Archive through 10 February 2003

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Archive through 10 February 2003

Casebook Message Boards: Pub Talk: Future of the Message Boards: Archive through 10 February 2003

Author: Spryder Sunday, 09 February 2003 - 08:36 pm
Ally has stepped down as moderator of these message boards. Although some of you have had your clashes with her in the past, I think we all owe her a big thank you for having manned the fort, through thick and thin, for the past few years. Sadly, recent events have made this forum more of a burden to me than I am perhaps willing and able to bear. I am in the process of deciding whether or not to close these boards, and will make an announcement on this within the next few days.
Author: Eric Cannon Sunday, 09 February 2003 - 08:47 pm
I am very sorry to hear about this, guys
Author: Richard P. Dewar Sunday, 09 February 2003 - 08:48 pm
Hi All, I hope that the Casebook message boards continue to exist. However, I can certainly understand the frustration Mr. Ryder has experienced. I would like to thank him for this board and the opportunity it has afforded for all people interested in the case to exchange their opinions and views. I would also like to thank Ally. She and I have had our share of clashes. Nonetheless, I appreciate all of her efforts to keep the boards going. I would like to express my deepest appreciation to her. It is unfortunate that those who have their personal legal clashes have chosen the Casebook as a forum for their confrontations - and subject the operators of this board to deal with their petty rivalries. Nonetheless, I hope the Casebook message boards continue to operate. If they do not, it is a loss for us all. However, I am sure we all salute the wonderful work done over the past few years. Regards, Rich
Author: Lisa Muir Sunday, 09 February 2003 - 08:51 pm
I rarely find myself adding anything to these boards, and there have truly been times when reading them seemed much more of a tedious chore than something to enjoy. All the same, though, I know I'd miss them if they weren't here. And so I hope they continue on. Meanwhile, cheers to Ally for all the time and work she's given so freely to such a thankless task. And thanks to Stephen for starting all this in the first place.
Author: David O'Flaherty Sunday, 09 February 2003 - 08:57 pm
I'd also like to thank Ally--she's always been friendly and helpful towards me. I'd be sorry to see the message boards go, but I believe Stephen should act in his best interests. Best, Dave
Author: judith stock Sunday, 09 February 2003 - 10:57 pm
Stephen, you know how I feel about the you, Ally, and these boards. You also know that most of us would NEVER have put up with a lot of this crap for one nanosecond; you, however, have furnished a forum for well-considered thoughts, well-researched posts, exchange of information on an unprecedented scale, idiotic theories, posts from the planet Xenon and its' inhabitants, foolishness of the first order (I AM GUILTY, she cried!), horrendous arguments, name calling, mud slinging, threats of legal action, and downright libellous remarks. You provided the funding and the vehicle for people to call each other (and you!) names; you gave us the boards freely, and generously. You have provided a treasure, and we -- ALL OF US -- have pooped on it. I apologise for having contributed to anything that may have caused you concern. The majority of posts AND posters have thought about the things they write before they click that button. A few have not. For me, closing the boards and taking a loooooong breather makes good sense. Perhaps someday you will revive them; until then, my thanks go to you and Ally for a job BETTER than well done. I have a feeling we are about to prove the old adage that you never really appreciate what you have until it's gone! Regards, Judy Perpetual Representative of Sooty, Soo and Sweep Proponent of the Howdy Doody Theory Major PITA Good Friend of Stephen and Ally
Author: Philip C. Dowe Monday, 10 February 2003 - 02:37 am
Stephen and Ally, there is nothing worse than starting a week with bad news. Ally, you have done a grand job here and I am sad that you have decided to take this step. But I can understand it. You have taken a taken a lot of heat in the last weeks. I have seldom known a better moderator! Stephen, this board was (!) fantastic and has been used by some great people. Where else has one has the possibilty of discussing with not only well known reseachers like Paul Begg and Stewart P. Evans. It is not only them but the leagues of others who have contributed here, to name a few the two Christophers, Scott, Richard P., Peter Wood (!), Tom, Monty (!) etc. etc. As I have said in the past this is your living-room and if you want to tear it down it is your decision. A few have misused this forum in recent weeks and if your decision is based on their behaviour it makes it even worse, because the level-headed posters are kicked in the shin. If there is anything I can do to keep this board alive I will gladly do it, even if it means investing time and power. Yours, Philip
Author: Chris Phillips Monday, 10 February 2003 - 03:52 am
It would certainly be sad if the boards closed. I have found them only relatively recently, and I think they're an excellent resource. But I can understand that moderating boards like these is a very time-consuming and often thankless task. If the decision is made to close them, could I make one plea? Could the existing messages be left in place, even if no new ones are accepted? There is a tremendous amount of factual material there, as well as informed opinion, which it would be a shame to lose.
Author: Andy & Sue Parlour Monday, 10 February 2003 - 05:57 am
Ally & Stephen, Please re-consider. It is a great pity that some poster's have used the boards to air personal grievances, which is obviously the wrong thing, and the wrong place to do it. Bear in mind all the other poster's who just enjoy the boards for what they are: An international forum for discussing all points of view whether or not everyone agrees or not. The boards are the very first thing I go on when opening up, I dare say that is what most others do as well. Remember there are many out there who do not contribute to the boards, but nonetheless, enjoy reading the contents. Please think again. Andy & Sue Parlour.
Author: Chris Jd Monday, 10 February 2003 - 06:41 am
Stephen, please don't close such a wonderful place of discussion! If you must, be more strict with banning-rules, so things do not get out of hand, but please consider the overall majority here who "behave" well and contribute or want to read lots of interesting stuff. This is THE place for brainstorming and sharing ideas about JTR in the world. Christian Philip C.:Viper ought to be mentioned as well!
Author: Philip C. Dowe Monday, 10 February 2003 - 07:52 am
Hi Christian and everybody else nearly everbody who has contributed here ought to be mentioned. The names I mentioned were are an early morning subjective list. To all I have forgotten (and Viper is just one - more spring to mind now): you just slipped my mind, which does not mean I have forgotten you, don't like you, don't think you have done a great job, don't think you are not worth mentioning. Shalom Philip
Author: Vila Monday, 10 February 2003 - 08:27 am
Oh NOOOOOOOOOO! Civilization is crashing down around my ears! Please keep the Boards open! I'f I had to make a list of all the things I've had to give up in the last year alone, everyone would think I'm locked away in a dungeon somewhere. The Boards are the first website I check out every day (sometimes several times a day), right after checking my e-mail. I know that Ally is holding down two jobs as well as taking classes, and this bunch of highly opinionated individuals has got to be a hair-pulling, nightmare inducing group to ride herd upon. I'm really sorry that she's decided to step down. I can't think of anyone I'd rather have as Moderator here. That said, I stand behind whatever decisions have to be made. Ally, you've done a great job, and I hope you'll come back and moderate here again when your time is less full. Stephen, I've been with you off and on since way early in the Casebook's history and I have to say that I think closing the Boards down would wind up being a terrible thing to have to do. But if you feel that you must, I'll hate it, but I'll understand. If there's anything I can do, e-mail me. Vila
Author: Ally Monday, 10 February 2003 - 09:07 am
Hey everybody, Thanks for all the nice things you said, even though I had to pay most of you. I have enjoyed the boards tremendously and if they stay open, I think I will enjoy them much more when I am not constrained by being a moderator. You thought I was a witch on wheels before...just wait. Seriously though I have enjoyed the majority of people here a lot, even those that I have clashed with. A good clash gets the blood pumping I always say..normally right into that vein in my temple.... I do not know whether the boards will close or not, I am staying out of it, but if they do close and on the off chance they might re-open again, I am taking email addresses for people who want to be notified if they re-open. I have resigned, I am no longer moderator and this is not a moderator function. I just happen to have an in with the boss and can notify anyone who is interested without you having to come and check the boards each morning. Please send your email to JtRCasebook@aol.com if you wish to be contacted in the event the boards re-open. Best Wishes to everyone ...hey 4 day weekend for me, gotta love the snow..see anyone in chat tonight who is around. Ally
Author: Paula Wolff Monday, 10 February 2003 - 09:36 am
Ally and Stephen, thank you for everything. I never contributed anything of interest or expectations but enjoyed those who did...with a couple of exceptions. But you have both handled everything with grace and fairness. You are to be commended and praised. It's a great board and will be missed if closed. But I have another life somewhere so it will go on. Thanks again for all. Paula
Author: Yazoo Monday, 10 February 2003 - 09:54 am
Many, many thanks to Stephen for all the time, money, and effort he has spent in supplying us with this forum. If there is anything I can do to lighten the burden so that this board can remain open, please let me know. If there is not, and this site must close, rest assured you have done enough in the area of putting JtR studies within reach of the "huddled masses" that you will long be remembered for your work here. And thanks too go out to you, Ally, who brought Law to the JtR Wild West. I may not have agreed with you on some issues but that disagreement was a small price to pay for the order you forged out of near anarchy. Best wishes to you both. Yax (Mark Warren)
Author: Kevin Braun Monday, 10 February 2003 - 10:03 am
Steven, It would be a shame if the recent petty bickering closed the message boards. I know they can be a pain the butt at times. It goes with the territory. On the other hand, they have generated many fascinating debates and are a great source of information. I would hate to see them go. In any event, thanks for letting me participate. Take care, Kevin
Author: Christopher T George Monday, 10 February 2003 - 10:05 am
Hi, Ally and Stephen: Many thanks to both of you for your hard work in bringing these message boards to scholars of the case. I will be sorry to see these boards go if that is the decision but can well understand the burden they are to you, Stephen. I also know that the decision on whether to close the boards, if such a decision has to be made, will be a hard one for you to make. Despite the bad or frustrating aspects of these boards in terms of the mixed quality of the messages posted, I do feel strongly that the worthwhile information that has been posted here over the years well outweighs the dross. So again, whatever decision you come to, I thank you both for the work you have put in here and on the site generally. Best regards Chris George
Author: richard nunweek Monday, 10 February 2003 - 10:05 am
HI , I have only been using the boards on a regular bases for a few weeks , and I have found it great fun and extremly imformative. I am sorry that this may have to come to an end because a few people are out of order, and I can only hope that we can keep going , after all we are the best trained police force ever, and if we cant sort out this mystery WHO CAN?. Best regards Richard.
Author: Christopher-Michael DiGrazia Monday, 10 February 2003 - 10:58 am
Stephen and Ally - As I generally stay offline during the weekends, I only discovered this thread this morning. Obviously, you both know your own schedules best, and will make the proper decision based on what is best for yourselves. Should you decide to close the boards, I will be regretful, as neither my personal nor professional life would be what it is without the theories, thoughts and friends I have met during my time on this site. It has been a welcome constant for many years, and I thank you both for everything you have done. Wishing you all the best, CMD
Author: Monty Monday, 10 February 2003 - 11:29 am
Ally & Spy & my mates (yes even Mr Wood), What can one say....Stephen, I hope that you carry this on. I have no way of imagining the burden these boards bring but I pray they do not outweigh the pleasures. Thank you for the fun and education you have allowed these boards to bring me. I hope to see you around, if not then I wish you well..... ...Ally, what a broad !! She has taught me patience, grace, sophistication and the meaning of SAR-CAR-SAM !!!!! Cheers to the thigh high booted one !!... ....and to the rest of you. In the highly likely event of these boards going t*ts up I would like to say a thank you to all of you sad, funny, clever, arrogant, never dull yet suspiciously drunk people who I have never met yet consider you my Buddies. Its been a blast... ...may the wind be in your face... Monty PS DOWE...why have I got an (!) after my name ??
Author: Philip C. Dowe Monday, 10 February 2003 - 11:57 am
Hi Monty, because you saved me once! Remember mate? Philip
Author: Monty Monday, 10 February 2003 - 12:04 pm
Philip C, Aaaaahhh yesssss !! Im still waiting for that pint !!! Monty
Author: David Radka Monday, 10 February 2003 - 01:34 pm
Ally, Thank you so much for your understanding and generosity to all of us. I will never forget our give and take relationship, and the place we were finally able to get to in it together. Thanks so much for holding up your side of the bargain--it will always be appreciated. Stephen, Please let us know what we can do to make the burden easier on you, so that the message boards can continue. Thank you for being the foundation stone of modern Ripperology. David
Author: AP. Wolf Monday, 10 February 2003 - 01:59 pm
I can only speak as a relative newcomer here, but I would view the end of these message boards as a complete and utter disaster for not only the continuation of 'fair-play' in this highly complicated and much disputed field of research, but also as a genuine threat to ever discovering the identity of Jack the Lad, and therefore I would move heaven and earth to see the continuation of these boards. As a writer I am not a wealthy man, but would be more than willing to pay a heavy subscription to see these boards continue. As a person who enjoys a damn good intellectual battle I would virtually do anything to see that these boards continue. I view these boards not as message boards but as the life and blood of the continuing sage of Jack the Ripper. Without them we would be stepping back to the age of 1993 when I first entered this complicated and convulated world of mayhem and murder, and that was not a nice place to be. This is the real world, back then in 1993 it was the secure domain of the smug few.
Author: judith stock Monday, 10 February 2003 - 02:30 pm
Unfortunately, AP et.al., I see the possible loss of the boards as the "smug few" intruding into your real world scenario. STRICTLY AS AN OBSERVER, I have been appalled at the invective used here; that invective was NOT in support of a strongly felt opinion...it was in aid of making threats aimed directly at Stephen as the benefactor of these boards. The loss of the boards would be dreadful; it would be a waste, and a sad day for us all who have met and made friends here. For those who have threatened Stephen, the Casebook, or other posters, I say: IF WE LOSE THE BOARDS, IT IS YOUR DOING; ALL THE REST OF US WILL PAY FOR WHAT YOU HAVE DONE. THANKS LOADS TO ALL OF YOU WHO CLICK BEFORE YOU THINK ....AND YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE. Who could blame Stephen for entertaining the removal of this particular wart? As owner and benefactor of the Casebook and the boards, he is the only one who can make this decision...all the "thank you's" and posts of praise probably won't make any difference. The barn door has opened and the horse is out...not only did we OPEN the door, we stood by and watched the horse run away.... badly done, us. It has been fun, guys; thanks again to Stephen and Ally for tolerating all this crap for so long...you deserved better. J
Author: jennifer pegg Monday, 10 February 2003 - 03:10 pm
im sorry to read this thread. this is a great website i want to thank ally and stephen for manning the boards jennifer
Author: David Radka Monday, 10 February 2003 - 03:50 pm
Who is being talked about here as threatening Stephen? I haven't seen this explicitly on the boards--has it been done off the boards? Someone once had been threatening ME by e-mail; I reported it and he was banned. I would like to sincerely thank the management for considering my plight in that case, and would like to assist them any way I can now. David
Author: stephen miller Monday, 10 February 2003 - 04:02 pm
I'd like to add my thanks to Stephen and Ally for maintaining these boards they have done a wonderful job I do hope the boards continue because they are a fantastic discussion forum but I fully understand if they have to close all the best steve
Author: Spryder Monday, 10 February 2003 - 04:21 pm
The future of these message boards... In recent months the Casebook message boards have fallen victim to a handful of irresponsible individuals who have used them as a means of attacking their enemies and detractors. Attempts were made to curb this behavior, but the behavior continued, escalated, and has now come to the point where myself and the Casebook are being held legally accountable for the irresponsible posts of others. I had grand ideas for these boards when they were first created six years ago. I had envisioned the free exchange of information between readers and authors, Brits and Americans, novices and experts alike. New information would be shared. New ideas explored. New suspects hashed out. New books discussed. For a while, that's what these boards were all about. Sadly, it didn't last long. The anonymity of these boards has shielded some of the worst behavior I've ever seen in a supposedly "adult" community. Until recently it was a nuisance. Now it has become a serious legal problem that may jeopardize the Casebook as a whole. Two alternatives exist. The first is to close the boards entirely. The second is to make significant changes to them that will both offer sufficient legal protection to myself and the Casebook, and will ensure that only those who truly wish to discuss the case will be allowed to participate. I have decided to attempt the latter as a last resort before shutting down the boards completely. Here is the plan. 1. The boards will be erased of content. All current content will be wiped from the public message boards, permanently. It will no longer be made available online. Those who wish to keep an archive are free to purchase the Casebook CD-Rom, which contains all previous message board content (email cd@casebook.org for more information). 2. All registrations will be wiped. All usernames will be removed from the message boards - there will be no exceptions. 3. New registrations. New registrations will be accepted from all interested parties, EIGHTEEN OR OLDER, but the following steps need to be taken in order to register for the new boards. * A registration form will be provided in MSWord format (Acrobat and ASCII formats as well). This form will contain the terms and conditions of these boards. These terms are largely the same as those already existing - namely, that you will not post libelous, damaging, plagiarized, threatening, obscene or otherwise inappropriate material, and that you will not, under any circumstances, hold the Casebook legally responsible for posts made to the forum by other users. * This form must be printed, filled out in full, signed, dated, and mailed to me. I will not accept emailed or faxed forms. This is for my own protection. If a user breaks the terms and conditions, I will have a signed registration form as proof of their acceptance of these terms, and proof of their breach of contract. * There will be no charge to register on these boards, but donations will be greatly appreciated, to offset the loss in advertising revenue. Later on, a nominal one-time fee may be charged should the need arise. * Once I receive a registration form I will manually create your account, and you will be ready to read and post to the message boards, exactly as you do now. 4. Behavior on the message boards. Improper posts will NOT be allowed on the boards. Any post deemed to be inappropriate will be removed. The first removal is a warning. The second removal will be your last. Participants will be expected to behave appropriately at all times. Posts which include character attacks of any sort will be considered inappropriate, and no exceptions will be made. 5. Appropriate discussion topics. Discussion on these boards will be strictly limited to only those subjects related in some manner to the Ripper crimes. This includes discussion of Ripper media, Victorian subjects in general, serial murderers, the modern day East End, etc. Off-topic posts will be removed. Some examples of appropriate subjects: * Construction in and around Hanbury Street * The capture of a recent serial killer * The price of tea in 1888 * The latest Jack the Ripper reference in the news and media Some examples of inappropriate subjects: * The space shuttle disaster * The latest e-mail virus warnings * The purple Teletubby as Jack the Ripper The purpose of these boards will be serious discussion of the case and its surrounding subjects, period. Day-to-day conversations on non-Ripper topics can be carried on either via email or on another message board. These restrictions aren't meant to cramp the fun out of this forum, but rather to give it a sense of direction and purpose. A social atmosphere isn't a problem, but I don't have time to moderate posts on subjects completely unrelated to the case. Summation My hope is that these changes will allow for the following: 1. Only parties with a legitimate interest in the case will likely go through the trouble of registering for the site. 2. Posters will no longer be able to hide behind an anonymous nickname or email address. I will have their name, address and signature on file, should any malfeasance take place. This information will be kept private. Nevertheless, I retain the right to share such information with the proper authorities should legal problems arise with any individual user. 3. The focus of these boards will be Jack the Ripper, full stop. Tolerance of inappropriate behavior will be nil. Posters should feel comfortable discussing the case without having to worry about attacks from various subversive elements. 4. On a personal note, I will feel much more comfortable having signed forms on file from all participants, agreeing to abide by the rules of the site and agreeing not to hold myself or the Casebook responsible for any perceived attacks posted to the boards. Your thoughts? This is my proposal. As it stands now, this is the only solution I could find which would allow me to feel comfortable in continuing these forums. I realize this will not make everyone happy, but with that in mind, I welcome your suggestions and comments.
Author: judith stock Monday, 10 February 2003 - 04:56 pm
Works for me, Stephen! J
Author: AP. Wolf Monday, 10 February 2003 - 04:59 pm
Stephen. your use of the word 'malfeasance' makes me agree to anything you say. I am in total agreement with everything you say - apart from the fact me printer is busted and I don't seem able to get it going so would have difficulty in printing out your form, but I suppose you could post it or I could get my printer fixed. I personally think you should charge a reasonable fee for the use of these message boards, after all we all spend a hell of a lot of money with sky and the like and don't get half the pleasure we do here. As I said before I live on a small island cut off from the mainstream that you lot enjoy and this site has become essential reading for me. Keep it up, and I'll do whatever I can to support you.
Author: Vila Monday, 10 February 2003 - 05:09 pm
Spryder, Send me the form, or the URL of same as soon as it is possible. Vila vila@america.net
Author: Scott Nelson Monday, 10 February 2003 - 05:19 pm
See what happens when people post SPAM messages continually?
Author: David O'Flaherty Monday, 10 February 2003 - 05:28 pm
Okay, Stephen--these are very reasonable terms. Please notify us when the form is available for download. A.P., I'll be happy to print an extra copy to mail to you, if you're unable to get your printer working. I know how it is. You can contact me at the email address in my profile if you wish. Best, Dave
Author: Spryder Monday, 10 February 2003 - 07:41 pm
Thanks to those who have shown their support. I've drafted the necessary form and placed it online in a variety of formats. Most of you will probably find it easiest to choose the web format, and then print the web page, but it is available in ASCII TXT, RTF and DOC formats as well: HTML - http://www.casebook.org/images/terms.htm WORD DOC - http://www.casebook.org/images/terms.doc RTF - http://www.casebook.org/images/terms.rtf ASCII TXT - http://www.casebook.org/images/terms.txt Complete forms can be mailed to: Stephen P. Ryder P.O. Box 3593 Warrenton, VA 20188 USA Please complete all fields within the form, incomplete forms can not be processed. I can not accept emailed or faxed versions of this form. I intend to wipe the boards completely sometime this weekend. At that point this notice (and the linked forms) will be made available at the home page of http://forum.casebook.org.
Author: Terry "Dont call me Hulk" Hogan Monday, 10 February 2003 - 07:44 pm
Total agreement.
Author: Divia deBrevier Monday, 10 February 2003 - 07:46 pm
Greetings all: Oh, gee. I go away for a weekend and come back to this? Oh, dear.... Well, of course I will support and comply with anything that Stephen deems necessary. Sadly, this will mean no more teas in Pub Talk. Do I at least get to keep my apron and tea trolley? And what about my button that says "Unofficial Casebook Message Boards Tea Lady"? Warm regards, Divia
Author: Diana Monday, 10 February 2003 - 07:49 pm
I am extremely anxious to reregister and extremely grateful for the opportunity to continue. Please bring on the form.
Author: Mark Andrew Pardoe Monday, 10 February 2003 - 07:51 pm
Whatho Stephen, I think your new rules are quite reasonable and I am happy to abide by them. I would hate to see the end of this forum from which I have learnt so much information (also rubbish but there we are). I do hope, however, not all the fun will be knocked out of the posts. We must not take things too seriously; that only leads to the realms of boredom and bigots. I am annoyed of the stupidity of some people who theatened you with legal action. They have spoilt it for the rest of us. In the meantime, thanks to you and Ally for the excellent service you provided. Cheers, Mark
Author: Ally Monday, 10 February 2003 - 07:56 pm
There will be a Pub Talk (or a version thereof) at the new and silly site, Divia. Wheel your trolley over there... and recommend a name for it. http://pub77.ezboard.com/bripperites