|
 |
 |
|
|
|
** This is an archived, static copy of the Casebook messages boards dating from 1998 to 2003. These threads cannot be replied to here. If you want to participate in our current forums please go to https://forum.casebook.org **
The Tsar and his family - killed at Ekaterinburg in July 1918 ? or rescued ?
Casebook Message Boards: Beyond Whitechapel - Other Crimes: The Tsar and his family - killed at Ekaterinburg in July 1918 ? or rescued ?
Author: Simon Owen
Friday, 31 May 2002 - 07:34 pm |        | Opening new thread.
The bones of 2 adults and 3 children were found in a swamp in Siberia , but were these bones really those of the Tsar Nicholas II , the Tsarina and 3 of their children ?
If they were , what happened to the two missing children Marie and Alexei ?
If they weren't - and the Russian Orthodox Church does not accept that they are genuine - then what really happened to the Romanovs ?
Any ideas or theories about this subject , please place them here ! |
Author: David Radka
Friday, 31 May 2002 - 08:58 pm | | Simon,
J-U-W-E is an anagram for T-S-A-R. Now do you know what happened?
David |
Author: David O'Flaherty
Friday, 31 May 2002 - 09:28 pm | | Hi, Simon
Have you read The Last Tsar? I don't have my copy handy, so I might be mistaken--but didn't they perform conclusive tests on the bones that proved they belong to the Imperial family? They also bore scorch marks and bayonet marks as well (I think). I remember something about Nicholas's teeth comparing favorably with one skull's.
Robert Massie also did a book on the bones, didn't he? I've really got to dig out my old books and go through them again, it's been some time since I've read them--I'm a little rusty.
I've no idea what happened to Marie and Alexei--but I don't believe they survived that night. Especially Alexei--can you see a hemophaeliac pulling through after being shot and stabbed? Especially with no Rasputin around to save him.
I didn't know about the Church's refusal to recognize the bones. On what grounds?
Glad you opened the thread. I love reading about the Romanovs.
Dave |
Author: Andy & Sue Parlour
Saturday, 01 June 2002 - 05:15 am | | Hello, re Czar talk.
In 1936 a cousin of my father Charles Parlour, married the daughter of a Russian immigrant, I do not know her first name but her surname was Muscovitch. Her family had escaped Russia when the witch hunt was on for White Russians. The story they bought with them re the Czar and his family was this: When the mock trial was held and the death sentence was passed on the royal family they were prepared to be shot. At the final minute the Red Russian firing squad refused to fire as they could not bring it upon themselves to kill Royal Russian Blood. It was members of the Polish Bolsheviks dressed in Russian uniform and who had fought alongside the Red Russians that executed the family, the Poles then slipped across the border and back into Poland. Bearing in mind where the Czar and his families remains were found and the rumour that no true Russian would commit such an atrocity on their own Royal family, this story could hold some truth.
Andy P. |
Author: Ally
Saturday, 01 June 2002 - 07:02 am | | | If I remember correctly one of the men who was involved in the assisnation reported that the bodies had originally been buried in a mine shaft and there was a failed attempt to destroy the bodies by tossing in a grenade (sketchy I am here). Anyway, it didn't work and information was leaking about where the bodies were hidden, so a couple of days later, to keep those who would recover the bodies from using them as a rally cry, he and another guy took the bodies from the mine shaft and took them out into the swamp. They burned two bodies, a male and a female (the man said at the time that he thought it was the maid that they were burning) and then because it took longer than expected, they decided to bury the rest. Most of his account matches with the condition of the skeletons and clues discovered in the mine shaft itself and the bodies have been proven to be those of the Tsars family by genetic comparison with their British cousins. So it is fairly certain what happened to the two children--their bodies were burned. |
Author: Ally
Saturday, 01 June 2002 - 07:11 am | | This is not what I read originally but it has the general idea:
http://www.colonize.com/p/a.php?a=n001001182 |
Author: Joseph
Saturday, 01 June 2002 - 02:04 pm | | Hello Ally,
The link in your message has been hi-jacked
and replaced by a questionnaire of some sort.
In any event, my understanding of the Russian
royal family's post mortem itinerary is this:
Their bodies were taken by flat bed truck from Ipatiev House, where their assassination
had taken place, to the Three Brothers Mine
a few miles away.
Yacov Yacovitch, the death squad commander,
had originally planed to burn the bodies, and dissolve the remaining detritus in sulfuric acid.
For some reason beyond my memory, he changed his mind, and had the lories take their bodies
to the site where they were eventually found.
The acid containers, four glass lined wooden casks, were found along with the bodies,
one cask in each corner of the plot where they were buried.
Genetic comparisons were made between the
relics, The Duke of Edinbrough (spelling),
Russian paternal cousins of the Czar, and
members of the Greek royal family,which
revealed DNA matches at 98% of the relative points.
A comparison with Anna Anderson's DNA,
the woman claiming to be Anastasia, proved negative. A former Polish foreign intelligence officer living in Canada, and claiming to be the Czarevitch was also tested; his results
were inconclusive.
Best regards
Joseph |
Author: Walter Timothy Mosley
Saturday, 01 June 2002 - 03:35 pm | | If you can locate a copy of Maples's "Dead Men Do Tell Tales", it has the complete story of the post-mortem Romanovs, complete with many photos taken during the forensic exam of the remains. One of the skulls, for example, is thought to be that of the Grand Duchess, the Tsar's wife, because it is of the correct age, etc., and also because it contains many thousands of dollars worth of gold and platinum crowns. The story of the actions by Yacovitch are likewise explained in detail.
To answer the original question, it is thought that two of the bodies were abandoned at the original disposal site, including that of Anastasia, which is why they were not discovered with the others. This is an excellent read for those who are smitten with "The Tsar of All the Russias".
WTM |
Author: David Radka
Saturday, 01 June 2002 - 04:45 pm | | Joseph,
You don't have your e-mail address in your profile. Please e-mail me and I'll respond to your question.
David |
Author: Scott E. Medine
Sunday, 02 June 2002 - 09:59 am | | Not ot mention that forensic anthropologist in both the UK and the US have reconstructed the skulls and facial features thus postively identifying Nicholas and his family.
Peace,
Scott |
|
|
|
|
