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** This is an archived, static copy of the Casebook messages boards dating from 1998 to 2003. These threads cannot be replied to here. If you want to participate in our current forums please go to https://forum.casebook.org **
Who Killed Kaitlyn Arquette?
Casebook Message Boards: Beyond Whitechapel - Other Crimes: Who Killed Kaitlyn Arquette?
Author: brad mcginnis
Saturday, 03 August 2002 - 12:30 am |        | Hi Divia and Scott,
This thread is very interesting but hard to read because of the whacked sizing. Forgive me if I missed it, but what was the caliber of the handgun used? Most city officers in Pa. carry a 15 shot Bereta 9mm semiautomatic. Some carry the 40 caliber auto. I think our State Police used the Colt Python 357 magnum but they may have updated. Were any ejected shells found at the scene?
In a similar vein in our area we 've had guys dress in security guard uniforms use a flashing lite (powered by the cigarette lighter and magneticly attatched to the car roof) To pull over women to meet them or worse. Fortunatly the guy doing this fooled no one and was picked up before he could do any harm. Maybe a similar M.O. occurred here. Using Scotts projections I'd say 5'7 would be the shortist police officer I've ever seen. Just a thought.......Brad. |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Saturday, 03 August 2002 - 01:22 am | | Dear Brad:
Sorry about the skew; my bad! That was caused by the pictures I posted previously. They have all been moved to the Picture file.
I wondered about ballistics too, but part of the problem is that (allegedly) the bullets were not recovered from Kait's body or her car (see Wednesday, 31 July 2002 - 12:46 pm post). Because of this, I am not certain if they could determine what the caliber of was used. I'm no expert, but perhaps a coroner would be able to determine from the wounds. Pretty suspicious, don't you think?
This is one of the reasons I started this thread; we need people to look at the case with fresh eyes. I would really appreciate anyone with forensic or investigative expertise to look at the information available and give opinions and/or observations.
Lois provided further information to me on 8/2:
"The side cutaway view of Kait's Ford Tempo with defect measurements, and the head wound and tilt diagram that I sent... didn't come from APD. They were the work of a crime scene technician from out-of-state, who created them based upon information in APD criminalistic reports. He also created the attached scene diagram, based upon an APD field sketch. APD did no diagrams of their own.
We have reason to believe that the field sketch is inaccurate. APD defined the location of the shooting as Lomas and John Street, because of a "large accumulation of broken glass" that they allegedly found there. Kait's car allegedly then traveled 700 feet, crossed the median, and came to rest against a pole. It was reportedly found with the automatic transmission in park, and one of her shoes was lying on the ground outside the closed door on the driver's side. However, there's nothing to document the existence of that big pile of glass. It is not in any of the scene photos, and nobody is on record as having actually seen it. Our P.I. contacted the Criminalistics supervisor in charge of Kait's scene, no longer with APD and now living out of state. He told her that he had not seen any pile of glass in the street and thought the "trail of glass" referred to in scene reports might just have been fragments and could not even have been determined to have come from a particular vehicle. We have since learned that Criminalistics arrived at the scene late, having come from a police shooting, and much of the information in their reports was given to them by others.
No, we don't have Kait's car. A note in Kait's case file states that no evidence hold was placed on the car, and it was hauled directly from the scene to a salvage yard. The car was released to us on the day of Kait's funeral, but police advised us not to claim it, because Kait's blood, vomit, and brains were all over the interior. At that point, we were still in shock and so mentally out-of-it that we did as they suggested and had the car scrapped. In retrospect, a stupid decision.
The situation with the car raises questions. When our P.I. talked to the Criminalistics supervisor, he refuted the information in Kait's case file, stating that the car went from the scene directly to the salvage yard. He had no explanation for the "No Evidence Hold" note, and said there had been a second-day work-up on the car, under lighted conditions, and that reports were sent to the records department and case detectives. Yet the records department denies having such reports, and case detectives deny that any work-up was done on the car except at the scene. After three years of Public Records Act requests, APD finally released to us what they allege to be all the scene photos and photos of Kait's car, and there are no photos from a second day work-up. All the photos are poor quality night shots, taken at the scene. The ones I sent via Divia are the best of the batch."
I will post a copy of the field sketch in the picture file for all to view.
I agree, I thought that a 5'7" man is a little on the short side but still average. But if you take the information that Scott gave, that is, "The killer is 5'7" tall ± 1 inch", 5'8" is pretty average. And 5'6" would be a little less average, but still in the ballpark. I come from a family of short people and 5'6" is pretty average for the males in my family.
Brad, I would really appreciate it if you would look at Kait's site and the Real Crimes site and give me your opinion. Be sure to check the arichives of the Updates page, too... some really interesting information there. However, we have some things at Casebook regarding Kait's murder that neither of those sites have, since I received permission to post those photographs and provide information from Lois herself. Reading a copy of the book, "Who Killed My Daughter?" would provide even more information, though it has yet to be updated with the more recent information. Lois is currently working on either a separate book or an update for the original.
Warm regards,
Divia
PS: I'll bake cookies for anyone that can provide more information... not a bribe, just a thank you! And trust me, it's worth it to bake a million cookies if it helps nail the people responsible for Kait's death. |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Sunday, 04 August 2002 - 04:35 am | | Dear Scott:
I put the photos of the car on ACDC Slide Show so that I could toggle back and forth on them, zoom, etc. I showed them to a friend of mine that has a lot more ballistics and forensic experience than I do. He made several observations:
1. If you zoom in on the bullet hole in the door frame, look at the angle of the hole and check out how the paint blasted away from the hole. It looks like the shot came from someone closer to the front of the car, not the back. In his opinion, it was not from someone backpedaling towards the rear and away.
2. There is no visible powder on the doorframe or window, no mottling on the molding between the frame and the rear backseat window. This would indicate that the shot came from further away, or while the car was still in motion (bullet goes into the door frame, powder blows away in the wind). The caliber is important in this... we need to find out what it was.
3. The picture is poor, but we zoomed in on the picture where you could see into the interior of the car. The only blood that was visible was on the steering wheel, and it looks like it is where a driver would naturally put their hand (10 o'clock position). If Kait was shot at close range, there would have been an explosion of blood and brain all over the dash in front of the passenger side of the vehicle. This is not visible, but as I said, the picture is poor, and it was taken at night. His opinion was that the shot probably came from further away, or from a weapon with lesser power, based on the lack of visible splatter.
Here is the scenario he came up with:
Kait decided to go to the police and tell them everything she knew about the Vietnamese. She tells the WRONG cop (one that is involved in some of the transactions). He tells her, okay but let's meet somewhere where no one knows that you are talking to a police officer (when he proposed this happening, it gave me a chill down my spine).
After leaving her parent's house, she goes and gives all the info to the cop (this would account for the missing three hours between leaving her parent's house and arriving at Sharon's) and goes to her friend's house. Perhaps the police officer saw the handwritten map that Sharon provided and knew that was where she was going.
The cop has already set up the killer(s) to intercept Kait. The shooter is in the VW, and there is a SECOND vehicle (possibly the gold Camaro seen earlier or the low rider; both are mentioned in the book). The shooter pulls up alongside Kait's car, *bang*bang*bang*. Kait probably tried to speed up and that is why one bullet hit the frame, the other two hit Kait. Kait is dazed, puts her hand to her head and back on the steering wheel (which explains why there is blood on the steering wheel where it is). The second vehicle taps Kait from behind, which pushes her in the direction of the pole (he believes that there is some accuracy to the field sketch, that the vehicle probably traveled in a straight line towards the pole instead of her going off course because she turned the wheel when shot).
After hitting the pole, Kait puts the car in park on reflex; she is rattled but her body still goes through the motions.
Another police officer (or perhaps the original one) in uniform goes to the car to check to see if she is dead. He opens the car door and Kait's shoe falls out. This matches with the eyewitness that saw a cop at the car with the door open, and the marked car at the scene). He decides that since she is bleeding heavily, seriously wounded, she won't survive it... so he closes the door and leaves. If she didn't appear to be very nearly dead, he would have taken that opportunity to finish the job. He might have actually taken that moment to push her over onto her side (since the eyewitness saw Kait's "bloody blonde hair").
Officer Merriman arrives, he was in an unmarked vehicle and plainclothes, so he was NOT the cop that the eyewitness saw.
I am not saying you are wrong, Scott... I was just able to talk my friend in coming over tonight to look at the evidence that I had at hand for his opinion. Well... to get his opinion and, uh, other things too... but that's another story. We also had the advantage of zooming in on the pictures and looking a little more closely at the bullet hole.
Here are the questions that we need answers to:
1. What caliber weapon was used, or what type of bullet? He mentioned a *glaser slug*? I don't know what that is, but he said that if it was a glaser slug it would definitely be a cop. It was late and I was tired, so I might not have gotten the whole of the glaser slug thing. I'll probably have to ask him again.
2. What does the autopsy report say about Kait's head injuries? Did it disrupt the opposite side of her head? Is the report available? He used an analogy of a balloon around an eggshell and hurling a projectile at it. The impact would cause the other side of her head to bust as well. I think that this depends on the bullet and the distance, but as I said, I am tired and may not remember all the details.
3. What is the extent of the damage done to the front of the car? This would give a better indication of how fast the car was traveling on impact. He pointed out to me that VW Beetle vs. Ford Tempo=not enough power to a VW to run the Tempo off the road... but the Camaro might have done. That leads us to...
4. What is the extent of the damage done to the rear of the car? The Arquettes know that this damage was not on the car prior to the shooting. How hard was she hit from the rear? Just a tap? Or was she rammed?
5. How much splatter inside the vehicle? This kind of ties in with the autopsy... incidentally, he did state that it would make sense for someone to "backpedal" while shooting to escape splatter; it wasn't until he looked at the picture that he decided that perhaps she wasn't shot at close range.
One more thing: My friend thinks it makes sense that a cop pulled the trigger... if he was out on the shooting range shortly before or after the shooting, it would explain powder residue on his hands in case he was questioned.
Just so you know, I am going to send a copy of this post to Lois as well for their files.
I value your (and everyone's) input on this.
Warm regards,
Divia
PS: You need to prune your email, sweetie! I just tried to send you one and it bounced back because of exceeded storage allocation. |
Author: Scott E. Medine
Sunday, 04 August 2002 - 11:07 am | | There are several problems with the scenario proposed. One is that bullets fired at a moving vehicle from a moving vehicle are seldom accurate, even with the most accurate of shooters pulling the trigger. The shot group on the victim shows that her car was stationary as well as the shooter.
The lack of powder on the door is minor. I have worked many close range shootings where there was a lack of powder or not as much as would be expected. Lack of powder usually relates to EMS personnel working on the victim to the first officers on the scene handling the evidence before they realize what happened.
I also stick with my experience involving training officers in survivability and traffic stops in regards to the bullet hole. I have seen many holes just like this one. The purpose of the live fire exercises was first and foremost to train the officers but secondly to provide ballistic information from bullets impacting vehicles. This shot was fired from a cop pulling up a traffic stop position.
As I said, I’ll bet anybody my life on that one.
If I remember correctly, there were no exit wounds on Kait. Which again is not uncommon, depending on the caliber used and the type of ammunition. If the officer was smart he used a non-department issued weapon. This much planning i could not see him using anything but a non-department issued weapon.
As far as a VW bug causing enough damage to cause a Ford Tempo to loose control,. I’ve seen motorcycle on car impacts that generated enough kinetic force to force the car to change directions. The information needed to determine the amount of force generated by the two vehicles is the year of both vehicles ( this will give us the weight ), the distance Kait’s traveled after impact, weather conditions and all types of road surface her vehicle traveled across until coming to rest.
Peace,
Scott
PS It is the weekend, I try not to answer email on weekends, but *sigh* I’ll clean it out.
PPS. Correct me if I am wrong but the round fired into the door jam was recovered. Or how else would they have been able to find it in the backseat? |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Sunday, 04 August 2002 - 01:58 pm | | Hi Scott:
Thanks for answering! Lois had stated that "allegedly", none of the bullets were recovered from Kait or her car. See my post Wednesday, 31 July 2002 - 12:46 pm. Personally, I think it is suspect that not one of them (particularly the one from the car) was recovered. Also, I don't think they found it in the backseat; the diagram says it went into the frame (so I guess there is no exit hole on the opposite side of the frame). Where was it reported found in the backseat? You must have something that I don't have.
As far as the powder goes, I did ask him about that; could someone have wiped it off, etc. He told me that there is still sufficient road grime on the car and windows that indicate that it wasn't wiped down. I wasn't sure about this but he knows more about it than I do.
We walked through the scenario of "routine traffic stop", with me sitting in the car and him coming up to the window and how he would be backpedaling from the car with the gun pointed. I could see exactly what you were talking about, but he was concerned that the angle of the shot was wrong.
I think that if we videotaped a recreation of the shooting, using a "paintball" to mark where the shots would hit, would help. I'm not sure how it would skew the accuracy of the scenario, but it would help paint a picture of how the bullet hole got in the frame. We'd just need to find out what Kait's height was to judge how far up she had her seat (it looks like the seat is further back than I would have mine but it could have been moved to remove her from the car), and stage it in a similar Tempo.
Again, it's not that I doubted you or your abilities. That was just another interpretation of the facts available. I will let him know what you said.
Warm regards,
Divia
PS: Mmmmm.... those oatmeal cookies sure smell good! |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Sunday, 04 August 2002 - 02:13 pm | | Greetings all:
Here is more information from Lois:
On the Tempo, is the gear shift on the steering mount or to the side?
It was an automatic transmission.
Field reports (and subsequent interviews) state the engine of the victim's car was running, the lights were on, the driver's window was broken, the doors were closed but unlocked, the windows were in the rolled up position (conflicting statement from Officer Wallace, the second officer at the scene, that the passenger window was down). The victim was lying on her right side across both front bucket seats in almost a fetal position with her head against the right passenger door. A large quantity of blood was on the passenger seat, passenger floorboard and right rear floorboard. A large amount of shattered glass was found inside the vehicle on the seat, floor and on the console.
What was the time frame between her leaving the roadway and the police arriving at the scene
It was almost instantaneous. Judging from the time Kait left her friend's house, the short distance she was from the friend's house when she was shot, and the time that Detective Merriman called in an accident with no injuries, he found her within minutes. Officer Mary Ann Wallace was, then, dispatched and arrived within 40 seconds. Those two cops tell greatly conflicting stories.
Fingerprints become a problem. If no one but Kait's prints were found on the shifter then it can be argued that no one else touched the shifter.
Kait's prints were not found on the gear shift either.
The caliber is important in this... we need to find out what it was.
We don't know. The MI who performed the autopsy left the state before our P.I. could interview him. However, upon reviewing the autopsy report, a representative of the Medical Investigator told our P.I. that Kait's head wounds would have rendered her instantly incapacitated, unable to put the gearshift into park position or open the door to allow her shoe (a slip-on pump) to fall out. Although there were no exit wounds, reportedly no bullets were found in Kait's body, other than a few tiny fragments at the point of entry. The MI could not confirm the caliber of the bullets, because those fragments had not been weighed, nor were they described. Because the bullets shattered so totally, it was assumed that they were .22 caliber. OMI was at a disadvantage, as they were not called to the scene, and they were not given access to scene reports or scene photographs when performing the autopsy. The autopsy was assisted by information provided by the police officer attending the autopsy.
The bullet that struck the door frame was not found either, except for one small fragment (8 grain) which was recovered on the left rear door threshold. It wasn't large enough to identify the caliber. No spent casings were found in the area.
There was some discussion amoung the crime scene technicians about the hole in the door being made by a .35 or larger caliber bullet. But when they were told that the bullets that struck Kait's head were small caliber, they discarded that theory. There is no mention of that speculation in Kait's case file.
From an interview with a crime scene technician:
Q: "Any suspicion that it might not have happened at this location (Lomas and John St)?"
A: "The only indication that we had of where it occured was based on the glass. Other than for that, no."
That investigator never saw that glass himself; he was told that somebody else saw it. The existence of that alleged "large accumulation of glass," (that doesn't appear in photographs and that nobody remembers personally seeing), became the foundation for all the assumptions regarding the crime scene.
If Kait was shot at close range, there
would have been an explosion of blood and brain all over the dash
The MI who performed the autopsy testified that he could not state how far the gun was from the victim's head because the window was in between. He said he couldn't tell if the vehicles involved in the shooting were stopped or if they were moving.
What is the extent of the damage done to the front of the car?
Comparatively minor.
What is the extent of the damage done to the rear of the car?
There's no way to know, as there are no close-up photos of that damage in the night shots taken at the scene.
The second-day work-up is not on record as having taken place.
Lois |
Author: Ally
Sunday, 04 August 2002 - 05:24 pm | | Hi Divia,
The bullet hole in the back is reported on the diagram that you posted which shows the two shot's heights and driver's position. Did that diagram come from police files or from the Arquette's private investigation? |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Sunday, 04 August 2002 - 07:46 pm | | Dear Ally:
The diagrams and field sketch came from a crime scene investigator from out of state, and was based on the information from the APD report.
Divia |
Author: Ally
Sunday, 04 August 2002 - 08:35 pm | | Well color me confused. If the information came from the APD and that information included a recovered bullet, then how did they subsequently state that no bullet had been found?
Edited to add: I don't understand how Mrs. Duncan is saying there was no bullet recovered but she has info from her PI saying that one was and his/her information came from the PD files. Could you clarify this? |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Sunday, 04 August 2002 - 09:09 pm | | Dear Ally:
I know, I was a little confused too. But this is what Lois said about the bullet in the car:
The bullet that struck the door frame was not found either, except for one small fragment (8 grain) which was recovered on the left rear door threshold. It wasn't large enough to identify the caliber. No spent casings were found in the area.
So that is what was found, the fragment. The chart is a little misleading since it doesn't say "fragment".
Warm regards,
Divia
PS: Scott, my apologies. I read the diagram wrong. The bullet fragment was found inside the left rear door, on the floor, it did not go into the frame. |
Author: Scott E. Medine
Sunday, 04 August 2002 - 10:45 pm | | It is highly likely, Kait tried to exit the car after the accident. This is evidenced by the shoe, a slip on pump, being found at the scene. She could have opened the door after impact, swung her leg out of the car and started to get out of the vehicle when the officer fired the shots. Getting out of the vehicle in this manner, as some people do, exposes the side of her face, that was shot to the killer.
I think just where the shoe was found in conjunction to the car is important.
I also think it highly suspicious Kait's fingerprints were not on the gear shift lever.
Peace,
Scott |
Author: Scott E. Medine
Sunday, 04 August 2002 - 10:48 pm | | As far as the powder goes, I was not talking about detailing the car. Just because there is road grime on the car and the windows does not say that the powder was not wiped off the door jam.
Peace,
Scott |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Sunday, 04 August 2002 - 11:27 pm | | Hi Scott:
I understand, and I agree. I also thought that it was possible that any powder residue could have been wiped off. My friend thought otherwise. Basically, he read your response and said "we disagree" and left it at that. I just forwarded his observations.
However, I thought it more likely that the shoe fell out of the car when the first officer (the one seen by the eyewitness) opened the door. The eyewitness reported that there was an officer in uniform and the door was open. What do you think?
I also think that your scenario is plausible. That was my first thought before I found out about the eyewitness. Either way, I think it is pretty evident that "someone" opened the car door and "someone" closed it before the investigation started.
I am going to pull excerpts from my chat log with my friend and post some of his thoughts. I will forward them to Lois and copy you as well.
Warm regards,
Divia |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Sunday, 04 August 2002 - 11:42 pm | | Greetings all:
Per my discussion with my friend:
Okay... so do you think that the bullets of a .38 would shatter when hitting Kait? That was all that was found on her, fragments too small to identify
Not likely, unless prefragmented... i.e. the Glaser rounds
Ah... now I understand better what you were talking about. I will admit, I was tired when we had the discussion. I remember now
Right
Okay... but they would still penetrate the car?
very unlikely... they are strictly anti-personnel... designed to have very little penetration
So, it would have to be either two guns or different ammo from the same gun?
for wounds in her head and in the car? Yes
Okay, that's what we were trying to find out. Because the information that they have indicates that Kait was shot with a .22 caliber, too weak to leave the kind of hole in the car, but would shatter when shot into her head
yes
But the fragments were too small to identify properly, so they weren't sure about the caliber anyway
Right
I was thinking: is it possible that there were two shooters, one that shot at the car while it was moving and ran her off the road. Then the second shooter shot Kait
that is a possibility
Because the people reported hearing *4* shots, not just 3... the 4th was never accounted for
well... a miss would go *zing!*
zing?
fly away... and unless struck summat, be *gone*
Right... maybe that one could have been found if they had looked for it
ehhh... unless it struck something right there, no...
Well, there wasn't much space for it to go anywhere but perhaps into a building?
right
Possibly, it could still be there after all these years
yes
But if it were designed to fragment, or if it was a .22, there wouldn't be much left, would there?
nope
Thought so...What did you think of Scott's reply?
ehhh... obviously, we disagree
Yes, which is okay...
okay...
Anyway, it's just a few thoughts on the subject. I'll keep collecting as much info and opinions as I can.
Let me know what you think.
Warm regards,
Divia |
Author: Scott E. Medine
Monday, 05 August 2002 - 08:21 am | | The eyewitness just reported an open door and an officer and this is all he/she can be held to; unless, the witness says specifically, who opend the door.
As far as me commenting on the possibility of two weapons or two types of ammo used, I would have to see the autopsy reports and photos of the head wound. I have seen black talon rounds, anti-personal rounds, penetrate steel and then the victim. I guess your friend and I will have to agree to disagree. I stand by my 15 years of experience and 150 homicides investigated.
Peace,
Scott |
Author: Scott E. Medine
Monday, 05 August 2002 - 08:28 am | | I need to rephrase the first statement. It needs to read; the witness can only be held to what he/she saw. If all the witness saw was the open door then it states nothing as to who opened it. If they saw the officer open the door, then we have to ask was it opened post shooting or after the shooting?
I think the PI should have had the witness submit to hypnosis. It has been my experience that witnesses will usually remember far less than they actually saw, especially if their time and mind were occupied by other matters.
Peace,
Scott
P.S. And it is not too late to have the witness submit to hypnosis, of course this is if the witness agrees. |
Author: Scott E. Medine
Monday, 05 August 2002 - 09:28 am | | Damn Diva, this just gets better and f#&king better and better. Am I now to understand that blood was found in the passanger rear floor board?
This explains a lot and screws up a lot.
I have sent you and Ms. Duncan an e-mail regarding this.
Peace,
Scott |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Monday, 05 August 2002 - 12:23 pm | | Dear Scott:
Three of the four wheels appear to be up on the sidewalk, all but the right rear tire. This would cause the car to be tilted enough for any blood draining to collect in the rear floorboard behind the passenger seat since Kait's head was on the passenger seat, wouldn't it? Also, I remember reading in Who Killed My Daughter that there was blood on the street. I thought that this was probably caused by the blood draining and seeping through the passenger door. It looks like that is visible in the long shot of the car, too.
As to the eyewitness, I agree. The witness said that he/she saw an officer in uniform, the door open, and Kait upright but bleeding. When Merriman arrived, Kait was slumped over onto the passenger seat, the door was closed, and Merriman was in plainclothes. This means that the officer that the witness saw was not Merriman, and that someone closed the door before Merriman got there. It is unlikely that Kait closed the door herself; the coroner reported that she was rendered incapacitated immediately by her injuries. I thought it likely that the uniformed officer closed it, though that is just speculation.
It is frustrating to have so little to go on. We need a coroner's report, autopsy photos, and a detailed report (preferably with pictures) of the second-day work up of the car (which may or may not have taken place, gosh what a mess!).
I think it is pretty obvious that APD had no intention of seriously investigating this case. Otherwise, there would have been a more detailed report based on the second-day work up of the car, the car would have been held in evidence, and (I think) Merriman would have stayed at the scene to ensure that the scene was not tampered with in any way before the investigators got there.
By the way, I think that the second-day work up of the car probably took place and APD doesn't want anyone to have that information. It wouldn't surprise me if they lost it "accidentally on purpose".
Again, I'm not saying you are wrong, Scott. In fact, I stated to my friend that your experience is much more recent (you retired in 1998, correct?) than his, and you have lots of that experience. It was just another point of view to consider since I had the opportunity to bring his attention to it. And yes, he "agrees to disagree" as well.
There is one picture of Kait in the hospital, though I am not sure what you can gain from it. It is the last picture in her online photo album. However, one of her sisters saw the wounds when the doctors removed the bandages from Kait. I wonder if her observations would be helpful if we cannot get any other information on the wounds.
I sent a reply to you and Ms. Duncan via email.
Warm regards,
Divia |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Monday, 05 August 2002 - 12:33 pm | | Information from the Arquettes:
The following statements are extracted and/or condensed from the reports/interviews of the people at the crime scene:
APD VIOLENT CRIMES DETECTIVE RONALD MERRIMAN:
I passed by going west on Lomas, saw 2 cars in the opposite lane, one against a pole. Called in to see if an accident was reported. Was told no, did U-turn, and drove back east to the car. A man (later identified as Paul Apodaca) was standing next to the car. He said he "stopped to see what was going on." I looked in car window, saw woman sprawled with head against the passenger's door. I opened that door, blood gushed out. (Apodaca) did not come with me to the car. I called for rescue. Officer Wallace arrived within minutes, and I told her to get information from (Apodaca). I couldn't deal with him myself, because I had to stay with the victim. He didn't try to leave. I didn't talk to him at all. He had a car somewhere in the area. I believe somebody said it was a VW, but I don't remember him getting into it or driving away. Wallace obtained information from (Apodaca) and began securing the scene. Rescue arrived (identified in Merriman's report as Albq. Rescue R-4, with four males named as the crew). They worked from both sides of the car. The Fire Dept. noticed a bullet hole in the doorframe. The medical people found the victim had a puncture to the head, and we concluded she must have been shot. I stayed at the scene until Violent Crimes arrived.
APD OFFICER MARY ANN WALLACE:
I responded to a call of an accident with no injuries, to find Det. Merriman standing behind the red car, talking with a young man (later identified as Paul Apodaca), who I assumed was the driver, since there was no other car there. Merriman told me the driver was in the car, and he had already called rescue. Merriman, (Apodaca), and I approached the car together. Merriman opened the door, and blood was everywhere. (Apodaca) seemed excited by all the blood. His reaction bothered me. He said nervously, "I found her this way." The girl's injuries did not jibe with the damage to the car. I called my sergeant to report something wrong and went down the street to direct traffic, because I felt it was going to be a crime scene. I did not take information from (Apodaca), as Merriman told me he'd already done that. I did not see (Apodaca) leave. I did not see a VW bug. The ambulance arrived and pulled up behind the girl's car. (Note: This is where Merriman's car was alleged to have been parked. The ambulance people say they parked in the street in the lane next to the median.) When rescue arrived they determined
the victim was shot in the head.
PAUL APODACA (never interviewed by APD these statements are from an interview by private investigator Pat Caristo, who talked to him in jail, following his conviction for raping his 14-yr-old stepsister in order to be incarcerated with his brother, who is serving a life sentence for murder):
I was driving west in my VW bug, headed for a friend's house, when I saw the car against the pole. I thought it was an accident and pulled in on the north, driver's side, of the car, to prevent the rear of my own car from extending out into a traffic lane. I did not look into the red car. Another car pulled up from the west, and a male, plain clothes cop (Det. Merriman) got out and took my name and phone number. I never saw anyone else. I never spoke to any uniformed officer. I went with (Merriman) to the red car. He told me not to look, but I did and was grossed out. I drove off before anybody else arrived, and went around the corner to my friend, Lee Padilla's, house to get drugs. Lee's brother is a police officer. I stayed at Lee's house for half an hour. When I left, driving south on Broadway, I noticed an ambulance at the scene.
ALBQ. AMBULANCE CREW, BETTE CLARK AND KATHY BACA:
(Clark is now Bernalillo County Fire Chief, and Baca is an EMT with a helicopter crew at Sandia National Labs. At the time of these interviews, they had not seen each other for years. They were initially interviewed separately and then together. Their statements were in agreement.):
We received a traffic accident call and responded with lights and siren. We drove west on Lomas, looking for a car in the street, and passed the location where dispatch said it was. Nobody flagged us down. All we saw was a car in the eastbound lane, up against a pole next to a used car lot. So we made a U-turn and returned, parking the rig facing east in the westbound land of Lomas closest to the median. The area was deserted. There were no cars, other than the victim's. No police officers. No by-standers. NOBODY. It was so quiet it was eerie. If somebody had been there, we wouldn't have passed it by. (When told that Merriman, Wallace, and Apodaca all reported being there before the ambulance arrived) -- "They were THERE? They were all there BEFORE WE WERE? Then, they left before we got there, because there was nobody there." (When told Merriman's statement that he could not take information from Apodaca because he "had to stay with the victim") -- "He didn't stay with his victim. There was nobody there." (When told Wallace's statement that she went to direct traffic) -- "I don't remember her." "I don't either. There was no traffic to direct." The car doors were closed. The driver's window was not there, but we assumed it was rolled down. We approached the car from either side, (Kathy on the driver's side, Bette on the passenger's side), looked through the windows, and saw a woman sprawled across the seats. She was slumped over to the passenger's side. Kathy ran back to the ambulance to get equipment. Nobody was there to tell us what had happened. We couldn't figure it out. There was no real damage to the car, except some front-end damage from the pole. The windshield wasn't damaged. Yet the victim had massive head and facial trauma. Another ambulance crew and the Albq. Fire Dept. arrived. Someone helped us get the victim out of the car on a backboard. Kathy became aware of the bullet hole when she had her hands on the victim's head and felt the defect. The blood and vomit in the photos was not there when we arrived, or we would have stepped in it. Besides, it's too far from the car to have poured out spontaneously when the door was opened. The victim was puking when we removed her from the car, and the liquids must have spilled out then. During the short time we were at the scene, we never encountered anybody from the APD. We recall no police cars, although police might have arrived as we were leaving, because somebody asked us where we were going. At the hospital, we escorted the victim to the trauma room. As the transport team, we were responsible for writing up the report. We don't know why our report isn't part of the record. Everybody's report gets left at the ER, a copy for the patient's records, and then if it's something criminal, the PD or the lawyers can subpoena and get copies as well. We have never been interviewed in this case, either as the ambulance crew or as the first persons at the scene. The only reason we can imagine that our names aren't on the APD report is because we left with the victim before APD got there.
PATSY PADILLA (LEE PADILLA'S MOTHER), 10/18/25, interview with Pat Caristo:
Patsy was very familiar with Kait's case -- "The Vietnamese are the suspects." Paul Apodaca never mentioned to her that he was at the scene. Her son, Lee, tells her Apodaca never said anything to him either. She says her other son, Chris Padilla, is an undercover narcotics officer for APD. |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Monday, 05 August 2002 - 12:42 pm | | Greetings all:
I am inclined to believe the ambulance crew. Their mission is to save people's lives; they were concerned with Kait's welfare and had nothing to gain by lying.
I find it interesting that Apodaca never said anything about what he saw when he arrived at the Padilla house. I would think that would be one of the first things he would say, especially if he reacted so strongly.
I welcome further input.
Warm regards,
Divia |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Tuesday, 13 August 2002 - 05:15 pm | | In case anyone cares, I posted a copy of a map of the crime scene in the picture file.
Warm regards,
Divia |
Author: Kim Craddock
Tuesday, 13 August 2002 - 11:13 pm | | Hello. I'm new to this board, but have been following the case as Lois Duncan is one of my favorite authors.
Looking at the diagram of the shots, the first shot hit Kait in the cheek -- "God's fingerprint" is what it's called in her mom's book. Judging from the tilt of her head, she would have been beginning to get out of the car. The only reason I can think of that would cause her to open the door would be to talk to the person who rear-ended her. The car was in park, but she didn't shut it off.
The person was standing at the side of her door, and shot her as she was exiting; this would explain the shoe on the ground. Shot 1.
Kait slumps back into her car, but is still upright (a witness saw an open car door, bloody blonde hair and another person). After the witness passed through, the 2nd shot was fired.
How likely is it that the shooter placed Kait's leg in the car, pushed her over to the passenger side so she wouldn't be seen, (possibly) wiped the gear shift, shut the car door and walked away?
Her clothes would have been cut off at the ER, thereby destroying any (small) chance of fingerprint recovery.
I don't understand this:
Why would the gear shift be wiped clean? This is a very logical place for the driver's fingerprints/palmprint to be found.
Why didn't Paul Apodaca tell Lee and his mom about what he saw? He was obviously upset.
Where were Officers Merriman and Webster that they could arrive on the scene so quickly?
Why did they leave?
When did Merriman & Webster call in to dispatch?
Are records of the calls kept on file?
Was the dispatcher on duty questioned?
Just my thoughts. Thanks.
Kim |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Wednesday, 14 August 2002 - 12:44 am | | Dear Kim:
Good questions, which we are all wanting answers to.
I will forward your questions/comments to Lois; perhaps she has more information to share.
FYI:
1. I don't know if the gear shift was wiped or not, I only know that no prints were found. This could mean that they were unable to lift them because of the bodily fluids in the car, they were too smeared, or that the gear shift was wiped.
2. Scott made a pretty good argument about Kait remaining in the vehicle and I am not in a position to dispute his expert observations. Also, when Kait was shot, her shoe could have come off her foot at that time then when the door was opened it fell out then.
As far as the records of the calls to Dispatch, I don't know. The police may not have released that information. However, it would be interesting to read the logs of that night, wouldn't it?
3. I've been in a few car accidents *blush* and my first instinct has always been "put the car in park and shut off the engine". I thought that perhaps Kait was shot before she had the chance to turn the engine off. That's pure speculation on my part, of course, but I thought it made sense (about the only thing that does!)
Thanks for your input, Kim! I'll post any further information from Lois.
Warm regards,
Divia |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Sunday, 18 August 2002 - 11:41 pm | | Dear Kim:
Here is a response from Lois:
I don't understand this:
Why would the gear shift be wiped clean? This is a very logical place for the driver's fingerprints/palmprint to be found.
Why didn't Paul Apodaca tell Lee and his mom about what he saw? He was obviously upset.
Where were Officers Merriman and Webster that they could arrive on the scene so quickly?
Why did they leave?
Kim is asking some of the same questions we are -- questions that APD appears to be reluctant to answer.
When did Merriman & Webster call in to dispatch?
Are records of the calls kept on file?
Records of radio repsonses are kept on file with APD Radio, but when we ask for the logs we are given mixed answers (like 1989 was on a different system than today, that the radio room has been upgraded and moved to a new facility so the records are no longer available, that 1989 is too long ago, etc.).
Was the dispatcher on duty questioned?
We have no way of knowing who the dispatcher was.
Lois |
Author: Kim Craddock
Sunday, 01 September 2002 - 04:03 pm | | Dear Divia,
Thanks for your reply, and for forwarding Lois' reply also!
My brain is still orbiting Kait's body position when she was shot. When I said she was preparing to get out of the car, I meant that split second where you put your left foot out, and begin to shift your weight to it. If Kait was shot at this point, then the force of the bullet would have pushed her upper body back into the car and her leg would still be outside, preparing to get out. When her killer put her left leg back in the car and shut the door, the shoe was left outside.
I'm not disputing Scott either, but I wanted to make that clarification.
If I remember correctly, a Ford Tempo is a small car. I used to have a Metro (even smaller) and I had to tilt my head to get out without cracking my noggin on the frame.
Kait's car was in park, motor running. Divia, your post fender-bender instinct is correct. Put the car in park, shut off the engine.
This involved some split second timing.
Now, as for the dispatch/911 call, I keep having flashbacks to when Nicole Simpson was murdered... the 911 calls that she made after O.J. beat her up were played on national TV. Granted, the circumstances were different, but wouldn't the dispatch record that Merriman called still be in existence... SOMEWHERE?
I agree that APD has SOMETHING to hide.
I also wonder WHERE Kait was after she left her parents' house... she didn't drive straight to her friend's house. |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Monday, 02 September 2002 - 01:18 am | | Dear Kim:
Thanks for your continued interest in the case. This has become my unofficial mission in life, to help solve Kait's murder.
My brain is still orbiting Kait's body position when she was shot. When I said she was preparing to get out of the car, I meant that split second where you put your left foot out, and begin to shift your weight to it. If Kait was shot at this point, then the force of the bullet would have pushed her upper body back into the car and her leg would still be outside, preparing to get out. When her killer put her left leg back in the car and shut the door, the shoe was left outside.
Given the fact that the motor was still on gives me the impression that she did not get the chance to even think about exiting the car. As you agreed with me: "Kait's car was in park, motor running. Divia, your post fender-bender instinct is correct. Put the car in park, shut off the engine." Also, I may be wrong but the angle of the shots would not be consistent with her getting out of the car, and we only have the photograph of the bullet hole in Kait's car as evidence of where the shooter was located when he pulled the trigger.
*** NOTE *** I use "he" because we do not know who the shooter was. I will admit that there is every possibility that the shooter was female. Using the masculine is easier than typing he/she every single time.
I'm not disputing Scott either, but I wanted to make that clarification.
I understand this, and I am sure that Scott would also. Another friend of mine completely disagrees with Scott on this, but I'm siding with Scott's expertise (which reminds me, I forgot to put those cookies in the mail to him! Oh, my! He's going to think that I am so awful! I've got to bake another batch right away, as I fear that the original batch would be stale by now. How could I have forgotten!?!) Scott, if you are reading the boards... I'M SORRY!!!!! I'LL GET THEM TO YOU ASAP!!!!
Now, as for the dispatch/911 call, I keep having flashbacks to when Nicole Simpson was murdered... the 911 calls that she made after O.J. beat her up were played on national TV. Granted, the circumstances were different, but wouldn't the dispatch record that Merriman called still be in existence... SOMEWHERE?
Indeed... you have to remember though, that the call made was not to 911. It was made to APD Dispatch. APD's claims regarding the record are spelled out in Lois' message posted on the 18th of August. To play devil's advocate, I completely understand the quandry of switching to a different system. You tend to phase out the legacy system bit by bit until everything is switched to the new system completely. Also, if they kept everything that they ever said at Dispatch, they would need a storage facility the size of a football field (or bigger). They must have some kind of regulation of deleting old tapes. When I was an accountant, the records were kept in house for three years, sent to a storage facility for another 8 years, and then destroyed. I would not be surprised if this was the case with the call on that night in 1989. Unfortunately, by the time the Arquettes requested the information (after the time that they could have access to it; remember that they could not release all the information while the case was being investigated), too much time had elapsed. It's sad, it's tragic, but the truth.
I also wonder WHERE Kait was after she left her parents' house... she didn't drive straight to her friend's house.
Where indeed? That is the question that we have been trying to answer. There is a missing three hours. If you remember reading the book Who Killed My Daughter?, the old boyfriend named Rod that was mentioned was suspected as possibly meeting her that night (the one that Lois did not approve of). Rod contacted the family shortly after the book came out, and he was *not* with Kait that night. However, he was seeing her before she was killed. It is my understanding that he was not able to offer any further information regarding the shooting. Or, if he has, the Arquettes are keeping it under their hats.
If you haven't already, please visit Kait's website by clicking here for further information. However, at this point I think there may be more information posted here at Casebook than at Kait's site!
Please keep the comments coming, we've been a bit dry as of late. Scott's been working, hasn't posted and I haven't heard from him recently so I don't know if he's thought of anything else.
Oh, an anonymous poster at Kait's website stated that some of the people involved are now in Michigan. This is unconfirmed (from my side anyway, if the Arquettes found out more, they are keeping it to themselves) but would be interesting if they were able to get a confession out of one of them. However, something tells me that the devil will be skating to work the day any of them reveal any information about Kait's death.
Warm regards,
Divia |
Author: Kim Craddock
Sunday, 08 September 2002 - 02:32 pm | | Dear Divia,
I forgot... the window was UP, and was shattered, so the door had to have been shut.
Drat! Foiled again! :-)
I do follow the message board at Kait's website. That was how I found out about this one!
Did you ever send Scott his cookies?
Kim |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Monday, 09 September 2002 - 01:25 am | | Hi Kim:
Glad to hear that you did read Kait's website, and so glad you found us!
I've received emails from people that read Kait's site (apparently they tracked me through Casebook), thanking me for the work I'm doing here at Casebook for her case... I'm happy to do it for the Arquettes, and wish I could do more.
I will be baking this week, and sending Scott's cookies to him shortly. I just have to go get the raisins for him; I've run out.
To me, the bottom line is that the family needs closure. And what APD has offered as "the final chapter" to Kait's death is unacceptable. There is too much evidence that shows that this was more than "a random drive-by shooting". Perhaps it wasn't a conspiracy, but why wouldn't they try to arrest and convict the guilty persons responsible? I could even accept it if they just came out and said that they just don't have enough evidence... the Arquettes would happily hand over all the evidence that they have gathered to help convict the right people. But as we know, APD is not interested in looking at any more evidence.
I still think that there must be another way. Perhaps the report from the Air Force regarding the "suicide attempt" of Dung Nguyen holds more information? Or maybe the FBI could get involved since the Arquettes have information of drug trafficking across state lines and the car wreck scams. Hopefully, we will one day have an answer. After all, they were able to finally convict the Martha Moxley murderer.
Warm regards,
Divia |
Author: Kim Craddock
Saturday, 14 September 2002 - 05:50 pm | | Divia,
I'm still here! Work is keeping me busy; especially after the fiasco we had at school yesterday involving some sort of pills, 12-15 kids, and BAD reactions to the pills. The ambulance company was in & out of the building all day.
I agree that the Arquettes need some sort closure. It won't bring Kait back, but it will make their lives a lot easier. From what Lois has said in her book and on the message board, the FBI has to be "invited" into an investigation by the local police. APD has pretty much dropped Kait's file into the cold case box. I don't know if the car wreck scams were ever investigated by any sort of law-enforcement agency.
I wonder if they have asked the Air Force anything about the "suicide attempt"? I always thought it was strange that Dung, being a civilian, was allowed into military barracks. I've been on a military base and the furthest I got was to the commisary, and only because I was with a member.
I think that one day, there WILL be an answer, and the whole story will come forth, but it won't be for a long time.
Kim |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Saturday, 14 September 2002 - 08:04 pm | | Dear Kim:
I wonder if they have asked the Air Force anything about the "suicide attempt"? I always thought it was strange that Dung, being a civilian, was allowed into military barracks. I've been on a military base and the furthest I got was to the commisary, and only because I was with a member.
Actually, it is quite easy. A friend of mine was in the Navy, stationed up at Bethesda. She was a single NCO quartering in the "batchelor" NCO barracks. I used to spend the night up there every once in awhile. That is, days when I was too tired or otherwise incapacitated (yes, I've gotten drunk before). It isn't exactly allowed, but usually no one checks to see if you have anyone in your room.
My friend had one roommate; she spent several nights at her boyfriend's apartment a week, so it was never a problem for me to crash in her bed. If she had been there I would have crashed on the floor.
So you see, it wasn't that odd really. Lots of military people invite their friends to the barracks.
Unfortunately, Dung corroborated the suicide story (probably to protect himself from whoever it was that wanted Kait dead) so the Air Force did not investigate further.
Anyway, I will send an email to Lois asking clarification of the car insurance scams... perhaps she knows whether or not anyone investigated further.
Warm regards,
Divia |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Tuesday, 17 September 2002 - 12:54 pm | | Greetings all:
I received a response from Lois....
"From what Lois has said in her book and on the message board, the FBI has to be "invited" into an investigation by the local police. APD has pretty much dropped Kait's file into the cold case box. I don't know if the car wreck scams were ever investigated by any sort of law-enforcement agency."
Despite the fact that Kait's boyfriend confessed to APD about his personal involvement in the car wreck scams, implicated the "capper," Bao Tran, and stated that he knew of up to 20 other people in Albuquerque who were being transported to California to participate in the scams, no law enforcement agency has ever been interested enough to pursue this.
"I wonder if they have asked the Air Force anything about the "suicide attempt"? I always thought it was strange that Dung, being a civilian, was allowed into military barracks."
Our efforts to obtain information from the military have been roadblocked at every level (starting with Kirtland AFB, and proceeding up the ladder to the national headquarters of the OMI) by the statement that to divulge information about Dung Nguyen's alleged suicide attempt would be an invasion of his personal privacy.
"I've been on a military base and the furthest I got was to the commissary, and only because I was with a member."
From what we have been told by other residents of that dormitory, it was a crash pad for half the Vietnamese in Albuquerque.
...Thank you for your continued efforts to keep this going.
Lois
Additionally, I recently spoke with WTM about doing a Tuesday night chat about Kait's murder. I asked Lois if she would be interested in participating to answer questions and see what we have to say. If we can work it out, she would be willing to participate if we can work out the timing and technical aspects (i.e.: teach her how to use the chat room). So, I hope we can work this out... I'm sure it would make it much easier to ask her questions and bounce the ideas around.
Warm regards,
Divia |
Author: Kim Craddock
Saturday, 28 December 2002 - 01:12 pm | | Divia,
Happy Holidays to you! Is the board still active, or has everyone become busy with no time to spend in front of the computer?
2003 is just around the corner... will this be the year to solve the case?
Kim |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Tuesday, 31 December 2002 - 03:33 pm | | Dear Kim:
Hi! So sorry, I haven't been around lately. I suppose no one has much to contribute to this thread at this time. I would like to think that this case will be solved soon, and who knows? We know more about it now than we did just five years ago.
It was a good thing though, that I finally got my internet access up and running, just in time to see your post! Best wishes for the new year!
Warm regards,
Divia |
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