Author: julian
Wednesday, 10 February 1999 - 08:52 pm |        |
G'day R.Michael and everyone.I just thought I'd better clarify some stuff in case I'm adding to the confusion.
As to Jack having multiple personalities, that is not what I meant. I meant that with Jack being a mutilator and a poisoner, he would have to be two different people not two different characters in the same person. The little work and study I have done with people with multiple personalities indicates that the other personalities come to the fore when the original personality is confused, feels threatened or needs to adapt to an unusual environment. These are survival techniques, they are not and should not be confused with predatory agressiveness which was a personality trait that Jack had.
As to jack being a pimp. I don't think so. The other girls working the streets would have put him in after the first murder, he would have been known to all of them, he would have been known to the men around the area who would also have put him in if they were suspicious (if not lynched him). As for the women meeting him to give over their nights earnings, what earnings? These women often didn't have enough to pay for their doss and, meaning no disrespect, they were not up there with the best of Miss Middle Aged 1888.
As for the open abuse I wasn't necessarily indicating that he bashed his partners as he was walking down the street insomuch as he didn't try to hide the fact that he was bashing them. He bashed them with witnesses in the house ie: Mrs Annie Helsdown, and even the neighbours heard him bashing his wives and lovers.
I hope this has clarifies some issues which I raised earlier.
Jules |
Author: Julian
Thursday, 11 February 1999 - 05:49 pm | |
G'day,
Um, is he related to Jack or something?
Jules |
Author: Anonymous
Thursday, 11 February 1999 - 06:12 pm | |
hello there everyone
Related? Now there is an interesting question! Was his real name Chapman? Wouldn't that be interesting!!! |
Author: Ashling
Thursday, 11 February 1999 - 07:56 pm | |
Hi all. Last night I Bought Sugden's THE COMPLETE HISTORY OF JACK THE RIPPER, Rev. 1995 paperback edition. Stayed up well past my bedtime reading.
I'm going to photocopy the map towards the front of the book & blow it up to 11 x 17 size. I'm as excited as a little kid on Christmas Eve.
R. MICHAEL -- Sorry I misled you about maps. They don't show individual house or business numbers - they're "aerial view" highway maps. Typing in a specific address will zoom you into street level & give a map running 6 or 8 blocks in all four directions. Typing in 118 Commercial Street or 130 Commercial Street gave a view of the streets surrounding the Mary Kelly murder site. Typing in 126 Commercial Street & indeed all numbers in the 120 block brought up - "No listing ... would you like to see 126 Commercial ROAD?" If you still want the info, I'll get up a list of web page addresses ... Be forewarned, I'm in the USA, in Alabama - Some of these sites might be unavailable in Europe, etc. You said you don't live in London
- are you in the UK?
There are city directories that list individual house & business numbers & who lives there. Kelly's Directory is mentioned elsewhere on the Message Boards. Kelly's is available at libraries in UK & online, but probably charge a fee for Internet use.
Thanks for mentioning THE TRIAL OF GEORGE CHAPMAN.
My funds are limited, but I bumped it to the top of my "must buy" list.
JULES -- JtR/Chapman would only have to play pimp for one night. He talks to a prostitute in a bar, offers his protection, takes her outside & gives her a present. He charmingly persuades her to keep this "our little secret for right now." (Only maybe one somebody told Catherine Eddowes.) JtR/Chapman arranges to meet each of the women later that night -- and kills them.
This is just an interesting line of thought for me & I'm going to play it out - see where it leads. Even if it falls flat on its face as a theory, I might pick up some useable clues along the way.
Thanks for your input and ideas.
Ashling |
Author: Lee
Thursday, 11 February 1999 - 09:01 pm | |
R. Michael
Can you give us a new piece of information from your book before it is published?
Lee |
Author: Ashling
Friday, 12 February 1999 - 02:42 am | |
R. MICHAEL -- Oops! Just realized you're looking for 126 C-A-B-L-E Street, not Commercial Street. Commercial St. shows up constantly in Ripper reading & I guess my eyes played tricks on me -- gotta start getting more sleep. I typed in 126 Cable & a city map for the general area did come up, so hopefully it won't be too hard to identify.
Ashling |
Author: R. M. Gordon
Friday, 12 February 1999 - 03:46 pm | |
Good Afternoon everyone.
R. Michael here.
And a G'day to you Julian - What I ment to say was that a split personality for Jack would be an interesting study not that you agreed with it. I would like to see some work on it though. I do agree that Jack was not a pimp. He would be too easy to identify.
Hello Ashling - An internet address for the maps you wrote of would be nice. I await your input on 126 Cable Street with interest. As for my location, I live in Los Angeles, Calif, not far from the beach. I did at one time live in England for 18 months spending 12 months in Bournmouth on the south coast. My parents are from England.
Hello Lee - I would have thought that the information on Elizabeth Senior was new. At least I had not seen it published in any other book - except my own. It will not be the only new data in the work. How about this - there is a second witness to Carrie Brown's killer and there is another vicious attack which occured just before Chapman left the United States to return to England. Is that enough for now? I hope so, I don't want my editor to dispose of my body before the book is published!
Hello Caroline - You would not be investigating Albert Fish perhaps now would you?
Best to all
R. Michael Gordon |
Author: Rotter
Friday, 12 February 1999 - 09:16 pm | |
I don't suppose this proves anything but it is a legitimate question:
Much is made of various crimes being very close to Chapman. The case against him is strenghtened by (but not dependent on) his being in Whitechapel. So why, when he supposedly murders Carrie Brown, does he leave Jersey City, take a ferry across the Hudson, and go clear across Manhattan to find a victim? It is quite a trip,and since the ferries didn't run at night it meant staying over in New York. This means it is not important that he is close to his victims.
We can't talk about killers changing MO's to paper over anything that doesn't fit. Otherwise we have one killer who could be blamed for any kind of murder anywhere in the world. |
Author: R. M. Gordon (scce13920.csudh.edu - 155.135.2.40)
Sunday, 14 February 1999 - 05:17 pm | |
Hello Rotter, R. M. Gordon here.
Chapman did not have to leave New Jersey to kill Brown; he arrived at the docks of New York City, Brown was murdered at a waterfront hotel near the docks, THEN he continued on to New Jersey where he killed once again a few months later. He was just, as they say, passing through. And yes, it was a very legitimate question. I agree that it would not make a whole lot of sense to go out of his way to kill, it was not part of his MO. In fact, a close view of the bodies shows that they move as he does!
Now here's an interesting question for one and all. Would it not be interesting to find out that the Ripper and Chapman were one and the same but nether one of his personalities knew about the other one and when he said he did not know Klosowski that in his twisted mind he was telling the truth?
Just a passing thought.
Best to all.
R. Michael Gordon |
Author: Rotter
Sunday, 14 February 1999 - 05:27 pm | |
| Good answer. It would be nice to know the date of his arrival and where he arrived and lived. I believe the 1890 census is the one that was mostly destroyed in a fire so that wouldn't be much help. There is some work to be done here! But the New York docks were pretty extensive then. Where the Fourth Ward Hotel stood (it's a housing project parking lot now) wasn't near where the passenger ships came in, I believe. And if he came through Ellis Island (as an immigrant) he would be nowhere near there. Of course that doesn't mean he couldn't have lived on the Lower East Side for a while after arriving. It was a very Whitechapelesque neighborhood then. |
Author: D. Radka
Sunday, 14 February 1999 - 07:33 pm | |
Mr. Gordon,
Are you saying that Chapman was a paranoid schizophrenic?
David |
Author: Christopher T. George
Sunday, 14 February 1999 - 08:58 pm | |
Hi, R. M. --
In regard to the murder of Carrie Brown, you state:
"Chapman did not have to leave New Jersey to kill Brown; he arrived at the docks of New York City, Brown was murdered at a waterfront hotel near the docks, THEN he continued on to New Jersey where he killed once again a few months later. He was just, as they say, passing through."
Maybe you have evidence we do not, but it would seem to me on the surface that your approach is too all-inclusive: U.S. murders, European trunk murders, Ripper murders, Chapman's poisonings--the latter of which, as far as I can see, being the only ones that can be verifiably tied to Chapman.
As I told you earlier, I find Chapman intriguing as a suspect, but to attribute as many murders as you appear to, both Stateside and in Europe, seems perilous. Yes there was a murder, yes Chapman was in the neighborhood, but how do you categorically say that he did the murder? Just as some people doubt that Elizabeth Stride was a Ripper victim though Jack was about at the time, it is possible, perhaps even probable, that some or all of these murders that you attribute to Chapman were not committed by your suspect. Maybe your book will prove your case, but until I see your proof I must remain skeptical.
Chris George |
Author: Rotter
Monday, 15 February 1999 - 05:56 am | |
| I think too many theories try to be a Theory of Everything, tying up all the loose ends and involving all the murders, suspects, witnesses, etc.,etc.-paradoxically, the more complete these theories are the less likely they sound. |
Author: R. M. Gordon (scce13920.csudh.edu - 155.135.2.40)
Monday, 15 February 1999 - 03:15 pm | |
Good Afternoon one and all.
R. M. Gordon here.
General question - How come the long addresses on the board? I noticed someone's message was removed. Is that the reason?
Rotter - His date of arrival would be a critical item if it could be found - good luck. As for Ellis Island, it was not yet ready. He missed it by a year or two. I checked their files and he is not in them. It would have been very nice.
David - Paranoid schizophrenic - Perhaps, but it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to prove. It was just a thought off the top of my head. I did pass it through a doctor I know who said that it was possible but likely unprovable at this point in the game so there it must stand unless some new data should arrive.
Chris - The Brown murder is of course a timing thing among others. My statement is of course a movement theory based on what is possible. It is meant to show that he did not have to live in New Jersey and go over to New York to kill. If he did kill Brown he did it most likely as he passed through the area, rather than return there at a later time. It's a mental exercise more than anything else. The closeness of his projected arrival date does beg the question however, and does push the question to the forefront.
Interesting questions as always
R. M. Gordon |
Author: Nell (cache1.toronto.interlog.com - 209.20.42.6)
Monday, 15 February 1999 - 09:57 pm | |
| Who is your publisher Mr Gordon? And when is your book coming out? I'm sure it will be fascinating. |
Author: R. M. Gordon
Tuesday, 16 February 1999 - 07:54 pm | |
Nell R. M. Gordon here.
Good afternoon.
Three publishers have sent contracts for Alias - Jack the Ripper and I am looking at all of them. I hope to be able to let you know as soon as possible when it will be published. My agent is working the situation as we speak. We are also looking into a possible Spanish version. I will let this board know first before anyone else! The artist for the book says hello. His name is Roberto Edaurdo a California sculptor and fine artist.
Best to one and all.
R. Michael Gordon |
Author: R. M. Gordon
Thursday, 18 February 1999 - 08:16 pm | |
Good evening from R. Michael
Hello Ashling - How is the work coming on 126 Cable Street? Is it possible for you to post the map internet address for us?
Much thanks
R. Michael |
Author: Ashling
Saturday, 20 February 1999 - 07:24 am | |
Hi all!
R. MICHAEL --- I'm not ignoring you, just busy reading on 3 JtR books this week, plus doing a bit of library research. Here's the map URLs:
http://uk.multimap.com
http://www.mapquest.com
One picture is worth a thousand words ... You'll see for yourself that these can NOT give the kind of help you seek on 126 Cable Street.
Take care,
Janice |
Author: R. M. Gordon
Saturday, 20 February 1999 - 03:31 pm | |
Good afternoon from R. Michael
Hello Ashling - Thank you for the map addresses. They were most interesting.
And thank you Casebook staff for providing the easy link. Do you plan any other links to Ripper related web sites? That would be an interesting trip through web space. I found an interesting one a while back our readers may find of use. It's the crime library at www.crimelibrary.com or directly to the Ripper page at www.crimelibrary.com/jack/jackmain.htm have fun.
Best to all. R. M. Gordon |
Author: a
Thursday, 18 March 1999 - 04:20 pm | |
| Is anyone home? |
