome (middle name Klapka, which translates as 'spirit of the clap', which could in itself be slightly significant, I admit) was nowhere near the dry land of Whitechapel during the reign of terror, but his character, Jolly Jack Tar WAS lying drunk in the scuppers with a hosepipe on 'im, in fact the very personal property of one, Seaman Staines.
Yes, Mrs M may well have been swabbing the deck of the boat in question, and even taking her yellow duster to the brassy pieces on board, but we must remember that Captain Pugwash was her lover at the time, and had a perfect opportunity to chug away up the Thames and drop her orf at a suitable East End landing-stage, then to pipe her back on board after each victim got their fatal 'dusting-down', with no-one any the wiser.
Makes sense doesn't it? Even Roger the Cabinboy was not able to help the police in the case of Crown v Mopp because he was helping the boys in blue with other enquiries at the time, indecency charges I gather.
(I knew sailors would come in somewhere ;-))
Love,
Caz |
Author: rich
Monday, 28 June 1999 - 06:56 am | | Caz,
I am glad that we are heading back to the Moppe theory although I have to correct you on a point raised in your posting above. You mentioned Captain Pugwash. Very good Caz, but even I know that Captain Pugwash was en route to Madagasgar on a voyage of discovery. Mrs Moppe was in charge of the cleaners on the clipper 'Coconut', and caused concern, as she cleverly cackled with the ships cockatoo about her dastardly crimes. The cockatoo was called to court as an expert witness, but did not show. 'Cameron' was found floating feathers down in the Thames. Was he another victim of the Ripper. I think so.
This is listed in the papers Crown v Moppe (not Mopp as you mentioned) and was one of the factors used to clear the wicked cleaner of any blame.
Rich |
Author: Caz
Monday, 28 June 1999 - 12:17 pm | | Hi Rich and All,
Rain has stopped my play at Wimbledon, watching my Timmy's legs, so I can indulge my second favourite hobby, mucking out the Moppe stables.
Now listen here, Cameron is deceased, he is no more, he is an ex-cockatoo. He has ceased to be. He has gone to meet his maker. But we could always extract some of his saliva for traces of Mrs M's DNA and see if it matches with mine. If he sank his beak into Moppe-features while gamely struggling for life as the duster tightened round his scrawny neck, the scheming skivvy is sunk.....
There again, if Cameron got flushed down the Thomas Crapper, we're back to square one. There is another fly in the ointment though, which casts doubt on whether Mrs M could have been instrumental in the cruel end of our feathered friend. I do seem to remember my great aunty saying how she really loved a cockatoo, or at least I think that's what she said.....;-)
Love,
Caz |
Author: rich
Tuesday, 29 June 1999 - 09:27 am | | Caz
May I ask you when you will be available for a DNA test. I have swabs from the cockatoo and would like to compare the readings in my home laboratory, using my Spectrum Analyser (Mark III). I was thinking of maybe Saturday, 3pm, Babbacombe Bay.
rich |
Author: Caz
Tuesday, 29 June 1999 - 11:33 am | | Hi rich,
How far is Babbacombe Bay from Pangbourne by the new-fangled railway? 'Cause I have to be back there for a 50th birthday party Saturday night. We are all dressing up as 1950s babes and teddy boys, so as long as I can come in costume you got me. I will be the one in the Olivia Neutron-Bomb outfit.
What bodily fluids will you be requiring, so I can practise my spit (or whatever) on the bumpy journey to....Wessex?
We're gonna kick butt here and nail the bitch, for ornithologists everywhere.
Westward Ho!
Love,
Caz (Hopelessly devoted to the Moppe theory. It wasn't Wee Gee or even Gee Gee--the Grossmith bruvvers' nicknames--it was Squee Gee.) |
Author: rich
Wednesday, 30 June 1999 - 06:50 am | | Caz....ahhh, the beautiful Caz,
I may be able to arrange another meeting at my other(real)address. I love the summery nights in Goring. They make me feel fruity. That way you will be able to get back to your party in no time at all. I will be the one standing naked next to the Ketchley Harrier 125, at the station. As for the bodily fluids...saliva is useless so I may have to take a swab. I shall use the familiar yellow duster we have grown to love, and should make you feel at one with your wicked great granny.
I too am attending a party on Saturday evening at the Beechams factory in Maidenhead where they are launching a new brand of toothpaste. I can hardly wait.
Rich |
Author: Caz
Wednesday, 30 June 1999 - 10:09 am | | Hi Rich,
I'm on a high at the moment 'cause Henny Penny has just come through a nail-biting five-setter against Jim Courier. Go Henman!
(Go Philippoussis!)
(Go Rafter!)
Just to keep those roos happy :-)
What's the new toothpaste gonna be called Rich? Will you Egham on to call it Virginia Water? I don't think Staines would work somehow.
I hope you enjoy Maidenhead. It's a long time since....oh well, never mind.
What were we talking about?
Ah yes. Those summer nights in Goring. Isn't that by the sea in Sussex? I'm afraid you've gone off the rails a wee bit 'cause Pangbourne is in Berkshire, nowhere near. Did you think I meant Pagham? or Paignton?
I should bring two yellow dusters if I were you dear. One for the swab, and one to cover your embarrassment. It can be rather nippy round the South Downs, even in July ;-)
Love,
Caz |
Author: Edana
Thursday, 01 July 1999 - 09:02 am | | Speaking of Goring, I was listening to Michael Sheen's rendition of 'The Picture of Dorian Gray' and Whitechapel was mentioned twice, once as the scene for a teatime soiree' and the second time for a den of iniquity which Dorian had visited. So, there you are...Dorian Gray was the Whitechapel murderer and his portrait was slashed to ribbons like his victims.
Edana |
Author: Caz
Thursday, 01 July 1999 - 10:11 am | | Edana,
You are mistaken. It was a fish, one Dorian Grayling, which was absolutely gutted to discover he was being turned into yet another red herring.
The poor thing was a beautiful roe once, but deteriorated over the years after his sister, the lovely Grayling Emily Grayling, was assaulted by Jack the Kipper's fishwife, Rosa Kipper, with a savage kick from her poisoned slipper (termed hereafter Kipper's Slipper for clarity).
Dorian gradually became so embittered that his good looks were gone for good, and the red herring was established. He spent his last days getting pickled in the Flounder and Firkin, and ended up one night, pissed as a newt, trying to get it up with a rather brassy-looking tin of sardines, whose lid was peeled seductively half-open. Unfortunately, the sharp metal pierced his over-amorous carotid artery, some would say a fitting end to the whole fishy saga.
Love,
Caz |
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