Author: Ally
Friday, 22 February 2002 - 11:07 am |        |
| So what do you think..did she or didn't she? |
Author: stephen miller
Friday, 22 February 2002 - 11:46 am | |
I don't know but I read a book called "Lizzie didn't do It" I can't remember who by the book makes a good case for Andrew Borden being murdered before his wife If I remember correctly this theory was based on how quickly obese people digest food
this is another fantastic puzzler of a case and is worth some studying does anyone have any recommendations for books on this subject
from steve
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Author: Stewart P Evans
Friday, 22 February 2002 - 12:08 pm | |
Ally,
I have just about everything ever written on this case, including a copy of the 2,000 page trial transcript. Take it from me, there's no doubt she did it.
Stewart |
Author: Ally
Friday, 22 February 2002 - 12:23 pm | |
Oh but Stewart! Where's the fun in arguing it if I take it from you? Even if I agree with you ( and I am not saying I do, mind you) I may just have to be perverse.  . Now surely a sweet little thing like Miss Lizzie, couldn't have done such an awful thing. And how did she avoid getting blood on her?
Let's dance,
Ally |
Author: stephen miller
Friday, 22 February 2002 - 12:25 pm | |
Hi Ally and Stewart
I do lean towards Lizzie as the culprit the main reason for my doing so is the burning of the dress
is there a definitive account of the case rather than someone putting forward a theory
from steve
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Author: stephen miller
Friday, 22 February 2002 - 01:04 pm | |
Ally wasn't there a theory that she stripped naked during some kind of amnesia and then washed afterwards but this theory strikes out the importance of burning her dress
from steve
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Author: Stewart P Evans
Friday, 22 February 2002 - 01:15 pm | |
Stephen,
One of the best, and impartial, accounts of the case is Goodbye Lizzie Borden by [Judge] Robert Sullivan, Brattleboro, Vermont, The Stephen Greene Press 1974; and London, Chatto & Windus 1975.
But there are many, many good books on the case (just slap Lizzie Borden into an ABE search), and the rarest in my collection is a copy of The Fall River Tragedy by Edwin H. Porter, Fall River, George R. H. Buffinton Publisher, Press of J. D. Munroe 1893. It's a pristine copy. A facsimile of this book was published by Bob Flynn, Portland, ME. King Philip Publishing Co. 1985 in a limited edition of 1,000 copies.
Ally, now surely a sweet little thing like you wouldn't argue with me???
Best Wishes,
Stewart |
Author: John Patrick
Friday, 22 February 2002 - 03:27 pm | |
Mr. Evans
Might you be aware of a place I could loacate a book titled...Barnardo: As I knew him, by A. Neuman
I have searched many booksellers and libraries, the library in London is the only place I have located it. Much appreciation...
Sincerely John |
Author: Stewart P Evans
Friday, 22 February 2002 - 03:57 pm | |
John,
Sorry, no I don't know this one. Barnardo is not a particular area of interest for me, although I do have copies of Barnardo of Stepney by A. E. Williams, and Barnardo by Gillian Wagner.
Best Wishes,
Stewart |
Author: Jack Traisson
Friday, 22 February 2002 - 04:50 pm | |
Hi All,
Anyone interested in a great virtual tour of the Borden House in Fall River should look at this site:
http://www.halfmoon.org/borden/
(note -- some people have told me that they can't reach this address, but the link is still active.)
Excellent for those who do not know the layout of the Borden home. The floorplans are very detailed, and make it easier to envision how the family lived. It also may give you some new ideas on how Lizzie may have done it.
Cheers,
John |
Author: John Omlor
Friday, 22 February 2002 - 05:13 pm | |
John,
You probably already know this, but you can now also stay in the house, which has been faithfully restored to its original condition.
It's now a ghoulish sort of bed and breakfast for crime buffs, with replicas (and even some of the originals) of the furnishings and the wall coverings and artwork and everything -- all the trappings. You can sleep in the same room where Mrs. Borden was killed. You can sleep in Lizzie's room if you choose. And you can meet and chat with other guests in the living room where Mr. Borden's body was found. The couch looks just like the one in the original crime scene photo.
It's quite the tourist attraction, and the owner also gives you nightly talks about the case.
For a very "special" vacation,
--John |
Author: John Patrick
Friday, 22 February 2002 - 07:43 pm | |
Mr. Evans,
Thanks for your kind response. I'll keep looking!
Enjoy your day,
John |
Author: Jack Traisson
Saturday, 23 February 2002 - 02:46 am | |
Hi John (Omler),
You're quite right. I haven't stayed there but I admit that I ordered a keychain from the bed and breakfast giftshop. It's an axe with 'Lizzie' engraved on it. It's a fun, creepy little item.
If anyone wants to read the trial transcript, it is available on cd-rom.
Cheers,
John |
Author: stephen miller
Saturday, 23 February 2002 - 02:50 am | |
Hi Stewart thanks once again for the information on the books
Jack where can the cd rom be purchased?
from steve
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Author: Jack Traisson
Saturday, 23 February 2002 - 05:25 am | |
Hi Steve,
Here's the link. Just click on the gift shop.
They also sell a selection of books.
http://www.lizzie-borden.com/index.htm
Cheers,
John |
Author: stephen miller
Saturday, 23 February 2002 - 06:55 am | |
Jack Thank you for the info do you prefer Jack or John?
To All does the presence of the maid make it more difficult or easier for Lizzie to have done it(The maid was cleaning windows at some stage that day)could Lizzie have done the murders when she knew where the maid was working?
from steve
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Author: Eliza Cline
Wednesday, 25 September 2002 - 12:29 pm | |
Lizzie remains the best suspect but she was rightly acquitted--the case was not proved beyond reasonable doubt. People make a big deal about how she burned one of her dresses, but remember, she was seen immediately after the murders by her neighbor and the maid, and neither saw any blood on Lizzie whatsoever.
Also, the murder weapon was never found, which puzzles me, since Lizzie had a very small window of time to dispose of the weapon, and the police made a thorough search of the house. The hatchet found in the basement, which the prosecution tried to pass off as the murder weapon, had no blood or other forensic evidence on it. The hatchet was soaked overnight in a solution to try to extract any blood but there was nothing. The hatchet had crevices and it would have been impossible for Lizzie to clean it so thoroughly. |
Author: Richard P. Dewar
Wednesday, 25 September 2002 - 02:18 pm | |
Hi Eliza,
It is my view that Lizzie Borden should have been found guilty but for the erroneous rulings and instructions given by the judge.
As to the murder weapon, a hatchet was found on the premises that apparently had been chared clean. Heat very well could have removed the blood.
Lizzie obviously lied about her alibi. Please remember that her mother and father complained the previous day of sickness from the meal they ate - one that Lizze conspicuously avoided. This should be taken into consideration in combination with the fact that Lizzie had tried to purchase poison from a druggist the day before.
This was all information that the jury never heard. Had they, I think another verdict would have been rendered.
Regards,
Rich |
Author: Eliza Cline
Wednesday, 25 September 2002 - 10:42 pm | |
The hatchet was found rubbed in ashes, but I don't recall hearing that it had been heated. I saw pictures of it and the handle did not look charred.
Lizzie apparently often avoided breakfast with her parents because of her dislike of her stepmoter. Further, if you are implying that Lizzie tried to poison her parents, I remind you that no trace of poison was found in their bodies by the coroner.
I am not saying Lizzie is innocent, but I still don't think the mysteries of what happened to the murder weapon, or the lack of bloody clothes, have been solved. And though I think Lizzie may well have done it, I don't see how she did it. |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Thursday, 26 September 2002 - 12:36 pm | |
Greetings all:
I have always thought that Lizzie did not kill her parents, but that she knew who did and had conspired to do so.
There have been some very interesting (and implausible) theories regarding who did it, how, and why.
This would be another interesting topic for live chat session night!
Warm regards,
Divia |
Author: Richard P. Dewar
Thursday, 26 September 2002 - 04:18 pm | |
Hi Divia,
The most interesting theory that is consistent with your point of view is that Andrew Borden's son committed the killing.
Apparently, Borden had a son by another woman. When the son found out that Borden was not keeping him in the will, he murdered both Abby and Andrew.
In Lizzie's interrogation with the police there were some cryptic comments that suggested there was another Borden child.
The theory goes that Lizzie knew and encouraged the brother to commit the crime. She remained silent so as to not lose her inheritance and in the event she was found guilty she could then reveal the identity of the real killer.
Regards,
Rich |
Author: Esther Wilson
Friday, 27 September 2002 - 07:43 am | |
I don't know too much about the Lizzie Borden case so please bear with me and don't start throwing things at me yet ...but in a radio drama that I have it's conclusion was that her sister did it. Now, did Lizzie even have a sister?
Esther |
Author: Richard P. Dewar
Friday, 27 September 2002 - 09:10 am | |
Hi Esther,
Lizzie most definitely did have an older sister named Emma. By all accounts, she was shy, quiet and reserved while Lizzie was the more rebellious and rambunctious daughter.
On the day of the killings, Emma was out of town visiting a friend.
There have been those who suggested Emma's trip was an attempt to construct an alibi, that she secretly took a carriage home, murdered her father and stepmother, then fled back to her friend's house 15 miles away.
There is no evidence to support this contention - it is merely one of the dozens of theories surrounding the case.
Rich |
Author: stephen miller
Friday, 27 September 2002 - 11:11 am | |
Hi All not that it makes much difference but there is a theory that Andrew Borden was the first to be killed before his wife.
I tend to lean towards Lizzie doing it but I do think the presence of the maid would have hindered her.
all the best
steve |
Author: Esther Wilson
Saturday, 28 September 2002 - 09:11 am | |
Thanks for the info Rich, I don't feel as stupid as I did when asking the question. I'm going to have to read up more on the case and see what conclusions I can come to. Any ideas as to what the best books on the case are?
Esther |
