Archive through June 24, 1999

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Archive through June 24, 1999

Casebook Message Boards: Ripper Suspects: General Discussion : The Truth is Somewhere: Archive through June 24, 1999

Author: Peter Birchwood Tuesday, 22 June 1999 - 08:39 am
Seekers for justice: I put the Moppe debate on this board which is possibly the right place for those suspects who haven't yet been accepted by the blinkered Old Guard of researchers. Please feel free to include any others who might come to mind. Rich: May I commend you on your search for justice. I would point out that Mr. Kleen dusters were unknown in Victorian England, not being invented until 1927 by James Brownlowe, Boston Mass. There is however in the Police Museum a yellow felt duster (bloodstained) used by Mrs. Pearcy to mop (sorry!) up the blood after her "mouse-killing" exercise. This shows contemporary usage of such material.
Author: Peter Birchwood Tuesday, 22 June 1999 - 09:42 am
Miles: Didn't it rain in LA today? Still, be that as it may, I have to correct you on a point or two. June and Jane Mopp(e) are different people. Jane, the wife of Walter G. was born in Limerick as a Kelly and married Walter Moppe in Liverpool March 23rd 1870. Wadsworth is the name of a brewer of very reasonable beer: the area you're talking about is Wandsworth, the London Borough known as the residence of the Rev. James G. Saville the "Mad Vicar" of Battersea. Coincidentally (if indeed there is such a thing as coincidence,) the Singer Ruby Murray was descended from a brother of Mary and Jane Kelly and so could claim to be related to JtR's last victim. You may remember her haunting ballad: "Don't let my Granny Bleed" (Capitol Records 1972) ITMA is an acronym for "It's That Man Again" a reference to Hitler. Take no notice of anyone on these boards proposing that the programme was full of crypto-masonic innuendo: only one of the writers was a 32nd-degree Mason. Peter.
Author: Miles Sleuth Wednesday, 23 June 1999 - 06:53 am
Peter Just before I boggel a bagel I looked at the new Mrs Moppe site. Sure is some interesting stuff you English guys are researching? Peter do you know Rich?Cos you both got that colorful way with words? Rich what part of England you from? I will research the James G.Saville guy. Mad Vicar eh? I looked the word Vicar in the dictionary and see he's some English Pastor? I will research him further and maybe start a Mad Vicar page. Anyway back to MrS Mopp/Mop/Moppe I will look into Wandsworth , wasn't he some sort of limey poet? Caz if you are on line, are you good lookin?
Author: Rich Wednesday, 23 June 1999 - 07:02 am
Peter, What a fantastic idea to create a new message board for the discussion of Mrs Moppe. I hope that this becomes as popular as the other page, and will envoke a level of mature input from fellow sleuths. We may have to refer back to the previous posts now and then so as to grab the rest of the investigators. I was a bit perturbed that you did not call the board...Murder > Madman...or Moppe?? Never mind. Why beat about the bush. This in fact is another commonly used phrase taken from the era. A bush back in Victorian London, was a crude reference to a 'small shrub > hedge-like', rather than a reference to the female anatomy as it is today. To 'beat' about that said bush, was linked to the fact that the bodies of the Rippers victims were characteristically dumped next to bushes. As there were no drag marks or blood stains (due to the smothering nature of the victims murder) it can be assumed that the victims were in actual fact 'beat about the bush'. I propose (and I will prove it at the NJ conference) that Mrs Moppe did in actual fact have her own bush, which she took about with her, specifically to thrash the victims to within an inch of their lives with said bush, and then finish them off with Mr Clean Duster. I am also calling for witnesses who may have noticed a small lady with cloth hat carrying around a blood stained Rhododendrum. Conclusive proof, I reckon. I too was wondering about the LA weather. As LA is on the same side of America as NJ I was hoping that Miles would be able to put me up for a couple of weeks. An introduction to a few fellow sleuths should also be arranged, and a paid lecture tour of students union bars around America would suit me fine. Miles, please email me your home address so as arrangements can be finalised. One other fact for you to ponder and comment on. Does it strike anyone else that it is too much of a coincidence that Dr Samuel Strikeshaftt was the GP of both John O'Mahoney AND Adrian Griffiths. I don't think it was a coincidence!! Rich
Author: Peter Birchwood Wednesday, 23 June 1999 - 12:58 pm
Rich: You are confused. Nowadays, a bush IS just a bush. The fundamental things apply that as time goes by words change and in the England of "Walter" (author of My Secret Life) who Miles will know about because his original papers are in the UCLA Special Collection, the word did mean that portion of a womans anatomy.Your geography seems to have slipped somewhat unless you, in common with millions of deluded Californians consider LA to be the New Jerusalem whereas as all reasonable persons know, that is actually further north near Martinez in Contra Costa County. Who's John O'Mahony? Miles: In this land set in a silver sea that we call England (better known as "God's Own Country") we have many poets, some better than others. You are however referring tyo one of your own, Samuel Taylor Wandsworth whose epic poem: "Rhyme of the Antique Barrister" may well have led to the death of MJ Druitt. If you ask Caz nicely she may send you a photo. Peter.
Author: D. Radka Wednesday, 23 June 1999 - 05:43 pm
Peter, I would love to look through Spencer Ashbee's papers, if they do exist. I'd like to try to determine if the events in MY SECRET LIFE are fictional or not. Many smart readers have taken them for real, but the book develops like a Victorian novel, if you look for this quality in it. Do you know of a web site for this? Thanks! David
Author: Caz Wednesday, 23 June 1999 - 08:00 pm
Hi Miles! Wandsworth Town Hall was where I failed my cycling proficiency test at the tender age of seven, accompanied my mum on her first-aid course, and got married for the first time at the far too tender age of 19. Wandsworth is so-called I guess because of its proximity to the River Wandle, the busiest river in the world in the 17th century. My daughter now attends a school which, I discovered only recently, is right at the source of the Wandle, though a few miles distant from Wandsworth. From these parts, one can use a Tube to enter Shepherd's Bush, home to the BBC, if one is so inclined (but be sure to check with Shepherd first ;-)) Ummmm, am I good lookin'? You'd have to ask someone who knows me I guess (preferably a friend!) My own view is that I am a typical melancholy babe, head like a melon, face like a collie ;-) Love, Caz (off to get some beauty sleep)
Author: Joe Thursday, 24 June 1999 - 03:21 am
Hi all, I am so glad I have found you guys. I hope you don't mind my intrusion. I may not contribute indepth to the research that you guys produce, but I find it fascinating nonetheless. Peter: How on earth do you find the time to study the info that you come up with?? Are you a retired gent?? Not that I am complaining. I just look forward to more informative and entertaining correspondence from you. Miles: How is L.A. this wonderful morning?? I didn't think you would have as much literature on this fine subject at your fingertips as you seem have over there. However Miles, contrary to what my good sleuth Peter said, 'God's Country' is in fact a little north of where Peter resides......Scotland. No offence meant Peter, Caz, Rich. Caz: In our eyes we will put you down as a 'Fine English Rose' with your consent. Rich: When you get back from the states I hope you give us a rundown of the conference, and any interesting conversations on JTR. Like the others on this board, I look forward to your refreshing observations on this subject. Take care all, Joe. (not Joseph, as Karoline questioned)
Author: Rich Thursday, 24 June 1999 - 04:32 am
Good day to you all. I am in agreement with you Joe about Scotland. It is a nice place indeed. I was a member of the Scottish Rail Preservation Society for a number of years, and was Honorary President from 1981 - 1993. Wonderful years of my life. I have a fine collection of train timetables if you are of similar elk. I now since relocated back to my original roots. I find the buzz and excitement of Babbacombe Bay very stimulating, and am waiting in anticipation for the eclipse on the 11th of August...sorry...I diverse slightly. Who is John O'Mahoney. I am curious as to your real interest in jtr Peter. Everyone 'worth their salt' (another expression taken from Victorian times, where it was believed that the bodies of Mrs Mopps victims were traded on the black market in return for pillars of salt) will realise that Mr John Brian Desmond O'Mahoney was the 2nd illegitimate son of the Bishop of Durham Scott Mackay. His intervention in the jtr case has until now gone quite un-noticed. His address was 43 Brentley Gardens, Colchester....as was James G. Saville. Amazing coincidence....I don't think! Rich
Author: Miles Sleuth Thursday, 24 June 1999 - 07:04 am
Hi all Again an early rise for me here in Steve McQueen country. Rich train timetables are completely dissimilar from elks? Why are you confusing them so? I too have tried to research John O'Mahoney but here I think you guys are sufferring from mis spellinge !! John OMahony (without the apostrophe and e) was not the 2nd illegitimate son of the Bishop of Durham Scott Mackay but a close relative of Peter OMahony.My two references state 1st cousin and brother respectively, any further information would help? Peter was the same 19th Century Cork Poet who coined the phrase "Peter go and Poke OMahony" which was a reference to firelighting activities and which , due to the incessent passage of time has been shortened to plain "Poke Mahony". In Peter's limited edition classic "Poems on Cork and Popsi" Faber and Faber (1848) he painted an even more desperate image of Ireland in the grip of the Limey English overlords, no offence here guys!! I digress, this board must maintain it's true identity as the "Mrs Mop Board". Rich I have at last , as it happens , found out more information on James G.Saville. Peter makes reference to some UCLA Special Collection, I am perplexed at this and think it deserves consigning to the trashcan; Peter do you actually mean the UCLA Library Collection? Let me know. James G.Saville was a pen name of Doris Stoke-Manderville a Victorian writer on Womans Issues when Womans Issues were the sole right of men. Oh for those days eh? Caz I bet you are a babe!!I digress, sorry!! Doris Stoke-Manderville I believe had a hospital named after her due to her being a generous benefactor of a late 19th Century work house in the Manderville area of Stoke which I believe is near a place called Potters Bar? No real connection with JTR or Mrs Mopp but there you go!! Back to the real issue. Rich I love railways. My grandfather used to tell the following story relating to when he was a travel writer in India in the 1930s. The Bombay to Delhi train run is approximately 1000 or so miles and was, probably still is, an arduous journey at the best of times.Anyway Gramps bought a ticket at a station about 50 miles out from Bombay and waited to join the train . On the train arriving Gramps got on and proceeded to find his alloted carriage, say Carriage C Row 5 Forward window seat for example. On finding his carriage he found a turban clad gentleman apparantly sitting in his seat. Being a well mannered American my grandfather asked , politely: "excuse me sir is this the Bombay to Delhi train"? to which the Indian gentleman replied "indeed it is sir, indeed it is" "and this is Carriage C?" queried my grandfather "indeed it is sir, indeed it is" came the response "Row 5?" "indeed it is sir, indeed it is" " Forward facing?" "indeed it is sir, indeed it is" "Then I believe that you are sitting in my seat?" grandfather stated with a degree of confident authority. "No no no no no sir this is yesterdays train" came the Indians retort. Well I thought it funny? Again I digress, where were we ? Could someone condense into maybe 250 words what the current Mrs Mopp theory entails? I must confess all the correspondance and thinking about Caz all the time has blurred my perspective of reality? Off for a fume filled jog and Coffee before breakfast. keep Sleuthing
Author: Terry Masalata Thursday, 24 June 1999 - 04:58 pm
Hey yawl!!! What some site this is. I have long been a follower of JTR and can not believe the amount of good stuff on this subject.Woweeeeee!! This Mrs Mopp who would have thought, geeeeezzz!! Say RADKA BABY Get a life buoy!! "I would love to look through Spencer Ashbee's papers, if they do exist. I'd like to try to determine if the events in MY SECRET LIFE are fictional or not. Many smart readers have taken them for real, but the book develops like a Victorian novel, if you look for this quality in it. Do you know of a web site for this?" Is that sht or what, get a life buoy!! Say Caz baby "Wandsworth Town Hall was where I failed my cycling proficiency test at the tender age of seven, "Who takes a cycling proficiency test?!" Pure sht. "accompanied my mum on her first-aid course" "can your mum not do a bandage herself?" , and got married for the first time at the far too tender age of 19. "Geeeeezzzz usssss I was married and deevawrced twice before I was 16" Wandsworth is so-called I guess because of its proximity to the River Wandle, the busiest river in the world in the 17th century. "No sht ? then why is it not called Wandlesworth and say when did the Nile, Amazon and the Hudson spring up ?1969?" My daughter now attends a school which, I discovered only recently, is right at the source of the Wandle, though a few miles distant from Wandsworth. "What do they wear snorkels in class , no sht!!" From these parts, one can use a Tube to enter Shepherd's Bush, home to the BBC, if one is so inclined (but be sure to check with Shepherd first ;-)) "Are you some sort of Norther State puurrrrverrrtttt?" Caz get a grip broad!!!!! Miles , you real from LA, you some sort a paansy? Geeeeeezzzzz you guys are weeee iiii rrrr ddd!!
Author: Anon Thursday, 24 June 1999 - 05:14 pm
Oh no, not another one! Or is it one of the established idiots using another different name?
Author: D. Radka Thursday, 24 June 1999 - 06:17 pm
Terry, We used to have a fellow contributing here who signed himself: "Erick Vaughan(Zippity)" --just like that. Please look him up in the archives for some tips on posting here. I think you'll enjoy him. Have fun! Dave
Author: Caz Thursday, 24 June 1999 - 06:23 pm
Hi All, The established idiot always goes by the same name, anon. Sorry, I meant the same name: anon. Hey Miles (is your name a reference to your unusual length, or do you just go on and on? :-)) My best friend Kath lives just round the corner from Stoke-Manderville, but Doris is always up in the clouds when she pays a visit. You can however sometimes catch a glimpse of Mrs Moppe in the sluice room (or should that read sleuth room?), having a crafty ciggie with her ghostly partner in crime, Florence Nightingale. The 'virtuous' lady still uses her ethereal lamp to illuminate the scene of Moppe's crimes, and her reedy voice can often be heard in a chilling rendition of 'A Nightingale Sang in Mitre Square'. She will of course be more fondly remembered for her invention of the pie-chart, which served to remind the Scutari inmates how fortunate they were that the hospital food was divided up into such small portions as to be rendered harmless. That is until the addition of kidney into the steak pie rations a short while after 30th September 1888. Coincidence? Offally unlikely. Hi Terry Masalata, I did make it my policy not to date men named after seafood, but as I adore spreading Greek fish roes all over my pittas I may make the odd exception. Or am I just too weeee iiii rrrr ddd!! for you? ;-) Love, Caz
Author: Anon Friday, 25 June 1999 - 12:02 am
Well, at least she knows she's weird.
Author: Miles Sleuth Friday, 25 June 1999 - 01:21 am
Hi all Nearly midnight here and boy is it humid. Have found some more information on the Tunbridge twins plus a connection with Edwina Moppe. Will advise further when I know more. Terry get off our site. Apologies Caz I think he is some damn Confederate hill billy with a spellinge disorder. Rich are you going to see the eclipse next month? Wow that must be cool. Anon please disclose yourself or are you really called Anon ? or are you anun? swelteringly yours as always (especially Caz)
Author: rich Friday, 25 June 1999 - 01:44 am
Hey Terry..calm down, calm down. I like this. I like the sort of ambience that Mrs Moppe has created in the world of jtr. However, what I don't like is people getting on top of their clothes horses and getting a little bit gallus. No need for it in here Anon (or is it Joe), so if you don't have anything constructive to say don't bother. This actually reminds me of the time when I was on a one-way train to Nowhere, Ohio. It was a beautiful journey. We had sandwiches, crisps, and banana fritters, and the 6am start from Somewhere, Alabama wasn't too early. In my hand I had a book. Not any old book...but a special book. It was a glove puppet book and it had a story to tell. I leant over and this it what it said. "It was Mrs Moppe, It was Mrs Moppe, She is the killer And she likes to mop. Her sister was a lady of the night, Who stole a sixpence to go to the hangings, But that was the last thing she did, Because she was slain by Mr Clean." I sat back in my chair, amazed at what I had been told. So sit back I didn't. I got off of my MWA and decided to do something about it and caught a steamer to Britain. I arrived here in 1946, just in time to see the first public demonstration of the ball point pen. This made me think. If there can be such a thing as a ball point pen...surely there can also be a chance for space travel...but I diverse. I used this pen (it cost 46 bob) to start writing my theories, and my investigations went on. On the route to justice I uncovered a bitter story of murder, mayhem and perverted destruction, but I found that 'The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe' was distracting me from my task. Locate Mrs Moppe. Over the past couple of weeks, myself and my fellow sleuths have started to successfully uncover the real story of Mrs Moppe. It has been proved here that she was the killer, and she did use a Mr Clean yellow duster to smother her victims. How can anyone argue with conclusive proof. You disgust me Anon, and I hope you are happy, that you have turned me into a paranoid wreck. Thanks Rich
Author: Karoline Friday, 25 June 1999 - 01:57 am
Hi all - Miles - you old devil, I don't think you're really from LA at all. All this 'phew it's so HOT here with all the car fumes and movie stars'!! I think you are one of our regulars performing a prolonged leg-pull,and almost waiting for someone to spot you. So I'll try. You're probably British considering your posting time. Now, if I remember rightly Caz used to post as 'Miles Askew', so I wonder... Come on Caz, have we blown your cover? Have you been telling yourself how pretty you are just to put us off the scent?:-) Whoever you are, Miles, I love the stuff about Doris Stoke Manderville. Almost good enough to be P. Birchwood at his best. You're not P. Birchwood are you? Oh dear am I joining the paranoid few who worry all the time about who is who? love to all Karoline
Author: Ashling Friday, 25 June 1999 - 04:43 am
CLUE #1: Miles Sleuth is Joe ... I only said it was a clue -- No claims made that it would solve anything. Take care, Janice
Author: Joe Friday, 25 June 1999 - 04:52 am
Rich, As I have told Karoline, I wont be entering these pages as anything other than myself. That may be boring but hey...call me old fashioned. I don't have the urge to hide behind another front. Miles, I too am beginning to be suspicious about your whereabouts. Why do you keep having to remind us about the time,heat and humidity of L.A.?? but don't stop the entertaining chit-chat. Karoline: I don't believe Miles is really Caz, but then again I am only a newcomer to these pages. I have to admit it is riveting stuff though. Keep up the good work folks. Take care, Joe