Author: chris scott
Saturday, 07 December 2002 - 02:28 pm |        |
Hi all
I have just found a copy of the 24th September which I am posting to the Pictures from Various Threads board
I notice the following:
1) It is addressed to Dear Sir, not Dear Boss
2) The Police stamp of 25 September suggests a good provenance for the date (unline the 17th September letter)
3)The letter does end yours truly but the name is blacked out - as is the passge where the correspondent gives his name and address in the letter
4) the correspondent says he is a horse slaughterer and it was Chapman he was after
My main question is this - does anyone know if any attempt has been made - chemically, photographically etc - to retrieve the name and address under the blacked out blocks?
I'd be very grateful for any info
Regards
chris scott |
Author: chris scott
Saturday, 07 December 2002 - 02:40 pm | |
Hi again - just noticed something odd about the 24th September letter!
Under the words "with nightmare" in the second line there is a faint sketch of a knife. It becomes much more apparent if you save the pic and put it into negative which was how I saw it
Regards
Chris Scott |
Author: Dan Norder
Saturday, 07 December 2002 - 04:33 pm | |
Chris,
It's probably a goose chase, but you never know.
Where did you get this image from, if I may ask? I can do some stuff in Photoshop on it, but in many of the most important places I am getting artifacts from the compression format into a JPEG file. A non-lossy image format (say, a TIF from an original scan) would be better. Of course, access to the original would be more helpful.
Even without a better image, it would be possible to make some educated guesses on what's underneeath the darkened out spots.
The name area at the top is awfully short, which rules out a lot of names, and the shape implies that there are ascenders and descenders on the letter (or letters) in that area -- unless the coffin shape was intentional. The name of the company has what appears to be two ascenders rising above the blacked out bar, and the last coffin blob at the end doesn't seem to cover the last part of that word completely.
I also see what appear to be loops and curves within the blackened out area. When scribbling overtop old text to try to make it unreadable, it is usually best to go in circles and lines to cover up the impressions in the paper. This appears to have not been done.
I can almost see what I think the original writing was in a few places, and it appears to get clearer the more I stare at it and filter out the meaningless noise from the meaningful bits of light and darkness. But between the uncertainity of it and being unfamiliar with this style of cursive I can't really make enough sense of it to form full words. Perhaps if I study the writing and get used to it I'd have better luck.
Dan |
Author: Tom Wescott
Saturday, 07 December 2002 - 05:38 pm | |
Hello all,
According to Cornwell's new book (I walking through a minefield here)they did some testing to see what was written under the blacked out spaces (name, address, etc.)and discovered that it said 'Ripper' under one, and 'ha' under another. If this is so, that makes the 24th letter the FIRST Ripper letter and from the same hand or hands as the 'Dear Boss' letter which arrived 3 days later. Despite the source, this is worth looking into.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott
P.S. I apologize that I don't have Cornwell's book in front of me to quote or provide page numbers. Because she accepted the Sept. 17th hoax as the first Ripper letter she didn't think her find in the 24th letter was important and only mentioned it as an aside. |
Author: chris scott
Saturday, 07 December 2002 - 06:00 pm | |
hi all
many thanks for the prompt replies!
Dan: I found the picture on the posting board of one of the MSN e-groups - the group is called "Old Saucy Jack" and the url is
http://groups.msn.com/oldsaucyJack/shoebox.msnw?Page=2
Tom
Many thanks for this info. Unlike some in the currently hysterical climate I try to take each piece of information on its own merits and will not let the source of any testing colour my opinion as to its use - or at least try not to!!!
I will be very interested in any enhancement etc that can be done and thanks again for the feedback and let's hope something useful comes out of it
Regards
Chris Scott |
Author: chris scott
Saturday, 07 December 2002 - 06:14 pm | |
Transcription of 24th September Letter
Text of letter
Sep 24 1888
Dear sir
I do wish to give myself up
I am in misery with nightmare
-faint sketch of knife-
I am the man who committed
all these murders in the last
six months my name is
-coffin shaped blacked out area with "so and so" written around the perimeter-
I am a horse? slauterer and work at
-two blacked out rectangles with "name" and "address" written above them-
I have found the woman I wanted
that is Chapman and I done? what
I called slautered her but if
any one comes I will surrender but I
am not going to walk to the station
by myself so I am yours truly
-coffin shaped blacked out area-
Letter is overstamped with:
Metropolitan Police
Received
25 SEP 88
Criminal Investigation Dept
I gave retained original spelling where this is incorrect and marked the two words I am uncertain about with a question mark |
Author: alex chisholm
Saturday, 07 December 2002 - 10:56 pm | |
Hi Chris
The faint knife you mention is actually a sketch, with further text, on the reverse of the page you posted.
This reverse view is also available at the address given in your post above.
All the Best
alex |
Author: alex chisholm
Saturday, 07 December 2002 - 11:28 pm | |
Hi Dan
I forgot to mention in my post to Chris, that full colour reproductions of both sides of this letter together with its envelope appear in the excellent Evans & Skinner “Letters from Hell” page 7.
Perhaps Stewart could provide a better quality image or scan to help with your scrutiny.
Best Wishes
alex |
Author: chris scott
Sunday, 08 December 2002 - 08:56 am | |
Hi Alex
Many thanks for the comments about the knife sketch and your comments about the Evans & Skinner book are even more incentive to buy it - I have now ordered it!!!
Thanks again
chris |
Author: julienonperson
Sunday, 08 December 2002 - 06:32 pm | |
Chris Scott,
I know you are busy, but I would really appreciate an answer to my possting re Abberline
Buried in an unmarked grave.
thank you. |
Author: chris scott
Sunday, 08 December 2002 - 08:19 pm | |
Julian
Which thread was your question in cos I can't find it in this one
Regards
Chris Scott |
Author: Dan Norder
Monday, 16 December 2002 - 10:16 pm | |
I just posted some magnifications of the blocked out areas with some tonal and color adjustment to the photo page:
General Discussion : Pictures From Various Threads : 24th September letter (see under Ripper letters)
I wasn't able to get the effects I had hoped. In fact, I think the just looking at the original file and squinting is sometimes easier. The graphics were made to be seen best at the monitor settings of my monitor, which is on a Macintosh. Macs usually run a little brighter in the mid- to darker ranges, so if you are on a PC you might want to see if adjusting your screen brightness helps you see the writing any better.
Stewart Evans graciously sent me a better version of the file than the one posted here, and the newer one was used to make these files. The little square like lines you might see (most noticeable as the frequent vertical lines) are artifacts from the process of turning the image into a JPEG file and should not be considered a part of the true image.
I could make guesses as to what the original words underneath were, but not very solid ones. I'd hate to voice my guesses as they may interfere with someone else looking at them objectively.
I don't see the "Ripper" or "Ha" Cornwell is rumored to have seen, mainly because there's obviously more text than that.
It seems very likely to me that having the original letter would make the process a lot easier. I'm not convinced it'd lead anywhere, but you never can tell.
Dan
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Author: chris scott
Tuesday, 17 December 2002 - 06:26 am | |
Dan
many, many thanks for the work you have done on these and I'll be looking at your results very closely
I do appreciate it when people share knowledge and expertise - to me that's what it's all about.
Thanks again and I hope you have a real good Xmas and New year
Best regards
Chris Scott |
Author: Dan Norder
Thursday, 19 December 2002 - 06:43 am | |
Chris,
Thanks. I have now also posted an adjusted and blown up image of the second coffin shape. I wish I could make out words... I keep getting the nagging feeling that I ought to be able to, but can't.
Dan
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Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 19 December 2002 - 11:40 am | |
Hi, Chris and Dan:
Yes the word is "horse" slaughterer. I have always thought that this is one of the more interesting letters. It is fascinating that it was in the police's hands before the Dear Boss letter that got so much publicity. It appears to be the first letter allegedly from the murderer if we discount, as we must, the hoax September 17 letter someone slipped into the PRO files. The crude writing and the semi-literacy shown by the writer, not an effectation, I believe, as in, by contrast, the Lusk and Openshaw letters, show how absurd Cornwell's contention is that Sickert could have written in all these styles of writing and levels of literary.
All the best
Chris |
