Author: Julian
Thursday, 20 May 1999 - 06:54 pm |        |
G'day Caz, everyone,
Sorry Caz, I'm all Monte'd out at the moment. Even my club has introduced a new rule for me which says I'm not allowed in unless I keep ALL my clothes on.
Jules |
Author: Jon Smyth
Monday, 14 June 1999 - 07:55 am | |
The Jews are not the men to be blamed for nothing
(The Jews are not the men to be blamed for Catherine)
For anyone who beleives that Jack was a Policeman, consider this......
Only a Policeman knew that she gave the name 'nothing' when detained at Bishopsgate. !!
(Yep ! ...I'm having a slow day)
:-)
Jon |
Author: Christopher George
Monday, 14 June 1999 - 09:42 am | |
Hi, Jon:
I was interested in your (probably) light-hearted linking of the Eddowes murder with the graffito. I had always thought if there is any sort of link between the Goulston Street graffito and the Whitechapel murders, it was with the killing of Elizabeth Stride outside the Jewish socialist club. Indeed you are right that, as related in "A to Z," after being found drunk and disorderly outside 29 Aldgate High Street, Eddowes was taken to Bishopsgate Police Station, where she gave her name as "Nothing" before being locked in a cell by Station Sergeant James George Byfield around 8:45 p.m. on September 29, 1888.
Just providing a bit more to brighten up your slow day, Jon. Just for jolly as it were. Ha ha
Chris George |
Author: Caz
Monday, 14 June 1999 - 04:53 pm | |
Hey Jon!
S'funny you should say that about the graffito 'nothing' possibly referring to Catharine's Mrs Nobody-type alias.
I already had that down a few weeks back as one of the things the ripper may have asked Eddowes to do that night, ie call herself 'Nothing'. It kinda ties in, doesn't it?
Love,
Caz Nobody (diary to be published one day?....:-)) |
Author: RED DEMON
Tuesday, 15 June 1999 - 02:41 pm | |
Hello All!
That is an extremely interesting point, Jon. And let's not forget the mysterious letter writer who knew of psychic Robert Lees' involvement with the case before it had been made public. I don't believe it was a policeman, but it could have been someone in the know. Any ideas? Until then...
Yours truly,
RED DEMON |
Author: Jon Smyth
Tuesday, 15 June 1999 - 05:09 pm | |
Which mysterious letter is this RED ?
There is a photo of a letter in Pam Balls book, commonly refered to as the 'Lees' letter, is this the one you refer to ?
Well, Stewart Evans should be the one to tell you this, but (are you sitting down?)
The word may not be 'Lees' after all.
There's a very good possibility that it say's something else.
But I would prefer Stewart to be the one to tell you. This was his 'find', not mine.
Regards, Jon |
Author: RED DEMON
Wednesday, 16 June 1999 - 02:56 am | |
Hello Jon!
Really? I'd wondered myself about that. I'd wondered if it could say 'leads' or 'leeds'. But everyone else seemed so positive it was Lees, who was I to question...I'd like to know more about this. Perhaps I'll just ask Stewart himself. Thanks for the info. Until next time...
Yours truly,
RED DEMON |
Author: Caz
Wednesday, 16 June 1999 - 08:17 am | |
Hi All,
I have looked for a reference to Robert Lees in the autobiog of my own suspect, Weedon Grossmith, as I knew he was well into psychic stuff, seances etc, and may well have known him, or of him. No luck so far. All I've found is a recollection of one of his own 'spooky' experiences on a February night in 1894. Hope you don't mind if I recount it here as an interesting aside?
Weedon, and a friend called Arthur Law, heard a carriage and pair of horses approaching them one night, so they drew right back into the hedge for safety. The sounds of wheels and horses' feet became very loud and close upon them, then passed on and died away. No sign of either carriage or horses!
Poeple they asked later said that "something odd" had happened there at "some time or another".
Oh well, I'll plod on. Do we know if Robert Lees was fairly well-known in London before his ripper involvement?
And what else could we make of the phrase, '....with all your "Lees" and with all your blue bottles.'?
It sounds like the writer might have used the speech marks to suggest a play on the words Lees (capital L) and leads, as in police info.
Any other ideas?
Love,
Caz |
Author: Jon Smyth
Wednesday, 16 June 1999 - 11:29 am | |
Caz
Speech marks can also denote an abreviation.
eg: "Docs" for Doctors.
You can, no doubt guess what 'bluebottles' means, then to make sense of the statement we must find a word associated with the meaning of 'bluebottles' but might look like 'Lees' when scrawled in handwriting.
Jon |
Author: Christopher George
Wednesday, 16 June 1999 - 11:55 am | |
Hi Caz and Red:
I am going to "blow the gaff" on the so-called "Lees" letter received at Scotland Yard on July 25, 1889, since Grey Hunter (Stewart Evans), Jon Smyth, and I have discussed the letter publicly in the chat room, so it is hardly a secret. And we must credit Stewart with the revised reading of the letter. It turns out that the wording does NOT read
"Dear Boss
You have not caught me yet you see, with all your cunning, with all your 'Lees' with all your blue bottles. . . "
The true reading of the beginning of this letter is
"Dear Boss
You have not caught me yet you see, with all your cunning, with all your 'tecs' & with all your blue bottles. . . "
[note also missing "&" from previous printings of this letter]
That is, "tecs" for detectives, i.e., the writer means plainclothes detectives and uniformed constables. That it is "tecs" is plainly shown by comparison with how the writer makes a lower case "t" elsewhere. This letter was first quoted by Stephen Knight, although he gives only this one sentence followed by the signature "Jack the Ripper" and not the whole letter which is much longer (some researcher!). This brings up the thought that Knight's misreading of the letter may have been a deliberate misquotation of the letter to bolster his Royal theory. Could that be??? Nah!
"A to Z" gives almost the whole letter except for the final page, and I will post that once I am home tonight because it is quite interesting. Stewart Evans kindly supplied me with a copy of the entire letter and, as stated, has made the corrected reading of the letter which has misled researchers for so many years. In other words, there is no evidence that Lees is mentioned in the letters and this one bogus mention of Robert James Lees is as fallacious as the rest of Stephen Knight's tottering theory.
Chris George |
Author: Joseph
Wednesday, 16 June 1999 - 01:52 pm | |
Hello Mr. George,
Would you do me the courtesy of replying to my post of June 14, at 9:43pm.
If it isn't to much trouble, please reply at the
Who's on First page.
Thank you for your time.
Joseph |
Author: Christopher George
Wednesday, 16 June 1999 - 02:51 pm | |
Hiya, Joseph:
The post of June 14 that you wanted me to respond to is on the "Red Demon's Domain" board NOT on the "Who's on First" page, and as requested, I have responded to you in full, with interest, just for jolly. :-)
Chris George |
Author: RED DEMON
Thursday, 17 June 1999 - 04:35 am | |
Hello All!
Thank you Chris for the wonderful information on the letter. That seems more probable. Apparently, I didn't make myself clear to Joseph, 'ey? Until next time...
Yours truly,
RED DEMON |
Author: Jon Smyth
Thursday, 17 June 1999 - 06:06 am | |
Well done Chris (for blowing the gaff)
Remind me not to play 'hide & seek' with you !!!
:-)
Jon |
Author: Caz
Thursday, 17 June 1999 - 06:46 pm | |
Hi All,
Chris! Why did ya have to spoil it for me and Jon? You gave him 26 minutes, then waded in with the full explanation, so I never got the chance of working it out by meself!
Jon, you overdosed on the 'clues' mate. You probably didn't need the "Docs" one 'cause I'd already guessed what the bluebottles were :-)
So, thanks to Stewart for his 'tective work!
Love,
Caz |
Author: Jon Smyth
Friday, 18 June 1999 - 06:51 am | |
Caz, & all
There's very little doubt about it, I contacted Stewart about a contemporary usage of the word "tecs" in Smiths memoirs, 'The Lighter side of my Official Life'
In this he refers to a letter he received anon. and refers to the sender being causious of the "tecs" and in the phrasing he is no doubt meaning Detectives.
But I pointed out to Stewart that if Smith is quoting "tecs" from his letter then we have a usage date of 4-5 Oct 1888 (date of Anon. letter)
But if he is not quoting verbatim, but using his own terminology, then we have a usage date of a little before 1910 (publication date of his memoirs).
Regards, Jon |
Author: Christopher George
Friday, 18 June 1999 - 07:27 am | |
Hi, Caz and Jon:
Actually, Jon put up his post while I was still composing mine so I did not intentionally spoil the fun.
"Here's another little clue for you all. . ."
That is a line (or near to it :-)), you may recall, from "Glass Onion" by the Beatles, on the "White Album." The "Cast Iron Shore" another clue mentioned in that song is just up the Mersey from the Maybricks' home Battlecrease Mansion on Riversdale Road. A coincidence? I think not! ha ha :-)
Hope you all you 'tecs' have a very fine weekend. I will try to remember to post over the weekend the final words from the Jack the Ripper letter received July 25, 1889, that I promised to post. (Promises! Promises!)
Chris George |
Author: D. Radka
Friday, 18 June 1999 - 01:35 pm | |
We told you 'bout the Fool on the Hill--
I tell you man he livin' there still!
Well here's another place you can be--
Listen to me!
Fixin' the hole in the ocean.
Tryin' to make a dovetail joint, yeah.
Lookin' through a glass onion.
Lookin' through the bent back two lips,
To see how the other half lives,
Lookin' through a glass onion.
Standin' on the Cast Iron Shore yeah.
Lady Madonna tryin' t'make ends meet yeah.
Lookin' through a glass onion. |
Author: Jon Smyth
Friday, 18 June 1999 - 07:27 pm | |
No-one spotted my deliberate mistake of June 18th.
Smiths memoirs AS YOU SHOULD ALL BE WELL AWARE !!!
was called 'From Constable to Commissioner'
You failed !!!
:-) Jon |
Author: RED DEMON
Saturday, 19 June 1999 - 02:37 pm | |
Hello Jon,
Deliberate mistake? Yeah right, Jon...Nice cover. Ha ha.
Yours truly,
RED DEMON |
