Author: David O'Flaherty
Wednesday, 20 November 2002 - 02:51 pm |        |
I don't know if this show will air across the country at the same time, but tonight at 7 pm central (at least in the Nashville area), PBS will broadcast "Secrets of the Dead: Titanic's Ghosts." Since the show is about tracing Titanic victims thru DNA, I imagine Eino Viljami Panula will be the focus of the program.
However, since there's been discussion of whether or not it might be possible to extract DNA from Ripper victims, others might have an interest in watching and see what's been done in other cases.
So check your listings. If the show isn't airing in your part of the world, I suggest you scoot on down south and we'll make a party of it! 
Dave |
Author: Peter Wood
Wednesday, 20 November 2002 - 03:10 pm | |
Ripperolo "gits", yes I've come across a few of them.
Hiya Paula
Think the baby thing was just never substantiated, maybe someone will speculate that Jacky took the foetus? But then he'd have had to take all the stuff that goes with it, too.
Eric Burden? The animals? No idea, but Eric Cantona is from France, and Leicester City are a bunch of animals, if that helps.
Duran Duran are from Birmingham, by the way.
Peter |
Author: Matti Kurumaa
Wednesday, 20 November 2002 - 03:46 pm | |
Heya Peter
Well I realised I made a bad mistake writing the 'gits' - but all was lost in a part of ei second - it was too late when pressed too eagerly the send button to Casebook for the first time in mi life with tremblin middle finger.
But what does 'gits' mean - could'nt find it in my
uroword translator ?
Thanks David for info of Titanic Ghosts. How the hell could one get ones hands into that progamme when living here under the Northern star ?
Brr
Matti |
Author: Blue Violet
Wednesday, 20 November 2002 - 03:49 pm | |
Hi Matti. It's cool to see other new people here too. Everybody seems so friendly. And you're right, little Eino was from Finland (my mistake).
And speaking of the Titanic, I read somewhere the other day that the lookout who first spotted the iceberg was brought up in a Dr. Barnado Home. Out of curiosity, does anyone know how many children's shelters did he establish? Are they still in existance? |
Author: David O'Flaherty
Wednesday, 20 November 2002 - 03:55 pm | |
Hi, Matti
I know PBS often sells videos of their program--maybe you'll find it available in Finland. Your english is fine, by the way. And lots of other people post with their middle fingers, too
Cheers,
Dave |
Author: Blue Violet
Wednesday, 20 November 2002 - 05:02 pm | |
Hi Scott & Vila! I work at the UGA Library. I'm originally from Macon, via Atlanta, & have been in town for the past few years. My boss grew up in Colbert, too, and is a great source for info about what Downtown was like before it turned into one great big bar.
Anyway, as far as researching goes, the big thing now is for libraries to have electronic journal locators for use in providing online access to both current & back issues of all sorts of publications. For some reason the full text version of The Times runs from 1800-1870, although it's indexed through 1905. (I work in Serials in case you hadn't noticed.)
I'm always up for an In-Town Ripper Convention! The guy that runs Low Yo Yo Stuff by the 40 Watt is a forensics buff too & can tell you way more stuff about REM, Widespead, et al than you really ever want to know. Trust me.
P.S: Say, isn't the Tech Game coming up sometime soon? ;) |
Author: Vila
Wednesday, 20 November 2002 - 05:40 pm | |
Violet,
I'd be more interested in stories about the B-52s than I would R.E.M. as it happens. I'm an old-timer in Athens comared to you and Scott. I'd suggest more of a "ripper drive" than a walk. We could drive by and wave at the police woman who has been keeping the Sunset Ave. rapist's house under surveillance since the late '60s, then down to The Station and T.K. Hearty's (sp?) where I can point out the resturant in a railroad car where I and my PE coach had pizzas with the fellow that hired TK's murderer. I was almost hired as an interior designer by the dude myself, but he went and had TK killed over a business matter before he could buy the property he wanted me to re-decorate- Where O'Malleys is right now, right downhill from your Library. The maybe back uptown to see where Tyrone's OC used to stand before REM, the Spumatoids, Little Tigers, and a few other bands played one night that, after closing time, one of the band's guitar amps shorted out and burned the century-old building to the ground. I was there that evening to see the performance and on my way to class the next morning saw the smoking ashes that were all that remained of the building. Maybe I can even find the old railway station that REM filmed one of their earlier videos in, but I don't reccommend that we enter it because that might disturb the homeless people that shelter there. Then we can round it off with a visit to the Clarke County Courthouse parking garage, where the remains of a civil war soldier were found during excavation for the construction. Perhaps we three can decide on a lunch downtown near the Arches? There are many excellent resturants there that keep their prices low to attract destitute students.
Unfortunately, my work schedule and my family commitments preclude any meeting before January, but if you and Scott will keep me appraised of your work schedules, perhaps we can at least pull off a meet and lunch somewhere in town.
Vila |
Author: Paula Wolff
Wednesday, 20 November 2002 - 10:58 pm | |
Dear Peter,
Again, thanks for the thought. I agree with Esther Wilson that MJK was mush inside and it could have been anywhere around the room, on a table, ceiling, anywhere. Gruesome thought. Gruesome sight!
"The House of the Rising Sun" by Eric Burdon and The Animals? A little ditty about an esteemed house in New Orleans of which they are warning all young men away from. We love our folk music here in the States. They really had to clean that one up to record it in the '60's. I love it though.
Who says AUSTIN is the equivalent of Oxford? Oh, those tea sippers! Can't trust 'em.
Again, thanks, Peter and Esther.
Paula |
Author: Scott E. Medine
Wednesday, 20 November 2002 - 11:29 pm | |
Vila and Violet,
I found an interesting article in the Nov. 13 1888 edition of the Athens Banner Watchman. It speaks loosely of the Whitechapel Murders but goes to great lengths in breaking down the command structure of Scotland Yard and discussing the role of the police detective.
The article hints at past coverage of the murders but as luck would have it....the editions that would have fallen around 1-3 days after each of the murders are missing......hmmmmm, if I didn't believe in conspiracies.......I've probably seen you Violet as I am frequently hanging around the research area checking out the old papers.
Anyway, a small lunch get together is needed to include the forensic buff you spoke of Violet. Maybe Broad Street Bar and Grill or DePalma's. And yes, the Tech game is next week, and we gottem' between the hedges. Go Dawgs! And since I'm an LSU alum...Kiss my @$$ Bama and Go to Hell Ole' Miss.
Peace,
Scott |
Author: Esther Wilson
Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 10:45 am | |
Dave--I caught the Titanic Ghosts special by chance of luck! I was just flipping the channels and low and behold....there was that grand ship. I have always been interested in the Titanic disaster (again...I'm a ghoul according to you know who!). When I saw how they were able to extract a perfect clear DNA sample from such a small bone fragment I immediately thought back to our discussions here about exhuming the victims. Maybe one day we will be watching a special on Ripper Ghosts?
Esther |
Author: David O'Flaherty
Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 11:08 am | |
Hello, Esther
Yes, I saw it too. I share your interest in the Titanic, but I wish they had focused a little more on the science instead of the disaster, since we've heard so much about it. What I thought was really interesting that nothing could be salvaged from two out of the three exhumations. Flooding had completely erased the remains of two of the victims. They didn't go into much detail over how this happened; I don't know if the water washed the bones away or if it just completely destroyed them.
Well, they'd have to have a pretty good reason for exhuming any of the Ripper victims. And even if they did, I think it was Andy and Sue who pointed out that English law doesn't really allow for this sort of thing. Not knowing anything about English law, I have to take their word for it. But even if the graves were opened, I think we'd have to prepare ourselves for the very good possibility that nothing of them remains. We'd be luck to have a tooth or some bone; some people have talked about finding suspect DNA, which is pretty crazy.
Incidentally, Esther--have you ever read "Unsinkable" by Daniel Allen Butler? In it is a photograph of the iceberg the Titanic is believed to have clipped. It was taken the morning after the sinking; the photographer noted a smear of paint along the berg's side and snapped off a shot--he hadn't heard about the accident yet. Yesterday, Ally brought up a Wizard of Oz book, written from the point of view of the Wicked Witch. I always thought it would be fun to rewrite the Titanic story from the point of view of the iceberg!
Cheers,
Dave |
Author: judith stock
Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 11:38 am | |
One teeny question here......IF the victims (any or all) WERE exhumed, whose DNA would you expect to find?? Maybe THEIRS??? Would that be a huge surprise? And, considering the state of poverty in which the women existed, could we be certain they were in the right grave?
Just thoughts on a rainy Thursday morning.
Cheers,
J |
Author: Matti Kurumaa
Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 12:20 pm | |
Hello
But if e.g. MJK remains could be investigated today - is'nt there some possibility to get prove that it wrilly is her - and not some unknown (outlander girl who landed illegaly...)
Brrr
Matti |
Author: David O'Flaherty
Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 12:31 pm | |
Hi, Matti
But with whom would we compare her DNA?
Cheers,
Dave |
Author: Peter Wood
Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 01:26 pm | |
Hi Matti
A git is a not very nice person, but it can be used "softly" also, as in "you smug old git".
Peter |
Author: Matti Kurumaa
Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 01:53 pm | |
Hi David
Yes true. There might be many problems - but to my mind it would also rise many new hints.
The official papers like MJK inquest e.g. tells us
that she had many brothers like Henry Kelly who served 2nd Battn, Scots Guards.Possibly she had one sister. Her father was a foreman (or something at an iron works?) in Carnarvonshire, Wales. They had come from Ireland.
Then if all victims could be investicated - we could see can we find only one DNA from each grave & victim or two or more - would there be same DNA's in different graves etc.
Brrrr
Matti |
Author: Matti Kurumaa
Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 02:07 pm | |
Hi David
If any DNA or DNA's are found from any of the victims grave they could be compared with ( which we already have in hand ?) W.Sickert's and with
J.Barnett and so on.
If we start to dig - lets dig - and have a holiday in China.
VBr
Matti |
Author: judith stock
Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 03:25 pm | |
Matti,
Interesting idea, but not even approaching reasonable. We can't be certain the women are in the correct graves, and Sickert is not supposed to have fathered any children, AND we have no idea if Barnett has any descendants. The whole idea of getting DNA is that there is something to compare it to..that's why they call it a "match". The two samples (one from each person) are compared and if they MATCH, the people are the same, but if not, start over from square one. But, if we have nothing to compare a DNA sample to, then all we have is DNA...big deal. Sorry, it would be interesting to find out really WHO is in the correct grave, but I'm not even sure we could do that.....
Cheers,
J |
Author: Brenda L. Conklin
Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 10:11 pm | |
| Somebody help me out here but it seems like I remember reading in one of the newspaper accounts that at least Catherine Eddowe's coffin was labelled with her name. |
Author: David O'Flaherty
Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 10:37 pm | |
Hi, Brenda
Yes, you're right; Catherine Eddowes' coffin had a plaque with her name on it, as did Mary Kelly's (I think hers was inscribed 'Marie Jeanette Kelly').
Dave |
Author: judith stock
Friday, 22 November 2002 - 01:46 am | |
Point is that they may not be in the proper slot, and even if the plots are found, the coffins may have deteriorated to the point that the names are gone.
EVEN if we found all the victim's, dug 'em up, and could recover SOLID DNA, to WHAT will we compare it? After all, we know WHAT killed 'em, we just don't know WHO. I would suggest that after going through the autopsy procedure, being prepared for burial and 114 years in the ground, NONE of the remains are likely to hold any DNA but their own.....AND even if they WERE buried with blood evidence,hair or whatever, I guarantee what is left is bones only, if that. So what would be the point of diggin' 'em up? Guess I am thick as two planks tonight.
Cheers,
J |
Author: Paula Wolff
Friday, 22 November 2002 - 06:04 am | |
All,
I really enjoyed the Titanic special and was so happy for the family who was finally able to link with the baby. I feel for the family who missed out, too. They had been living on expectations a long time. But Judith is correct---dig them all up and what have you got (if anything)? DNA without anything to match it to. Sad. I'm all for exhumations for a noble cause but it just won't wash here. Kudos to you, J.
Mattie, Ky, welcome to the most confusing boards on the Internet. Lots of us have lots of opinions so jump right in. I'm pretty new also and don't emote very much.
Thanks and see ya,
Paula |
Author: Esther Wilson
Friday, 22 November 2002 - 09:38 am | |
Dave--I haven't read that book but I would like to see that picture. And you bring up a good book suggestion at the end of your post.
Esther |
Author: David O'Flaherty
Friday, 22 November 2002 - 10:04 am | |
Esther,
If you like, email me for a jpeg of the iceberg.
Dave |
Author: judith stock
Friday, 22 November 2002 - 10:22 am | |
Dear Paula and all,
Don't know if any of you have noticed, but ALL these boards are confusing; sometimes I think we are all in a huge chat room and everyone is speaking a different language...from Urdu to Armenian!! From icebergs to lost babies to Mary Kelly's remains and back again....quite a nifty trip, don't you think?
I apologise to all who were arguing for exhumation; the idea that we might find some sort of answer there is appealing, but, considering these women were at the bottom end of the "poor" scale (I can't imagine the preparations were all that good, nor could the coffins have been the best),the existence of much past a bone or two is unlikely.
Who knows? Next year someone may find a way to go back in time and take pictures, and we'll all see the photo of Jack standing over Mary, knife in hand! As for me? NO WAY do I want to time travel in reverse....nope, things are just fine right here, thank you very much. I am so NOT an adventurer, I have told my husband if he were heading to the New World, I would have kissed him goodbye and said, "have fun, and send postcards"!
Cheers,
J |
Author: Paula Wolff
Friday, 22 November 2002 - 02:18 pm | |
Thanks, Judith, glad to know I'm not the only one speaking in unknown tongues or listening to them, for that matter.
Ta,
Paula |
Author: judith stock
Friday, 22 November 2002 - 05:14 pm | |
ACTUALLY, PAULA,
§¶?§¶ªººªÁÓÇ
?!=º£ªªª ø¡£§!!
Didja get all of that? Sorry,I just couldn't resist! Ta, and have a brilliant weekend.
J |
