Author: Diana
Wednesday, 25 October 2000 - 06:16 pm |        |
| Do we know whether it was written in manuscript or cursive? |
Author: Jon
Wednesday, 25 October 2000 - 08:47 pm | |
Diana
"A good round schoolboy hand" is all we know about the style.
Nick
I scanned a page (Juwes) but it was barely readable unfortunately.
Regards, Jon |
Author: NickDanger
Thursday, 26 October 2000 - 01:48 am | |
Hi Jon and all,
I appreciate your efforts, Jon. I haven't even learned how to use my scanner yet. I'm such a Luddite.
Best regards,
Nick |
Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 26 October 2000 - 12:28 pm | |
Hi, Diana:
The graffito was written in script or copperplate handwriting. During my researches into the JtR letters I discovered that the copperplate form of writing seen in the seventeenth, eighteenth, and nineteenth centuries was described as a "round hand."
Chris George |
Author: Davidoz
Wednesday, 13 December 2000 - 10:04 pm | |
The Gouls of the "X" of ON ?
Adieu. |
Author: Simon Owen
Thursday, 14 December 2000 - 07:07 pm | |
| Was Juwes really Juives and therefore a reference to French Jews ? |
Author: Diana
Thursday, 14 December 2000 - 09:21 pm | |
| Arbie La Bruckman, a suspect in the JTR killings was a Moroccan and thus spoke French. He could easily have spelled it Juives, or in a misguided attempt to construct the English spelling he could have written Juwes. |
Author: David M. Radka
Thursday, 14 December 2000 - 10:41 pm | |
Diana,
Are you serious about Arbie, or just yanking our legs? Can we please have a brief outline of the points you consider in his favor as a candidate, if you are serious?
Thank you.
David |
Author: Simon Owen
Friday, 15 December 2000 - 02:42 pm | |
I think if we could solve the meaning of the graffiti we could solve the whole case , but obviously that is not going to be easy ; there is the possibility that it was written by someone other than the Ripper and has come into the case by accident. Thus it may have no bearing on the case at all. If it was written by the Ripper however then it must surely have a significant meaning ; that it might be a cryptic clue is suggested by the odd spelling of Jews and the odd phraseology.
Despite Diana's research I still have a feeling that the graffiti may be a quote from something , something old perhaps. Its possible some of the spellings have been modernised but the spelling of the word Jews has been left in an archaic rendering. Shakespeare or Milton maybe ? Or some more sinister anti-semitic work ?
I wonder is it a coincidence that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion were published only a year later , in 1889 ( I think I am correct here ) ? Is there a secret and earlier , maybe French protocol , that we know nothing of ( although I accept the Protocols are an obvious fake ). Could this be why Jews might have been rendered Juives ( presuming it was ) ? |
Author: David Barrat
Saturday, 30 December 2000 - 06:21 pm | |
I have a question which I will be interested if anyone can answer. I read the earlier posts on the subject of whether the word "Juwes" has a masonic connection. The discussion seemed to trail out inconclusively. I've also read the articles on this site relating to freemasonry.
My question is this: Is there a reference to "Juwes" being the collective name for Jubela, Jubelo & Jubelum in any book or document which pre-dates the publication of The Ripper File (1975)?
Alternatively, is there any source of any kind from before the 1970s which shows that "Juwes" has ever been a masonic term?
I look forward to any responses.
David |
Author: Davidoz
Saturday, 30 December 2000 - 09:42 pm | |
The Juwes of The Elders of Sionn. They have been around a v-e-r-y l-o-n-g t-i-m-e!
The key is turning children...eleven years, eleven months, eleven days, and of course...eleven HOURS and counting. You have been warned XXXXXXXXXXX |
Author: Simon Owen
Sunday, 31 December 2000 - 02:13 pm | |
David , I have looked for such a reference but as yet have not been able to find one ; generally most people accept now that this was a blind alley , including me. The word itself was dropped from Masonic ritual about 1814 apparently.
You might like to note though that there is a reference to this term as used by a Master Mason in the book " The Hiram Knight " by Knight and Lomas. |
Author: Davidoz
Sunday, 31 December 2000 - 03:33 pm | |
| I am not here to debate the minutiae of either philology or semantics. The authors you quote are ignorant of the secret things of this world.End. |
Author: Rotter
Sunday, 31 December 2000 - 03:59 pm | |
The Great Oz has spoken!
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain! |
Author: Davidoz
Sunday, 31 December 2000 - 05:08 pm | |
| I am but a voice crying in the wilderness...make straight a highway for my Lord! |
Author: Diana
Sunday, 31 December 2000 - 07:46 pm | |
| Who is your lord? |
Author: Warwick Parminter
Sunday, 31 December 2000 - 08:05 pm | |
Davidoz and Joseph,
I'm not going to TRY to insult you any more, it's pointless anyway. I think you two and me could get quite friendly-- if I knew what the hell you were talking about, can't you make it simpler? I'm not up on Greek mythology or the bible. Rick, and a Prosperous New Year to you both. (if thats the right thing to say) |
Author: Davidoz
Sunday, 31 December 2000 - 09:53 pm | |
Diana,
My Lord rides a pale horse and He is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many stars; and He has a name inscribed that no one knows but Himself. He is dressed in a garment dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is THE WORD.
From his mouth issues a sharp two-edged sword...on His robe and on his thigh He has a name inscribed,
King of kings and Lord of lords.
And He raise men from the dead. |
Author: Joseph
Monday, 01 January 2001 - 12:36 am | |
Hello Mr. Parminter,
My name does not appear as an author of a posting anywhere in this particular thread, so I am at a loss to understand why you chose to address me here.
I had engaged Davidoz in a light hearted, and jovial conversation in keeping with the Holiday spirit, but because of a few of the hints he/she was giving, I became earnestly interested in what he/she had to say. I believed he/she was offering a challenging, and unusual game of guess my suspect for the Whitechapel murderer. I have since had cause to reevaluate my understanding.
Like you, I'm becoming put off by the Jehovah's Witness approach to identifying Davidoz's suspect. If he/she begins to conduct him/her self more to my taste with his/her next few postings, I will continue to read them, if not, I will choose to ignore them.
I have read a number of your posts also, and judging from them, I agree that we, the three of us, could get along quite well if Davidoz decides to render unto the Lord what is the Lord's, and unto Jack what is Jack's, if you get my drift.
My apologies to you for not recognizing your insults as such, I thought you were joining the inane revelry.
Best Regards |
Author: Davidoz
Monday, 01 January 2001 - 07:32 am | |
Warwick,
So far so good. Discipline is the key to all intelligence gathering, and though you lack Method too, you have a perceptive eye and ...what brainy detectives call a good nose! A piece of helpful advice.
Create the room of varying ratios (software is now
available). Place in this room, bed, table, etc. allowing the necessary movement of door. This scenario requires a walk-space for at least two individuals. Then look to your data base on early camera tripod bases.Place cameraman...Joe Barnett!!!??? somewhere behind your consciousness. The peculiar problem of object,subject, and consciousness, is my oeuvre. So to speak. |
Author: Davidoz
Monday, 01 January 2001 - 08:27 am | |
| My Lord is known to the world as, "The King of The Juwes of 33 Degrees". Translators, like amateur sleuths, invariably, confuse their vowels with bowels. |
Author: Davidoz
Monday, 01 January 2001 - 10:31 am | |
He is the vine in season,
and Vran's oracular.
He is the bite of reason,
on Arthyr's sepulchre.
He traversed the sands of time-
The wilderness of Sin.
HE will bear the bladed-rhyme
Of Eriu's magic Fionn.
(HE,HE,He,He!) |
Author: Warwick Parminter
Monday, 01 January 2001 - 11:19 am | |
Davidoz,
If I'm reading you right, you are saying, stand where Barnet stood, at the --small window, the other window would still have curtains of some sort drawn across it anyway. If this is the way it was, and the larger window had not been removed to photograph the body before Barnett arrived on the scene,--I'd say it would be pretty difficult for him to identify the body as Mary's by hair and eyes, due to standing in his own light, the condition of the face,-- hacked, bloodied, forehead skinned and eyebrows cut off, at a distance of seven to eight feet, unless he already knew whose body it was. If as Leanne has already mentioned, the table piled with flesh could have obscured at least part of the face. Also, if Barnett could look at that mess, identify it as the woman "he loved", and not fall completely to pieces, then in my book he was capable of putting her there, I've seen no record of him collapsing in tears, or being helped from the scene in tears. In fact that same evening he was discovered by a reporter drinking in a pub in the company of others. The photograph that we study so much and try to make out features, would have been taken with a flashflare, the room wasn't that light, and don't forget, it would have been a dark dismal, November day.
For anyone who happens to be interested in Victorian/Edwardian photography, amongst other things, watch Gentleman's Relish, B.B.C.1 tonight, 9:20pm. Regards, Rick
Rick |
Author: Davidoz
Monday, 01 January 2001 - 11:42 am | |
Where is that Grailfinder when you want one? Same with a copper,eh? The dog that did'nt bark in the night?
Me thinks he has left the room...and rides fast to the snow clad forest and castle of Celydion. Too late. The Count (that elusive Pendragon) is no longer there. The castle fades in the morning light...
My work is nearly done now, George. If you don't know the question Joseph how can a man see the light? |
Author: Grailfinder
Monday, 01 January 2001 - 01:42 pm | |
| I'm here, reading your post, and a little shocked at your 'WORD's?. Remember my friend, the tale of the three wise monkeys? |
Author: David Barrat
Monday, 01 January 2001 - 01:55 pm | |
Simon - thanks for your helpful reply and thank you for taking the trouble to check the position.
Even if the term was dropped from Masonic ritual in 1814 I would still be interested to know if there is documentary evidence to show that it was in use before this.
I appreciate that this whole area probably leads down a blind (and dark!) alley but I think it would nevertheless be useful to establish whether the word "Juwes" has a specific meaning (masonic or otherwise).
Incidentally I think I've seen all the statements in support of the notion that "Juwes" was a masonic term which appear in published works from the 1970s-1990s (including The Hiram Key) but none of them for me provide a satisfactory source reference. I note that Kevin O'Donnell's "Jack the Ripper: Whitechapel Murders" (1997) states, at page 158, that "a mid nineteenth century masonic manual does use the term [Juwes]" which is identified as "A Manual of Freemasonry" by Richard Carlile. However no page reference is given and I couldn't find the term "Juwes" anywhere from my own (admittedly quick) search through the manual in the British Library. Are you able to shed any light on this?
David |
Author: Davidoz
Monday, 01 January 2001 - 03:14 pm | |
Sorry Grailfinder, my language was getting a little intemperate...especially with Joseph and the rest of this motley crew.I do admit to being in the spirit, somewhat, over the new year. I have said my farewell to George the Dragon...I really must go and feed my sheep.
Honi soit qui mal y pense. |
Author: Joseph
Monday, 01 January 2001 - 07:05 pm | |
To all Casebook readers,
Please allow Davidoz to go tend his/her sheep without any further dely; to keep him/her here any longer would unnecessarily deprive some village of its idiot. |
Author: Grailfinder
Monday, 01 January 2001 - 10:02 pm | |
"Your out of order Joseph"
You may not understand Davidoz/Miriam's clues to his theory, or his need to write in puzzles, but this does not give you the right to slag him off and call him an idiot.
His/Her post, make perfect sense to me, 'and I suspect' others who post here, as I believe many JtR hunters have found themselves at the foot of a path that they dare not tread for fear of ridicule.
Davidoz, has taken his/her (Middlesex?) step on that path and feels a need to share his findings with others in the way that she does.
Unconventional? maybe, but idiotic? I dont think so.
Silence, as the saying goes, is GOLDEN, but the Middlesex's thoughts are welcome (if only by myself) in this, and any other SECTION of the casebook boards. |
Author: Joseph
Tuesday, 02 January 2001 - 12:20 am | |
Grailfinder,
Out of order? I don't think so.
Perhaps if you broadened your reading to other threads where Davidoz and I interacted, you would realize that I was the first to respond in a friendly, and humorous manner to her when others here were doing less so.
My allusion to the village idiot was in response to the post directly above it.
Have you read that one? If not, I suggest you do, and then return here to explain your selective moral outrage; and please save the comments about childish tit-for-tat for someone else; I don't want to hear it. We are, collectively, not a motley crew, but why would you resent that; Davidoz has exempted you from the description. You must be someone special.
We have just gone through a peaceful period here, where people could post their thoughts and opinions without fear of reprisal from an elitist quarter. Davidoz enjoys the benefit of treading any path she pleases because some of the posters here refused to be abused without protest, but if she wishes to re-establish a new elitist hierarchy, forget about it. I can assure you the response to that abuse will always be the same as it was before. If your mentor feels herself intellectually superior to us motley types that's fine, keep it to yourself, silence is goldenfor everyone, but neither you or her should be surprised when behavior that is less then superior gathers a response that is similar in tone.
In another post, on another thread, I explained to Rick Parminter that I would be happy to not read Davidoz any further if her posts continued in a manner that were not consistent with my liking. I didn't try to organize a lynch mob, or some other means to drive her from the Casebook; I would simply look elsewhere for intellectual stimulation.
I agree with you that unconventional minds are welcome here; it is her non-convention that appealed to me in the first place, however, when non-convention is used as a means of social elevation, it loses it's novelty rather quickly. |
Author: Davidoz
Tuesday, 02 January 2001 - 06:53 am | |
Zapenath-Paneah,
Thou art truly inspired! I AM THE VILLAGE IDIOT.My last apology to you all.
Where is that key to the door?
PAX 1681 |
Author: Simon Owen
Tuesday, 02 January 2001 - 03:24 pm | |
Its an interesting theory Davidoz , but I am afraid I cannot agree with it !
Although you refuse to speculate on the reason for the murders , might I make a suggestion ? If your theory is correct , might the murders not have been committed as a kind of sacrifice to ensure that Bertie , the future Edward VII , might ascend the throne immediately as King ? In other words they were part of a black magic/pagan rite to ensure that Queen Victoria died ( she had celebrated 40 years on the throne the previous year ) and that he , Bertie ascended the throne as the New King ?
This ties in with three things : firstly the Goulston Street Graffitti. The Juwes would refer to the three murderers of Hiram Abif in Masonic legend ( the Prince being the chief Mason in the land at the time ? )who represented the Ripper murderers , and Hiram Abif , the Chief Architect , being Queen Victoria who was about to ' die horribly ' by magical means. The piece of Eddowes apron was cut off deliberately and left by the graffiti to show that (i) the words were written by the killer and ( ii ) that they had a Masonic context because of the APRON.
Secondly , the reason for the entrails of the appropriate victims being thrown over the wrong shoulder. They were duplicating Masonic killings - in a mirror image way !!! Thirdly the last killing was on November 9th - Bertie's birthday.
Mary Kelly was a special case , according to the theory of Sue and Andy Parlour Mary Kelly had had sexual relations with Bertie ( Mammoth Book of JTR , p.272 ) thus it may have been appropriate that she was the final sacrifice. Emma Smith died from peritonitis being brought on by being raped with a wooden object , this reminds me of the Vestal Virgins of Rome deflowering themselves on the wooden phallus of the idol of Dionyisus/Bacchus.
Its a fascinating possibility but surely its too far-fetched to be true - isn't it ? |
Author: Davidoz
Tuesday, 02 January 2001 - 08:29 pm | |
Simon,
I can only access this wonderful technology during certain hours-since the lady who owns it does not know. The village idiot-shepard is not supposed to have one. Verstehen?
Masonry, I dismiss as kinderspiel. Black magic, or the occult, may have historical validity. Paganism is rampant everywhere thesedays.
I myself depend on mathematical certainty. For example, I calculate the event known as 'Jack the Ripper'took an average of 350years to complete. It was 'finalised' 2 days ago! The complexity of mathematic and geometrical calculations is for others to confirm or prove otherwise. This website is for "JTR" only. Thirteen thousands years of human history as I discover, is a long time in the telling.
Primary source materials are many and multi-faceted. "Revelation" code by John the Divine together with the Phaistos Disc decoding,
and so many other source materials, require a massive data-base alone. Its hard for you to begin understanding the elementary propositions of "JTR" and the Orion Thesis (more to come!). Must go now. Regards to all. |
Author: Simon Owen
Saturday, 06 January 2001 - 06:41 pm | |
To David ( Barrat ) :
Hi David !
I have searched for it , but I have been unable to find a copy of the Carlile book and thus am unable to check your reference. Have you had time to re-read the book in the British museum ? If so ,and if you have found reference to the term ' Juwes ' having a Masonic context , are you able to quote the reference here ?
Simon |
Author: David Barrat
Sunday, 07 January 2001 - 10:58 am | |
Hello Simon. Carlile's Manual of Freemasonry is a very long book. I did spend a good hour searching for the word "Juwes" but I finally gave up and concluded that O'Donnell's book was incorrect. It would probably take a whole day to read the "Manual" through properly and I'm prepared to admit that I might have missed it.
I was rather hoping that a reader of these posts would be able to give me a page reference but I might be prepared to go back to the BL and read the Manual if I've got a free day to spare. The impression I got however was that Carlile never uses the word. It does make me wonder if Juwes was EVER a masonic term.
David |
Author: Joseph
Sunday, 07 January 2001 - 08:53 pm | |
| Davidoz, where you hiddin' dude? |
Author: Davidoz
Monday, 08 January 2001 - 06:52 am | |
| I'm in here Joseph.Its ruefully known in the barrios as a "Mexican stand-off". |
Author: Joseph
Monday, 08 January 2001 - 07:05 pm | |
Why do you find it necessary to speak in parables? |
Author: Joseph
Monday, 08 January 2001 - 08:24 pm | |
| Wie tut Gerhardt? |
Author: chris scott
Monday, 13 January 2003 - 08:45 pm | |
A learned Ripper?
Sorry to add fuel to the tortured Goulston street debate but one idea I have been looking at regarding the JUWES message... the wording (let alone the spelling) is so odd that I am wondering if it could be a garbled quote from some as yet unknown source.
The nearest I have found in my travels round the net
The Doctrine of Instituted Churches by Samuel Stoddard
Published 1700
"Men shall be blamed for nothing at the Day of Judgment..."
Anyone wanting to read the whole thing (and good luck!)
http://www.gospelcom.net/chi/HERITAGF/Issuenos/chl078.shtml |
Author: Trevor Robert Jones
Tuesday, 14 January 2003 - 12:22 pm | |
Hi Chris,
Having glanced at this link I can see why you wished me luck!!!
I think that in the absence of Photographic evidence of the Grafitto,we need to adopt a broader approach to the interpretation insofar as a comparison goes.
Has anyone any other examples of Double Negatives for example ?
Regards'
Trevor |
Author: Timsta
Wednesday, 15 January 2003 - 12:01 pm | |
Trevor:
Nah, I ain't got none.
Regards
Timsta |
Author: alex chisholm
Wednesday, 15 January 2003 - 03:30 pm | |
Hi Trevor
Further to Timsta’s eloquent example, in 1888 Punch’s resident refugees from the hoi polloi, Robert and ‘Arry let a few double negatives slip.
Punch, 4 August 1888, “Robert at the Cristial Pallis” – “after gitting in without not paying nothink.”
Punch, 8 September 1888, “Robert’s Excursion” – “he didn’t want not no pressing” and “if he didn’t earn his capital dinner by the way in which he emused all the City swells, nobody never did.”
Punch, 29 September 1888, “’Arry on Marriage” – “They ain’t in no dashed ‘urry to church themselves out of good fun.”
The Star, 1 October 1888 p. 3, “Scenes in the Street” – Toby, the Star man’s guide to ‘One-armed Liz,’ when asked for his ideas about the killer, replied: “It waren’t none of the kind that puts up at a six-penny doss.”
Now I hope nobody finds nothink of interest there.
Best Wishes
alex |
