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Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 602
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 9:19 am: | 
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Dear Nats...
Sorry that Mohammed Moammar Bell and I left out that aspect, the "who" did it part.
We ain't telling anyone,lady.
Seriously,Nats, that might be a good followup to this article. Two people explaining which suspect or type of person that would be their favorite as the author of the GSG.
I lean towards RDS...or someone as you have pointed out...a person with a bit of handwriting discipline...either in school or schul.
That remark about how it looked [ the good schoolboy handwriting ] is one of the three or four "aspects' of the GSG that stood out for me once I started reading and thinking and re-thinking and all that,Nats...
HowBrown
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Malta Joe
Detective Sergeant
Username: Malta
Post Number: 109
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 1:10 pm: |
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Thanks for reading the article Natalie, and I appreciated your comments. I wasn't planning on discussing the article until Part Two comes out, but I'll break my rule this one time because I think you're a nice person! The United Service Club (USC) was a club for military personnel. Stead could not have become a member of this club nor could he have personally attained any status with the place. Stead wasn't a military man. He was a radical editor with strong Irish sympathies.
For a man like Tumblety to have achieved a position in this private club, he would have needed two military men (a proposer and a seconder) to have deposited an application form on his behalf to the Club-Secretary's office. The proposer + seconder would have had to have been established USC members. An USC committee would then vote to either grant a 3-month guest status position for the applicant or deny him. I feel that Tumblety achieved guest status in the USC during the summer of 1888. I believe his proposer + seconder were military men who shared Tumblety's Irish feelings, and these two military men were supported from the outside (and probably paid quite well) by Stead. This is being looked into as a possible private political plot designed to get a man inside Hughes-Hallett's circle. Stead + HH were bitter rivals, and Stead had tried in the past to oust HH from his Parliament seat by doing hatchet jobs on him in the Pall Mall Gazette. Stead had his own man in mind for that Parliament seat. (Arthur Chandros.)
Stead would not have wanted his named mentioned at all in connection with Tumblety and his proposer + seconder. That would have completely blown their cover. Everyone would have immediately recognized Tumblety's application to a military club as being a political ploy if Stead's name was linked to it in any way. So Natalie, I agree with everything you said concerning Stead's obvious unpopularity. And yes you are correct in saying if Stead's name was revealed, Tumblety could never have attained any kind of status in the USC. My feelings are that Stead's name was never exposed and that Tumblety did achieve guest status via the influence of his proposer + seconder. (The proposer + seconder being Stead's henchmen.) I also think that Burton + HH sniffed this whole thing out by late July 1888.
Now to clarify some erroneous assumptions that were previously made on this thread concerning the article. Any critique which presumes HH "could have frequented many clubs" is mis-leading. HH was a member of only two clubs: The USC and the Tory Party's Carlton Club. Both of these clubs were situated practically next door to each other in Pall Mall. All the clubs at this level of society were very exclusive and difficult to obtain admittance into. They were politically different from one another, and a member of Parliament like HH would be very cognizant of his territory and very selective of where he is to be seen. In other words, people in this realm of society wouldn't be frequenting other clubs as if they were bar-hopping in downtown Tulsa. It just wasn't that easy, plus their was a snobbish dedication to your own club that was in force. HH was solely talking about the USC when he revealed the info about his club man being a phony military medical man "who had studied anatomy as a fad."
HH's comment, "My man left his club as I was then doing" is to be correctly interpreted as meaning that HH is talking about a specific man who is involved with the same private club that HH is associated with. HH will further exemplify this point in Infiltator Part Two by hunting in disguise while looking for his fellow club man on the streets of Whitechapel soon following the George Yard murder. HH is hunting incognito because he doesn't want to be recognized by this specific club man of his. What HH is unable to pinpoint is the charlatan's exact role in the field of medicine. The only thing HH is "theorizing" about concerns his fellow club man's current status. (Thus the quotes: "He may be an active Army doctor; a retired Army Surgeon; or one who is still learning medicine" etc.) HH is surmising about the quack's possible occupation in the field of medicine. The identity of this charlatan is already known to HH. HH was an enemy of the Irish Brigade, and he didn't speak to the British Press about this club man of his. HH felt that he had to come to America before he could freely talk about the man.
Back to you, Natalie! I agree with your point that it would be tough for Tumblety to win a vote to become a member of the USC. Stewart Evans showed me the 1888 USC Rule book that stated 50 club men had to approve such a honor. But achieving club membership for Tumblety wasn't the goal here. Guest status was the goal, and for this the criteria was less difficult. Plus I think the consideration for the approval of an applicant's guest status would primarily focus on the good standing of his proposer.
If I can offer a word of advice Natalie, it would be not to let Stead con you. This Pharasaic sleazeball wouldn't think twice about getting in cahoots with the Tumbletys of the world if it resulted in having one of his enemies publicly defamed in his fish-wrap Gazette. Burton saw right through Stead's phony act. I see a lot of similarities between Stead + Tumblety when it comes to pretentious behavior. To slightly correct you, Stead's justifiable jail sentence wasn't due to libel, but instead due to his lewd abduction of a 13 year old. As usual, Stead hired henchmen to do his dirty work.
Well. I'm going to be keeping mute until Part Two comes out. So I'll just try to be a silent puching bag for the next few months on this topic! What I can say is that Sept 30, 1888 was probably the most unique day in London history. Thanks to Jeff, we can add Burton's blasting of Stead in the USC to all the activity that took place on this Sunday. Bye, Natalie! On a different note, I'm still awaiting that KC paperwork that you know of.
Joe |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2070
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 3:27 pm: |
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Ho Joe,
Many thanks for such a detailed reply!I cant wait until part two arrives!
Rgarding Stead,I do see what you and others are getting at with regards to his behaviour.
To me though he still comes across as an opportunist who,in his powerful position as editor/proslelytiser is prepared to use any means to get his ends[a story].
I dont think he is/was criminal in the true sense, although its true he was unscrupulous as to how he got his copy.But its part of our heritage Joe,here in England to be a bit ruthless
like that-
ever heard the expression "Perfidious Albion"-thats us I"m afraid.We dont always mean to be
but if set on something we often are.And at that particular time our empire stretched right round the globe dont forget so he was really only a product of his time with a different take on women ,Ireland ,child abuse etc and simlpy playing them at their own game[IMHO]ie believing that the ends justified the means-his ends were just a bit more radical than theirs!
Oh well -he is a difficult character to understand for those whose history was not steeped in the British Empire etc where the Non- Conformists,the Radicals,Tories,Socialists,Luddites you name it all understand each other in this tiny island
and sort of get by .... sort of....!..what I am saying really is he is a "type" we understand him here and he wasnt any kind of villain in a real sense.
I know ,I know,it probably doesnt make any kind of sense outside here.
Anyway,roll on part two!
Natalie
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Thomas C. Wescott
Inspector
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 390
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 3:44 pm: |
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Natalie,
Any literate person could write in chalk on a brick wall. I agree that the graffiti was quite likely to have been written by the Ripper, but I see no reason to suppose a teacher is any more likely a suspect than anyone else.
Joe,
You're way off base where Stead is concerned. His so-called "abduction" of a 13 year old was in no way "lewd", and he was not the evil man you enjoy portraying. And if Hallet was so convinced his club-mate could have been the Ripper - so convinced he'd talk to foreign press about it - why didn't he bother enquiring into the man a bit? And if he had one person in mind, why would he suggest medical student (young man), army doctor (middle-aged man), or retired army doctor (old man), as equal possibilities for the man's profession? The simple fact - going by this little press blurb - is that it appears HH DIDN'T HAVE any particular man in mind as the Ripper. He was merely illustrating his theory that the Ripper was upper scale.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2072
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 4:09 pm: |
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Hi Tom,
Well my point was actually that he would have had to have been used to the practise of writing on a vertical,unyielding support such as a brick door jamb or a chalk board.I couldnt do it at first on a vertical chalk board-a board and easel is easier because you have some control over the angle of the support easel. At first my writing sloped instead of being on a straight line and the letters themselves looked a bit uneven.It took me a couple of months before I could write "in a neat school[teacher]hand "that didnt have the headteacher criticising my untidy script.
So who ,other than a school teacher would have been that practised to do it Tom?
Natalie |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2073
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 4:19 pm: |
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Anyway,I"m going to give it some more thought Tom.
It could be that people who worked in other areas had the job of writing up data to do with the firm each day,after all there were no computers then and what typewriters existed would probably have been few and far between.Needs some more research this one!
How,
Thats a good idea actually.Maybe we should all submit a suspect plus why we think they could have been the author!
Nats |
Thomas C. Wescott
Inspector
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 391
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 9:25 pm: |
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Natalie,
In a school room, not only teachers, but students, write on chalk boards with chalk. Or in those days, on slates. I don't see it being a difficult task. It's more indicitive of the writer's education than of his profession. Even an Eric Clapton fan could do it (right, Howard? What the police should have checked for - and there's no signs of their having done so - was chalk dust on or under the apron piece. If some had been ON the apron, that would prove beyond doubt the message was written after the apron piece was dropped, and thus written by Jack the Ripper. If there was dust under the apron, that would at least indicate the writing was rather fresh and likely put there after the rains.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 604
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 11:03 pm: |
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Tom...
More than likely,the way in which Halse determined that it was fresh was the powder on the message. Try writing on slate,brick [ as I did ] and see what I mean. Its more than likely that any residual powder would have been absorbed if either on top or underneath the apron,given the amount of time it was there prior to the initial contact by Long.
When I did it [ and this of course was just MY test,in a windfree environment with a few women behind me going "loco gringo cabron !" ], very little dust fell from the stick. I used a soft cylindrical stick,not that hard enamel type.
Nats has a good point in that if one of the "knowns" amongst the suspects did write the GSG, a teacher or barrister or windbag like Donston would be at the head of the classroom,as far as I am concerned. Discipline of writing..in legible lines....and SMALL. Three key reasons to support Ms. Severn's idea.
Clapton? That was an attempt to appeal to Caz. Probably the only way I could,really....
Jeff Beck fan.
HowBrown
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Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2075
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 5:07 am: |
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My, this has got me going!
Tom,
There are three properties the graffiti has which shouldnt be dismissed too quickly.How is absolutely right when he talks about the swift deterioration of chalk in most environments but in particular in a dusty, semi outdoor situation.Usually it "yellows" quickly or if not because it absorbs the dirt around it so quickly it develops a greyish tinge.
These three need to be taken together, not seen separately, because to separate them diminishes
the full significance of the graffiti.
so
a]The chalk was definitely "fresh" according to PC Halse who was one of the few people who saw it.That freshness lasts a matter of "hours" not days in my experience.
b]The support was vertical and inflexible unlike a slate which can be supported by one hand and bent to a comfortable writing angle.
c]The writer of the graffiti needed to have had a fair bit of practice in writing on just such a surface eg a fixed chalk board or similar.
In my view then the writing was written within the previous eight hours or so at most,by a person adept at writing in chalk on a support placed at a 90% angle .
Given the fact that most of the inhabitents of the immediate catchment area didnt even speak English,let alone write it, it was most likely written by someone who was to some extent an "outsider" of the "immediate" area but very knowledgeable about the ethnic composition of that area.
Natalie
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John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 383
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 8:46 am: |
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So, Natalie,
What kind of person in the East End would have carried chalk on their person?
You rightly say Sunday School teachers, chalk-board cafes and market stall workers,..pubs....
Shove-Halfpenny players, tailors and dressmakers, billiards players.
Mischievous young school kids who had picked up on their parents dislike of the Jewish neighbours..
And who would be able to write at a height of five foot comfortably? Why, a mischievous school child, that's who...Or Sunday school child.
I do not believe the Ripper wrote the graffitti. |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2078
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 9:58 am: |
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Hi John,
It"s a real pity we can never get to see the graffiti.
You may be right but I wonder if someone could
try an experiment with some chalk and a brick wall?
If a child of say eleven could be persuaded to write a short inscription in chalk letters ,three quarter inches high, in a neat round hand ,then I will accept what you say.
If it was a child then a Jewish child could have written it to express anger that Jews were being blamed for everything!
Natalie
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Maria Giordano
Inspector
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 430
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 11:46 am: |
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I don't know about England,Nats, but finding an American child of 11 who can write anything in a neat round hand is quite a challenge.
Mags
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Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 606
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 12:55 pm: |
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Dear Mr. Ruffels:
You said, "And who would be able to write at a height of five foot comfortably? Why, a mischievous school child, that's who...Or Sunday school child."
This is true sir.
Respectful of your opinion that the GSG was not by the Ripper, I'm more inclined to think that it is less likely that a child [ age 6 to 15,say..] or schoolboy in that age group,wrote the GSG,considering the absence of even the remotest hint of a youth in the age bracket above behind that piece of chalk.
I've asked a variety of people,of different ethnicities,professions,income levels,etc., and the one thing they agreed on,considering the syntax involved,was that a child, or a young schoolboy or girl, had nothing to do with writing that 12 word message. They disagreed on the ethnicity, the concept that the Ripper wrote it or that someone else did, whether it was written by a drunk or a sober anti-Semite....you name it,they argued over them all. From family members,to co-workers,to a Priest who speaks 5 languages to my oldest daughter...the one thing they agreed on was that a child not being behind it. The syntax was considered too "adult" too "political" too "dorky" too "weird" too "old" as well as "irrelevant".
I noticed that you and Chris Phillips took a trip to Goulston Street recently.
I was wondering what your opinion is regarding the location of the message.
Do you go along with the idea it was next to the door on that jamb,which is right next to the stairwell ?
HowBrown
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Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2083
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 1:47 pm: |
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Mags,
I was thinking just the same as I was writing it!
Nats |
Malta Joe
Detective Sergeant
Username: Malta
Post Number: 110
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 6:24 pm: |
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Hello Natalie,
That was a fine posting you had for me yesterday, and I don't doubt your point at all.
You're right by implying that there is a cultural difference to be considered when we view a convicted criminal. In Stead's case, he was properly jailed for being guilty of the charges of abduction and indecent assault upon a 13 year old. While most people today still believe that a jail sentence is appropriate for this type of perverted nonsense, the reality is that another culture of people may look back at Stead's violations and view it with the spirit of appeasement. I'm glad you shared your thoughts on this. Eduardo Zinna's dissertation in the Casebook (Tea, Scandal, and the Ripper's Shadow) goes into the details of Stead's plot. It is worth reading, and the part that accurately depicts Stead privately sharing in the drugged + unconscious company of his 13 year old victim sheds a lot of light on the character of the man. I don't take any pleasure in reading about or reporting of Stead's antics, nor do I know anyone who does. As Mr. Zinna showed, Stead would proudly wear his imprisonment garments every Nov 10th in commemoration of his imprisonment sentence. Stead was the only one who was taking any enjoyment from his lack of remorse.
I'm going to be especially polite to the English Casebook members this summer! I've never tasted Yorkshire Pudding before. On the web today, I've been reading about it for the first time. It sounds delicious and I want some! Maybe if I'm extra good I'll get some pointers on how to whip up a good plate of it. Didn't we have someone on the Casebook who would tie in her recipes with Ripper language? "Inspector Abber-Lean Cuisine" and stuff like that? Bye! Joe
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Thomas C. Wescott
Inspector
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 394
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 11:43 pm: |
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Joe,
You've got a jones for Stead the way Cornwell had one for Sickert. I don't know what it is, but you're way out of whack. And plenty of people DO enjoy writing about Stead, as evidenced by the many fan sites dedicated to him, and the long-running journal 'NewStead', of which I have a few copies. I'm not sure what agenda you're supporting by distorting the facts regarding Stead, but it's kinda disturbing. You can build your case against Tumblety without making harsh and untrue accusations against Stead. Nobody then or now, other than yourself, thought Stead a perverted pedophile. His imprisonment was strictly political.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1709
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 3:40 am: |
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Guys,
Would just like to point out that if How and I were to go into the Goulston Street writing fully, covering every aspect, then Im afraid Rip issue 59 would have been one long article.
Even boring some might say.
Monty
"You got very nice eyes, DeeDee. Never noticed them before. They real?"
|
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2087
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 4:51 am: |
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Joe,
Sorry but that just doesnt wash about Stead.I accept that his way of obtaining a story was highly questionable but Mr Stead ,its clear , was doing exactly what he claimed-viz showing just how easy it was to do abduct someone with the aid of her mother.And thats all he was doing.
If looked at from the angle I suggested ie
that he believed the ends justified the means his actions,by gaining the publicity they did changed the law regarding child prostitution.
BTW I dont endorse that particular way of obtaining information---he should have known better than to set himself up like that,through a dubious source and with a mother who would also have faced imprisonment had she not pretended it was all above board
Natalie
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Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2088
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 5:01 am: |
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Monty,
I fully accept your point it not being possible to cover every aspect of the writing-and I appreciate that there is no bull in anything either of you say.
I think though, that taking just the case of myself, I know I am reluctant to "give up" the idea that it was written by the killer ,because I cling to the possibility that it may yet shed light on who he was.
Nats |
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 608
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 5:54 am: |
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Nats...
Mississippi Bell is right,my dear. Our joint article omitted things from both sides of the argument,for certain.
I'll bet that Monty could have done a good job arguing for the GSG side,if he wanted to.
He ain't just a pretty face.
HowBrown
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Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1711
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 6:29 am: |
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Nats and How,
Nats,
The articles, as far as Im concerned, were not serious in trying to persuade peoples views. They were there to lay out some, just some of the pros and cons as viewed by two individuals.
You are entitled to you view, as I am mine. However it must always be remembered that there is no conclusive evidence supporting either point and that, Im afraid, is the current situation.
Personal view is that its very rare for Serial Killers to communicate and even rarer that they fail to mention their crimes in that communication but as I mention, I cannot state that is the certain case with this writing, but the historical and psychological odds are against it.
How,
Mississippi ? makes a change from my old nickname....Memphis.
Monty
"You got very nice eyes, DeeDee. Never noticed them before. They real?"
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John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 384
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 9:55 am: |
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Dear How Now,
Thanks for the "Mister" !
Sounds like "Mishter Lusk"....
Interesting how you so widely canvassed opinions on the wording of the Graffitti..(dorky, etc)
You asked :Do I have an opinion about the possible exact location of the graffitti?
I would only be guessing after checking out surviving similar spots nearby (around the side of the Buildings in Wentworth Street).
My guess is that it couldn't have been written on the ceramic brown wall tiles at the rounded entrance.It was on black brick, which only strarted inside the entrance. As the stairwell too was inside the entrance-way, I lean to the
opinion the graffitti was not visible from the street.Well not immediately.It was in a darkeded spot just inside.Though the stairs seemed to be further in...Hmmmm. |
Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1560
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 11:40 am: |
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Hi Joe
I will look forward to sharing some Tumble Tea and cake with you at the upcoming Charlotte conference in September.   
All my best
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
See "Jack--The Musical" by Chris George & Erik Sitbon
The Drama of Jack the Ripper Weekend
Charlotte, NC, September 16-18, 2005
http://www.actorssceneunseen.com/ripper.asp
|
Malta Joe
Detective Sergeant
Username: Malta
Post Number: 111
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 2:45 pm: |
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Hi Chris,
Yes, I'm looking forward to it, too. I know you've worked hard at this, and we'll try our best to make it a success.
Hi Natalie + Tom,
If I were to report on the Titanic's sinking, I'd be very commendable to Stead for his brave behavior during that awful crisis. He could have boarded the life boats that were designated for the VIPs, but he refused. If I were to report on the Boer War, I'd write favorably on Stead's efforts to resolve the conflict peacefully. His nomination for a world peace prize was legitimately earned. But, I'm not going to be giving him commendations for plotting the abduction of a minor. I think you're both smart people, and you don't need me to tell you that this is a topic that hits too-close-to-home for many families. It's conduct that shouldn't be advocated for any political reason.
Tom, congratulations on finding a new suspect. It'll be interesting to hear if his name rings a bell. I'll take your critique of the Infiltrator as meaning you want more evidence. Hey, so do I. I think I know where such evidence may exist, though I'm not too optimistic that it will be accessible to me. I'll try for it anyway.
Natalie, I've heard "The end justifies the means" excuse all my life. I've heard it from those who support the spiking of trees that cripple lumberjacks so a spotted owl can be saved. I've heard it said when abortionists get murdered because the killer feels he is doing God's will. These are wrong ways of doing things. I also feel there are other ways to achieving a goal other than libeling people in a newspaper and abducting a minor. Martin Luther King and Ghandi showed good examples of other ways of doing things. When he had power, Stead was a Pharisaic man who used very bad tactics. There was a lot of truth to Burton's diatribe on him. But as he grew older and became less influential, Stead did clean up his act and this to me was his best days. I have no more to add on this. You both can have the last words if you wish. Good luck in your future Ripper research. Joe |
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 609
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 4:45 pm: |
|
Dear Mistuh Ruffels...
Thank you for your reply and opinion. I appreciate it.
Oh yeah,John...You think I'm a pain in the ass here ? Brudda,you ain't seen nuttin. I've made people simulate certain victims for the sake of examining time involved from beginning to end of the murder [ Tabram's...and don't worry,it was a blunt knife ] at work..set up makeshift erzatz Hanbury Street fences and a backyard with steps made to replicate the Cadosche statement..graffiti writing on the walls of the building...seriously.
And I also do ask people [ who roll their eyes at me..but I don't care...I tell 'em that they are participating in something important...that gets 'em ] and the responses I mentioned are true. My little girl called it "dorky". She also keeps telling me that RDS is "too old" to be the Ripper.
...the brat.
(Message edited by howard on June 20, 2005)
HowBrown
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Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1563
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 5:50 pm: |
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Hi all
I saw the following suspect description in a report of a Merseyside rape case and immediately thought of our intrepid GSG investigators, Monty "The Snout" Bell and Howard "Legs" Brown. I am not sure which it most resembles--
The attacker was white, bald, with prominent ears. He was of a large build and was wearing black trousers, a white shirt and white socks.
All in good fun, lads, honest! 
Chris 
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
See "Jack--The Musical" by Chris George & Erik Sitbon
The Drama of Jack the Ripper Weekend
Charlotte, NC, September 16-18, 2005
http://www.actorssceneunseen.com/ripper.asp
|
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2092
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 6:03 pm: |
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Hi Joe,
Now I can honestly say I agree with your last para to me 100%
Here"s to part two! |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2093
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 6:08 pm: |
|
How....this sounds a whole lot of fun!
Nats
x |
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 610
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 7:31 pm: |
|
C.G.
Monty ain't built for long jail time..and from going on tour with him doing "Jews On First" in Tibet [ that frigging Sharp and his ideas...]..and knowing what he's like in a confined [tent] space.... I just know he'd get his salad tossed in Strangways in, oh,about 3 seconds..so I tried to take the rap for him.
It didn't work. The screws were wise to the phoney Samaritan act and now I fear I'll be doing "Jews on First" all by myself....unless...
Tom Wescott lets me borrow his blow up "Annie Oakley" doll. A lil' lipstick and some heels and maybe I can carry on the stage career I was born fer. Tommy, can your hear me?
The show must go on......!
P.S. Monty, whole or in pieces, gets out in 90 days.
All in jest [ as How knows violence against women isn't funny.....].................
P.S. Joe Chetcuti hit the nail on the head without reservation ! Stead's actions today in abducting the child would have gotten him killed,regardless of the motive. Very succintly stated,Joe and thanks again for that "preview" you sent me last week. I appreciate it very much.
Nats...if you are referring to the idea of an article promoting a suspect or type being behind the GSG, I'd suggest you make a go of it. I'm sure you would do well. If you are referring to the tests I conduct at work to my amiable muchachas who like doing them,although they think Jack El Estripador was a malo hombre then try 'em yourself. Maria Giordano whacked a roast beef once,I believe, doing a test,and she ain't been the same since.
(Message edited by howard on June 20, 2005)
HowBrown
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Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1715
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 3:24 am: |
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HMP Strangeways
22/06/05
Dearest Howie,
Brother,
Though conditions are poor Im keeping my pecker up, and its seems that most of the other chaps are trying to do the same.
I have made a new friend called Slasher McCoy. A wonderful Gentleman who has given me the nickname of 'my sweet Bitch'!?!?. Apparently we are going to play a Parlour game quaintly named 'Knee cap the screw' later. I wonder if it is a take on Whist or 3 card Bragg?
Could you please tell Mother to stop sending me cakes. Yes they are delicious but I keep chipping my teeth on the iron file she leaves in them. I feel she may my going slightly demented. After all the metalwork department have all the files they need. That said, Slasher has mentioned that he would gladly take the next file off my hands as he is currently working on a piece of metallic art he calls 'blowing the gaff'.....whoever or whatever 'the gaff' is.
Anyway, only 88 days to go. The body searches have become bearable, even welcoming, speaking of welcoming. My cellmate has welcomed me with what seems to be the traditional prison greeting (as everyone says it to me) of 'touch my f**kin snout and Ill snap your neck pretty boy'....such a compliment.
Yes, I'll think I like it here.
Regards
Monty
PS Please bring me some soap with my name on. Ive been warned not to lose it, especially in the showers
I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die.
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Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2595
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 5:10 am: |
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This is getting weirder and weirder!!!!
Jenni
ps really it is!!
"be just and fear not"
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Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 620
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 7:16 pm: |
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Count of Monty Cristo:
Listen,Monty..You may encounter a large gentleman who wants a tossed salad. Please refuse. He isn't exactly concerned with eating a balanced diet.
Those weren't files,Monty...Those were ginger snaps to bribe the guards with for fags [ the smokin' kind ] and an extra cuppa tea. Always thinking over here......
....and acting too ! I got Peter Wood to fill in as the straight man in the "JOF" act. Wescott's blow up blew up and I got pinched for assault [ 3 days,released on own recognizance ] right on stage in Katmandu. Unlike Strangways,they didn't wait until the hose down for the cavity search....it wasn't that bad,actually,after the first 30 minutes. Sharp wouldn't bail me out, as he was playing the diplomat. Evidently his concern for his mountains is greater than for my molehill. He has got to go !!!
So you keep on making friends...I've sent extra large bars in case they drop..er..so that they will last a long time...yeah,thats why.
I'm thinking of a new script for a film based on your stay in county cotton...
The Man Who Broke A Thousand Hearts In Jail..
Strange Ways At Strangways
The Monty Bell Story
P.S. I sort of borrowed your car and checking account at the bank, not to mention getting rid of all the food that would have spoiled in the refrigerator...wasn't that a huckleberry ?
See you in 88
Free,white and 51
HowBrown
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Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 624
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 11:15 pm: |
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Dearest Monty:
Yo,man..I had an epiphany..I'm sorry that I boosted your car and took advantage of your predicament. I should have respected you a little more..I hope I can be forgiven...
Thats why,as soon as your car gets repaired for the near-totaling of it [ just the transmission,front end, and a quick tug of the winch to straighten the frame out ], I'll be happy to watch over your stuff until you get back out in the mainstream.
Trust me.
Your fellow thespian
How
HowBrown
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Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1718
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 4:15 am: |
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Dependable Brown,
Wood as the straight man?? That musta been hard for him to have pulled that one off !!
Dont worry bout the car. It was on loan from Basher Begg anyhoos. Just forward your explaination to him on how you did a little business for Notes Norder's gang south of the river and how things got a little carried away. And dont worry, I shant mention your job to Big Boy Edwards and Tiny Tee.
Sharp wouldnt bail you? Erm, hello, Spurs supporting with Irish tendencies living in Scotland. It would have been easier to have grown a money tree. Try Spry, he is loaded....and with monies also !
Please watch over my stuff, especially my life size, manouverable manniquins of Wescott and Radka in various poses. Man, the laughs we had with those eh?
87 days to go.....and dont forget my soap !
Yours (but we said we wouldnt mention THAT again)
Monty
I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die.
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Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 625
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 4:42 pm: |
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Ahem.... Dear Inside Lookin' Out:
Oh man....I think I blew it,buddy..
I thought you had told me that over in the U.K., that you guys don't allow the Welsh to drive. Based on that,I thought it was a mistake when you said that the car [ $ 4,000 in damages ] was Begg's...so I sent in on over to Jennifer Pegg....
Well,thats that....That car is probably parallel parked next to Earhart's plane on the Howland Islands by now...
While accidentally ransacking your apartment,I found your mastercard and paid for a years sub to Ripperologist for you....and me too,of course.
That other magazine on your table, Gals 'N Goats...Belgiums Barnyard Babes was also taken care of.
The CD inside the package I sent you has the music you requested for Karaoke Night there in the slammer. Are you sure you wanted the other dudes to hear you sing..."Back Door Man"..."Bottoms Up"..."I Am Woman"...and "Don't It Make My Brown Eye Blue ?"
You may never leave there now,bubs....
86 days to go...
Outside Lookin' In
HowBrown
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Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2602
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 3:53 pm: |
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Umm,
first they are writing articles together, now this,
"be just and fear not"
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Thomas C. Wescott
Inspector
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 397
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 6:54 pm: |
|
Howard must be in hog heaven. Now he's not the only one machine-gunning threads with off-topic posts. Quite the double event he and Monty make.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 632
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 8:14 pm: |
|
Tom..
Yes we are, P.C., I mean, T.C.. Monty and I were having a little fun. We're real sorry.
Instead of being a kvetch, why don't you put your two cents in something worthwhile...like the Stephenson threads...
Your comments one way or the other would be appreciated.
Besides, if you have something to add to this thread,go ahead. Nobody's stopping you...or anyone else.
On behalf of my incarcerated friend,we apologize.
Happy there,Tom ?
HowBrown
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Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2603
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 3:04 pm: |
|
Tom,
but this thread must be the longest and most unrelated Rip thread ever! why stop now?
Jenni
"be just and fear not"
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2695
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 4:36 pm: |
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Bloody hell! DONT get me going here!!! Catch you on Mgr Jen!!!
S x |
Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1569
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 3:31 pm: |
|
Hi all
I found the following quote by a possible ancestor of Tom Wescott's and thought it worth posting--
"A reasonable amount o’ fleas is good fer a dog – keeps him from broodin’ over bein’ a dog."
~~ Edward Noyes Wescott
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
See "Jack--The Musical" by Chris George & Erik Sitbon
The Drama of Jack the Ripper Weekend
Charlotte, NC, September 16-18, 2005
http://www.actorssceneunseen.com/ripper.asp
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