Archive through June 10, 1999

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Archive through June 10, 1999

Casebook Message Boards: Ripper Suspects: Specific Suspects: Later Suspects [ 1910 - Present ]: Barnett, Joseph: Archive through June 10, 1999

Author: Leanne Monday, 26 April 1999 - 05:37 pm
G'day Mathew, Thanks, I didn't know that! I learn something new every day!!!!!
Author: Leanne Tuesday, 27 April 1999 - 03:16 am
G'day, Mathew, I just did what you said and my email bounced back!
Author: RLeen Tuesday, 27 April 1999 - 11:09 am
Hello All, I was wondering if anyone could be so kind as to reveal any connection between Joe Barnett and the mysterious George Hutchinson,(he of the extremely detailed description of JTR). Is it possible that the men were perhaps related to one another? Were they friends? Did they even know each other? Any assistance to this enquiry would be greatly appreciated. Thanking you for your consideration. Rabbi Leen
Author: Bruce Paley Tuesday, 27 April 1999 - 06:56 pm
Rabbi L and people - I imagine that you base your presumption that Hutchinson and Barnett might have known one another on the "fact" that they both knew Kelly. But I found Hutchinson to be a rather dodgy character, and believe he was one of those people who were simply interested in getting a share of the limelight that came with even a fringe involvement in the notorious case. I've touched on this in my book; in any case, if Hutchinson was legit, why did he wait until just after Kelly's inquest was wrapped up before coming forward? Was this because his testimony might not have held up under close scrutiny? And even if he did know Kelly as he claimed (being dead, she could hardly dispute this) he would most likely have only known her as a client, in which case he probably wouldn't have come into contact with Barnett. And just to take it one step further, the man he claimed to have seen loitering outside Kelly's room may have actually been Barnet, waiting for Kelly to finish with her customer before letting himself into the room to see her. Incidentally Caz, I'm not "plugging" my book, nor have I any axe to grind. I get 67p per copy sold, so I'd have to do an awful lot of plugging and grind an awful lot of axes to even make a tenner! Some people agree with me, some don't, it really doesn't matter. Even Colin Wilson, who wrote the introduction to my book, does not agree with me, but has nevertheless been incredibly supportive of my work. I got into this too for the pure thrill of the chase, so to speak, the excitement of doing the research and closing in on my quarry. In fact, after I did my first article proposing that Barnett was the Ripper in 1982, I returned to New York and used the experience I had gained studying criminals and criminology and researching the article as the basis of a five year stint as a private detective. One more thing - Leanne, you wished me good luck on my next book. Well, I need it! I recently spent a year writing a tragi-comic satirical novel about a rock band and the music business. I think its the best thing I've written, but while there's been some interest in it, publishers here seem to be afraid of both satire and "rock books", so it hasn't been published yet. (In fact several have told me they would be interested if I did a serial killer thriller, so rather than starve and be homeless, I'm now plotting one out) But if anyone out there knows of a sympathetic publisher anywhere for my rock satire, my first born son (and %10 ([seriously]) is yours! Help people!
Author: Julian Tuesday, 27 April 1999 - 07:47 pm
G'day Bruce, I dunno if it's any good mate, cause you've been around a lot longer than I have, but the enquires I've made to get my book published have lead me to the University. At least they had they decency to look sincere when I was talking to them before rolling around on the ground clutching their stomaches after I left. I can still hear the sounds of unsupressed mirth echoing down that silent hallway, as with shoulders slumped and a tear in my eye I trudged wearily through the blackened, cold and misty back streets of Australia's Capital, searching for inspiration from the inside of an empty bottle of Scotch. Anyway mate it might be worth asking, I dunno. Good luck anyway. Jules
Author: Christopher T. George Tuesday, 27 April 1999 - 09:37 pm
Greetings, Bruce: Glad to see you are on-line. Good luck with your rock novel. Jules's suggestion of a university press I believe is a very good one. In any case you could possibly benefit from trying a smaller publisher than a big-time one. If your novel takes off, a big-time concern will snap it up soon enough. While I am not sure I can buy your theory that Barnett was Jack, I think he is a better bet than Hutchinson. Thanks for contributing a most interesting book to the Ripperological literature! I especially appreciate your well-written account of social conditions of the day. Chris George
Author: Caz Wednesday, 28 April 1999 - 06:58 am
Oh God, Bruce, please don't think my comments were meant as insults to any published authors, all of whom I admire deeply. Far from it, I'd love to be one myself one day. I wanted merely to explain why and how I started with as open a mind as I possibly could on the subject of JtR. That's all. I am also aware that Paul Begg wrote a foreword in a certain ripper book, the content of which in no way did he endorse, although there are those who will read between the lines to make two and two make half a dozen! If I were dead rich, you would be on my wish list for help to publish your satirical rock number (sounds right up my alley, or around my Amen Corner if you will!) I already want to help a few thousand people out with such projects if I get half a chance, including Julian's extremely important work on human violence (I have read his draft), which should be compulsory in all schools IMHO. Whether serious or entertaining, these talents should be recognised but it's the old old story of money and who you know, rather than what you know. I guess it's an uphill struggle for us all. I give you my word here publicly to help out as much as I can should my own fortunes take enough of an upturn in the future. All good wishes, Love, Caz (serious face)
Author: RLeen Wednesday, 28 April 1999 - 12:37 pm
Hello Mr Paley and all, I am afraid you misconstrued my last posting. I am interested in the actions of Hutchinson specifically, as you mentioned, why his incredibly detailed story surfaced rather long after the murder. I would have assumed that a proponent of the Barnett theory would have read between the lines, as it were. That is, did Hutchinson attempt to deflect attention from another suspect. Someone that he knew well perhaps ? That is the crux of my posting which, again, was a question not a statement. Thanking you for your consideration. Rabbi Leen
Author: Jeff D Wednesday, 28 April 1999 - 01:04 pm
Dear Mr. Paley (& Everybody) ! Just 1-quick question ? Have you ever unearthed any criminal or mental record of Joseph Barnett whether prior to, or after 1888? If we assume he was fired from his job at the fish market for theft (Big ?), maybe he was involved in other activities that might have brought him to the attention of the police. I have many suspicions about Barnett, and he is well up on my list of suspects, but anybody who did what they did to Mary Kelly could not simply revert to a clean, quiet existence up unto 1926, and it is this element that is my biggest apprehension about suspecting poor old Joe. I realise this is probably an obvious question. If there was any criminal record I'm sure it would have come to light somewhere, somehow, although, then again, people did use the odd alias' when in the presence of the law didn't they ? And someone who was actually used to the company of prostitutes, along with the many other dodgy types that lived and roamed Whitechapel in those days, must certainly have risked the odd indiscretion, yeh ? Welcome aboard, and I sincerely hope you will contribute to the crank element of Ripper research ! Jeff D PS; Thanks to everyone for the welcome back. I really was a very sick puppy there for a while but although I do have to take it a little easy, am well on the mend now !
Author: Bruce Paley Wednesday, 28 April 1999 - 09:59 pm
Julian & Christopher et al Thanks for your suggestions, but University Press is an area of publishing I'm unfamiliar with - did you have any particular one in mind? I also thought that Barnett might have had a criminal record of some sort, and while its been a long time now, I do seem to recall that criminal records were something that wasn't open to the general public. I also wondered what Barnett did during his "lost years" from 1888-1906. I did finally receive a letter froma man (since deceased0 claiming that he was a descendant of Joseph Barnett, and he sent me some documentation to back up his claim. The problem is - as Paul Harrison found out - that there were three Joseph Barnetts born within a couple of years of one another, so one has to be very careful not to get the wrong Barnett. This man also filled me in on what Barnett did after the Whitechapel murders, though this is something that requires going to Lancaster for a bit more research, something that time and financial constraints prohibit me from doing right now. But if anyone wants to give it a go, they can email me at bpaley@compuserve.com. (Incidentally Leanne, I got your friend's email but not yours) I just today got to some correspondence on this page going back to November 98, so I'd like to say thanks for the kind wods and intelligent comments to Erik Nylund and Peter McKeever and everyone else. This kind of feedback is greatly appreciated. Lastly, gremlins keep bouncing me out of this page - or are they angry ghosts?
Author: Julian Wednesday, 28 April 1999 - 10:19 pm
G'day everyone, Hey Jeff, I've found that lots of TLC helps for a speedy recovery. As for Barnett being fired for stealing, I reckon it must have been for something a bit more serious than that. After all, what's he going to steal from a fish market? He'd look pretty silly trying to walk out of the place with Tuna stuffed down his pants. I guess if he was caught stealing money that might be a bit different, but if that was the case wouldn't the theftee/s just beat the crap out of him and tell him to piss off? He had been there for over 10yrs (I believe) and in that amount of time he would have made some pretty good mates. With unemployment the way it was back then, I reckon if you didn't get along with your work mates you'd be out of there pretty quickly. Nah, it must have been something serious for him to have his licence cancelled. Then again he could have been a bit of a shark who didn't know his plaice and refused to see the sturgeon after destroying his soul. Sorry, that's the best I could do. Jules
Author: Caz Thursday, 29 April 1999 - 03:50 am
Hi All! We do keep coming back to fish, don't we? I used to trundle up Fish Street Hill most days when I worked near The Monument. Am I right in assuming it was so named because of its proximity to Billingsgate as was? The pavement (or sidewalk) was always being washed down in those days. My suspect for Jack, Weedon Grossmith, is actually recounting his own fishing stories to me at present in his autobiography dated 1913. There are an awful lot of big Jack mentioned (apparently always called Pike in Ireland). He talks about fishing near Birmingham with a City Solicitor, pursuing the "Gentle Art". (When he fishes by himself he refers to his hobby as a solitary vice, hmmm...) Anyway, his companion is now having probs with 'the rod he was handling; it was a short, stiff Jack rod,....and hiding behind a bush he was dabbing or dipping it in a pool....I put down my own rod and handled his very fine expensive one and showed him how to work the fly out, and after I had done it several times he tried and in about twenty minutes he not only got the fly out but, to his great delight, he succeeded in landing a small fish.' Weedon concludes his fishing stories by saying 'I know of no sensation so hatefully disappointing, after a tremendous run, and the sharp tugs nearly pulling the rod out of your hand, suddenly to find it slack! [This in italics] For the moment everything in life has gone, and as you stand holding your rod, with a long, loose line hanging in the water, you feel such an ass. And it does n't [sic] make things better when your friends suggest that you should have kept your rod more upright'.... Bearing in mind Weedon's wacky sense of humour, one wonders to which sport he is actually alluding. Any ideas all you anglers out there? Sorry for digressing, just thought you might like the anecdotes. Where were we? Oh yes, Joe Barnett, or, should that be pluralised? Do we know if all three Joes we are aware of had connections with Mary Jane? Have we pointed the finger at the right one to begin with? I too have problems with the 'first' Joe. He loved/hated a woman so much that he was capable of that terrible ferocity, then simply returns to 'normal' at some stage? Serial killers can do this by detaching themselves from the crime itself (hence they tend to pick victims with whom there is no emotional involvement). But crimes of passion usually end up with the killer being caught almost red-handed (like Ruth Ellis) because they are out of control. Or else they give themselves up/commit suicide when the guilt and enormity of their crime kicks in. In other words I can't imagine your average kipper-stealing employee enjoying another good night's sleep if Mary's death was really down to him. I think we are looking for either a cool, hard, egomaniacal SK who lived to kill another day, or some crazy mixed-up person who wouldn't see many more months on the planet one way or t'other. Apologies for the unusually long post. Love, Caz
Author: Julian Thursday, 29 April 1999 - 07:39 pm
G'day Caz, everyone, No worries Caz, it'll just take a bit of time to mullet over. Jules
Author: Bruce Paley Thursday, 29 April 1999 - 07:45 pm
Julian et al - I'm in London, actually, but I wouldn't mind an Ozzie publisher - or one from any other country actually. By the way, I'm having tremendous difficulty accessing this site, so anyone who wants to reach me please email me and include your return email address (if that's not automatically done) Thanks.
Author: Julian Thursday, 29 April 1999 - 08:10 pm
G'day Bruce, Leanne (Are you listening?) is currently involved with a community based publication and might be able to offer some leads for you. I'll get in touch with the Uni and see what I can do. I'll even help translating your stuff from English to Australian to help the publishers. As for the email, you could use the one I sent you as a vehicle to wizz back to me or you can get me on stuffedchicken99@yahoo.com.au Yes, that's my fair dinkum email address. I used to have another one but whenever I posted it, all these red dots appeared. Anyway I'll be in touch soon. Could someone add a couple more hours to the day please. Jules
Author: Julian Monday, 03 May 1999 - 02:08 am
G'day everyone, Check ya emails Bruce. Thanks to whoever it was that found those extra hours for me. I owe you one incredible hang-over. I was down my local on Saturday night and checked out the clock which said it was about 8.30 so I thought I'd be able to squeeze another beer in before going home. I had a look at the clock after that beer and it was still about 8.30 so I though, you bloody beauty, my wish has come true. Some 16 beers later it was still about 8.30 so I thought I'd better have an early one and staggered of in the general direction of the taxi rank trying to impersonate a fire engine. Jules
Author: Bruce Paley Monday, 03 May 1999 - 05:40 pm
Chris George + Julian + Leanne + Jeffrey et al - This is all new to me. I sent you an email, Chris, which bounced back. I'll try again. Thanks for your efforts, Julian. I'm sure there's a sympathetic publisher out there...somewhere...I think The Aliens (my rock satire) is the best thing I've written, but publishers here seem so reticent to try anything different, despite the success of my Ripper book. But these things can take time. I spoke to Colin Wilson about this recently, and his advice was to put a lot of sex in it, preferably starting with page one. Leanne I'm still not sure I got your entire message, but I appreciate your sentiments - and everyone else. I suddenly feel that I have this whole support network behind me that I didn't know about a few weeks ago. Anyway, you might be aware that Barrett recently spoke at the Cloak & Dagger club here in London. I haven't got a full report yet, but I understand he said the same thing he's always been saying, i.e. that he and his wife forged the diary, and I'm sure he's telling the truth. They have a website, but I haven't got their address at the moment. Thanks for your email, Jeffrey. Today the ghosts and gremlins are at bay, but its probably best for you or anyone else to email me, becasue they've probably just takn the Bank Holiday weekend off. By the way, what exactly is casebook? Cheers everybody.
Author: Caz Tuesday, 04 May 1999 - 05:17 am
Hi Bruce, Check out Adam Wood's post of 29th April on the General Discussion Board: Cloak & Dagger Gasbags. This will give you an address to click your mouse on to find the report on the Mike Barrett evening. Yep, I guess if you put oodles of sex in anything you are working on, from page one, sales will come, sooner rather than later (excuse the pun). Blimey, I should have been charging for y'all to read some of my own garbage on these Casebook Message Boards! Or have the jokes suffered in the translation into American and Aussie? I get the feeling they are missed totally in some quarters (grin). Perhaps I should be trying harder. Best of luck with finding a publisher. Love, Caz
Author: Jason Thursday, 10 June 1999 - 10:21 am
I believe that Joe Barnett was Jack the Ripper. Interesting thought came up to my mind. Joseph was a fish porter, right. When he used to prowse fish in a marketplace he might thought that fishes were whores and used same prowsing method when he killed his victims(cut fish head-open stomach- remove kidneys). I think this is interesting point... Finally questions: Has any seriel killer -profiler ever investigate Jack the Rippers case? I would like to hear results... Does anyone have any clue why Jack was creating a cross symbol over Whitechapel? Doesn`t that tell something about the number of victims?
Author: D. Radka Thursday, 10 June 1999 - 07:55 pm
Jason, If we see a man wearing a red tie, it means we may presume he likes the taste of apples, right? Apples are red, his tie is red, therefore he likes the taste of apples. One plus one is two. David