Author: joanne burley
Saturday, 03 June 2000 - 04:05 pm |        |
HI LEANNE
THANKS FOR YOUR MESSAGE, BOTH MY SISTER & I HAVE SEEN THE WRITING ON THE WALL AND THERE IS QUITE ALOT. INCLUDING LETTERING B4 'FM'. THE PHOTO OF MJK VARIES IN REPRODUCTION FROM BOOK TO BOOK. HOWEVER ONE BOOK INPARTICULAR SHOWS THE WRITING ON THE WALL, OTHER BOOKS DO NOT SHOW. THIS IS NOT 'THE MAN IN THE MOON SYNDROME' THERE IS WRITING THERE AND WE ARE AMAZED THAT IT HAS NOT BEEN NOTICED B4. WE CANNOT FIND ANY REFERENCE TO IT, ONLY 'FM' HAS EVER BEEN MENTIONED IN 'THE DIARY OF JACK THE RIPPER.' RIPPEROLOGISTS YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE! |
Author: Ashling
Saturday, 03 June 2000 - 05:21 pm | |
Hi all. There's plenty of info on this topic, accessible without even using Stephen's new search engine!
Scroll up to the top of this page and click on Archive through April 30. Read them all or get the main gist from the posts ---
By wolf on Sunday, April 18, 1999 - 05:56 pm:
on through ---
By Ashling on Friday, April 23, 1999 - 04:17 am:
This is just a snack. The main meal can be digested by reading the below:
By Stephen P. Ryder (Admin) on Tuesday, December 1, 1998 - 08:34 pm:
A new article by Stewart P. Evans has been posted on the CASEBOOK: DISSERTATIONS section, entitled "The Kelly Crime Scene Photographs."
It discusses the history of the photographs, the differences between them, and the various books which have reprinted copies of each one.
The article can be reached directly at:
Kelly Photos Dissertation
The game's afoot.
Janice |
Author: Leanne Perry
Saturday, 03 June 2000 - 07:10 pm | |
G'day Joanne, Simon, Janice, everyone,
It was April, when I visited Julian and I can't contact him until Monday, but I definately will and ask him about that photo. I think he got it from that psychic book, which has a full-page photo of Kelly on the bed. I think he enlarged the photo, on a photocopier!
Leanne! |
Author: Leanne Perry
Friday, 09 June 2000 - 07:35 pm | |
G'day Everyone,
I'm still trying to contact Julian Rosenthal, to ask about that photo. He only accesses the Internet from work, and unfortunately the poor lad has been home sick all week. As soon as I communicate with him again, I'll bring up the subject of that photo. I haven't forgotten!
Leanne! |
Author: Leanne Perry
Friday, 09 June 2000 - 07:52 pm | |
G'day Everyone,
Take a look at the photograph, posted by Roger O'Donnell on 'The Kelly Crime Scene Photographs' board of Friday June 9, 2000 - 2:54pm.
Looking very closely, I can see the word 'Hart', in large letters, 'painted' on the wall behind Kelly.
I'm not sure that this is the exact photograph, that Julian and I saw. I'll still try to communicate with him about it, but can anyone else see it?
Leanne! |
Author: Leanne Perry
Friday, 09 June 2000 - 07:57 pm | |
G'day,
To help you, the large 'H', is just above what appears to be her left kneecap.
Leanne! |
Author: Leanne Perry
Saturday, 10 June 2000 - 07:49 am | |
G'day,
I hope this works....
Leanne! |
Author: stephen stanley
Saturday, 10 June 2000 - 09:57 am | |
To; Leanne,
It doesn't for me......sorreeeeee !!
Steve s. |
Author: Simon Owen
Saturday, 10 June 2000 - 03:44 pm | |
G'day Leanne !
Take a look at the writing again , look at the ' T '...doesn't it look a bit like a ' Y ' actually ?
I think the word you have spotted is actually ' M A R Y ' ! |
Author: Leanne Perry
Saturday, 10 June 2000 - 06:59 pm | |
G'day Simon,
I'm glad you could see this writing, also. I don't think I'll ever be able to post an attachment here.
I thought the word 'Hart' was more likely, because Mary's heart was missing!
I'll study it, some more!
Leanne! |
Author: Leanne Perry
Saturday, 10 June 2000 - 07:08 pm | |
 |
Author: Christopher T George
Saturday, 10 June 2000 - 10:50 pm | |
Hi, all:
I believe I recall that Stewart Evans said that he thought the photograph had been written on. It is not in his dissertation on the MJK photographs on this site but I do remember hearing that some of the apparent anomalies on the wall might be attributable to notations on the photograph, either on the back or people writing on other pieces of paper on top of the photograph and the impression of the writing coming through onto the photograph. If you read Stewart's dissertation, you will see that the photograph was not treated very well -- pinned up on a wall evidently, etc., so later "graffiti" on the photograph, inadvertent possibly, may be what you are seeing.
Chris George |
Author: Roger O'Donnell
Sunday, 11 June 2000 - 06:00 am | |
Leanne,
Try reposting as a jpg or gif format :) I'm eager to see what youve done
Roger |
Author: Leanne Perry
Sunday, 11 June 2000 - 07:24 am | |
G'day Roger,
Thanks for trying to help...
In 'Imaging For Windows', under 'JPEG compression', in the Help menu, it says: 'it's for True color and 256 shades of gray TIFF image files'.
I select 'TIFF' for the 'File Menu',
'True Color'
'JPEG' for compression,
150 dpi resolution,
'A4' size.
Then I save it as a 'Download'.
That's what I do!!!!!!!!!
Leanne! |
Author: Leanne Perry
Sunday, 11 June 2000 - 07:39 am | |
G'day Chris,
The letters that I see, and hopefully the one's that Simon sees too, appear on the wall behind the bed and body! Only about three quarters of the word 'Hart' or as Simon says 'Mary' appear to us!
If it is an indent, caused by someone writing over the photo, they spelled the word 'Hart' wrong! And if it is just an indent, why is it only a single word?
Leanne! |
Author: Roger O'Donnell
Sunday, 11 June 2000 - 08:30 am | |
Leanne,
Sounds like an oddity of the S/ware. Try the gif format. Its only 256 colours, but its probably enough. A jpeg format file *usually* has the extension '.jpg'. Tif is a Tagged Information File formart, which your software is applying JPEG compression on. IF you need further help mail me on HarleQnxx@hotmail.com, and we'll see what we can do.
Sorry to the rest of the board for bringing in non-ripper technical stuff, but I think we need to see exactly what Leanne is posting :)
Roger |
Author: Leanne Perry
Sunday, 11 June 2000 - 06:22 pm | |
G'day friends,
I'll keep trying to post that photo, but until I do, see for yourself! Go to 'The Kelly Crime Scene Photographs' board and look at the photo posted by 'Roger O'Donnell, on Friday June the 9th 2000 - 2:54p.m.'
Simon obviously saw something too, and now when I look at that photo in books and that, I can see it!
Hint: The large 'H', appears just above her left kneecap!
Leanne! |
Author: Leanne Perry
Sunday, 11 June 2000 - 07:23 pm | |
| |
Author: Simon Owen
Monday, 12 June 2000 - 10:56 am | |
| Theres definitely a word there ! |
Author: Leanne Perry
Monday, 12 June 2000 - 05:57 pm | |
G'day Simon,
It's OK mate! I'll post the picture here, if it Kills me! Roger O'Donnel is helping me heaps!
I am trying to send the photo to him, so he can post it here!
I know there's a word there, it stands out to me, every time I look at the photo now, but I am trying to work out if it was on the wall, or just caused by someone writing 'Mary' in large letters on a document, (maybe an envelope), while leaning on the photo.
If the word is 'Hart', I don't think any one would write an incorrectly spelt word, on an envelope, do you?
Leanne! |
Author: Jill De Schrijver
Tuesday, 13 June 2000 - 06:31 am | |
Hi Leanne,
I've really looked very 'hard'. What I can distinguish, just at the right from the right kneecap is something like an 'H', but if you look further up, it is clear that the two legs of the 'H' are lines from the (wooden?) wall itself, you can even see the whole board, if you look closely enough.
What I did see was an 'E' and maybe somthing like an 'o' or 'L' more to the left of the picture (left of the supposed FM). But also here the upstanding leg of the 'E' is part of a board. Actually the upstanding leg of the 'F' is an 'L' too. And instead of an 'M' you can also find an 'Y'. Thus reading 'ELLY'.
The wording does appear to be put on the wall, not part of it. But so far it also looks as if it is written across the picture or pressed through, leaving its mark on the "picture-wall". Although I admit it is in the same perspective as the wall.
Can you see it? Hope I helped a bit.
Greetings,
Jill |
Author: Leanne Perry
Tuesday, 13 June 2000 - 06:11 pm | |
G'day Jill,
I think all this just shows how easy it is to see any words/letters in random blood splashes. Even 'FM' can be seen, if your mind/imagination chooses to see it. Every time I look at the photo, now, the word 'Hart' stands out. It didn't before.
Now I can see 'O', between the 'H' and the 'r'.
Look at the top horizontal line, of the 'F' and run your eyes from right to left and keep going, until you you reach 3 times it's length. That is the horizontal line of the 't' I see. Now that can't be simply a line of the wall panel, because it's not correctly horizontal!
Leanne! |
Author: Jill De Schrijver
Wednesday, 14 June 2000 - 03:15 am | |
Sorry Leanne,
You mean beginning with the 'F' just above the right kneecap, and then turning my eyes to my left? Then I'm reading like an arabic? Because it's also there that I see nothing but'ELLY'.
Where you see the top horizontal line of the T, look down and you'll see the same line again, and a bit further down again: 3 horizontal lines and one vertical is 'E'
Actually do you know what the largness of the original picture is? Because the writing seems to me awfully big, I can not perceive that the police would not have noticed something this big: must have a height of 35cm and more than 1m length. The largness of the writing (doesn't matter at the moment what you see) against the proportions of all things taken in the picture, suggest that it was not on the wall itself, but is writing on the picture, either actually written on it or pressed on it by writing on note.
Jill |
Author: Leanne Perry
Wednesday, 14 June 2000 - 08:12 am | |
G'day Jill,
I'm talking about the 'FM', right in the corner of the wall, just above her breast.
Look at her visible hand, (the very tip of the fingers actually), now take your eyes in a straight line up, to the wall. That is the vertical line of this lower case 't'.
I have no idea how large the original photo was. If the 'Hart' I see was merely pressed on by someone writing over it, then why doesn't the lowest part of these letters, appear on the body of Kelly? and if a policeman was just making a note of which organ was missing, why did he misspell the word?
Leanne! |
Author: Jill De Schrijver
Wednesday, 14 June 2000 - 09:00 am | |
Leanne,
I see something darker there, where you point out. But I can't discern anything from it at the moment. If it is lettering it would be to small I think for scriblings on a picture, and thus have been there on the situ itself.
I'll try to enhance it for me.
I'll also make clear on the picture what I have seen and post it. |
Author: Jill De Schrijver
Wednesday, 14 June 2000 - 09:09 am | |
Here is the pic again,
I've filled in the lettering I saw and put a black square around the area I presume you refer.
 |
Author: Simon Owen
Wednesday, 14 June 2000 - 03:18 pm | |
Thank you Jill , the word I saw is in the black box. The ' M ' is just outside the box on the left hand side with part of it extending into the black box , the ' Y ' is in the top right-hand corner of the box.
I must confess I did not see the word ' ELLY ' so I will go back to the photo and have a look for it. But I think the only way to tell if these words are indentations or not is to actually examine the original photo. If they are not , the question is : who wrote these words ?
P.S. Written under the word ' MARY ' ( or HART ) , the word ' MARY ' seems to be written again , only in smaller letters. These letters seem to disappear below the sheet , so they may be genuine. |
Author: Simon Owen
Wednesday, 14 June 2000 - 03:40 pm | |
Yes Jill , you are spot on ! I can see the word Kelly on the original photo ; it doesn't look like an indentation on the photograph either. The ' K ' for KELLY is visible too ( just ), on the very edge of the picture.
For me , what suggests the writing is real is that it does not cross over onto the corpse or seem to overwrite the corpse in any way. The odd thing is that none of it - not even the ' FM ' - is mentioned by the police. Since Walter Dew was on the scene you would think at least he , if not the others , would have mentioned this oddity but as far as I know it is mentioned by NOBODY. Perhaps nobody wanted to look that much. |
Author: Simon Owen
Wednesday, 14 June 2000 - 03:54 pm | |
I can see ANOTHER ' MARY ' on the wall , the ' M ' is under the second ' L ' in Kelly and the ' R Y ' of Mary are visible to the right of the ' Y ' in Kelly.
Now look below the ' R ' in this new word.
A ' J ' !
I think the word is ' Jo Bar ' or ' Josep ' or ' Jo B '. It runs just above the sheet at the back.
Can anyone else see this word ?
Perhaps all these words were written by Kelly and Barnett themselves , those long winter evenings probably got a bit dull so they graffitted their room ! |
Author: Julian Rosenthal
Wednesday, 14 June 2000 - 11:41 pm | |
G'day everyone,
What the bloody hell's going on here. Have you guys eaten too much alphabet soup or something. Christ, next thing you know someone will find a whole bloody confession complete with signature written on the bedpost in microdots:-)
I'll send you the photo that Leanne and myself worked on Jill and see what you can make of it.
Who started all this 'FM' •••• anyway? I'd like to have a really long talk with you:-)
Jules |
Author: Jill De Schrijver
Thursday, 15 June 2000 - 05:39 am | |
ALL!!!!!,
LETTER CARVINGS FOUND ON MARY'S FACE
I redirect you to the post of George Sitouriou 6/14 7:30 pm under Topics->Ripper Victims->Markings on Mary Jane Kelly
Can anyone confirm this finding seperately on the photograph this person meant? Can anyone confirm the finding on pre-diary photograph version? Or is this a prank?
He found the word 'FIVE' carved up in Mary's face. |
Author: Jill De Schrijver
Thursday, 15 June 2000 - 05:18 pm | |
Leanne, Jules
I can see now what you mean.
But the 'H' is actually is colouring and relief of the board, making up the wall besides the bed. You can clearly see this is, if you look up. The two upstanding legs of the 'H' cross the whole wall.
The upstanding leg of the 'a' is of the same form as those from the 'H'.
I can see where you got the belly from the 'a' and the rounding of the 'r'. It is made by discolourisation of the board. Not discoulorisation by applying something to it. They are created by the darkening of the surrounding area's.
The first three letters are lightened up, either because they are nearer to us in perspective like the relief of the 'H', or because by a darker area surrounding the 'a' and 'r'. The 't' on the other hand is dark. It is also not so nicely formed as the other supposed lettering. Red is perceived as black or very dark grey, when vieuwed as black and white. What is red: blood. What is remarked on by Dr. Bond: splashes of blood against the side wall next to the head of MJK, where it should have been when her throat was cut. None of the lettering is carved. Only one created by blood.
So added up, we have a relief, two surrounding staining of the wall, and one splash of blood.
My conclusion: sorry, our mind playing tricks.
LUV
Jill |
Author: Jill De Schrijver
Thursday, 15 June 2000 - 05:52 pm | |
Simon,
I think I have found the 'Mary' you mean. The lettering is consistent in the fact that none of them are partly relief, or part blood. They are not carved, they show no scratching at all. And they are not of blood, they should be darker, almost as black as the corner splashes if they were. In so far I could find out the nature of these lettering: sorry Simon, stains.
I can locate how a carving would look like: take the a-z picture. You have the square relief of the wall, besides the bed, where the 'art' of the word 'Hart' seen by Jules and Leanne and your 'Mary' is in. Above it, there is a similar relief square. The two seem to be almost united by a darker line (no relief, probably a crack). Almost where the unting dark line stops, move your eye a little left-ward. You'll find a 'T' there. It is lighter, almost white. That 'T' is carved. You'll immediately notice some other white light markings in the area left of it. Those are not carvings, if you look at them through a magnifying glass, they are either cracklings of the picture itself (because they continue without following perspective of relief) or lighter part of a stain on the wall. This as illustration what you can perceive.
Greetings,
Jill
PS, try to either mail me or post the extra lettering you see. I'll try to figure out of what they exist. |
Author: Jill De Schrijver
Thursday, 15 June 2000 - 05:57 pm | |
Leanne, Jules
After even a closer look: the upperside of the belly of the 'a'is created by a stain on teh picture itself. It's darker, and crosses the relief without following perspective. The bottom of the belly is created by a patch on the wall itself. It is darker than the other stain, showing light changes of the wall istelf, and the sheat stops the bottom patch.
The 'r' stain is part of the wall too. |
Author: Jill De Schrijver
Thursday, 15 June 2000 - 06:05 pm | |
All,
The 'ELLY' I found and the extra 'K', Simon found.
They are too big in scale to be part of the wall. All lettering is consistent in the same colour of darkness. There are no parts of the lettering made up by relief of the wall, the upstanding leg of the 'E' is above the relief of the board there. They have no relief. All letters appear of the same handwriting. I conclude that they exist, but are either discoloured ink on the picture itself or are pressed through lettering of a note written while the picture was lying underneath it.
Conclusion: the big word 'KELLY' was written, but not part of the wall, only of the picture, put on a later timing.
Jill |
Author: stephen stanley
Thursday, 15 June 2000 - 06:51 pm | |
Am I the only person in the world who can't see anything on the wall ? (not being sarcastic,I really can't)
Steve s. |
Author: Leanne Perry
Thursday, 15 June 2000 - 09:50 pm | |
G'day All,
Roger O'Donnell has kindly posted a photo that shows this 'Hart', on Kelly's wall, on the 'Kelly Crime Scene Photos' board. Check it out! (please).
What a relief!!!
Leanne! |
Author: Julian Rosenthal
Tuesday, 20 June 2000 - 10:51 pm | |
G'day Jill, great to hear from you again.
I think Jack did that deliberately, blended the blood in with the seams of the wall just to make inconspicuous:-)
Jules |
Author: Jill De Schrijver
Wednesday, 21 June 2000 - 03:15 am | |
Hi Jules,
Then he was lucky that someone spilled some liquid on the photograph so that that patch perfected half an 'a'. Or maybe he did that too.
:-)
Jill |
Author: Monty
Saturday, 13 October 2001 - 09:20 am | |
I know that this is probably a tired subject but as my beloved City are pants in the Premiership at the mo I've decided, rather than watch them, to go through some old stuff on the casebook.
One of the things that has piqued my curiosity was the alleged "FM" on Kellys room wall.
I have read through all the archived posts on this subject, gone through the angles and photos and there is one question that jumps out at me.
That is why is there no mention of this in police reports?
I know that it could be because it was held back but there is nothing (as far as I could see) in police files at all.
I also find it rather strange the no police officer has mentioned it in their memoirs nor has any story of it appeared in any book I've read pre diary.
Surely something like that could not be kept quiet for long and yes, before you tell me that the Macnaghten papers and Littlechild letter were unknown till recently, I would like to point out that they were not scrawled on a backwall for all (including McCarthy) to see.
A rather confused Monty
 |
Author: Jon
Saturday, 13 October 2001 - 11:51 am | |
Monty
You're partly right,.....it is a tired subject.
As for there being no mention of the alleged 'FM' by the 5 or 6 doctors, the police officials, the police constables, the press, the landlord, the coroner, the jury (I think they were given a tour?)....might I daringly suggest 'It simply wasn't there'.
By that I mean it is an illusion, a by-product of a black & white photo, not apparent in real colour.
Regards, Jon |
Author: Monty
Sunday, 14 October 2001 - 09:18 am | |
Jon,
Thats just what I suspected all along but it sounded oh so convincing.
I'm bored with this so I shall never mention it again.
Thanks
Monty
|
