Author: A.M.P.
Saturday, 27 February 1999 - 07:16 am |        |
The subject of the calling card which, according to press reports, was found among Catherine Eddowes’ possessions was discussed under the main Victims topic recently. See the postings between 9th and 11th February 1999. Limited attempts were made to trace the person reportedly named on the card, “Frank Carter, 305 Bethnal Green Road.”
On 24th February, boards regular Matthew Delahunty posted a follow-up entry on the subject. Unfortunately it was all but lost in the other discussions taking place under the Catherine Eddowes topic. Further discussion of this card could be fruitful so I have started a new discussion here.
Matthew posted:
“…Well, I actually decided to do a bit of research and look through the report of the murder in the Times. The Times reported the card as being that of "Frank Cater, 405 Bethnal Green Road". I had seen discrepancies in some of the books I read, but I thought that The A-Z was probably accurate…”. In response to this I revisited Kelly’s Directory, plus a Voters List to see whether any references matched The Times’ printing of the name and address. There were a couple of interesting findings.
Examining the years 1887-89 once again, I could find no reference to number 405 in the street directory. From this we must conclude that it was probably a private dwelling, but just possibly a long-term empty commercial premise. The court directory showed nobody of the name Carter or Cater living in the immediate area, (that was always going to be a long shot for Bethnal Green Road). However, the street directory gives two close matches to the name in the vicinity. At number 414 there was a Joseph Carter, an oilman. Far more interesting though is Frank Cater, since his name matches that which was printed in The Times precisely, at number 400, which was located on the south side between Mape Street and Viaduct Street.
Frank Cater was a Cheesemonger. He had traded at 65 Adam Street, Rotherhithe in S.E. London previously. It appears that he moved to 400 Bethnal Green Road in late 1887 or in 1888, taking over the business from a John Keep who shared his occupation. Frank was still there in 1892, but after that the business passed to Edward Cater, presumably a relation.
Like Dela, I have accepted Carter at number 305 to be correct until now, but might Cater at four-hundred-and-something offer possibilities? Your feedback is welcome. Best Wishes |
Author: Matthew Delahunty (Dela)
Saturday, 27 February 1999 - 09:55 am | |
Thanks A.M.P.,
I think we may finally have our man. Frank Cater seems much closer to the mark, and The Times seems to be accurate with the name - even if the number is different (he may have had premises there, a warehouse, office, home??). I'd still like to know why we now have a Frank Carter of 305 Bethnal Green Road in such books as The A-Z amongst others. Did other papers reported different names/addresses?
While the information re the card is unlikely to be insignificant, at least by correctly finding out who this man was we can eliminate any likely inference that could've otherwise be drawn.
Dela |
Author: Peter Birchwood
Saturday, 27 February 1999 - 11:34 am | |
The mystery is solved! The obvious scenario is this:
The ripper strangles Eddowes. He pulls his knife out of his specially- sewn pocket but in so doing inadvertantly pulls out one of his own business cards which in the heat of the attack he leave beside the body. When Abberline visits him in Bethnal Green, Frank gives him the funny handshake. Abberline, not realising what was to come in 80 years time gives Frank the benefit of the doubt: no fellow-mason could be a deranged serial killer. Frank, sharpening his cheese-paring knife realises how near he has come to discovery; waits for a few weeks before committing his final atrocity and then leaves the country to set up in business in Owatchakee Tasmania.
Simple, isn't it?
Peter. |
Author: Ashling
Sunday, 28 February 1999 - 04:05 am | |
A.M.P. & DELA, et al --- Thanks for the research. Cheesemonger sounded so ominous (reminded me of scandalmonger) that I looked it up in trusty Webster's. "Monger - noun: A dealer in a specific commodity / verb: To peddle." Sounds pretty small-time. I'm visualizing a guy selling hot dogs from a pushcart sort of deal. Could owners of a small business in this poverty-stricken neighborhood usually afford to print up business cards? I'm reading Jack London's People of the Abyss [I realize it was published 15 years later] --- lots of folks in the East End rented out the space UNDER their beds, just to buy bread for their kids.
However, IF it's acertained that Frank C. was operating from a reasonably large store on Bethnal Road --- anyone got any ideas on the liklihood that Kate Eddowes was appplying for a job there?
PETER --- : ) Watch out, someone will take your post seriously & hotly debate your "findings."
Take care,
Ashling |
Author: Matthew Delahunty (Dela)
Sunday, 28 February 1999 - 07:38 am | |
Hi Ashling,
I would think that if the guy's a cheesemonger Eddowes may have bought cheese from him or something like that. And I don't think that just because he's from the East End necessarily made him poor. Just find some pictures of the bustling trade that went on there during the daytime. Just because someone lived or worked in the area didn't necessarily make them poor - all I need to remind me of that is look at the suburb(s) in my home town which is considered less affluent and where the soliciting/drug trade/crime is most prevalent. Despite all this (which would generally occur at night) there are many thriving businesses in the area. Everyone has to eat - even the poor - so it's likely that a grocer/cheesemonger/any vendor with his own business wouldn't have been poverty stricken.
Sorry I waffled on a bit there. Getting back to why the card - I remember reading about a mock letter published in the Pall Mall Gazette. The satirical piece had Commissioner Warren asking for the Ripper to leave his engraved or printed address card (or his name and address on a piece of paper) on the body of anyone he murdered. Could the Ripper actually have left the card as a joke/diversion/clue? Of course the other possibilities is that is was in Eddowes' possession, or some clown of a journalist added it to the list of possession and all the papers printed it.
Dela |
Author: Paul Begg
Sunday, 28 February 1999 - 08:46 am | |
| On the question raised here about the poverty/wealth of the East End, it might help a little to think of London as a large hotel, the West End being the plush suites, carpeted corridors, luxuriously appointed dining rooms and bars. Meanwhile, the East End being the service area, where the cleaners are, the washing, food preparation, boot cleaning and so on are done. It isn't an exact comparison by any means, but the point is that those who supply the goods and services are often as wealthy as those who buy and use them. So the cheesemonger might have (and very likely did) cater for the West End. |
Author: Bob_c
Monday, 01 March 1999 - 08:58 am | |
Hi all,
Of course Eddowes having some one's card on her (if she did) does not mean that that person was Jack. Cheesmonger or not, Kate could have had a number of good (and a couple bad) reasons for having his card.
I still don't see proven that Eddowes whored, although the place of her murder + circumstances doesn't help clear her name either.
I see what you mean with the hotel, Paul. I have noticed often that the rich are mostly rich not for how much money they earn, but how much property (and name) they've inherited. I can suppose that a cheesemonger in the East End could have good money, and still be called 'poor', while a rich man has to sell a couple of lambs or something to pay the cheesemonger's bill.
If the cheesemonger has a crash, however, he's finished. The rich man sells a farm or a house and continues. May one difference between West and East End. (I've lived in both.)
Best regards,
Bob |
Author: Edana
Monday, 01 March 1999 - 01:08 pm | |
Howdy all!
Now we're going to have to research the design of cheese knives! I keep thinking of Monty Python's cheese shop sketch. Do you have any Stilton?
Edana |
Author: Caroline
Monday, 01 March 1999 - 02:03 pm | |
There's no call for it, and the Camembert's too runny, before you ask (cue Greek music).
Love,
Caroline |
Author: The Viper
Tuesday, 02 March 1999 - 02:54 am | |
Hello All,
Was just wondering whether anyone reading this has ever inspected the primary Metropolitan Police documents and found records of an investigation into this card?
First and foremost, such an investigation would confirm the card's existence. Secondly it would clear up the matter of the name and address. Thirdly it might throw a little light on the tradesman's connection (if any) to Eddowes.
Failing that, could anybody point me at such an investigation in a book about about JTR please. I cannot remember seeing the matter dealt with in any detail. Thanks.
Regards, V |
Author: Bob_c
Tuesday, 02 March 1999 - 05:33 am | |
Hi Viper,
I've been missing you for a while. Like you I haven't read much about this card either. Assuming it existed the police would certainly have followed it up.
Hi Edana,
The petshop sketch is my favourite... "This parrot is dead. It is an ex-parrot. This animal is deceased, it has kicked the bucket, gone over the Jordan, etc.etc".
Designing cheese knives for Eddowes may be considered as not overly rewarding, the poor girl most certainly does not like knives of any sort any more.
BUT, don't forget that one of the main suspects is also yellow in colour, just like cheese... Is there maybe a lead to follow, does someone have a hand in play?
Regards to all,
Bob |
Author: Caroline
Tuesday, 02 March 1999 - 11:28 am | |
Wasn't there a Camembert character in 'Carry On Don't Lose Your Head' set in the good old days of the French Revolution? Citizen Bidet was there too.....
Love,
Caz |
Author: Bob_c
Tuesday, 02 March 1999 - 12:22 pm | |
Hi Caroline,
Didn't he lose his (nearly), Little Monsieur Bidet? I have seen the film but have forgotten most of it.
My daughter translated 'Bidet' as 'Bath for bottoms' as she was learning french at school.
Street Scene:
'Good day, Vicar'
'Good day, Mr Bath-for-bottoms, how is Mrs Bath-for-bottoms?'.. 'and all the dear little Baths-for-bottoms?'
Well, Sooty didn't have one, I suppose. Or Harry wore something. On his hand.
Love,
Bob |
Author: Caroline
Wednesday, 03 March 1999 - 04:29 am | |
Do you remember Sale of the Century with Knickerless Parsnips (sure he won't mind, he's a clever and very funny chap)?
When asked what a billet doux was, one of the hapless contestants replied: 'is it something you use to clean your bottom with?' I suppose it depended on who the love letter was from really!
This is an absolutely true story, verifiable by Nicholas no doubt. You just can't forget gems like that.
Love,
Caroline |
Author: Bob_c
Wednesday, 03 March 1999 - 07:39 am | |
Hi Caroline,
I've been away from MOE for a very long, sad time now (21 years) except for occasional dirty (and not sad) week-ends. Therefore I probably won't have known that program, but I'd have laughed my head off too. Poor contestant. Real ass in front of the whole bloody nation. The Germans say 'Schadenfreude'
Nick Par seems to bring back vague memories of something though. As I left the country to make the continent unsafe, Sooty was still a bachelor (I think). That doesn't mean that Soo was still innocent though. Fancy having anything to do with this vicious thug!
My dinner break is over, bye for now,
Love,
Bob |
Author: Marg Rancole
Saturday, 20 November 1999 - 08:55 am | |
| Since this calling card cannot be traced conclusively, and since the only reference seems to be in The Times, could it have been a plant by a journalist on that newspaper? Tricks like that would have kept the story going. |
Author: A.M.P.
Tuesday, 20 March 2001 - 08:04 am | |
| Testing. For Tom Slemen's attention. |
Author: A.M.P.
Thursday, 22 March 2001 - 03:51 am | |
| Testing. For Tom Slemen's attention. |
Author: Tom Wescott
Friday, 23 March 2001 - 01:58 pm | |
Hello,
It's interesting this board is here. I am currently researching Frank Cater.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott
P.S. Just for the record, the Caters weren't poor. |
Author: Christopher T George
Saturday, 24 March 2001 - 07:03 am | |
Greetings Tom:
Chief Inspector Frank Cater was part of the Scotland Yard team that helped put away the East End gangsters the Kray Twins. See
http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters/krays/13.htm
Possibly some family connection between the police inspector and the Frank Cater whose name appeared on the business card? This is presuming of course that it was "Cater" on the card and not "Carter" as reported in the press.
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: A.M.P.
Saturday, 24 March 2001 - 01:35 pm | |
Chris,
To clarify your last point, the Times on 1st October 1888 listed among Eddowes' possessions:-
'...a printed handbill with the name "Frank Cater, 405, Bethnal-green-road," upon it...'
The name could have been a misprint, but to promote that idea seriously we would need at least one alternative spelling of the name. I know of no other reference to this card. Are you, or anybody else aware of one?
Best Wishes |
Author: Christopher T George
Saturday, 24 March 2001 - 02:54 pm | |
Yes, A.M.P., A to Z, 4th Edition, p. 125-126: "Press reports add part of a pair of spectacles, one mitten, and a printed card for 'Frank Carter, 305 Bethnal Green Road'." Also interview with Andy Aliffe here on the Casebook. Sorry Martin, Keith, Andy, and Paul!
Chris (ducking)
Perhaps one of those authors can provide a reference to a press article that gives the name as "Carter" rather than "Cater" to provide basis for their statement that press reports (other than The Times of 1 October 1888) said the card read "Frank Carter" not "Cater"?
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: A.M.P.
Saturday, 24 March 2001 - 04:33 pm | |
| True enough, Chris. I should have made it clearer that I meant contemporary press references and not references in the modern media. |
Author: David M. Radka
Saturday, 24 March 2001 - 07:02 pm | |
My prediction: Our friend S will try to hornswoggle on the calling card.
David |
Author: Tom Wescott
Sunday, 25 March 2001 - 10:56 am | |
Chris,
It's funny you should post a link to the crime library's Kray article. I was just reading that two days ago. I really didn't know anything about the Krays. Not my cup of tea. Interesting Cater connection, though. I had assumed the name and address in A-Z was a typo. Are you meaning to say the name appeared in other papers as 'Frank Carter'?
David,
What does 'hornswoggle' mean? I've heard the term before but am not sure of the meaning. By 'S' do you mean Prince Eddy or J.K. Stephen? 
A.M.P.,
I was catching up on my reading in the dissertations page yesterday and was wondering...Are you and Adrian M. Phypers one and the same? If so, are you also 'The Viper'? I ask because I could see someone named Phypers being called 'Viper' and also because you wrote a piece on East End pubs and 'The Viper' wrote a piece on East End coffee houses, similar pieces of research. It's just a thought and I'm only curious. No inferences are intended.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Author: David M. Radka
Sunday, 25 March 2001 - 02:07 pm | |
Tom,
By "S" I refer to "TS," and by "hornswoggle" I mean "to dupe the mark."
David |
Author: Tom Wescott
Saturday, 04 August 2001 - 12:18 am | |
Hello all,
If anyone is still interested in Frank Cater, I've learned a little bit more about him which I am writing into an article that will hopefully be published in the October issue of Ripper Notes (subscribe now!). Assuming it comes across well on paper, I will also be including a photograph that is most likely our Frank Cater. For the record, I don't believe he was the Ripper.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott
P.S. Matthew Delahunty mentioned a mock letter that was published in the Pall Mall Gazette asking that the Ripper leave his calling card on the body of each of his victims. Can someone please point me to this article? I would very much love to read it. Thanks. |
