Author: Yvonne Green
Monday, 04 June 2001 - 11:08 am |        |
I don't know if this topic has been debated already since I'm new to the list...
I've learned Abberline recieved a walking stick from his police colleauges which has a face carved on the knob. I watched a program about JTR on the Discovery Channel and it was suggested that the face was carved from maybe an unknown description of what the police thought JTR looked like.
Has anyone in here heard about it and what do you think about it? |
Author: Christopher T George
Monday, 04 June 2001 - 11:47 am | |
Hi Yvonne:
The walking stick is illustrated in Donald Rumbelow's book. It is hopefully going to be on display at the UK convention in Bournemouth this September, courtesy of Mr. Rumbelow. Bournemouth is the seaside town where Mr. Abberline lived in retirement after his working years at Scotland Yard and his subsequent service in the employ of the Pinkerton Detective Agency in Monaco. The walking stick was, as you say, given to Abberline by his colleagues on his retirement from Scotland Yard. I personally have not heard any story that the carved face on the knob of the walking stick is supposed to represent a police description of Jack the Ripper. On the contrary, I believe the face is that of a cowled monk or friar, and thus that it is just meant to represent a generic member of a monastic order.
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: Caroline Anne Morris
Monday, 04 June 2001 - 01:19 pm | |
If JtR looked anything like that gruesome carving on the knob, I doubt he would have been able to charm his way into his victims' company - at least not by the time the women knew there was some kind of monster preying on their sort. Either he would have had to creep up on them from behind, or the nights were very dark indeed. 
Just my opinion.
Love,
Caz |
Author: Christopher-Michael DiGrazia
Monday, 04 June 2001 - 04:52 pm | |
In both Stephen Knight's "Final Solution" and the graphic novel "From Hell," the figure on Abblerine's walking stick is supposed to represent the "Mad Monk" of Mitre Square, a gruesome late-mediaeval tradition (c 1530) which may or may not have any truth behind it.
I wonder which Discovery Channel program mentioned the face was carved from an unknown JTR description? Like my well-read colleague CG, I have never heard such a story. Hum.
Christopher-Michael |
Author: Paul Begg
Monday, 04 June 2001 - 05:20 pm | |
Hi All
Far be it from me to take anything away from Don, but in this case the walking stick will be available (hopefully) at the Conference courtesy of Assistant Deputy Commissioner John Grieve and New Scotland Yard. DAC Grieve will be attending the Conference for the unveiling of a commemorative plaque to be erected on Inspector Abberline's old home by Bournemouth Council to honour the detective. |
Author: Christopher T George
Tuesday, 05 June 2001 - 08:55 am | |
Hi, Paul:
Thanks for clarifying who has the ownership of Abberline's walking stick, and that it is in fact the property of the Metropolitan Police and will be appearing at the Bournemouth conference courtesy of Assistant Deputy Commissioner John Grieve and New Scotland Yard. I thought Don Rumbelow owned the walking stick but I have, I believe, confused it with the so-called, alleged "Ripper knife" that Don does own.
All the best
Chris George |
Author: Wolf Vanderlinden
Tuesday, 05 June 2001 - 02:50 pm | |
From some source, which I cannot remember and cannot now seem to find, I had heard that the face on the walking stick did indeed, supposedly, represent that of Jack the Ripper. I remember reading this several years ago and would have bet money that it was in Rumbelow but it is not. If I find the reference I will certainly post it.
Wolf. |
Author: Christopher T George
Tuesday, 05 June 2001 - 03:16 pm | |
Hi, Wolf:
I would be interested indeed to find out if you can come up with a creditable source for this story. It sounds more as if it is another of those Ripper legends, though, doesn't it? I do think though that Christopher-Michael may be right that the cowled figure is meant to represent one of the monks from the priory or other monastic institution that stood in the vicinity of Mitre Square. Although that story too might be legend!!!
All the best
Chris George |
Author: adam wood
Tuesday, 05 June 2001 - 06:21 pm | |
Well, here's a photo of the stick. It's been printed in Ripperologist for the past could of issues.
If anyone knows of a suspect that looks like this, speak now!
And if you want to see the stick close-up in real life, make sure you attend the conference in Bournemouth in October! www.ripperconference.co.uk
Adam
 |
Author: adam wood
Tuesday, 05 June 2001 - 06:21 pm | |
Well, here's a photo of the stick. It's been printed in Ripperologist for the past couple of issues.
If anyone knows of a suspect that looks like this, speak now!
And if you want to see the stick close-up, in real life, make sure you attend the conference in Bournemouth in October! www.ripperconference.co.uk
Adam
 |
Author: Jon
Tuesday, 05 June 2001 - 06:22 pm | |
Oops, sorry Adam, I didn't realize someone was trying to poste it. |
Author: stephen stanley
Tuesday, 05 June 2001 - 06:35 pm | |
I think(heavily emphasised),that a recent(ish) book which treated the murders to modern police methods(but still with Abberline!!) claimed it was meant to be Ostrog!!!...sorry I can't remember more ,but it really was a very bad book....called something like'In the footsteps of the Whitechapel Murders'
Steve S. |
Author: Jon
Tuesday, 05 June 2001 - 06:44 pm | |
Rumbelow has this to say about the stick...
"Soon after completion of this case Abberline resigned, having completed 29 years of service, on 7 February 1892. He was then living in south London at 41 Mayflower Road, Clapham Road. He took the walking stick (now at Bramshill Police College) presented to him by seven detectives who had worked with him on the Whitechapel murders. The handle is of a face covered by a cowl. Perhapse it has some special significance, we don't know. There are rumours that several of these sticks abound and, if so, my own guess would be that it was someone capitalising on 'The Curse Upon Mitre Square' pamphlet and that the features are those of the mad monk brother Martin"
Regards, Jon |
Author: Wolf Vanderlinden
Wednesday, 06 June 2001 - 12:30 pm | |
The book that Steve is talking about is indeed titled In the footsteps of the Whitechapel Murders by John F. Plimmer, (not a bad book if you are looking for police procedure but rather boring if you want information on the Ripper), and it does indeed talk of Abberline's stick but this is not the source that I was looking for.
I also found this from Jack the Ripper One Hundred Years of Mystery by Peter Underwood,
"To my mind the evidence that someone such as Dr Pedachenko committed the murders is quite strong. Certainly Inspector Abberline and his team of seven detectives on the case seem to have thought so at the time, evidenced by the walking stick presented to him at the conclusion of the inquiry with a carved head that may well be based on the suspect's features."
Both Underwood and Plimmer tell us that the stick hangs in a display case at Bramshall Police Staff College in Hampshire with this inscription:
THE WHITECHAPEL MURDERS
The Whitechapel murders in 1888, commonly known as the ‘Jack the Ripper' murders, took place in London between August 31st and November 9th.
The officer in charge of the investigation was Inspector (later Chief Inspector) Frederick G. Abberline and this stick appears to have been presented to him by his team of seven detectives at the conclusion of the inquiry.
Whilst the murderer was never identified, it is known that Inspector Abberline favoured the theory that the Ripper was a Dr. Alexander Pedachenko or Ostrog, an alleged Russian Anarchist living in the London area at the time, and the head of the stick may well be based on his features.
The stick was found amongst the possessions of ex-Chief Inspector Hugh Pirnie (Dorset and Bournemouth) by his son, Commander Ian Pirnie, R.M., and presented by him to the college.
(Chief Inspector Pirnie served on the directing staff from March, 1950, to December, 1953.)
It is apparent that someone has read The Identity of Jack the Ripper and has based the inscription on McCormick. They then conjecture, with no real evidence, that the face on the stick might possibly be that of the Ripper and this has then been picked up by Underwood, the television show that Yvonne was talking about and the source that I originally heard the tale from, (which I, maddeningly, still cannot find.)
I suppose that this all should be a cautionary tale on how information can become innocently injected into the hunt for the Ripper and then take on a life of it's own. Whoever wrote the inscription was using the preeminent source of the day, McCormick, and, as we all know, Ripper authors tend to speak with authority and plausibility. McCormick was the truth until Tom Cullen published in 65 so the fault, if there is any, lies with those who have turned an inscription on a card into an anecdote broadcast on television and taken as fact.
Wolf. |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Wednesday, 06 June 2001 - 03:17 pm | |
Dear Fellow Investigators,
What does this walking stick have to do with Jack the Ripper? Wolf, normally such a stick would have a silver hallmark...any clue as to the date of its manufacture?
Stickler, Rosey :-) |
Author: Grailfinder
Wednesday, 06 June 2001 - 03:49 pm | |
Hi all
Please could someone provide a list of names of the 7 Detectives that presented the cane to Inspector Abberline, and did they all have a cane? or was this a one-off, made for Abberline's retirement?
Cheers GF |
Author: Christopher T George
Wednesday, 06 June 2001 - 04:42 pm | |
Hi, Wolf:
Based on what you are telling us it seems to me that not only is the story that the walking stick features a representation of a suspect's features extremely shaky but that Abberline's ownership of the stick seems in doubt too. That is, the stick was found among the effects "of ex-Chief Inspector Hugh Pirnie (Dorset and Bournemouth)" by that officer's son, and that it only "appears" to have been the stick that was presented to Abberline. Since we know, apparently, that there were similar such sticks carved, who is to say it is Abberline's walking stick? Yet another Ripper mystery within the larger mystery. 
Chris George |
Author: Simon Owen
Wednesday, 06 June 2001 - 06:30 pm | |
Do we know if Inspector Abberline left a will and last testament or not ? If so , it would be fascinating reading , it might even mention the walking stick or not.
The possessions of the Abberlines must have gone somewhere , to someone - they may still be in existence today. If so , they can be tracked down.
The first step would be to examine Abberline's will in the Records office. |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Wednesday, 06 June 2001 - 07:43 pm | |
Dear Chris,
If it had a wheel...I think I know who lost it.
Rosey :-) |
