Author: stephen miller
Monday, 24 June 2002 - 01:43 pm |        |
Hi Guy As you will know Rob Woffinden alluded to a different sceneario
The gunman was there to persuade Michael Gregsten to finally leave Janet therefore making her available I am not mentioning the name of the supposed instigator of this but it would explain the alleged sighting of Hanratty outside of a London antique store and how the person who saw him knew he was the gunman this sighting happened shortly after the murder and before Hanratty was a suspect
all the best
steve
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Author: Walter Timothy Mosley
Sunday, 30 June 2002 - 07:01 am | |
Hanratty is a new listing on Find-a-Grave:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=6532293
The bio contains a lot of history and detail that enthusiasts of this thread should check out and verify.
WTM |
Author: Guy Hatton
Sunday, 30 June 2002 - 07:53 am | |
Thanks for that, Walter.
At first glance, there are at least a few exaggerations in the bio, eg:
It is by no means certain that Gregsten 'threw' the duffel bag at the gunman, though it may be that the killer thought he was going to.
Alphon described himself as a fascist in police interviews, but I have never seen any indication that he was actually a member of any fascist organisation. I'll have to check which organisation would be the most likely candidate to be branded 'the Nazi Party' in 1961.
Cheers
Guy |
Author: Guy Hatton
Monday, 01 July 2002 - 11:14 am | |
Well, I set myself a question, and the likely answer turns out be the National Socialist Movement. If I recall correctly, its leader Colin Jordan went on to be one of the founders of the National Front, who were the first Nazi scumbags I had personal experience of in the late '70s.
Cheers
Guy |
Author: Martin Fido
Tuesday, 02 July 2002 - 06:36 am | |
Wasn't Alphon too much of a loner to have actually joined anything quite so matey as Colin Jordan's party? (Jordan was a schoolmaster whose sacking, when his politics became known, shocked a lot of ant-Fascist Europeans who had always looked to Britain as a land of liberty which did not try to suppress men for their objectionable opinions. As one might, perhaps, expect from a schoolmaster-gauleiter, he went in for a certain amount of 'blood and soil' type Fascism, leading the boys in healthy camps in the country with lots of drilling but also lots of love of the homeland. I don't think Alphon, who seems rather an urban creep, would have liked that).
All the best,
Martin F |
Author: Martin Fido
Tuesday, 02 July 2002 - 06:39 am | |
PS - By "the boys" I mean adult men members of his party. It was agreed that Jordan kept his politics firmly and professionally right out of the classroom - otherwise, of course, his sacking could have been justified.
All the best,
Martin F |
Author: Guy Hatton
Thursday, 04 July 2002 - 07:16 am | |
Martin -
I have that same impression of Alphon, so strengthening my feeling that his self-characterisation as a fascist does not mean that he would necessarily join an organisation such as the NSM.
Cheers
Guy |
Author: Guy Hatton
Thursday, 04 July 2002 - 07:19 am | |
| Presumably, then, Jordan wasn't 'drilling the boys' in the classroom, if you'll pardon the expression? |
Author: Guy Hatton
Thursday, 04 July 2002 - 08:35 am | |
Further research throws up the information that the National Socialist Movement didn't exist until April 20 1962, so even if Alphon had been attracted to any fascist organisation, it wouldn't have been that one. The forerunner of the NSM apparently was called, like today's principal British neo-Nazi group, the British National Party, and was lead by Jordan, Andrew Fountaine and John Edward Bean.
It seems that Jordan is still spewing racist filth from his address in Pateley Bridge, North Yorkshire, but he's now 78 years old and has a serious heart condition, so with any luck won't be with us much longer. |
Author: Chris Phillips
Sunday, 12 January 2003 - 08:56 am | |
If anyone is interested in reading the judgment in Hanratty's appeal, it is on the Court Service website here
(warning - it's very long - a couple of hours' worth of reading)
The DNA evidence is discussed in sections 106-128. A number of the points discussed above are dealt with. The possibility of contamination does seem very much more remote than suggested by some statements that I've heard in the past (e.g. that all the exhibits were jumbled together for production at the trial - clearly nothing like that happened).
Having been impressed by the alibi evidence in Foot's and Woffinden's books - not so much the Rhyl evidence as the evidence that Hanratty visited the sweet shop in Liverpool the afternoon preceding the murder - I was surprised by the DNA evidence, but I think it has to be accepted as decisive.
But there are so many bizarre coincidences associated with the case that it's difficult to avoid the impression that there was a lot more to it than meets the eye.
And it would be nice to have some idea what Hanratty was doing at Dorney Reach. |
Author: Guy Hatton
Monday, 13 January 2003 - 04:37 am | |
Chris -
Thanks for the link. I'll be looking through it as soon as I get some free time!
Cheers
Guy |
Author: Linda Stratmann
Friday, 17 January 2003 - 05:33 pm | |
Hallo
Has anyone read "Shadows of Deadman's Hill" by Leonard Miller (Zoilus Press, 2001). It's not a well-known book but I thought it very interesting. It's the first one published since the DNA evidence and as far as I know the first book on the case not to assume Hanratty was innocent. It's well worth a read.
Linda |
Author: stephen miller
Tuesday, 04 February 2003 - 12:22 pm | |
Hi Linda I have recently finished reading the book you mentioned and thoroughly enjoyed it
I do feel however that the author could have spent less time criticising Bob Woffinden & Paul Foot for their previous publications. That said Leonard Miller does try to get behind the character of Hanratty and offer up explanations as to why he was in Dorney Reach and for the car journey which occured before the murder of Michael Gregsten.
Also he briefly mentions a sceneario whereby Valerie Storie passed the duffel bag to Hanratty and not Michael Gregsten which I found quite interesting - however it does not really bear any significance as to the crime itself.
All in all the book was well worth buying and to someone like myself who up until the DNA evidence came to light believed in Hanratty's innocence it did throw up some answers to quite a few questions
thanks for the above post and best wishes
steve |
