Author: Stewart P Evans
Sunday, 12 January 2003 - 05:19 am |        |
A couple of weeks ago Don Rumbelow and I were browsing in a second-hand (used) bookshop when I found the following Music Hall song sheet, inspired by the resignation of Sir Charles Warren. Neither Don nor I was aware of this and I thought it may interest readers of the Casebook to see it.
 |
Author: Stewart P Evans
Sunday, 12 January 2003 - 05:22 am | |
| Unfortunately the system detected the word spelt 'c - o - c - k' as a profanity and would not allow me to post it in the title without the use of the asterisk. |
Author: Christopher T George
Sunday, 12 January 2003 - 08:43 am | |
Most interesting, Stewart. Thanks for sharing this. A shame the system won't let us use the word "c*ck" even when it's not in a non-pornographic context! You might wish to share the music to this song with Mr. Aliffe and it could be sung at the next Ripper convention.
All the best
Chris |
Author: Garry Ross
Sunday, 12 January 2003 - 09:41 am | |
Stewart,
I wonder, is this 'organ' music too? 
take care
Garry |
Author: Vila
Sunday, 12 January 2003 - 10:51 am | |
Hello all,
If someone can scan the sheet music for this and send me a readable copy I can give it the same treatment that I did for "Only A Violet" and write it out as a MIDI file for the Casebook. I would have to be able to see the music notation clearly for this to work, however. And, I add, it wouldn't be something I could dash off in a slack afternoon. I think "...Violet" took me several days to get right as the program I used was rather tricky about putting notes near to where I was clicking rather than actually where I had the cursor placed.
Vila |
Author: chris scott
Sunday, 12 January 2003 - 11:18 am | |
Hi all
A very interesting find!
Ive traced one reference to it as follows:
Baxendale (1930:19) also reports that Warren's resignation from the Metropolitan Police prompted a music hall ditty about this fate: Who Killed C*ck Warren?
"I said the Home Sec
I broke his neck
I killed C*ck Warren.
Then the roughs in the square fell a sighin' and a sobbin'
When they heard of the death of poor C*ck Warren."
This is included in a document at the url below which is a sudy of the Straits Philosophical Society in Singapore in 1893 of which Charles warren was the first President
learnline.ntu.edu.au/studyskills/ nm/nmDocs/JJ-CROSS.pdf
By the way of anyone wants to do any research on the composer Geoffrey Thorn, it may be of use to know that his real name was Charles Thornley
Best regards
Chris Scott |
Author: Stewart P Evans
Sunday, 12 January 2003 - 12:54 pm | |
| Thanks for your responses, in all there are seven verses and, if anyone's interested, I'll transcribe them. Chris has given the first above. |
Author: Garry Ross
Sunday, 12 January 2003 - 01:21 pm | |
Stewart,
Yes, please do.
take care
Garry |
Author: Stewart P Evans
Sunday, 12 January 2003 - 01:39 pm | |
2
Who saw him die?
I said the "Pall Mall,"
For I'm not his pal,
I saw him die.
CHORUS.
And the "Globe" and the "Star" fell a sighing and a sobbing
When they heard of the death of poor C*ck Warren. |
Author: Stewart P Evans
Sunday, 12 January 2003 - 01:56 pm | |
3
Who'll have his blood?
I said Cunningham Grahim,
For I tried to slay him,
I'll have his blood.
CHORUS.
And the unmuzzled dogs fell a sighing and a sobbing,
When they heard of the death of poor C*ck Warren.
4
Who'll have his place?
I said Munro,
I'll boss that show,
I'll have his place.
CHORUS.
And the bobbies and the tarts fell a sighing and a sobbing,
When they heard of the death of poor C*ck Warren.
5
Who'll dig his grave?
'Twas dug said brave Burleigh,
This morning quite early,
I dug his grave.
CHORUS.
And the unpromoted bobbies fell a sighing and a sobbing,
When they heard of the death of poor C*ck Warren.
6
Who'll say the prayers?
I'll do that bit, for
That's all I'm fit for,
And he said his own pray'rs.
CHORUS.
And they say Miss Cass fell a sighing and a sobbing,
When she heard of the death of poor C*ck Warren.
7
Who'll toll the bell?
"Mathews" said all,
For he's next to fall,
He'll toll the bell.
CHORUS.
And then even he fell sighing and a sobbing,
When he thought of the death of poor C*ck Warren.
That's it, I hope you like it. The spelling errors with the names are as per the original.
Best Wishes,
Stewart |
Author: Garry Ross
Sunday, 12 January 2003 - 04:23 pm | |
Stewart,
wow, it's pretty caustic isn't it? Thanks for posting it. Shows the thoughts of the era only too well.
take care
Garry |
Author: chris scott
Sunday, 12 January 2003 - 05:50 pm | |
Stewart
Many thanks for posting that
Anyone know who the following are mentioned in this ditty?
Cunningham Grahim
brave Burleigh
Miss Cass
Any enlightenment gratefully accepted!!
Thanks again
Chris S |
Author: chris scott
Sunday, 12 January 2003 - 05:57 pm | |
On answer to my own last post (!) I found this 1887 reference to a Miss Cass
5th July 1887 153-148 Motion that this House do now adjourn (debate on the subject of the circumstances connected with the Arrest of Miss Cass in Regent Street*).
and a footnote starts:
* - The arrest of Miss Cass was a minor late Victorian cause célèbre which has received no interest recently. As the defeat of the government on the motion for the adjournment on 5th July 1887 was central to future developments in the matter, it may be as well to recount the story in outline here.
Miss Elizabeth Cass was born in Summer 1863 in Grantham, and grew up in Stockton, County Durham. She was employed first as a seamstress and then moved to London to be a dress designer early in 1887. She was employed by Mrs. Mary Ann Bowman and lived on her premises at 19 Southampton Row. On 28th June 1887, she went out in the late evening to do some shopping in the West End at Jay’s Shop at 243-253 Regent Street (the premises on the south-west side of Oxford Circus are now occupied by Benetton and French Connection). Jay’s were a respected retailer of silk and millinery, holding a Royal Warrant. The week had seen Queen Victoria’s Golden Jubilee, celebrations of which were continuing, and London was thronged with people enjoying a month of record sunshine.
Miss Cass found that Jay’s were closed, and the pavement full of people. As she pushed her way through the crowd on Oxford Street to go home, she was suddenly arrested by PC DR 42 Endacott, of Tottenham Court Road Police Station. She was taken to the police station and charged with solicitation and prostitution, and the next morning she appeared at Great Marlborough Street Police Court before Robert Milnes Newton, one of two Stipendiary Magistrates. Newton, who has been described as “somewhat irritable”, was in his late 60s and had been at the court for more than twenty years. PC Endacott gave evidence of the arrest and testified that he had seen her three times before in Regent Street late at night soliciting for prostitution.
The full story (which is lengthy!!) can be found at the site URL below
This is from a site called:
Government Defeats
on the Floor of the House of Commons
and the address is
http://www.election.demon.co.uk/defeatsc19.html
I hope this is of use
Chris Scott |
Author: chris scott
Sunday, 12 January 2003 - 06:01 pm | |
The Cunningham-Graham reference may be to:
"Don Roberto" Bontine Cunningham Graham tried to recover the family fortunes in Argentina, where he was kidnapped by rebel "gauchos", whose cause he promptly espoused. He returned to marry a French beauty whom he took to Texas and Mexico, before "settling down" as an inveterate rebel in British politics, being beaten and imprisoned by the English establishment for supporting Scots socialists and Irish nationalists. He later became a writer, and died in 1936.
For a fuller family history see
http://www.finlaystone.co.uk/c-grahams.htm |
Author: chris scott
Sunday, 12 January 2003 - 06:09 pm | |
The only Burleigh I can find in connection with Charles Warren was a war correspondent named Bennett Burleigh.
He is mentioned in this write up of a book called
The Anglo-Boer war: The Road to Infamy (1899-1900)
This book sets out to defend General Sir Charles Warren's actions during the campaign in Natal to relieve Ladysmith. Warren was at the time roundly criticised for 'his failure' at the bloody battle of Spion Kop. Leading the criticism was Warren's commander Major-General Sir Redvers Buller, and it is Buller who receives most of the criticism in return. Deliberately there are no detailed accounts of the battles; Colenso, Spion Kop et al. The bulk of the text is formed of large chunks taken verbatim from the Royal Commission into the War in South Africa (1903), the 'Spioenkop (sic) Despatches' [Blue Book Cd9685] (importantly, pointing out omissions from the published despatches), Hansard, the works of war correspondents Bennett Burleigh and JB Atkins, and the surgeon Frederick Treves amongst others. Much of this makes interesting reading, though some parts are turgid and repetitive. Much of the case for Warren is simply that put forward by his supporter's after the war. Mr Coetzer’s own analysis does not really go further. There is no questioning of Warren's dubious actions. Relying solely on the contemporary debate for and against Warren is highly dangerous. Each witness to the Commission had their own story to tell and their own motives for telling it. To say the least there was a fair amount of backbiting amongst the generals. The war correspondents had their own axes to grind against Buller. They felt his censorship too rigorous. An interesting book, on an critical aspect of the war that will bring to many first sight of important contemporary sources. However, I think this book will be seen more as a scenic ‘look off’ than a milestone along the route to a more rigorous analysis of this important period in British military history
The source of this write up is
http://www.casus-belli.co.uk/sabwreviews.html |
Author: Garry Ross
Sunday, 12 January 2003 - 06:13 pm | |
Chris,
Yep, that's the fella (Robert Cunninghame Graham)
He was quite forthright in his views and you can read more on him here:-
Graham
take care
Garry |
Author: Stewart P Evans
Sunday, 12 January 2003 - 06:15 pm | |
As Chris has shown above the Miss Cass affair was a famous police related scandal of the day.
Robert Cunninghame Graham was a Radical Member of Parliament who was arrested at the time of the Trafalgar Square protest of Sunday 13th November 1887, where Warren, as Commissioner of Police, had prohibited the meeting and controversially used military tactics against the rioters.
Bennet Burleigh was the Special War Correspondent of the Daily Telegraph who reported on Warren and the disasterous Battle of Spion Kop during the Boer War. |
Author: Garry Ross
Sunday, 12 January 2003 - 06:22 pm | |
I personally have a soft spot for Graham, he was way ahead of his time and didn't mind shaking things up a bit during the time Victoria was making the 'shortbread tin look' fashionable and the army and police were battering women in Ross-shire.
take care,
Garry |
Author: chris scott
Monday, 13 January 2003 - 08:23 am | |
Stewart
Many thanks for confirming those
Can we look forward to you and Don bringing out a version of this ditty? :-))
Pop Idol, eat your heart out!
Regards
chris |
Author: Jim Jenkinson
Monday, 13 January 2003 - 09:12 am | |
Another war correspondent who was present at Spion Kop was Winston Churchill. When Churchill informed Sir 'Reverse' Buller that his men were trapped, Buller ordered his arrest.
Buller had ordered Warren to occupy the top of Spion Kop, since it commanded the Boer's positions. In thick fog, Warren and his assault troops, mostly from the Lancashire Brigade, ascended and dug in at what was percieved to be the summit. Sadly, they were half way up, on a plateau, which exposed them to Boer fire on three sides, and the terrible massacre took place.
A good many football grounds earth mound terracings in the 1900s were named kops in memory of this massacre, the most famous being Anfield.
Just prior to Spion Kop, Warren spent 26 hours supervising the transfer of his personal baggage across the Tugela river, during this period the number of Boers blocking the British advance increased from 600 to 6600.
Buller wrote to his wife after Spion Kop informing her " We were fighting all last week, but Warren is a duffer and lost me a good chance."
I wonder what Warren wrote about the inept Buller.
Jim |
Author: chris scott
Monday, 13 January 2003 - 06:54 pm | |
Hi all
Re Stewart's info that Cunningham Graham was arrested in the Trafalgar Square protest of 1887, I found this which may put it in context:
"A neutral observer watched the assault in the square. He reported the arrest of the Radical-socialist MP for Lanark, Cunningharn Grahame:
'After Mr Grahame's arrest was complete one policeman after another, two certainly, but I think no more, stepped up from behind and struck him on the head from behind with a violence and brutality which were shocking to behold. Even after this, and when some some five or six other police were dragging him into the square, another from behind seized him most needlessly by the hair... and dragged his head back, and in that condition he was forced many yards.'
If you want to read the full article its at
http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/sr224/charlton.htm
Regards
Chris S |
Author: Vila
Tuesday, 14 January 2003 - 09:23 am | |
Well now!
It seems that we will be able to hear for ourselves just what this music hall ditty was supposed to have sounded like. Spryder e-mailed me a scan of the sheet music yesterday, so today I thought I'd take a stab at creating a MIDI file of it. The actual music is fairly short, and simply repeats for each verse. Once I get the first verse done, its only a matter of copy/paste to finish it up.
I hope to have it done in a day or three.
Vila |
Author: Vila
Tuesday, 14 January 2003 - 02:03 pm | |
Data Ammendment:
It took far less time than I thought to whip this song into a first draft. I have just e-mailed Stephen with a copy of the MIDI file. Its the full 7 verse/7 chorus version, so its a bit long. I hope I didn't paste in an 8th verse & chorus by mistake. Any sour notes are caused by the limitations of my music writing program, not because there were bad chords on the sheet music I was sent. I can keep tweaking at this until everyone is satisfied, but to all intents and purposes the song is done.
Vila |
Author: Garry Ross
Tuesday, 14 January 2003 - 03:45 pm | |
Vila,
what program do you use? I tend to flip between Cubase SX and Logic Audio for my midi work and the odd audio session plus various others for everything else. If you need the file tweaking at all then please send it my way.
take care
Garry |
Author: Spryder
Tuesday, 14 January 2003 - 04:29 pm | |
Thanks to Stewart and Vila the music for this song is now available on the Casebook at:
http://www.casebook.org/police_officials/po-waren.cockwarren.html
Enjoy! |
Author: David O'Flaherty
Tuesday, 14 January 2003 - 04:41 pm | |
Thanks for putting that up, I really enjoyed that. A little disappointed I didn't get to hear Vila's singing voice, however
Cheers,
Dave |
Author: Spryder
Tuesday, 14 January 2003 - 05:05 pm | |
| Seems Geoffrey Thorn made a bit of a living out of mocking poor Sir Charles... in 1888 he also released a variation on the song, "The Death of Nelson" (from the comic opera, "Americans") entitled, "'Twas in Trafalgar Square". It was in reaction to Warren's handling of the Bloody Sunday riots in Trafalgar Square in 1887. |
Author: Vila
Tuesday, 14 January 2003 - 06:09 pm | |
Gary,
I use an older program called "Music Time" which lets me compose in sheet music format.
David,
My voice can be heard in wavefile format in the chat room. As for singing, I sound like Sammy Hagar, except that I have no singing talent.
Vila |
Author: Christopher T George
Wednesday, 15 January 2003 - 12:41 pm | |
Hi, Stephen:
Sort of a Thorn in Warren's side, then? 
Chris |
