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** This is an archived, static copy of the Casebook messages boards dating from 1998 to 2003. These threads cannot be replied to here. If you want to participate in our current forums please go to https://forum.casebook.org **
The Sept. 17th Letter
Casebook Message Boards: Ripper Letters: General Discussion:
The Sept. 17th Letter
Author: alex chisholm
Monday, 30 April 2001 - 02:05 pm |        | Hi Caz
Just a quickie to assure you that the thought of plagiarism never for a moment crossed my mind.
According to my trusty computer, my bit on Punch was created on 6 December 1998, and would have been posted soon after that. As I recall, however, my musings were quickly eclipsed by many more pertinent and interesting contributions, so how Yaz remembered this is beyond me.
Anyway, as you have found, Punch offers a wealth of interesting snippets and I’m not so daft as to think I’m more capable of identifying these than anyone else. So no worries on my account – replace sad face with smiley.
Best Wishes
alex |
Author: Yazoo
Monday, 30 April 2001 - 05:03 pm | | Hey Caz and Alex:
There are many wise and wonderful and original thinkers on the Casebook, but the two of youse in my mind are bookends in terms of writing thoughtful, articulate, insightful, original posts. And since you both have become Internet friends and graciously kept this fool from wondering 'midst the daffodils many a time, the wonder is not how I could remember what you've written, but how I could remember so badly -- as I so frequently do.
Yaz
P.S., And shame on the both of ya fer fishin' so shamelessly fer compliments.
Grins! |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Monday, 30 April 2001 - 07:24 pm | | Dear Caroline,
I don't know when I can get around to it (unless
the remarkable Alex comes up with it again) but
I hope to look into Edward Glover's fate at
the 42nd Street Library on this coming weekend.
All I know now is that he was arrested in late
November 1888 for threatening Lord Sheffield.
We know (at least we have to accept) that the
young Marshall Hall handled the prosecution of
Glover after his arrest. I am hoping that the
Times Indices for 1889 will assist me looking up
the date and discription of the trial, and what
punishment was given erring Edward.
Curious: I wonder what behavior of his mother led
to her expulsion from the cottage on Sheffield's
land.
Jeff |
Author: Caroline Anne Morris
Tuesday, 01 May 2001 - 06:48 am | | Hi Alex, Yaz,
Thanks for the very kind words.
(I only arrived at the Casebook at the end of December 1998, so that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.)
Hi Jeff,
Perhaps we'll find that Teddy boy's 'mother' sat in a chair in the attic all day, in a daft wig, telling her son not to get involved with hussies. 
(God, I've got to go into the shower in a minute - I'm off to see my accountant and I want everything to look squeaky clean....)
Love,
Caz |
Author: David M. Radka
Tuesday, 01 May 2001 - 12:19 pm | | Madam,
As an accountant myself, how delighted I'd be if it were you who appeared at the office door as my next appointment.
David |
Author: Caroline Anne Morris
Tuesday, 01 May 2001 - 01:16 pm | | Thank you David, you're a gent - most of the time.
Change your name to Cohen and I'll be right there.
Love,
Caz |
Author: David M. Radka
Tuesday, 01 May 2001 - 04:39 pm | | Now here's really something that can be read a variety of ways. One wonders what's afoot under those red-blonde locks today.
If I changed my name to Cohen I'd be David Cohen. Being David Cohen has a certain meaning to the Ripperologist. You're looking for David Cohen, is that right? And you're looking to find him as an accountant as well? So this means when you visit your accountant, you're expecting to be treated as Jack the Ripper treated his victims? Have you got some sort of suppressed death wish or need for excitement, my dear? Hmmmm? |
Author: Caroline Anne Morris
Wednesday, 02 May 2001 - 04:11 am | | Hi David,
This is what reading people's minds can do.
I only made the David and Cohen connection after I posted, and it made me smile.
Cohen is the name of my friendly accountant, who is the only one I trust to handle my figurework with care. He has a delightful sense of humour too. If I ask him, "Have you been busy?", he replies, "Yes thanks."
On the other hand, perhaps you yourself are not busy enough, if your own thoughts are wandering to suppressed death wishes and need for excitement, not to mention red-blonde locks.
(Memo: Should I get my locks changed?) LOL
Lots of love,
Caz |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Sunday, 06 May 2001 - 01:25 am | | Dear Everyone,
I have to admit that I have had a very productive
and unproductive Saturday at the 42nd Street
Library. I did not find anything new on Edward
Glover, and I hope Alex will be kind enough to
explain to me how he found the article in The
Times about the threatening letters to Lord
Sheffield. I looked in the Times index for 1888,
and could not find reference under police, trials,
murders (for the Whitechapel murders), or Sheffield. I also found no references to Edward
Glover either - very odd. But from dealing with
the New York Times Indices for many years, I know
one has to keep reconsidering items and relooking
over the indices with new combinations of words
or ideas. It is very long and tedious, but usually rewarding.
But if I failed to find Glover and his persecution
of Lord Sheffield, I did find a welcome 21 year
old minx instead. And one with a peculiar sounding legal surname!
From the Times of October 22, 1888, Page 10, col.e:
"At the Bradford Borough Court on Saturday, a
respectable looking young woman, named Maria
Coroner, 21 years of age, employed in a mantlemaker's establishement, was brought up on
the charge of having "written certain letters
tending to cause a breach of the peace." These
letters, as stated by the chief constable, purported to be written by "Jack the Ripper." whose object in visiting Bradford, as was stated,
was to do a little business before starting for some other place on the same errand. She had written two letters of this character, as she
admitted when apprehended, one being addressed to the chief constable and the other to a local
newspaper. On searching the girl's lodging the police found copies of the letters. The prisoner excused her foolish conduct on the ground that "she had done it in a joke." She was stated to be
a very respectable young woman. The prisoner was
remanded until to-morrow, the Bench declining to
accept bail."
Also, starting on Tuesday, November 27, 1888, the
TIMES began accounts of the HAVANT MURDER. An
8 year old boy, Percy Knight Searle, was beaten
savagely along a road, with four large gashes on
his head. Another young boy, with the
name of Husband, saw him being attacked by
a man. The initial account said, "The general
opinion was at the onset that this was the work of
"Jack the Ripper," a letter read a few days since
and some writing on the shutter in Hanover-street,
Portsmouth giving some colour to this supposition.
A cooler consideration of the circumstances, however, would lead one to suppose that the horrible deed was not committed by a skilful hand." (p. 5, col.d)
Eventually, Robert Husband was arrested for the
murder, and was tried before Justice James Fitzjames Stephen at the Winchester Assizes.
Defended by Charles Mathews, Husband was acquitted. From what I read, I don't know if the
actual killer was ever found.
Jeff |
Author: Martin Fido
Sunday, 06 May 2001 - 06:09 am | | Jeff,
If using Palmer's Index to The Times, look under the victims' names in the 'Murders' section. I'm astonished that you didn't find the relevant articles. There are masses of them, and very quickly they come to be grouped together under a general title - but i can't remember what!
All the best
Martin F |
Author: Christopher T George
Sunday, 06 May 2001 - 10:45 am | | Hi, Jeff:
Your account of the Maria Coroner trial adds more than is in A to Z about her. It would be interesting to know which letters in particular she wrote so they can be "eliminated from our enquiries" into whether any could have been from the killer. I wonder if Evans and Skinner in their upcoming book have identified them? Possibly they are postmarked Bradford and that would be the telling point.
In addition, the Havant murder is known and is under investigation by a Portsmouth area man named, as I recall, Gavin Maidment. No doubt he has a book in the works. 
Sorry you could not find out anything more about Glover. Good luck with further research and keep us posted.
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Sunday, 06 May 2001 - 01:23 pm | | Dear Martin and Chris,
Actually, checking the victim's names in Palmer's
is one of the first things I do (as it is when
I use the New York Times Indices), but Sheffield
(the victim of Glover's threatening letters)
was not listed in the section of Palmer's for
October - December 1888, and Alex's quoted
article was in the Times for late October 1888.
I looked through the word "Police" to see who
was arrested and for what (which is where I
found the account of the oddly named Ms Coroner).
Nothing about Glover, whom the Star reported
arrested in late November 1888. I tried "Crimes"
to find any trials for each of them (and did not
find them listed). It is thoroughly possible I
passed their names without thinking about it, but
I reread the entries several times. I ended up
looking under "Murders" - "Whitechapel", which
was where I found the Havant Case, as well as
a case of a "Woman of Poplar" which I did not
have a chance to read (it is in late December 1888).
I also looked into the 1889 Palmer's for traces
of Mr. Glover, without any luck.
I am glad to hear the Havant Case will get some
close attention finally, and I hope Mr. Maidment
can solve it.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Author: Martin Fido
Sunday, 06 May 2001 - 06:42 pm | | I'm stuck, then, Jeff. I can't remember how I found the Ripper cases pretty easily via Palmer's 15 years ago. I do remember that the 'woman in Poplar' was Rose Mylett, and it was simply by investigating her and then following through everything in The Times that seemed to be following up that I finally resolved the mystery of 'Lizzie Davies' on the files and in Knight's book. On the other hand I completely missed the Havant case.
But with no access to Palmer's or any other Times index at present I can't do anything to refresh my memory.
All good wishes,
Martin |
Author: Tom Wescott
Sunday, 06 May 2001 - 09:14 pm | | Chris,
I don't believe Maria Coroner wrote any Ripper letters to the London police or press, therefore they wouldn't be in the files. At least that's a couple less red herrings!
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Author: alex chisholm
Sunday, 06 May 2001 - 11:47 pm | | Hi Jeff
The articles I posted were from the Daily Telegraph, 3 Nov. and the Star, 27 Nov. I don’t believe I mentioned the Times. In addition, I’m not sure if you mentioned which source gives the miscreant’s name as Glover, but both the Telegraph and Star refer to him, and his mother as Grover.
I hope that helps
Best Wishes
alex |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Saturday, 12 May 2001 - 12:42 am | | Dear Alex,
Thanks for straightening me out on the newspapers
and name (Grover, rather than Glover). Is there
any index for the Daily Telegram or the Star?
Jeff |
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