Author: kelly jones
Wednesday, 12 July 2000 - 08:06 am |        |
hi all
the first bit.
Mary did leave th east end in a hurry but not until 5 days after the millers court murder. she collected her daughter elizabeth and travelled to canada. Though not of her own free will. The father of liz (the musician) was determined to get rid of her and paid for the tickets and escorted her on to the boat.
Once in canada, she caught the next available boat to the uk. Docking in liverpool, she worked as a maid for smoeone she had met in london.
She stayed in Liverpool for approx 18 months. While there, she met a businessman who was welsh and married him. They moved to wales with elizabeth.
In 1892, they had a boy called james, and in 1896 a girl called nancy.
more to follow as soon as i can collate it
kelly jones |
Author: Thomas Ind
Wednesday, 12 July 2000 - 08:19 am | |
| What was the name of the businessman she met? |
Author: Diana
Wednesday, 12 July 2000 - 08:31 am | |
| What was the musician's name and would he want to get rid of her badly enough to kill her? |
Author: Thomas Ind
Wednesday, 12 July 2000 - 09:45 am | |
Kelly
What country are you in
If in the UK can I come round and have a look at the documents? |
Author: Oliver Franz
Wednesday, 12 July 2000 - 10:26 am | |
Kelly,
if what you say is true, then we still have a badly mutilated body at 13 Miller's Court. If it was not Mary Jane, who then was it? One would gather a prostitute friend of hers. Yet, wouldn't we have heard somehow of a woman that disappeared around that time - particulary at the height of the Ripper panic? Also what do you make of the fact that both Joseph Barnett and John McCarthy positively identified the body as that of Mary? I guess they were in on it, too?
I'll admit that while all of what you say sounds intriguing, I have a hard time believing it. |
Author: Christopher T George
Wednesday, 12 July 2000 - 11:42 am | |
Hello Kelly:
This sounds to me as if you are talking about a different Mary Kelly. I have a distinct feeling there is a confusion of names here and that your forebear is not the Mary Jane Kelly who was supposedly a victim of the Whitechapel murderer.
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: Christopher T George
Wednesday, 12 July 2000 - 12:22 pm | |
Hi Kelly:
I am sorry to be one of the skeptical brigade, but as you can imagine Mary Jane Kelly possibly generates both the most interest and controversy of any of the victims. In truth I agree that we should probably all wait until you provide to us your forebear's full story as you know it. However, I would like to react to one piece of the story you have already related to us.
You stated: "Mary did leave the east end in a hurry but not until 5 days after the millers court murder. she collected her daughter elizabeth and travelled to canada.... Once in canada, she caught the next available boat to the uk."
I wonder if that could be true? If the person you are talking about is Mary Jane Kelly whose name has been in all the newspapers in Great Britain and abroad, and who was the woman whom many people think was supposedly brutally murdered and mutilated, why would she want to return to England immediately?
The other aspect of this is that if what you say is true, that she took a steamship in November to Canada, this must have been a pretty awful winter time ocean passage, with a small child. Do you have any conception what a winter ocean voyage in a steamship in 1888 would have been like? Having sailed to the United States in January 1955 at age six, on board the Cunard liner Saxonia from Liverpool to New York, undoubtedly in more salubrious conditions than Mary would have experienced, who was most probably in steerage (think of the scenes of the steerage passengers in the recent movie "Titanic"), and when I was deathly ill with the rough passage, I would doubt that a person would want to up and repeat the experience, again with a small four-year-old child. Do you have documents to prove that Mary did in fact take one ship to Canada in November 1888 and immediately afterward take another ship back to England? Also where did she obtain the money to purchase the ticket for a return trip?
Chris George |
Author: Simon Owen
Wednesday, 12 July 2000 - 06:18 pm | |
Dr Ind I would drop everything to be there next to you to view those documents. Kelly , would it be possible for me to view the documents as well ?
Only if you are in the UK mind , I haven't got the money - or a passport at the present time , its just expired ! - to travel abroad.
I wonder if it was Walter Sickert who was the father of Mary's first daughter. He wasn't a musician apart from a bit of scratching on the violin , but he was an actor and painter which is reasonably close. He had contacts in Dieppe and Paris , knew France well and according to the Sickert story he was the one responsible for getting Mary to Canada.
Was Mary in Liverpool in 1891 ? If so , we can trace her on the 1891 census and the 1901 census will not be long coming out too. Did she use an assumed surname ?
There may well have been a confusion between two Mary Kellys here , but maybe Kelly is not wrong. Imagine. Two Mary Kellys living in close proximity - what if the Ripper was hunting one and ended up killing the other ?
My questions are then :
(i) What did Mary Kelly look like c.1888 - hair colour , height , eye colour , distinguishing features etc
(ii) Where did she stay during those five days left in England before she went to Canada ?
(iii) Was she ever a nanny and did she ever work in a confectioners shop ?
Simon |
Author: Jon
Wednesday, 12 July 2000 - 08:19 pm | |
Dont worry Simon, if the claim is supportable...the whole story will come out. If it isnt, you wont have missed anything.
Jon
(Is there room for two diary's?) |
Author: Wolf Vanderlinden
Wednesday, 12 July 2000 - 11:31 pm | |
Christopher-George, Kelly Jones is telling us that there is no confusion about who her ancestor is, the Mary Kelly of Ripper fame. In her post of Friday, July 7, 2000 - 06:02 am:, she tells us that not only does she know the true identity of the Ripper, but that she has proof in the form of letters sent to Kelly. I smell conspiracy theory here, (what a surprise).
Wolf. |
Author: Wolf Vanderlinden
Wednesday, 12 July 2000 - 09:31 am | |
Christopher-George, Kelly Jones is telling us that there is no confusion about who her ancestor is, the Mary Kelly of Ripper fame. In her post of Friday, July 7, 2000 - 06:02 am:, she tells us that not only does she know the true identity of the Ripper, but that she has proof in the form of letters sent to Kelly. I smell conspiracy theory here, (what a surprise).
Wolf. |
Author: Wolf Vanderlinden
Wednesday, 12 July 2000 - 11:32 pm | |
D'oh!!
Wolf. |
Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 13 July 2000 - 02:01 am | |
Hi Wolf:
Would that be D'Oh-nston???? :-)
Chris |
Author: Thomas Ind
Thursday, 13 July 2000 - 04:39 am | |
| Kelly. Where are you? I need my MJK fix. |
Author: kelly jones
Thursday, 13 July 2000 - 06:08 am | |
hi everyone.
just to clear up a couple of points..
1. no conspiracy
2. no new diary
3. the man mary married was called albert carter
4. whilst a maid in liverpool, mary did look after the persons children but she never described herself as a nanny
whilst in liverpool she used the name kelly jones, jones being her mothers maiden name.
5. .
6. On more than one occasion to elizabeth mary said she feared for her life.
7. my real name is kelly jones, not a made up name.
8. yes i do have a photo of mary taken in 1919 and i when i scan it you are all welcome to see it.
9. the body in the house. mary always claimed that the body in millers court was that of brigitte. mary had fled to brigitte's but whilst there realised that her crucifix was missing. Aparantly, the day before she woke up and found the crucufix on the bed, the chain having broken. She forgot to take it with her to brigittes and sent brigitte to get it as she feared for her life.
Yes i am in the uk and when i have posted the full tale on here anyone is more than welcome to see and examint the documents.
A brief parting note
Mary had elizabeth
elizabeth had harry in 1914 and beth in 1915.
Liz married a propery owner (James House) from the isle and moved there.
Beth married John Robinson from the mainland in 1938 and had a child in 1940. John was killed in the war.
The child was my mother (margaret).
She married Charles Jones (my father) in 1966 and myself and my sister are the result.
Kelly Jones |
Author: Jill De Schrijver
Thursday, 13 July 2000 - 07:05 am | |
Hi Kelly,
9.This means according to what you're telling us, that the day before someone knew how to enter her room, and intruded on her while sleeping?
-> Was that the onset why she feared for her life?
-> If there was no conspiracy, then this suggests JtR was already searching for his victims long before the murder
-> If JtR had seen Mary sleeping, how then did he kill the wrong woman?
Greetings,
Jill |
Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 13 July 2000 - 11:18 am | |
Hello Kelly:
If you are right and the Mary you are talking about is the Mary Jane Kelly of the Whitechapel murders, then of course this is dynamite, particularly if you are able to name the Ripper as you say you can from Mary's letters.
A couple of points in regard to the numbered points in your post of this morning at 6:08 am:
5. . Why no information for "5"?
9. the body in the house. mary always claimed that the body in millers court was that of brigitte. mary had fled to brigitte's but whilst there realised that her crucifix was missing. Aparantly, the day before she woke up and found the crucufix on the bed, the chain having broken. She forgot to take it with her to brigittes and sent brigitte to get it as she feared for her life.
What is Brigitte's last name? Are you saying that Brigitte was murdered when she went back for the crucifix?
Thanks in advance for your clarification of these points.
Chris George |
Author: Jon Eva
Thursday, 13 July 2000 - 11:54 am | |
Hi Jill,
I read point 9 of Kelly's post to simply mean that the chain had snapped off during the night, hence she put it somewhere to mend later and forgot to take it with her when she fled.
It was interesting that "Kelly Jones" was used as a pseudonym by MJK.
I've only been visiting this site for a week or so, it's exciting to see a story unfolding before our eyes, whether or not it turns out to be genuine!
Jon Eva |
Author: Jill De Schrijver
Thursday, 13 July 2000 - 12:31 pm | |
Hi Jon,
Welcome then, and enjoy the further developments, whatever their result. |
Author: Jim Leen
Thursday, 13 July 2000 - 12:32 pm | |
Hello Everybody,
Christopher T, you make a valid point about the ocean crossing. It once took me 27, yes count them, twenty-seven days to get to New York from Glasgow. Ah those were the days. I'd still rather risk occasions of that nature than sit in a jumbo jet for five hours though! However some people are made from sterner stuff than cowardly me. Leonard Norris(?) for instance promptly made another transatlantic voyage mere days after being rescued from the Titanic.
Kelly, is the Brigitte that was murdered the same person that looked after and brought up the infant Elizabeth? Answers please, (feeble Radio 4 joke), and I hope that you don't wilt underneath the onslaught of scepticism and impatience. I, for one, can hardly wait for the next instalment.
Thanking you
Jim Leen |
