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** This is an archived, static copy of the Casebook messages boards dating from 1998 to 2003. These threads cannot be replied to here. If you want to participate in our current forums please go to https://forum.casebook.org **
The Survivors
Casebook Message Boards: Ripper Victims: General Discussion:
The Survivors
Author: Monty
Sunday, 31 March 2002 - 10:03 am |        | A few months ago Philip C Dowe and I were discussing the possibilities that there could have been other attacks by Jack where these victims may have survived.
I have just recently come across the case of Susan Ward who was attacked somewhere off Commercial St in September 1888 ?
A possible Jack attack ?? I dont know.
I would be very interested in your views regarding this and of any other "survivors" that you know of or feel could have been one of his more unsuccessful attempts
Does not have to have been in Whitechapel, Id take anything from anywhere (within obvious reason)
Thanks
Monty
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Author: David O'Flaherty
Sunday, 31 March 2002 - 01:18 pm | | Hi, Monty
Where did you come across Susan? I'd like to read about it myself; sounds pretty interesting.
Dave |
Author: Chris Hintzen
Sunday, 31 March 2002 - 07:29 pm | | Hi Dave,
The report on the attack on a woman was reported in the Daily Telegraph on October 3, 1888.
Apparently a woman was attacked sometime around September 23rd as she turned off Commercial Road. Her screams scared off her assailant and she only had minor wounds to her arm.
According to Eddelston's 'Jack the Ripper: An Encyclopedia', "The only person who was given treatment at London Hospital during this period was a woman named Susan Ward, who was admitted on 15 September her suffering from a cut upper arm, though there is no guarantee that her injury had been sustained on the same day. It did, however, fit the Ripper's pattern of attacking on or about weeekends, and it has been suggested that this case was an unsuccessful attack on his part."
So maybe Susan was attacked by the Ripper, or maybe just by some other looney toon with a knife.(We do have at least one other case of the gentleman(who's name I unfortunately can't remember at this time) threatening a prostitute, then later attacking another gentleman at a coffee stall with a knife.)
Regards,
Chris H. |
Author: David O'Flaherty
Monday, 01 April 2002 - 12:18 am | | Chris,
Thanks for the information--I haven't read Eddleston yet, but I'd be interested in reading that Daily Telegraph story, although it sounds like a reporter writing up street gossip. But I'd still like to see it for myself.
Do you (or anybody) know of any sources on what other violent crimes occured in Whitechapel that fall of 1888, besides the Whitechapel murders? I suppose you'd have to go to the original police records of the era, if they still exist.
But Monty's idea of early survivors makes sense to me--perhaps there were times when he (Jack, not Monty) wasn't so quick with the knife, or had his strangulation technique down so well.
Dave |
Author: Monty
Monday, 01 April 2002 - 06:04 am | | Chris, Dave,
Chris, yep thats the Susan Im refering to.
Stephen Willment researched the Daily Telegraph story and came up with Susan Ward as the only case admitted to the London hospital within the time period. She is in the A-Z as well Dave.
There is also Annie Millwood who was attacked earlier in the year (around August I think).
I just cannot help but think that Jack must have got it wrong sometimes. We know Sutcliffe did, Zodiac did and countless other serial murders.
Im just interested on where these attacks took place, because if they are localised then I feel that is where our man may have a lived or hid. Especially if they are pre-Nichols.
Monty
PS Chris H, the mans name was Charles Ludwig (AKA Wetzel). |
Author: Chris Hintzen
Monday, 01 April 2002 - 08:04 am | | Hi Monty,
Thanks for reminding me of Ludwig's name. As Jack would say my not being able to remember was 'giving me real fits'.
Annie Millwood was attacked on February 25, 1888. Her attacker stabbed and cut her several times about the legs and torso with a small clasp knife that he pulled out of a pocket. The man was a complete stranger to her, and by what reports I've read there was no provocation, nor did the man say anything during the attack. She survived for a month in an infirmary and was released to a workhouse on March 21st. However, ten days later she was found dead. Coroner Wynne Edwin Baxter held an inquest on April 5th and after the testimony of several medical witnesses returned a verdict that Annie died from "a sudden effusion into the pericardium from the rupture of the left pulmonary artery through ulceration". Simply put she died of natural causes and not from the attack.
There is also the attack on Ada Wilson on March 28, 1888. However, Ada was attacked as she answered the door to a gentleman who demanded money from her. The man threatened that if she didn't give him money, then she had but a few minutes to live. When she refused the man stabbed her in the throat then ran off. Ada survived the attack, yet her assailant was never caught. Nonetheless many believe that it couldn't have been Jack, since the attack happened on a Wednesday(Jack killed during the weekends or holidays) as well as the fact that there was an attempted robbery involved.
Then we have Annie Farmer's attack on November 20, 1888. Miss Farmer went to a room at a lodging house with a gentleman. The people in the house heard a scream and saw the gentleman tear out of the place. Miss Farmer came down holding her bloody neck claiming that the man had just assaulted her. The people called out, 'Jack the Ripper', and attempted to follow the man, however he dissappeared. As the doctors examined her throat they noticed the wound was superficial and caused by a blunt weapon. This combined with the fact that the police had found out Miss Farmer had tried to conceal some coins in her mouth, made them believe that she was not attacked by Jack the Ripper, but may have tried to steal from the client. With either him cutting her because she would not give him his money, or her cutting herself and exclaiming that the gentleman was Jack the Ripper. Also this attack occured on a Tuesday(Again a difference from Jack's killings taking place on the weekeneds.)
There are also other reports of attacks on Prostitutes during the time of the murders(such as the one by Mr. Ludwig, already discussed). But these appear to be ones that caught the most attention.
Did Jack have anything to do with any of these attacks? Well that's up to the reader to decide.
Sincerely,
Chris H.
P.S. Oh there were also Florence Grace Johnson who's buttocks was stabbed, as well as Isabelle Frazer Anderson who there was an attempted assault on the same area by that looney Thomas Cutbush in March of 1891. |
Author: The Viper
Monday, 01 April 2002 - 09:24 am | | This subject has been raised in other guises before. So I'm going to be lazy and just repeat part of a poste I made last August on another topic:-
"... we did take an example story of this type for the Casebook Press Project a few months ago. On the same Bank Holiday night that Emma Smith was fatally attacked, a woman named Malvina Haynes was brutally assaulted close to her home in the south Aldgate/Whitechapel area. She too was taken to the London Hospital and was treated by the very same doctor as Smith was. But unlike Ada Wilson's case, for instance, Ripper researchers have never to my knowledge picked up on this incident and discussed it in books. Could this attack (apparently bludgeoning from the report, though it doesn't make it clear) be the work of the Whitechapel murderer before he developed an established MO?... We simply can't say for sure - and the battering sustained by Mrs. Haynes is one of a depressingly long list of violent incidents reported in the newspapers."
You can read the appropriate press report, taken from the Eastern Post Here.
As other examples of the routine violence towards women in the locality, see the paragraph at the bottom of This Report, taken from the Illustrated Police News of 22nd September 1888...
...and again from the bottom of This Article, taken from the East London Observer of July 1889.
Bit of an afterthought here: would the IPN report relate to the case Monty is talking about?
Regards, V. |
Author: David O'Flaherty
Monday, 01 April 2002 - 11:25 am | | Thank you, Viper, for the links. They're much appreciated.
Dave |
Author: Monty
Tuesday, 02 April 2002 - 07:32 am | | Viper,
Too much info for me to go through on my lunch hour but I shall print them off and check them out later. On glancing through, I feel it could be a version of Susans attack.
I would like to thank you all for this. It helps me alot, but please, keep them coming.
Grateful Monty
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