Author: R.J. Palmer
Friday, 09 June 2000 - 10:16 am |        |
Chris--I tend to agree with you, though I'm still studying David's arguments. If the bed was pulled away from the wall to take Photo #2, wouldn't the pile of bedclothes, seemingly shoved against the wall in Photo #1, have fallen to the floor? But there they are IN THE SAME POSITION in Photo #2. I think they rest on a small shelf, table, or washstand. Note the angles of the wood panels on the wall near the post of the bed in Photo #1. Doesn't the wall jut in about 8-12 inches, creating a space between the bed and the wall?
Many thanks to Roger O'Donnell.
RJP |
Author: Roger O'Donnell
Friday, 09 June 2000 - 02:34 pm | |
| Glad to be of service. |
Author: Roger O'Donnell
Friday, 09 June 2000 - 02:54 pm | |
Further playing with the photo. Looking at perspectives, and ignoring the artifacts on the back wall, I've indicated where I think the corner of the room is(in red). This puts at least a foot bettween the bed and the far far wall. Not knowing the the lens of the camera is a limiting factor. This would mean the mid grey item next to the MJK's right leg is *on* the bed, rather than on an item next to it. I may have made the corner more vertical than it should be,due to spherical distortion of the lens, although there is no guarantee the bed, or floor, was level.
The more I look at MJK in this picture, the more she looks posed. For comparison, look at the Black Dahlia crime scene for 'murder as art'. It looks, to me, like a tableau. However please do not let my opinions colour your perception.
Any comments?
 |
Author: Christopher T George
Friday, 09 June 2000 - 08:39 pm | |
Hi Roger:
Indeed thanks for your hard work. I am glad you have marked in red in your latest posting the corner of the room, which supports what I am saying that there was a space between the bed and the wall, which R. J. Palmer estimates to be "about 8-12 inches." I am glad you both agree with me. However, I am not sure, Roger, that "the mid grey item next to the MJK's right leg is" as you think "*on* the bed, rather than on an item next to it." I think the mid grey item is indeed *beside* the bed, sitting most probably on the washstand, and comprises bedclothes (not a bolster as I said earlier -- I was thinking of the items on the other side of the bed). Those bedclothes drape down the front of the washstand toward the floor distorting perspective somewhat and making it seem as if the item is on the bed. As for what is *under* the bed, as queried by David Radka, it looks to me as if it could be an oval tin bathtub or washtub.
Chris George |
Author: Diana
Friday, 09 June 2000 - 09:58 pm | |
| Any chance of getting these pictures digitally enhanced to bring out more detail? |
Author: David M. Radka
Friday, 09 June 2000 - 10:27 pm | |
Notice how I'm referred to as "David Radka" when everyone else is referred to by their first name in a friendly way. I try my best to share with others, only to find them repaying me by treating me like something the cat brought in. It takes no courage to do that.
I have made no "query" concerning what was under the bed, either, washtub or not. Why such a query is attributed to me I don't know--perhaps to get me off the boards.
Have a nice weekend.
David |
Author: stephen stanley
Saturday, 10 June 2000 - 01:15 am | |
Since the bed frame on the nearer side lines up with the edge of the head-board, it would logically do the same on the further side, therefore definately a gap between bed and wall, about a foot, maybe?
Steve s. |
Author: Thomas Ind
Saturday, 10 June 2000 - 05:09 am | |
| I know this has been discussed before else where and this is off the thread slightly but look at MJKs left femur in the left hand photo. JTR has cut through the top of it with a clean swipe. No knife could do that. |
Author: Roger O'Donnell
Saturday, 10 June 2000 - 06:29 am | |
Janice,
Someone will have to be allowed access to the original pictures for scanning, since the resolution of the ones on the board is pretty low res for that kind of analysis. I've played with some enhancement
but it really just shows up the limitations of the source.
Christopher,
The object under the bed, which was not queried by David, is a wash tub. There is a bolster on the table in photo 2, next to the suggestive empty area.
And a personal note to David.
I have both enjoyed and valued your contributions. Long may we hunt together :)
Roger |
Author: Christopher T George
Saturday, 10 June 2000 - 08:00 am | |
To David Radka:
Sorry, I believe I confused you with someone else whom I thought had brought up the question of what was under the bed. I would be glad to call you "David" but since the query I believed you had raised was some messages back I chose to refer to you as David Radka. David, I consider you an intelligent and interesting contributor to these boards. There is certainly no intent on my part to drive you from the boards. I enjoy your presence. It is grand to have your company on the great quest.
It was Diana whose query I thought I was answering and indeed she had not been questioning what was under the bed anyway! To quote her message of June 8 at 6:13 pm, "I just noticed the thing on the floor under the table in the right hand photo. Any ideas on what it is?" Diana, I am not sure what it is -- a piece of clothing? bed clothes? A lump or lumps of flesh? *shudder*
Chris George |
Author: Leanne Perry
Saturday, 10 June 2000 - 08:19 am | |
G'day Diana and everyone,
The 'thing on the floor, under the table' could be one of the 'flaps', removed from the abdomen and thighs, as Chris suggests. It could have been sitting on top of the pile.
Dr. Bond didn't mention the existence of any 'flaps' on the floor, so maybe it fell off, when the door was forced open.
Dr. Phillips: "On the door being opened, it knocked against a table".
Leanne! |
Author: Ashling
Saturday, 10 June 2000 - 08:43 am | |
Hi everyone. Great topic.
ROGER: Excellent work! A few thoughts:
1. Undecided on the washstand issue.
2. The red line probably needs to be moved towards the right to the vertical "line" that's to the left of the headboard ... still allows for possibility of a washstand considering the skewed camera angle. (I finally see what you're talking about Chris. Duh!)
3. The interior door (sealed up) which originally linked Mary's room to the rest of the house might be in the space between the headboard and Mary's right knee. The interior doors of my (old) house look just this door ...
If you move the red line to the right slightly, you have the hinge edge of the interior door, and the doorknob edge of the door is where the so-called cross on the wall shows (or perhaps vice-versa).
The right "goalpost" of the "H" that Leanne mentions on another board is the left vertical side of a recessed square in the door. The edges of the square are beveled (look like tiny staircases with 3 or 4 steps.) There are two such squares, one set above the other which comprise most of the door space. (Each square is 39 inches north to south and 20 and a half inches across.)
On my doors the panel running horizontally between the two squares measures 6 and a half inches north to south. The horizontal panels at the top and bottom of the door measure 4 inches north to south. The vertical panels running from the top of the door to the bottom measure 4 inches left to right.
The overall size of my door is 80 inches high by 30 inches wide.
Worth consideration?
Janice
P.S.
I think it was Diana that inquired about digital enhancement. |
Author: Christopher T George
Saturday, 10 June 2000 - 08:54 am | |
Hi, Tom:
Isn't the cut on MJK's right leg not her left? As shown in the larger photograph, her left leg appears to be pretty much untouched.
Chris |
Author: Roger O'Donnell
Saturday, 10 June 2000 - 02:52 pm | |
Ashling,
Thanks for the comments.
Firstly, my apologies to Diana. Blame my advancing years.
Your comments on the red corner line. You may well be right. The artifacts on the 'rear' wall', and those above the bed head give a confusing, possibly misleading, geometry to the room. I tried several different geometries, and settled on that as a median. The room, looking at the bed head, is far from square. Your choice was one i looked at, and it wasnt dismissed, just averaged :)
Tom,
Could you mark up Picture 1 to show where you mean?
Christopher,
The Right thigh appears to be denuded, starting with a circular cut just above the RH knee, rather like the ones that removed the breasts. Possible significance?
A plea for help. I cannot resolve the left leg properly to see if the position of the body mirrors that of Catherine Eddows. Could some one help?
Thx
Roger |
Author: Thomas Ind
Saturday, 10 June 2000 - 04:54 pm | |
 |
Author: Thomas Ind
Saturday, 10 June 2000 - 05:04 pm | |
So my upload worked
On the right hand photo, it looks like the left thigh is not badly damages. However we know it is from Dr bonds report that it was;
'The left thigh was stripped of skin, fascia & muscle as far as the knee'
The white box demonstrated the top of the femur. The area boxed shows bone which is completely cut through. So the clean swipe which appears to be in one movement is from the knee to the vulva and involved hard bone at the hip just below the neck of the femur. There are no orthopaedic surgeons in the hospital I work so I can't show it to anybody but it is so obvious to me I would be pretty red in the face if I was wrong. |
Author: R.J. Palmer
Saturday, 10 June 2000 - 05:18 pm | |
Maybe I'm seeing it wrong, but I'm wondering if there should be TWO red lines, one where already indicated, and one to the right.
Does the extreme corner of the room protrude out, possibly due to some support to the stairwell that is located on the other side of the wall (in Miller's Court #26)? Ie., the corner has a large beam projecting out from it, and though the top portion of the bed is flush against the far wall, it leaves a 10" space running parallel to the far side of the bed. The apartment I live in has similar odd features, having been divided into several apartments from an existing house. I hope this makes sense.
If Photo #1 was taken AFTER Photo #2, and the foot of the bed was pulled out slightly, it might also account for the odd appearance of the corner.
Quite possibly it is clear in the original?
RJP |
Author: Thomas Ind
Saturday, 10 June 2000 - 05:26 pm | |
I can't draw to save my life. Here is an attempt at a sketch, Have I got this right?
 |
Author: Thomas Ind
Saturday, 10 June 2000 - 05:29 pm | |
 |
Author: Thomas Ind
Saturday, 10 June 2000 - 05:36 pm | |
Please excuse my inability to draw. I seem to have labelled two items on the left hand photo as 5. Sorry. The top one is the pillow and I wont mention it again as it is not on the right hand photo. Have I got this right?
If so;
1 Left neck of femur
2 Left knee
3 Left wrist
4 Bedding to right of right knee
5 Above right knee and garter on item of clothing
6 Left shoulder |
