|
 |
 |
|
|
|
| |
Thread |
Last Poster |
Posts |
Pages |
Last Post |
  | Archive through March 13, 2004 | Thomas C. Wescott | 25 | 1 | 3-13-04 9:01 pm |
| Archive through March 15, 2004 | Natalie Severn | 25 | 1 | 3-15-04 1:51 pm |
| Archive through March 16, 2004 | David O'Flaherty | 25 | 1 | 3-16-04 10:12 am |
| Archive through March 17, 2004 | Natalie Severn | 25 | 1 | 3-17-04 2:56 pm |
| Archive through March 20, 2004 | RipperHistorian | 25 | 1 | 3-20-04 7:40 pm |
| Archive through March 22, 2004 | Thomas C. Wescott | 25 | 1 | 3-22-04 11:06 pm |
| Archive through March 25, 2004 | Sarah Long | 25 | 1 | 3-25-04 9:33 am |
| Archive through May 19, 2004 | Natalie Severn | 25 | 1 | 5-19-04 2:48 am |
| Archive through May 20, 2004 | Donald Souden | 25 | 1 | 5-20-04 12:05 pm |
| Archive through March 31, 2005 | I Know Jack | 50 | 1 | 3-31-05 4:47 pm |
| |
 Closed: New threads not accepted on this page |
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
    
Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 300
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 7:46 pm: | 
|
Dear Phil:
You stated........"The spelling was in fact Juwes"...
Not necessarily so,sir....It may have said one of more than likely 3 things and up to 6.
|
Phil Hill
Inspector
Username: Phil
Post Number: 294
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 12:50 am: |
|
Howard - as far as I was aware, the word was always plural (I am aware of the Jewes alternative) never JUW.
What are the others?
Phil |
Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 301
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 5:26 am: |
|
Dear Phil....
1. Juwes---Halse
2. Jewes--Saint Bob Anderson [ not even there ]
3. Juews--McWilliam
4. Juewes--Dr.Adler
5. Jews---Smith
6. Juives---D'onston...the guy who wrote it
|
Phil Hill
Inspector
Username: Phil
Post Number: 296
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 6:06 am: |
|
Ah - and now you give yourself away, Howard!!
For me D'Onston doesn't even get a look in, though I LOVE Melvyn Harris's books.
But none of them is the (potential) singular "JUW"
, which was my original unserious quibble).
by the way, you still haven't answered my question:
...tell me: How can one distinguish between an illiterate person spelling badly and a "puzzle thrown in"?
Cheers,
Phil
|
Phil Hill
Inspector
Username: Phil
Post Number: 301
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 12:44 pm: |
|
c.shaw - we obviously have different standards of reasoning!!
I Know jack, you wrote: I also find it odd that no-one questions the extra 'e' in the spelling. It may be important!
Why?
Phil
|
Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 302
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 6:35 pm: |
|
Dear Phil....
Saying you love Melvin Harris's books without giving his suspect his day in court is like saying you enjoy swimming but hate to get wet....Some pieces to the Stephenson puzzle are being found,albeit slowly...Maybe by 3005 we will have enough to pin the WM on him...
I see you need some persuadin' there sir...Allow me to try...
Forget Stephenson for a moment. Consider this....
Its 2005 and what apparently are the third and fourth murders in a succession of related murders are found in,say, Philadelphia, on the same night,say April 1st. From the second victim, a piece of her halter top has been cut off and deposited a quarter mile away near a semi-lit ATM machine. Immediately over the halter top,in black magic marker [ Sharpie@ ], is a small message in cursive handwriting that appears to say...." The babe is not the one I hunted,but was one hunted anyway.."
Yeah,its a silly looking graffiti. There's a twist coming up,so be ready...
The local press makes reference to the message and the proximity to the found piece of halter top soon thereafter....
Then a know-it-all takes it upon himself to send in a article to the local paper explaining that the second word,"babe" really said "baba" and that "baba" is a Slavic [ Ukrainian} word meaning "woman" . The writer theorizes that some Ukrainian is behind the message and therefore the murders,also adding that Ukrainians he has known weren't that good at spelling.
Be honest. How fast do you think that the police in our day and age would wait before at least questioning this guy ? Lets pretend that it was discovered that our letter-corrector had a 20 year background in necromancy and had had first hand knowledge of surgery and knives,having been a medic in Operation Desert Storm...
What say ye,Phil ? You're a detective in this scenario...do you go check this guy out?
|
Phil Hill
Inspector
Username: Phil
Post Number: 304
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 1:31 am: |
|
Interesting approach, Howard. But NOT one I intend to follow.
One can surely enjoy an author for his style, wit and depth of research without necessarily agreeing his conclusions. I think Philip Sugden's book probably the best single volume on JtR that has been written, but I think his judgement on his chosen subject a load of c**p.
My objections to D'Onston and others like him is that I perceive not a shred of evidence of an occult connection here, and I am far from convinced by theories involving "toffs" these days.
30 plus years of reading and thinking about the case leads me to the impression that an Eastender (Kosminski, maybe even a Barnett) is a much more likely candidate. Though I make a possible exception for Druitt and Tumblety (from his possible Fenian connection).
On the whole though I have an inkling that we have yet to see the name of the real murderer emerge.
Phil |
Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 304
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 7:53 am: |
|
Phil...
Fair enough....but you didn't answer my question. Would you at least investigate someone like the character I hypodermically created ?
I ain't trying to needle you.
How |
Phil Hill
Inspector
Username: Phil
Post Number: 308
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 8:58 am: |
|
In a murder case the police clearly have to follow all leads.
But as Cornwell's researches may indicate (the one thing IMHO to emerge from them), a man like Sickert - obsessed with the murders and something of a humourist - might well WRITE to the police. I doesn't mean he was the murderer.
That D'Onston Stephenson may have WRITTEN about the murders, even been obsessed by them is entirely possible, but even Melvyn Harris, whom I admire, could not convince me of his guilt, over 2 or 3 books.
Phil |
Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 570
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 03, 2005 - 12:24 am: |
|
If obsession with the murders is the criteria then all of us on these boards are probably JTR! |
D. Radka
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 8:20 pm: |
|
Mr. Palmer wrote:
“Dave--Thanks. It's always a pleasure. Maybe I'm splitting metaphysical hairs, but let's look at what you write (under #21): {Mr. Radka wrote:} "The psychopath mailed the package to Lusk a few days after Lusk was portrayed in the press as having tirelessly extended his marathon reward campaign by having mailed yet another in a long series of letters, dated 10/7/88 to Home Secretary Mr. Henry Matthews, this time requesting Matthews agree to offer both a substantial government reward and a pardon to an accomplice turning in the murderer. Although Matthews had once again rejected Lusk’s proposals immediately (10/12/88-draft), crucially this time he also had agreed to keep them under review, thus placing Lusk into an odd limbo...' {Mr. Palmer wrote:} Well, yes, I acknowledge that Lusk already had his foot in the door; he did get some press back in September. Yet it still seems to me that by stressing that Lusk's "odd limbo" was the impetus for the grisly communication, we (the readers) are stuck with the impression that the psychopath is "sitting" on the Kidney, somehow knowing how the future is going to unfold. No? Why else wouldn't he got off his arse and mail the organ on October 2nd? Something to consider, nothing more.”
>>Thank you for this excellent question, Mr. P. It’s tippy-top, one of your best.
The psychopath mailed the letter and kidney at the point at which, as perceived by his tiny personal identity structure and perspective, he was either just about to lose the reward money or, alternatively, just might have been able to pull his treasure back from the jaws of defeat. This is a somewhat different matter, but not entirely different, from why he took the kidney from Eddowes’ body.
The psychopath built two motivators for Lusk into his double event actions. (1) First was the double event itself, the apotheosis of terror occurring just after completion of the Chapman inquiry and the Leather Apron affair. By killing two women in one night, he felt he would be able to terrify Lusk into pressing his efforts to secure a government reward to the fullest. He is portraying himself as an extremely dangerous lunatic amongst a terrified populace by killing in this manner, a real wolf in the fold. Based on the support the idea of a government-augmented reward had already generated both among the people and in the government, and further moved by the shock and awe of the events of September 30, he felt Lusk would be a good horse to bet on with respect to winning the reward. (2) Second was a letter to Lusk personally, identified by the half kidney. This would be a more personal approach, the terror taken straight to the man himself, but for the same end. This is why the murderer took the kidney from Eddowes.
But then what happens? Motivator (1) worked immediately without any need to resort to (2). Before the double event, Lusk’s stock was rising at a moderate pace. Immediately after, however, it took off meteorically. Lusk became increasingly and sensationally famous, one of the very first media heroes, he gained notoriety along a new and powerful continuum, with access to increasingly high officials, and everyone was talking about and rooting for him. At this point the psychopath would not be in a position to think sending the kidney would stand him in any greater stead with Lusk, perhaps it might even backfire somehow, so he just saved it.
But then what happens? Matthews has an epiphany, he realizes he just can’t listen to outsiders and sensation-seekers, and that a reward would not only be entirely contrary to Home Office policy but would likely backfire as well; in that there probably would appear hordes of people turning in their fathers, brothers and uncles to get the money. So he issues his crucial but often-ignored October 12 letter.
This backs the psychopath right up to the wall. He is now losing control, and when this chap loses control he takes action, witness what he did when his wife told him she felt she’d like to provide for her unfortunate brother. By any reasonable expectation, Lusk at that point could be counted on to more or less tone down his reward campaign, and that would put the psychopath right out of business concerning the mega-bucks.
So, he figures he’s got to tone Lusk right back up. What worked before will work again. Terrify the guy. Hence the mailing of the letter and half-kidney.
It’s always a pleasure dialoguing with you, Mr. P. Feel free to suggest an alternative explanation to these events if you wish.
|
RoseyO'Ryan
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 3:04 am: |
|
Hi All,
For those who have been following the Liz Stride thread these past weeks, and the micro-management of both the victim and her killer in the minutes before the fatal wound was inflicted, we are presented with the possibility that TWO JACKS were loose on the night known as the Double-Event. Could this explain the use of the plural?
The Two Krazy-Juwes theory runs something like this. Sockit and Slashit are enmeshed in a sibling/filial rivalry which threats to spiral out of all control (See, David Radka, et.,al.), and the Graffito is the work of Slashit who ups the ante with this message directed at his rival, Sockit. Slashit is the cool dude with a degree in matters of stealth and public relations. Sockit is more unrefined when it comes to 'grooming' the Ladies of the Night, he also lacks strength in his wrists when weilding the Bowie Knife.
As Ever,
Rosey :-)) |
Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2690
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 10:38 am: |
|
Hi everyone,
i'm sure this will have been asked by someone else somewhere before but I'll ask anyway.
in the victorian times didn't children learn to write using a piece of chalk and slate?
Where was the nearest school to the GGS anyway?
Cheers
sorry if this isnt the right thread to be asking on!
Jenni |
Donald Souden
Chief Inspector
Username: Supe
Post Number: 642
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 11:36 am: |
|
Jenni,
Good question and one for which I have no answer. Still, it does open up broader avenues for inquiry.
Given that the graffito was described by at least one person as being in a schoolboy's hand and that the message may have been rather closer to the ground than would have been expected from an adult, perhaps it was written by a youngster.
Moreover, graffiti (especially of the easily erased sort) can be part of an ongoing argument by two or more people. A writes something, B responds, A comes back at B and . . . well, sounds a lot like these Boards.
And if the infamous graffito had only been a part of an ongoing debate (possibly by youngsters, who would find the public-yet-private aspect exciting) that could explain a few things. For one, it could account for the small size of the writing and also the seeming vagueness of the message if it were a response to, say, "The Jews can be blamed for everything!"
Unfortunately, PC Long was new to that beat so he would have no idea if the graffito were the last in a series and while one would expect the police to ask the regular man on the beat or the building's residents if there had been repeated messages posted there . . . well, they couldn't even get one correct version of the wording and spelling.
Just a thought or two.
Don.
"He was so bad at foreign languages he needed subtitles to watch Marcel Marceau."
|
Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2692
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 11:43 am: |
|
hey Don,
i'm certainly edging towards the idea that it was written by aschoolboy (and before anyone asks no that doesnt mean i think a schoolboy was JtR!). To me that would make the most sense.
But I'm no graffitti expert - so hey!
Jennifer |
Donald Souden
Chief Inspector
Username: Supe
Post Number: 643
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 12:54 pm: |
|
Jenni,
But I'm no graffitti expert - so hey!
So you're not the one who has been spraypainting all Leicestershire with "GO CITY, JENNI P!!!" 
Don.
"He was so bad at foreign languages he needed subtitles to watch Marcel Marceau."
|
Sir Robert Anderson
Inspector
Username: Sirrobert
Post Number: 492
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 8:50 pm: |
|
"Then a know-it-all takes it upon himself to send in a article to the local paper explaining that the second word,"babe" really said "baba" and that "baba" is a Slavic [ Ukrainian} word meaning "woman" . The writer theorizes that some Ukrainian is behind the message and therefore the murders,also adding that Ukrainians he has known weren't that good at spelling. "
You know, How, a thought just occurred to me, and of course it's a wild guess...but one thing prompting RDS to write could have been that he - and he alone - knew the newspapers were incorrectly reporting what he'd written on the wall....
Sir Robert
'Tempus Omnia Revelat'
SirRobertAnderson@gmail.com
|
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 767
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 9:08 pm: |
|
Sort of like that BTK guy...ego a bit ruffled...sees others like the Zodiac getting full props and his "message" being downplayed...or misinterpreted....and he wants to know if there was a misinterpretation...
Yes sir...not a bad idea at all. |
D. M. R.
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, July 30, 2005 - 11:07 pm: |
|
"Moreover, graffiti (especially of the easily erased sort) can be part of an ongoing argument by two or more people. A writes something, B responds, A comes back at B and . . . well, sounds a lot like these Boards."
>>To the higher glory of what illiterate swine are these words pronounced? What empirical evidence exists to establish this saying true? SWINE! SWINE!
|
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 684
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 7:51 pm: |
|
Look what I found on the door jamb this afternoon whilst taking a tour with Rob Clack and Christian Jaud. It was on the correct door and the correct side (though obviously not inside).
All right, which one of you did it?
Hardly 'perfectly rounded schoolboy hand', is it?
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
|
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 894
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 9:48 pm: |
|
A HA !!!
The JULES are the men...
I knew it...I just knew that Rosenthal was behind this....
Never trusted that guy anyway...... |
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 691
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 10:11 pm: |
|
Sorry How. That is simply a badly done 'W' - though I can see how you might view it as an 'L'.
Wish you were here?
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
|
Dan Norder
Chief Inspector
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 874
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2005 - 11:58 pm: |
|
Philip,
No, can't you see, this is an amazing discovery! The original Graffito found at last! You should make a book out of it and find experts to give psych profiles based upon the handwriting (and have people read tea leaves while you are at it). You could be a gazillionaire!
Or at least that seems to be some authors' strategies anyway...
Dan Norder, Editor
Ripper Notes: The International Journal for Ripper Studies
 Profile  Email  Dissertations  Website
|
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 707
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2005 - 4:04 am: |
|
I did actually take out the relevant brick, Dan. Unfortunately it got smashed by a careless baggage handler. However...
The mitochondrial DNA found in the scratches show conclusively that Mary Pearcey married Fred Abberline after her execution and that consequently Annie Crook is actually an alias for George Chapman (AKA James Kelly).
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
|
Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2908
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2005 - 12:44 pm: |
|
Philip,
thats very confusing, you need to expand it into a book
Jenni
"You know I'm not gonna diss you on the Internet
Cause my momma taught me better than that."
|
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 708
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2005 - 1:08 pm: |
|
I have Jenni.
It is called JACK THE RIPPER : PORTRAIT OF THE FINAL DIARY AND 100 YEARS OF THE PSYCHIC BELL TOWER MYSTERY.
Catchy, eh?
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
|
Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2909
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2005 - 2:48 pm: |
|
very catchy.
I wish I had a copy in front of me mate!
Jenni
"You know I'm not gonna diss you on the Internet
Cause my momma taught me better than that."
|
|
Use of these
message boards implies agreement and consent to our Terms of Use.
The views expressed here in no way reflect the views of the owners and
operators of Casebook: Jack the Ripper.
Our old message board content (45,000+ messages) is no longer available online, but a complete archive
is available on the Casebook At Home Edition, for 19.99 (US) plus shipping.
The "At Home" Edition works just like the real web site, but with absolutely no advertisements.
You can browse it anywhere - in the car, on the plane, on your front porch - without ever needing to hook up to
an internet connection. Click here to buy the Casebook At Home Edition.
|
|
|
|
