Author: Roger Barber
Wednesday, 21 April 1999 - 06:16 pm |        |
| How come no-one has come up with a photograph. After all, he worked for Pinkerton's Detective Agency and then retired to Bournemouth where he must have belonged to something! |
Author: Roger Barber
Monday, 03 May 1999 - 09:03 am | |
| What - no response? You disappoint me! |
Author: Christopher T. George
Monday, 03 May 1999 - 09:34 am | |
Roger:
Stewart Evans and other researchers have been assiduously searching for images of Abberline for some time. Of course, it can be safely assumed that Abberline was photographed but probably those photographs have been long lost. My understanding from Stewart is that another image of Abberline has been located but that it is a drawing or etching not a photograph.
Chris George |
Author: Scott Russell Chapman
Friday, 23 February 2001 - 05:06 pm | |
Hi,
I cant understand why Abberline's grave was unmarked, after all he couldn't have been poor!
Please could someone put me out my missery and tell me why?
Thanks, Scott |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Friday, 23 February 2001 - 08:18 pm | |
Dear Scott,
Unfortunately a most unremarkable man, and remarkably, an unfortunate copper.
However, somebody saw merit in a bio-pic of his more memorable moments: Inspector Clousseu.
Love,
Rosemary |
Author: Paul Begg
Saturday, 24 February 2001 - 03:39 am | |
Hi Scott
Far from unremarkable, Abberline was in fact a very distinguished policeman. Be that as it may, he didn't have immediate relatives, which may explain the grave.
However, as part of the UK Conference on Jack the Ripper in Bournemouth later this year a commemorative plaque honouring Inspector Abberline to be erected on his home by Bournemouth Council will be unveiled. The Conference will also have Abberline's annotated press cutting book and the Bramshill walking stick on show and Ripperologist will be publishing an extract from Abberline's unpublished memoirs. Lots of other exciting things too, including an event honouring the work of Stewart Evans and Keith Skinner, in particular their superb and just titled "Ultimate" and their forthcoming book on the letters, which we hope to have available at a special conference price and which can be signed by the authors! As a taster of what the book is about, we hope also to have the genuine "Dear Boss" letter!
See info@ripperconference.co.uk |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Saturday, 24 February 2001 - 10:20 am | |
Dear Paul,
We disagree on this copper. But I think me and Jack would agree, he was the right man for the job. Emm...wonder who selected him for that assignment?
Rosemary |
Author: Caroline Anne Morris
Saturday, 24 February 2001 - 12:48 pm | |
'Abberline Abberline Abberline Abberline
The devil take the bastard'
Seems like a certain diarist chose to portray this copper as a very prickly thorn in Jack's side - when he wasn't sending him up, that is.
Wonder what the obsession shows?
Love,
Caz |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Sunday, 25 February 2001 - 06:18 pm | |
I really have problems with accepting Abberline's
brilliance as a detective, and posted a rather
telling little habit he seemed to have which
did not speak well of him, on another thread
of this section of the message boards. Can somebody tell me a few cases that Abberline
solved and how he solved them.
Jeff Bloomfield |
Author: Paul Begg
Monday, 26 February 2001 - 08:10 am | |
| He received 84 commendations and awards, so he must have done something right; he was given a testimonial banquet when he left the East End; was put in charge of the highly sensitive Cleveland Street affair; and on his retirement he was appointed the successor of another senior ex-Met officer as European Agent of the Pinkertons Detective Agency. Other officers, such as Macnaghten, also spoke highly of him. |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Monday, 26 February 2001 - 08:04 pm | |
Yeah, Paul, I am aware of his involvement in the
Cleveland Street affair, as the Detective in
charge. The case did not result in any arrests
of the members of the male sex club. One of them,
Lord Arthur Somerset, was close to the Royal Family and managed to avoid arrest (and lived out
his life in France). The Earl of Euston proved he
was not a member of the club. A newspaper editor
who hinted at other members was given a prison
sentence. Somehow (unless you are suggesting
that Abberline perposely botched the investigation
for the sake of his social betters) this does not
suggest a brilliant detective.
What I posted elsewhere was a bad habit of
Abberline's, tying into the George Chapman theory
regarding the Ripper. Supposedly, after Chapman's
arrest in 1902 for the murder of his third "wife",
Abberline came down to the station Chapman was
at and said, "You have finally arrested Jack the
Ripper." [Or some statement like that.]
He did the same thing years earlier. In 1886 a
man named James Lee was arrested, tried and
executed for the murder of a Police Inspector
Simmons on the Romford Road. In actuality there
were two men involved in the struggle that led
to Simmons' death, and Lee was not the man that
actually killed the Inspector. Abberline was supposed to find the actual killer, but months
passed and nothing happened. Then, there was
a major burglary - murder case at a country seat
called Netherby Hall. In the escape, the trio of
burglars wounded two policemen and killed a third
(P.O. Byrne). The trio was eventually captured.
When they were being booked, Abberline turned up
and identified one of them, John Martin, as the
man who had killed Simmons. There seems to be
a pattern here that whenever he could not find
a criminal, he was ready to identify a captured
one as the criminal he sought!
This is the interpretation I have given it. You
may be far better informed about this, but if so
can you explain why Abberline seems to show up
with such pat conclusions after others have done
work on unrelated cases? I would appreciate
any enlightenment on this.
Jeff |
Author: Martin Fido
Tuesday, 27 February 2001 - 08:17 am | |
The Earl of Euston boldly faced down the claim that he was an habitue of the club with the claim that he had been given a card purporting to advertise 'poses plastiques' (nude tableaux by women) there. And he got away with it.
But a few years later he was on Chief Inspector Swanson's list of those attending 'the Chelsea Buggers' Ball' (Swanson's words). I think Euston did everything the telegraph boys claimed he did.
Martin Fido |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Tuesday, 27 February 2001 - 10:47 pm | |
The Chelsea's "Buggers Ball"? Was dress optional?
(Sorry!).
Jeff |
Author: Tom Wescott
Wednesday, 07 March 2001 - 12:07 am | |
Hello,
This is an interesting discussion. I came to this thread with the same question as Joseph above. I find it remarkable that there are no photos of Abberline available. You would think Scotland Yard would have some, or Pinkertons, or descendants, etc. At least one! Considering how celebrated this man was and is, it boggles my mind. Something else that bothers me is the way he is portrayed as an addict in films. Michael Caine's Abberline was a drunk, Depp's a heroin (I think) addict. We're about two films away from seeing Abberline portrayed by Chris Tucker tokin' on da crack pipe, downing a 40, and kickin' it with his East End homeys, with his mind on his money and his money on his mind. Complete with a soundtrack by Master P. They could call it...Jack the Rapper!!!
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott
P.S. After reading her posts above, I can see why no one likes Rosemary. |
Author: Christopher T George
Wednesday, 07 March 2001 - 07:21 am | |
Hi, Tom:
I am constantly on the look out in internet auctions of old photographs, or in archives, for any possible photos of either Chief Inspector Frederick George Abberline or Dr. Francis Tumblety. [Not necessarily of the two men side by side!  ] Both men must have been photographed in their lifetime but it seems remarkable that no photograph of either is known to exist. All we have is the well known sketches. The accompanying sketch appeared in the British satirical magazine Toby. Thanks to Stewart Evans for finding the image. It is in his book written with Nick Connell, The Man Who Hunted Jack the Ripper: Edmund Reid and the Police Perspective. As with many such period sketches, it may have been based on a photograph of Abberline.
Best regards
Chris George
 |
Author: Caroline Anne Morris
Wednesday, 07 March 2001 - 09:34 am | |
Hi Chris,
Thanks for posting this image, found by Stewart. Is there a date that it appeared in Toby, and is the name of the artist known? Thanks.
Love,
Caz |
Author: Christopher T George
Wednesday, 07 March 2001 - 11:36 pm | |
Hi Caz:
Stewart would probably be able to give you information on when the sketch of Abberline appeared in Toby and if it is known who the artist was who did the portrait.
Best regards
Chris |
Author: Stewart P Evans
Thursday, 08 March 2001 - 02:37 am | |
The picture of Abberline was discovered by Nick Connell, not me, whilst we were writing The Man Who Hunted Jack the Ripper. It appeared on the front page of Toby of Saturday, September 8, 1888, and is captioned-
"Inspector Abberline of the London Detective Department, in charge of the inquiries into the two murders and mutilations in Whitechapel."
The artist is not known. |
Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 08 March 2001 - 06:50 am | |
Hi, Stewart:
Thanks for the information. It occurred to me after I wrote that you found the image that it might have been Nick Connell who did the finding. I am glad that you have clarified the matter and confirmed that it was indeed Nick who found the sketch in Toby. Now, if we could only find that photograph of Abberline. . . I do have a line of enquiry to follow on that and will keep you posted. Possibly I may have such an image by the time of the Bournemouth conference on September 28-October 1 where Abberline will be feted. At any rate I can always seek "To Dream the Impossible Dream" :-)
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: Tom Wescott
Thursday, 08 March 2001 - 10:56 am | |
Stewart,
Where do you go to find these old magazines and newspapers? The only place I know of to get them is off of eBay. Is there some place in London that houses them all?
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Author: Caroline Anne Morris
Thursday, 08 March 2001 - 12:18 pm | |
Hi Stewart,
Thanks for the information, much appreciated as usual.
Very much looking forward to seeing all the [JtR] letters after your and Keith's names. :-)
Love,
Caz |
Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 08 March 2001 - 01:00 pm | |
Hi, Tom:
The British Library's Newspaper Library on Colindale Avenue in London is the big archival center in Great Britain for contemporary newspapers. See http://portico.bl.uk/collections/newspaper/britnews.html#top
Having said that, microfilm copies of many world newspapers are available in libraries throughout the world. You may wish to check with an archive near you, Tom, for microfilmed copies of newspapers of the period that might have stories on the Whitechapel murders. In fact, Stewart in the interview I did with him for Ripper Notes made the point that an untapped source of information is newspapers worldwide that carried stories on the Ripper murders and that might have some nuggets of information that could be of use in research.
Chris George |
Author: Tom Wescott
Thursday, 08 March 2001 - 09:53 pm | |
Chris,
I live in Oklahoma...The only archive I could find here would be the Farmer's Almanac, but I appreciate the suggestion. I'll have to check out that site. Thanks!
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Author: Christopher-Michael DiGrazia
Friday, 09 March 2001 - 08:47 am | |
Chris, I wonder if you and I are pursuing the same line of inquiry re: Abberline photographs. In my case, it's an area I'm not going to be able to access until September, if at all.
Perhaps the point that Abberline had no immediate relatives is the answer for why there are no extant photographs of him (excluding the Pinkerton possibility). Once he's dead and buried and the estate agent comes to clean out the house, what happens to the personal posessions that aren't claimed by friends, neighbours or attendants? Whoosh, off they go into the dustbin. Have you ever trawled through antique stores and flea markets and come upon boxes of photographs where you can take away a handful for free? There they are, families, newlyweds, schoolchildren and all, now just old, faded relicts of anonymity, because someone at sometime threw them out.
Still, I hope I'm wrong. I always read Abberline described as looking like a portly bank manager. Even though I've seen the sketches of him, I still imagine him looking a bit like Roger Hammond, who played Jabez Wilson in "The Red-Headed League" with Jeremy Brett.
CMD |
Author: Tom Wescott
Friday, 09 March 2001 - 08:34 pm | |
Chris and CMD,
Abberline looks like a portly bank manager to me, which made me wonder whose mind put Johnny Depp in his shoes. Don't get me wrong, I love Depp's work and look forward to the movie, but still. I'll be honest with you two, I'm very intrigued as to this 'line of inquiry' you have on Abberline pictures. Could you share a little info?
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Author: Scott Russell Chapman
Monday, 07 May 2001 - 05:16 pm | |
Hi All,
I have in my possession a new picture of Abberline's House in Bournemouth, it was taken by myself during the Easter Holiday's. I took it with a digital camera so the picture is now on my computer, the only problem is is that I don't know how to bring the picture from a different file into this message! So if anyone can help me it would be much appreciated.
Thanking you, Scott |
Author: Christopher T George
Tuesday, 08 May 2001 - 03:40 pm | |
Hi, Scott:
I did e-mail Stephen Ryder about your problem, so I don't know whether that redoubtable young man has contacted you or not. Possibly I can help though. If the image is on your "C" drive, if you go to "Formatting" at left and note how to upload a picture, it is quite easy in that it will prompt you to browse on your computer to find the image by its file name and then you should be able to upload it to this page. I have done it quite often and it seems to work fine.
All the best
Chris |
Author: Scott Russell Chapman
Tuesday, 08 May 2001 - 03:57 pm | |
Hi Chris,
I am afraid the pictures are on a floppy disk and no he hasn't contacted me and i've already sent them to him via e-mail anyway so he should have them to put on the site.
In the meantime you can see the pictures on my new site www.jtr.homestead.com/jacktheripper.html allright the site is a bit basic but soon i will be putting some information on it about my Great Great Uncle Albert Bachert, so it looks to be good!
Thanking you, Scott. |
Author: Scott Russell Chapman
Tuesday, 08 May 2001 - 04:03 pm | |
Hi All,
Sorry make that http://jtr.homestead,com/jacktheripper.html you can click on it now. |
Author: John Omlor
Tuesday, 08 May 2001 - 04:06 pm | |
Hi Scott,
You've got a very nice site developing there, I must say. Well done.
I see that Inspector Abberline had satellite TV! This is something I had not known before and it gives me a whole new sense of respect for the man.
Nice work, Scott. Thanks for the link,
-John |
Author: John Omlor
Tuesday, 08 May 2001 - 04:10 pm | |
Hi again, Scott,
Your first address was right. I used it, copying it and pasting it. The second post you sent as a correction actually has a misplaced comma in the URL. You can use the "edit" option in the border at the top of your post to go back and correct it.
Thanks again for the nice link,
--John |
Author: Christopher T George
Tuesday, 08 May 2001 - 09:48 pm | |
Hi, John:
Yes the satellite TV was so Abberline could watch Michael Caine play his part in the TV movie "Jack the Ripper" and pick holes in the performance. A few years hence and he will be able to do the same with Johnny Depp when "From Hell" hits the small screen. 
Chris George |
