Florie Maybrick

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Florie Maybrick

Casebook Message Boards: The Diary of Jack the Ripper: General Discussion: Florie Maybrick

Author: Stephen P. Ryder Friday, 20 November 1998 - 12:23 pm
(previous reader comments) 1. Date: 96-04-07 03:44:04 EDT From: Mark Vega I just finished Michael Harrison's 1972 "A Biography of HRH The Duke of Clarence: Was He Jack the Ripper" where Harrison was the first to claim that J.K. Stephen (Prince Edward's probable one time lover and some time "tutor") was the killer. Harrison's theory has been trounced because of the limbs upon which he tiptoed in order to offer "proof" -- but I'm intrigued by something. E-mail a response if you've had any conversations with anyone regarding the fact that J.K. Stephen's father, "Sir James Fitzjames Stephen, Bt, K.C.S.I., Queen's Court" was the "mad judge" who presided over Mrs. Maybrick's trial and -- as you know -- was later forced to retire from the bench because of the debacle that was then the "trial of the century". Any conversation about these ties? Editor's Note: Very little debate has yet to arise over the Florie Maybrick trial over the Casebook since the inclusion of the Florie Maybrick page was but a few days ago. Personally, I believe the link goes to show you how intricately entwined almost all the suspects are. For example: four separate suspects -- Druitt, the Duke of Clarence, J.K. Stephen, and James Maybrick. Druitt and the Duke of Clarence were practically twins (check the illustrations page), J.K. Stephen was the Duke's "lover and tutor," his father was the "mad judge" presiding over the trial of Florie Maybrick, whose husband was James Maybrick. Also notice that the emergence of these theories follows the same lines -- Druitt (1889), Duke of Clarence (around 1972), J.K. Stephen (1974), James Maybrick (1992). Conclusion? That's for you to decide. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2. Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 11:52:49 GMT From: Victor Camp As to Maybrick, I have looked it up in a book called The Murders of the Black Museum by Gordon Honeycombe. It was published in 1982 and put out as a paperback in 1984. The author got the Yard to allow him entry to their own museum. He wrote a short piece on the Maybricks. He mentions that Mrs Maybrick was repreieved three days before she was due to hang and that the judge who sentenced her was to end up dying in a lunatic asylum. It seems Mrs Maybrick began her jail term in Woking and for the first nine months was in solitary confinement and made to dress in a brown uniform with broad arrows on it. It was ordered that she be put to labour and she had to make five men's shirts per week. As you know she spent 15 years in jail and then was freed in 1904 and she went to France to see her mother before going back to the USA. Honeycombe says she was fed on only bread and gruel for that first 9 months in jail. He adds she died in squalor with her many cats around her in 1941 in Connecticut. He mentions also that she wrote her life story called My Fifteen Lost Years in 1906. Honeycombe mentions that 37 women were hanged for murder from 1843 to 1956 for poisoning and 31 were hanged for murder by other ways. Virtually all domestic killings and very few killed for personal gain. Post Reply to Conference -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3. Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 01:04:01 +0000 From: Cindy Collins In response to Diary being written to clear Florie's name and release her from jail: Florence Maybrick returned the the United States in 1904. If the Diary was written in the 1920's, then she was long out of jail. And most public opinion had long since acquitted her. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4. Date: Tue, 16 Jul 96 14:50:34 -0700 From: Chris Sanders I am positive that I am the reincarnation of Florie Maybrick. T am a psychic in Danville, Illinois. The man who is the reincarnation of James Maybrick is a psychologist in Milwaukee wisconsin. I know what kind of reaction I'm probably going to get to this,but if anyone is interested in knowing more, please feel free to e-mail me at cats@mail.danville.net.
Author: sean Miller Sunday, 22 November 1998 - 06:13 pm
Frightening! Mrs Maybrick is coming back to tell the story for herself!! Help! (anyone signed her/him up for the book rights?) ..back in the real world, we have the suggestion that the proximity of the "Mad" judge, Mr Druitt, Mr J.K.Stephen et. al somehow suggests that the Maybrick trial and the murders are somehow linked. One has to consider that the legal world has always been a fairly "closed shop" (especially here in the UK) - contacts gain access to the bar, not necessarily talent or potential (even in this day and age!). This born in mind, you have Stephen and Druitt - members of the intellectual elite - J.K. Stephen was a private tutor to royals. He was bound to come from a high-profile family, and for a case like the Maybrick trial one would expect a reasonably high-profile judge. To suggest that the connection implies something in respect to Jack is, in my mind, taking logic one step too far. Sean
Author: Peter Birchwood Wednesday, 25 November 1998 - 10:35 am
Right, Sean. It's a long time since I read Michael Harrison's book but I wonder where they story about JKS being the Prince's tutor came from? Is it true or is it just an invention of Harrison/Knight? Was Danville CT where Lucy McGillicuddy (The Lucy Show) lived or was it the abode of Rob Petrie (Dick van Dyke Show)? Either way it must be the haunt of the seriously wacky. Peter.
Author: Leather Apron Saturday, 20 March 1999 - 04:42 am
I was wondering (and forgive me if this is a repeat post as I haven't explored the entire message board) if there is a way to find the book that Florie was supposed to have written about her trial and her time in jail. I haven't had any luck finding information on it.
Author: Matthew Delahunty Saturday, 20 March 1999 - 09:11 am
Hi L.A., Florie Maybrick's book is called "My Fifteen Lost Years" although I've also seen it referred to in library catalogues as "Mrs Maybrick's Own Story". Having been published in 1909 you probably won't be able to buy it anywhere (unless you're lucky enough to know an antique book dealer with a copy) but you might be able to find a copy in your local University library or law library. The book, written by Florie, details her arrest, trial, life in prison and her release but it doesn't really have much to say about the murder case or the events surrounding James' death. That seems left to McDougall's part of the book which seeks to make the case that Florie didn't kill James. Hope this helps. Dela
Author: Stewart P Evans Saturday, 20 March 1999 - 09:40 am
Although my interest and research into the Whitechapel murders stretches back over 35 years, I have also been interested in all classic murders almost as long. My collection of books numbers thousands. Having been interested in the Maybrick case for many years before the hoax 'diary' emerged, my collection of books on the Maybrick case was quite large before 1992. For those interested in the Maybrick case I will list the books on it in my collection - 1. The Maybrick Case, A Treatise, by Alexander William MacDougall, London, Bailliere, Tindall and Cox, 1891. 2. The Maybrick Case, A Statement of the Case As a Whole, by Alexander William MacDougall, London, Bailliere, Tindall, and Cox, 1896. 3. The Necessity For Criminal Appeal, as illustrated by The Maybrick Case, edited by J.H. Levy, London, P.S. King & Son, 1899. 4. Mrs Maybrick's Own Story, My Fifteen Lost Years, by Florence Elizabeth Maybrick, (Autograph Edition), New York and London Funk & Wagnalls Company, 1905. (Blue cloth with gilt titles). 5. Trial Of Mrs Maybrick 1889, edited by William Hodge & Co. Edinburgh, (near contemporary typed manuscript and scrapbook [hardbound] from which the Notable English Trial volume was later compiled). 6. The Trial Of Mrs. Maybrick, by H.B. Irving, Edinburgh & London, William Hodge & Co., 1912. (Notable English Trials). 7. This Friendless Lady, by Nigel Morland, London Frederick Mueller, 1957. 8. Etched In Arsenic, by Trevor L. Christie, London, George G. Harrap & Co., 1969. 9. The Poisoned Life Of Mrs Maybrick, by Bernard Ryan with Sir Michael Havers, QC, MP., London, William Kimber, 1977. 10. Airing In A Closed Carriage, by Joseph Shearing (a novel based on the story), New York, Harper & Brothers, 1943. No. 4 was published in England in a cheaper beige cloth, and does come on the market every so often, but priced at about 60 pounds sterling. All the books are good, but some much better than others. The Christie and Ryan volumes are the best of the modern studies. Hope this is of interest. I had ALL these books before the bogus connection with the 'diary' was made.
Author: Sarah R. Jacobs Monday, 19 July 1999 - 07:53 pm
For more information on Florie Maybrick, please consider the "Personality Disorders" section of the DSM-IV (_The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association, Fourth edition_, APA Press. Available through libraries or from Amazon.com), specifically the entries for Histrionic, Narcissistic, and most especially, Borderline, Personality Disorders. Consider the fact that she might just have killed her husband and that if more that one suspect looked like James Maybrick, who was her type, she might have slept with more than one of them. And offed one to have the other...
Author: dan ryan Wednesday, 08 September 1999 - 02:19 pm
Surely by now people know that the diary is a hoax. Or is it? I am particularly intrigued by the name Mibrack among those in the Charing Cross hotel list. Does anyone have any light to show on this. Is it a bogus name? Was the name known before the diary was written and therefore could have been seen as a perfect fit for future researchers? Has anyone found Maybrick appearing in voters lists in the Liverpool street mentioned in one of the Jack the Ripper letters. Personally I think Maybrick is part of the anti-scouser conspiracy prevalent in England. If jack the Ripper was a scouser, the City stinks. QED
Author: Caz Thursday, 09 September 1999 - 02:25 am
Hi Dan, Considering that the Maybrick Diary only came into the public domain via a couple of scousers, I guess your conspiracy theory comes a little unstuck. You could say it was a bit of an own goal on the part of the Barretts :-) Love, Caz
Author: Peter R.A. Birchwood Thursday, 09 September 1999 - 07:00 am
Dan: The only James Maybrick on voters lists in Liverpool (and remember this was before universal suffrage) is the one at Battlecrease House. And as far as I know, (and Chris George will surely correct me) there is no anti-scouser conspiracy anywhere in the UK except possibly in Everton. Peter.
Author: ChrisGeorge Thursday, 09 September 1999 - 11:36 am
Hi, Peter: As a Liverpool FC supporter I cannot disown the Everton half of the city much as I would like to: we are joined like twins. I see no Scouse or anti-Scouse conspiracy for that matter. As for the Mibrack name on the Charing Cross hotel list, I do not see why this name should be connected to James Maybrick. Why would he use a name so much like his own? Chris George
Author: Sarah R. Jacobs Friday, 03 November 2000 - 06:29 pm
Erm... Mind if I ask you gentlemen something? What's a "scouser"?
Author: Christopher T George Friday, 03 November 2000 - 08:33 pm
Hello Sarah: A Scouser is a native of Liverpool. The term "scouse" derives from a type of stew known as scouse or lobscouse similar to Irish stew composed of potatoes, onions, carrots and (usually) lamb. If it is made without the stew, it is known as "blind scouse." As I have remarked on these boards before, I am from Liverpool and grew up living up the road from where the Maybricks lived. I do not believe Maybrick was Jack the Ripper but there are a number of Liverpool connections to the case even without James Maybrick's candidacy. Best regards Chris George
Author: Christopher T George Friday, 03 November 2000 - 08:35 pm
Hi, Sarah: That should have read, if it is made without the meat, it is known as "blind scouse." :-) Chris
Author: R.J. Palmer Sunday, 05 November 2000 - 05:21 pm
Chris--Hello. Since you grew up in Liverpool, do you have any impression as to whether or not the Maybrick case is well-known among the average 'scouser'? Or is it a relatively obscure piece of local history? (I'm assuming the average person in the East End today would have heard of the Kray twins, or, that, for instance, someone from New Orleans would have heard of Jean Lafitte). These things are difficult to gauge, but I'd be curious if you have any thoughts. Thanks, RJP
Author: Christopher T George Sunday, 05 November 2000 - 08:49 pm
Hi, RJ: Indeed both the original Maybrick case and the fact that James Maybrick has been fingered as the Ripper are well known on Merseyside. I know of mentions of the Maybrick case in Liverpool newspapers and local history books in the 1960's when I was in school in Liverpool. More recently, the revelations in regard to the Diary and watch have been reported in the Liverpool Daily Post and a number of the principals in the drama, Paul Feldman, Anne Graham, Mike Barrett, and Shirley Harrison, have been interviewed on BBC Radio Merseyside. So the local population of Merseyside is "up" on all things Maybrick -- and is probably as confused by it all as the rest of us! Best regards Chris George
Author: R.J. Palmer Monday, 06 November 2000 - 07:29 pm
Chris--many thanks for the response. Now I find it very intriguing that you can remember Maybrick references from 1960s Liverpool. I've been wondering about the likelihood of Anne or Mike knowing about the Maybrick affair long before the cursed diary entered into their lives. Billy Graham told Feldman a story about running around on the grounds of Battlecrease House and picking apples on Riversdale Road as a boy (I think I've got that right), so presumably there is the possibility that Anne would have heard of the Maybrick story while growing up. As for Mike (in his initial statement, long before his confession) he made what I though was a rather suspicious claim: that it took him quite a bit of time to realize that the author of the diary was James Maybrick, and, only after stumbling upon Whittington-Egan's Murder, Mayhem, & Mystery, did he begin to figure things out. Considering the hints dropped in the diary (Poste House, Battlecrease, Whitechapel Liverpool, etc.) it seems a little dubious to me that someone from Liverpool wouldn't have made the connection ealier. Of course, if Barrett was involved in writing the diary, this is neither here nor there; but for those that believe his confession is bogus, it does make one wonder (wonder, if nothing else, about his research abilities)--by the by, this didn't escape the astute Paul Begg; there's a letter of his reprinted in Feldman's Final Chapter wondering why Barrett didn't look up any Maybrick books). Alas, more puzzling speculations in a very puzzling mystery. Thanks, RJP
Author: Christopher T George Monday, 06 November 2000 - 11:14 pm
Hi, RJ: From a yellowed newscutting in a scrapbook of mine, an article from the Liverpool Echo, Thursday, February 29, 1968 tells in a bold-faced headline of "107 Dale Street" once headquarters for the Liverpool Police. In bulleted second weight headings it is noted the "It Knew. . . The Sack Murder. . . Mrs. Maybrick. . . The Cameo Case. . . Burns and Devlin" so ranking Mrs. Maybrick with other famous Liverpool crimes. The text explains, "107 Dale Street knew Mrs. Florence Maybrick, accused of the Fly Paper Murder of her husband." (Incidentally, one summer as a student in 1967, I worked in the same building when it was later used as offices for the Corporation Cleansing Department [Bureau of Sanitation to you Yanks!].) We have heard mention of the Maybrick case being covered in Richard Whittington-Egan's "Murder, Mayhem and Mystery." This is a slim (64 page) pamphlet in the Liverpool Dossier series, Book 1, "Tales of Liverpool" published by the Gallery Press, 1967. Whittington-Egan also published a picture book, "Liverpool: This Is My City" also from Gallery Press, 1972, in which he wrote in part, "Liverpool is everyone's--and no one's--city. There are 600,000 Liverpools--for that is how many sons and daughters she has. . . ." After waxing poetic about burning autumn leaves. . . the raucous mewing of gulls, he says, "Strange events which have left their stamp upon the very air. . . . The poisoning of James Maybrick--eighty-three years ago. Aigburth, where it all happened, has changed beyond recognition, but for me those quiet, sandstone-walled roads are still redolent of arsenic, fly-papers rustle among the copper beech leaves, and I still seem to glimpse the quaint, old-fashioned figure of little Florie Maybrick hurrying down Riversdale Road to Battlecrease House." As I say, I knew about the Maybrick case as a child. My grandmother pointed out the chemist's shop where Mrs. Maybrick allegedly bought the flypapers. This would have been circa 1957 or so. Now, though I lived up the road from Riversdale Road where Battlecrease House is located, Aigburth Hall Road where I lived being an extension of Riversdale Road continuing away from the River Mersey, I did NOT know where the Maybricks lived. I have to seriously question whether Billy Graham did either, since I assume he did not grow up in that middle class area of Liverpool but in a working class area such as Toxteth or Anfield, which is where I think the Barretts lived. He may have known Riversdale Road, which is a road leading down to today's Otterspool Promenade and the riverfront. But did he know in which house the Maybricks lived? There was not then (and probably still is not) any marker to tell you, and you would virtually have to know which house to look for, which I did in the 1970s having read the Trevor Christie book on the Maybrick case, at which time I made a sketch of the house and mentioned the visit to the house in a biographical poem, "Toxteth." (I should mention I did not go in the house, just looked at the outside, under drooping chains of yellow laburnum blossoms at the gateposts.) Hope this helps some more R.J.! All the best Chris
Author: R.J. Palmer Tuesday, 07 November 2000 - 08:19 pm
Chris--Excellent. A wonderful post, and much appreciated. Hang on to that Whittington-Egan pamphlet, it's difficult to find! I searched for it a few weeks back and could only find one copy on the internet, at US$20+postage. So thanks for the detailed description of it on the Maybrick board. Since last night, I did a little browsing in the latest 'Blake' edition of Shirley Harrison's book, and found a couple of interesting items that I had previously missed. On page 8, Harrison writes: "Anne told us much later that, like many people in Liverpool, she was aware of the Maybrick case, but not its details." So evidently, Anne had some elementary knowledge of the Maybrick case before Mike was given the diary. Also, there is a little more detail about how Mike obtained the copy of the RWE pamphlet. 'He had told us that he had made copious notes in the Liverpool library, which Anne latterly transcribed onto the Amstad [computer]. But at this stage Michael had not connected the Diary with James Maybrick. One day, he told me, when he was in a Liverpool bookshop, he found a copy of "Murder, Mayhem, and Mystery in Liverpool" by Richard Whittington Egan..." (p. 9) Barrett noticed the reference to Battlecrease in the pamphlet and (finally) made the connection of James Maybrick with the diary. So, as Mike Barrett would have it, after quite a long spell of researching Jack the Ripper, it was almost by a bit of fortuitous happenstance in a Liverpool bookshop that he stumbled upon James Maybrick. But, since Anne had transcribed the diary onto the computer, has claimed to have read it as early as 1968/69, had some previous knowledge of the Maybrick case (if by name only), I'm left wondering --considering the many hints to Maybrick's identity in the diary (including that 'MAY' is the "first three letters of my surname')--whether Anne herself knew that James Maybrick was the diarist before she gave the diary to Mike? This, of course, assuming that her story is true. Thanks for the help, best wishes, RJP
Author: Sarah R. Jacobs Monday, 13 November 2000 - 12:24 am
Chris-- I hope you don't mind my asking, but aren't there usually ghastly little children's rhymes which surround awful murders, to the effect of, Lizzie borden took an axe. She gave her father forty whacks, And when she saw what she had done, She gave her mother forty-one. ? If you can remember, were there any rhymes that were about a woman's poisoning her husband going about when you were young, rhymes that might have found their way, in slightly-different form, to the Barretts' daughter's classmates, and, hence, back home with an amused and slightly-baffled little new-girl, who had been informed that day that she lived in the "Haunted House" or in the "Cursed House" or some such nonsense, at school? It would be very interesting if the women of the town had not kept such a juicy morsel of gossip about such a nice -- but forever-blighted -- parcel of real estate, alive at least for one hundred years, and what women talk about, children hear, for mothers and children presumably have tea together (I have a bit of an odd picture of England, perhaps, as I fill in the odd hours with pretty much whatever families would, on the whole, be doing in the USA. I picture mothers and children, at least very young children, having a snack and a cup of tea, or at least milk, together in the afternoons, much as mothers and children do here in the US with coffee for Mom and milk & some sort of revolting mass-produced snack (which I'm sure has made it to every newsagent's in the UK by now) for Junior & Co.) At any rate, what I mean to say is that a case of a scale as grand and as sinister as that one cannot have escaped children's lovely, gruesome folk-poetry. Sorry if I'm blathering! Sarah
Author: Peter R.A. Birchwood Monday, 13 November 2000 - 10:39 am
RJP: You raise a good point about Anne's knowledge, vague though it might have been would have made it almost impossible not to have guessed the "author" of the diary as she typed it out. And of course, if you were presented with the Diary, what would you do first, research Jack the Ripper or try to find out who wrote it? Peter.
Author: Christopher T George Monday, 13 November 2000 - 10:24 pm
Hi Sarah: Aren't you astute? ;) Although my copy of it has taken a walk, I am fairly sure there was a contemporary ballad about Florence poisoning her husband that was among a number of facsimiles of period songs and ballads put out by Scouse Press in their Liverpool Packets series of historical reprints, "No. 1 Liverpool Street Ballads, Broadsides and Sea Songs etc." If I can lay my hands on the ditty, I will put it up here. Scouse Press was founded in 1965 and I recall I was given this collection of repro historical ephemera by a relative in Liverpool circa 1970. So again a readily available bit o' Maybrickiana available at a reasonable price--at the time for 85 pence, or around $2.50 at 1970 prices as I recall. Certainly affordable for any would-be Maybrick Diary forger. Scouse Press now sells the same for £4.00 ($6.60) (see http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~suemc/scpr.htm) Now in trying to dig out this ballad in case it was posted somewhere on the Internet, I came across a page from Australia that has some information on Michael Maybrick (composer Stephen Adams). Although some of the information on the composer is from Shirley Harrison's "The Diary of Jack the Ripper" and thus will be familiar, there is other information and sound bites from M. Maybrick's music to sample. Go to "PROFILE ON BRITISH COMPOSER STEPHEN ADAMS: WAS HE THE BROTHER OF JACK THE RIPPER?" by Derek Strahan at http://www.revolve.com.au/polemic/adams_profile.html His link to "Casebook: Jack the Ripper" is out of date, and I have e-mailed him about it. If we did not know it before James Maybrick's grave is on "Find-a-Grave." This may be new because I knew JtR suspect Dr. Francis Tumblety was on there and several of the victims but I did not know Sir Jim was. To have a look, and see the vandalized grave of this hotly contested suspect go to: http://www.findagrave.com/pictures/7883.html Best regards Chris George
Author: Garry Pullen Friday, 15 November 2002 - 02:16 pm
Hi everyone - I'm new to the message board. The other night I watched an old copy I have of the documentary about the Diary (introduced by Michael Winner} and one thing struck me. Has anyone ever remarked on the physical resemblence between Mike Barret and James Maybrick ? Is there a distant relationship there do you think ? Best Regards, GP.
Author: Jason Raymond Stone Friday, 15 November 2002 - 03:09 pm
Yes..I was watching it myself just the other day..It occurs to me that if Mr Barrat did indeed forge the diary that this likeness would account for his choice of the Ripper Candidate..please read my posting on "General Discussions" about my visit to Whitechapel ..and my questions about the Kosminski/Lusk letters and the location of the kidney included with the latter.
Author: Garry Pullen Saturday, 16 November 2002 - 03:15 pm
I was thinking more along the lines of how Mike Barrett claimed he received the diary from Tony Devereaux. What if the diary was a real "skeleton in the closet" and it had been passed to him by a relative on condition that if he made it public he must dissociate it from the "family" ? Thus using the Tony Devereaux story as a cover. It's a long shot I know !..... but put a top hat on him and he does look like JM !

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