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Sarah Long
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 8:14 am: |       |
Hi all,
Just was looking for all deaths listed from september 1888 to december 1888 on the FreeBMD website (http://freebmd.rootsweb.com) and I found Mary!! She is listed as Marie Jeanette Davies!! Unfortunately this is all the information it tells us apart from the fact that she was 25 and died in Whitechapel. It is definately her. It is listed under Dec 1888 deaths as they are only listed at the end of March, June, September and December. Also Annie Chapman is listed under the Sept 1888 deaths. |
debra arif
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 11:28 am: | |
Hello everyone,I stumbled across your discussion on census records, marriages etc. for the ripper victims by accident, as genealogy and Jack the ripper are two subjects that interest me very much, I was hooked!
Forgive me if this has been posted before but has anyone ever seen the entry on the 1881 census for the Adelphi Hotel Liverpool, among the guests is a James Maybrick unmarried merchant 42 b Liverpool but interestingly among the staff of the hotel is a Mary Kelly ( age a bit off at 28, but this is only a transcript of the original)who is stated as married and b in Ireland.
Great coincidence if nothing else!! |
Debra Arif
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 5:55 am: | |
Hello again, after i read a message here about no Marie davis/Davies on the 1881 census, I actually found one a while ago aged 16 a Marie Davis u b Ireland and living at a london address with other young women as a seamstress.Head of the household was a lady whose occupation was given as "court dressmaker"I haven't the details to hand at the moment but if anyone is interested i can find this out again.
I also found a Henry Kelly aged 22 b ireland a gunner at an army barracks, and a Kelly family with a father John kelly, couple of sons one named Henry and a daur named Mary ( right age), all b in Ireland BUT living Cumberland 1881.
Debra
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Richard Brian Nunweek
Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 383
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 3:51 pm: | |
Debra,
Intriguing, please do add my facts, the more research made the closer we may get,
Inspiring work .
Regards Richard. |
Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 687
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 6:59 am: | |
Debra
Would definitely be interested in seeing the details of the Marie Davis aged 16 living as a seamstress in London you mentioned above.
Many thanks for your help
Chris
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Sarah Long
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 5:22 am: | |
Debra,
I mentioned earlier that Mary could have been up to possibly 10 years older than we think. Some of the other victims were said to look 10 years younger than they were but we only know their real age because family members clarified it. Mary had no family around her and so we only know what she told people. If she had been 10 years older than we thought then your Mary Kelly in the Adelphi Hotel Liverpool would be the correct age in 1881. Although I'm not saying it was the same one but it is a great coincidence.
Great researching. |
Debra Arif
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 8:53 am: | |
Chris
When I re-checked the entry for Maria Davies I found that she wasn't born in Ireland as I said on my other post, but in Wales ( that will teach me not to post from memory, and probably why I didn't save the details first time around!)
A Maria Davies b in Wales is not so unusual a find, and Mary Kelly's b in Ireland pop up all over the place!
I have tried concentrating on finding henry kellys as Mary Kelly told people she had a brother henry ( a soldier?) and even had a nickname for him, I personally believe that she wouldn't have gone to the trouble of re-inventing
a ficticious family for herself even if she exaggerated or lied about other parts of her life, so she probably did have a brother henry.
I have been checking through christening records of various catholic churches in different areas of Ireland looking for Henry Kellys ( Henricus in some catholic records ) christened there and cross referencing them with the Marys ( and its latin equivalent) christened there to see if there are any with the same parents, might be a complete waste of time, but worth a look.
I've also been noseying around Dorset St and Millers court on the 1881 census, I must say i was shocked by the large numbers of people living in those houses, far more than I ever thought, and the male population far outweighed the female one.
p.s. Does anyone know where Little Paternoster Row was in relation to Dorset St and Millers Court?
anyway here is the Maria Davies entry, just in case you're still interested, sorry for the error in her birthplace!
regards
Debra
Mary CHRISTIE Head W Female 68 Harrow, Middlesex, England Court Dressmaker (Employing 9 Hands)
Alexander CHRISTIE Son U Male 40 Marylebone, Middlesex, England Grocer
Elizabeth CHRISTIE Daur U Female 38 Peckham, Surrey, England Dressmaker
Marons CHRISTIE Grand Daur Female 3 St Pancras, Middlesex, England
Mary LAWRENCE Serv W Female 65 Uffington, Lincoln, England Serv
Maria DAVIS Assistant U Female 18 Cardigan, Wales Dressmaker
Edith WELLS Assistant U Female 21 Dropmoor, Buckingham, England Dressmaker
Elizabeth AYLING Assistant U Female 25 Arundil, Sussex, England Dressmaker
Charlot AYLING Assistant U Female 22 Arundil, Sussex, England Dressmaker
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 6 Somerset St
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341032
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0143 / 91
Page Number 26 |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 1188
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 7:57 pm: | |
Hi Debra
I believe Little Paternoster Row was the last alley on the northern side of Dorset St before you came to Crispin St.
If you put Mary A. Everett b.1848 in Essex into the LDS search engine you should be in there.
Robert |
thomas schachner
Sergeant
Username: Thomas
Post Number: 14
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 8:29 pm: | |
hi debra,
i only found one paternoster row that is located right above st. paul's cathedral. unfortunately it's not called "little".
greetings from germany
thomas.
(Message edited by thomas on November 06, 2003) |
Christian Jaud
Detective Sergeant
Username: Chrisjd
Post Number: 54
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 6:24 am: | |
Hi Debra,
I hope this helps:
Little Paternoster Row is marked red
Miller's Court is marked green
Kelly's room (No.13) is marked blue.
regards
Christian
(Message edited by Chrisjd on November 07, 2003) |
thomas schachner
Sergeant
Username: Thomas
Post Number: 15
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 6:57 am: | |
hi christian,
that's what i call a detailed map! .-))
thx.
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Debra Arif
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 9:42 am: | |
Hi everyone
thanks for the help on Little Paternoster row
and thanks to Christian for the great map, it also has New Court marked on which I was looking for too :o)
Hi Sarah
I did previously read your message about mary Kelly maybe being older than stated and I agree to some point,but what I also was trying to get across was that the entry I found for the Adelphi hotel was only a transcribed version of the census not the original and I know myself how hard it is to determine what is written in the age box on the original sometimes as usually the ages are crossed through with diagonal lines ( I think from totting up the number of males and females on each page to add to the bottom )it is quite possible the age was transcribed wrongly.What was interesting also was that the Mary Kelly working at the Adelphi stated herself as being married, whereas all the other female staff were either older widows or young unmarried women and this was I presume a 'live in job' ( but that also could be a transcript error!)
I have read somewhere else on the boards about the strange coincidences that occur when you are searching out details of people involved ( or think are involved in the case )and I think this is one of them!
Debra
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