Author: Keith Skinner
Thursday, 22 August 2002 - 10:05 am |        |
PC 190 H
I was interested in this thread spun out by Monty, as the concept of fleshing out the named Metropolitan Police Officers, involved in the investigation of the Whitechapel Murders, was my starting point in Ripper Research over twenty years ago. (Don Rumbelow was then in his late 70s, still had all his own teeth, and was as pleasant, charming and approachable as he is today!) However, the Met Police were, as Tom Westcott notes, a "rich ground for research" and I was fortunate in being able to trace down Commissioner James Monro's unpublished memoirs which were fascinating in their complete absence of anything to do with JTR!
So - allowing Monty is still interested and has not already dug out the following detail for himself...
I am reasonably confident that PC 190 H can now be identified as Willie Bettles who was born on September 6th 1867 at Stoke Doyle in Northamptonshire. He joined the Met at Commercial Street on November 14th 1887 (Warrant No.72919) and retired as a Station Sergeant from V Division (Wandsworth) on April 6th 1913. Sustained an injury to his right hip on July 27th 1891. Married - 5 feet 9 and one quarter inches tall - brown hair, brown eyes, fresh complexion - he was entitled to a pension of £85.14s.8d per annum.
Best Wishes
Keith Skinner |
Author: Monty
Thursday, 22 August 2002 - 12:13 pm | |
Mr Skinner...Sir,
Interest still strong. What a performance ??...thank you.
I was also told that a Mr Bernard Brown of Kent is researching H division of the 1880's. He thinks that PC 190 H may have been a William Henry Bate who joined the Met on the 30th July 1888 aged 23 as PC 535 A. Warrant No. 73867. Born Landulph, Cornwall and was a labourer before joining the force.
I have the address of Mr Brown if you are interested in exchanging notes.
To be honest I, like you, feel that Bettles is our man.
Thanks for adding to the man.
Monty, who is dead chuffed Mr Skinner has mentioned MY name !
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Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 22 August 2002 - 12:59 pm | |
Hi, Keith and Monty:
Excuse my ignorance, but would the P.C. number change when the police officer was transferred from one division of the Metropolitan Police to another? Also, even if that were the case, wouldn't the warrant number for the man stay the same? Keith and Monty, feedback from one of you or both of you would be most appreciated on this matter of organization and designation of the serving officers of the Met.
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: Martin Fido
Thursday, 22 August 2002 - 02:39 pm | |
Correct, Chris. Warrant number the same throughout service: divisional number changes, with Division letter, on transfer.
All the best,
Martin F |
Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 22 August 2002 - 04:17 pm | |
Thanks for that clarification, Martin.
Chris |
Author: Christopher-Michael DiGrazia
Thursday, 22 August 2002 - 09:44 pm | |
Dear all -
Bernard Brown certainly does feel that 190H is Henry Bate. I asked him to research this during the course of work to prepare the upcoming News From Whitechapel (hint hint). In a November 2001 letter to me he noted "I think I am the only researcher so far to discover this officer's identity. . .". But Bernard, as well as I, am concerned only about accuracy. I have no reason to doubt the estimable Mr Skinner's research, and look forward to further confirmation. Of course, it does disappoint me that my first book on the GVM should have an error in it, but as my hero Homer J Simpson says, well, what are you gonna do?.
Please keep us informed on this, Keith.
CMD |
Author: alex chisholm
Thursday, 22 August 2002 - 10:12 pm | |
Now, Christopher-Michael
As distressing as this predicament may be, I see no justification for misquoting the great Homer J., especially when a simple “Doh!” would suffice.
All the Best
alex |
Author: Keith Skinner
Friday, 23 August 2002 - 06:32 am | |
Dear Monty
Thank you for your response.
I knew that Bernie Brown had isolated PC William Bate from the Registers of H Division – and therefore I looked close and hard at this Officer. Bate, however, did not transfer from A Division to H Division until September 14th 1889 as PC 528 H and later became PC 190 H.
Which is why I think Willie Bettles is our man.
All Good Wishes
Keith |
Author: Christopher-Michael DiGrazia
Friday, 23 August 2002 - 09:13 am | |
Many thanks, Keith. I'll file this clarification away for the second edition of the soon-to-be-bestselling News From Whitechapel (order it now from a bookshop near you). Sterling research, as always.
Best regards,
CMD |
Author: Monty
Monday, 26 August 2002 - 09:06 am | |
Keith,
So all you buggers knew about Mr Brown and you didnt tell me !!!
Swines !!!!!
Thanks for making PC Bates situation a little clearer.
And also a big thanks to the rest of you !
Monty
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Author: Monty
Thursday, 29 August 2002 - 04:57 am | |
Hi chaperoonies,
Ive just been sitting in the bath pondering Billy Bettles.
I have a question which I may have asked before but cannot find the answer on these boards for love nor money,
You see, to me, PC 190 H is quite important. He stood guard over the dwellings while Long scurried off with the apron. So he was alone, with the possibility of another murder close by or even better (or worst I suppose) the murderer close by. He may have seen something or nothing. Either way, I feel it important to include his side of events.
So, why is there no report by him or any mention of this man in any other PCs report apart from Longs brief inclusion?
I still find it odd.
Monty
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Author: Caroline Morris
Thursday, 29 August 2002 - 06:00 am | |
Hi Monty,
Makes a change from 'whataboutawaterbottle' - 'whataboutabillybettles' 
And I bet you've just made Divia's day, with that image!
Love,
Caz |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Thursday, 29 August 2002 - 07:56 am | |
Dear Caz:
I often have images of Monty in the bath... while I'm having mine.
Warm regards,
Divia |
Author: Monty
Monday, 02 September 2002 - 07:55 am | |
Caz, Divia,
Monty
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