Archive through 27 January 2003

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Archive through 27 January 2003

Casebook Message Boards: Ripper Suspects: Specific Suspects: Contemporary Suspects [ 1888 - 1910 ]: Druitt, Montague John: Archive through 27 January 2003

Author: Christopher T George Monday, 03 September 2001 - 10:00 am
Hi, Sabine: They are not, I believe, just cricket schedules--in regard to which, as you say, "you may actually play or not." The scores of the cricket matches were then and are now reported in the British newspapers. Thus, Druitt's batting scores and so on are recorded which prove he actually did play in the cricket matches in question. Best regards Chris George
Author: Jeff Bloomfield Monday, 03 September 2001 - 12:24 pm
I have a serious question here - I don't know if anyone can answer it. Although sports teams are notorious for having odd names (i.e.:the Brooklyn Dodgers was based on the image of players and fans in Brooklyn dodging trolley cars originally) why would an 1888 British cricket team be called "The Parsees". Were the members Anglo-Indians, or did they include actual Indians from India? And if so, why was the socially proper (on the surface) Montague Druitt playing for it? Given racial attitudes in 1888, it's a trifle weird. Jeff
Author: Simon Owen Monday, 03 September 2001 - 03:36 pm
I presume the members of the team would be followers of the Parsee religion Jeff , with guest players joining them for particular matches like Monty , to make up the numbers. I lived in Brookwood , Surrey (UK) a few years ago and there is a portion of the giant cemetary there given over to Parsee tombs - I imagine most of the players were Indians living in England. I don't think there would have been a racial problem - the English players would have been gentlemen or educated , some would have known Indians from university , and they would have respected the Parsees as players of ' the game '. IMHO.
Author: Christopher T George Monday, 03 September 2001 - 04:24 pm
Hi, Jeff and Simon: On the contrary, I think the cricket team known as the "Parsees" would have been a totally white team. As you probably know, it was common to dress up in fancy dress in those days. I have a picture postcard from the First World War of a mock band from when my grandfather was in the Lancashire Hussars. The photograph is captioned "L.H.D. Squadron Hindu Band" and features soldiers in turbans and robes. Needless to say all of the soldiers are white. I don't think the designation of a sports team with an ethnic identification is unusual: look at the Cleveland Indians and Atlanta Braves in the U.S.! Okay, strike what I just said! I wrote that before looking at the actual Bournemouth score card as well as one other match featuring the Parsees at http://www-uk.cricket.org/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/1880S/1888/OTHERS+ICC/PARSEES_IN_ENG/ It would seem from the names on the Parsees' team that this actually was a touring team from India. I thank Louis van Dompselaar for making these scorecards available. Jeff, are you sure Druitt played for the Parsees? The scorecard for 3-4 August 1888 shows he played for the Gentlemen of Bournemouth, scoring a dozen runs in the Gents' first innings, joint top scorer, and being the most successful bowler against the Parsees in their inning. Best regards Chris George
Author: Jeff Bloomfield Monday, 03 September 2001 - 08:35 pm
Chris, When I was reading Louis's first reference to the scorecard, it looked like Monty played for the Parsees, rather than against them. Of course, this now seems to have been my misreading what Louis wrote. Please keep in mind that my understanding of cricket is limited. You are right about the two baseball teams, but the Atlanta Braves are constantly receiving complaints from Native American groups about their team name as a slur against the American Indians. I suspect the same for the Cleveland team (expecially with their insignia of "Chief Wahoo") but it rarely is mentioned in the press. By the way, in 1888 the leading Cleveland team was known as the Cleveland Spiders, which eleven years later had the dubious distinction of being the worst team in the history of major league baseball. Jeff
Author: The Viper Tuesday, 04 September 2001 - 04:27 am
It was not by any means unknown for cricket teams to have unusual and in some cases exotic names. This was especially so if they were midweek 'scratch' sides who didn't have their own ground, but used to pick up touring fixtures against established clubs who did. The tradition survives to this day, though on a much smaller scale. For example, a well known cricket writer and broadcaster named E. W. Swanton used to run a team known as the Arabs. It doesn't follow that their players were from the Middle East! Regards, V.
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan Tuesday, 04 September 2001 - 08:43 am
Dear Simon, My more enlightened criminal collegues develop new techniques for the extraction of surplus value by means of an acute understanding of the Phenomenal World...and the Reality of Appearances. How does a man die and yet does not die in reality ...except that he die in appearances, only? Rosey :-)
Author: Sabine Maria Buechers Thursday, 06 September 2001 - 05:55 am
Hi, Chris and others, allright, so he did play Cricket in the autumn of 1888, but does any of the matches provide Druitt with a certain alibi for one of the murders? I mean does having been present during the match absolutely exclude that he could have gotten to/from London in time? How long did the journey take in his time? What if he rented a private coach? And something else: Why did the Cleveland Street Raid take place the year after - or was it two years after? - if it wasn't Druitt? If - when it came to putting himself at loggerheads with aukthorities - Abberline always rose to the occasion, the raid still must have happened out of pure necessity. Because after the murders, everybody concerned would have thought that things in Druitts happy circle of friends might be getting a bit out of control, and next time it would perhaps not be easy to hush things up. So the Home ministery gave Victoria a piece of their mind, and Prince Eddy was exposed to the Third Degree by - well, not by Mummy dearest, but by someone whith a weight to throw about. Abberline was told to go ahead in Cleveland Street and if (by Courtesy of Sir Melville?) none of England 's future élite was caught with their finger up - never mind that, it still served to tell them to lie low for a while. Which they seem to have done. What do you think about it?
Author: Louis van Dompselaar Sunday, 30 September 2001 - 05:37 am
Some additional comments on the Parsee cricketers, as there seems to be some confusion. The Parsees were a team from Bombay, led by a local doctor. They were touring England in 1888. The match at Bournemouth was "their fourth victory", according to 'Cricket: A Weekly Record of the Game' of Aug 9, 1888. The Parsees also toured England in 1886 and 'Cricket' included a farewell address by their captain. As this is a bit long, I won't include it here, but those interested can find it at http://dompselaar.org/parsee-farewell.html N.B. I also am not convinced the matches prove anything certain about Druitt, other than that he was a decent cricketer. But my main interest was making them available. Louis
Author: chris scott Wednesday, 20 November 2002 - 12:54 pm
MONTAGUE JOHN DRUITT - 1881 CENSUS I searched under the name of Druitt for Montague John but drew a blank. However, as he was by that time already teaching, I searched for George Valentine's school and found a full listing for staff, pupils and servants which I am posting below. For some reason MJD is listed on the census as MONTAGUE DRUK but the age and place of birth make it clear that it is him. Interesting to get a full picture of his associates and pupils of whom there are 15 ranging in ages from 14 to 17 years of age. One name stands out as familiar - there is a pupil with the surname BOUSFIELD, a very unusual surname and the same as that of Matha Tabrams's landlady. I am folloing this up and will post any results. George Valentine's School from 1881 census Address: 9 Eliot Place Lewisham Kent Head of Household: George Valentine aged 39 born Bombay Louisa Valentine (mother of George) aged 66 born Nevis, West Indies Staff: Mark Francis James Mann: aged 25 born Guernsey Assistant schoolmaster B.A. Montague Druk: aged 23 born Wimborne, Dorset Assistant schoolmaster B.A. Pupils: Henry Lieschiny: aged 17 born Tangelle, Ceylon Ernest Borwick: aged 16 born Walthamstow, Essex William Walker: aged 16 born Rosano, Argentine John D Mennie: aged 16 born Poonah, India W Reginald Ellin: aged 16 born Sheffield, Yorkshire Edward A Ugielli: aged 15 born London Henry F Mackern: aged 15 born Buenos Aires, Argentine William F Tyler: aged 15 born Woolton, Somerset Albert Bridges: aged 15 born Berbice, British Guiana Julius Savory: aged 15 born London Nathaniel B Winter: aged 14 born New Amsterdam, British Guiana George H Mackern: aged 14 born Limerick, Ireland Tufnell B Southgate: aged 14 born Lee, Kent Arthur Bousfield: aged 14 born Lee, Kent Douglas C Ugielli: aged 14 born London Servants: Elizabeth Smith: aged 23 born Woolwich, London Housemaid Alice S Apps: aged 18 born Bromley Kitchen Maid Herbert J Clarke: aged 15 born Sherborn, York Stable Boy
Author: Christopher T George Wednesday, 20 November 2002 - 01:43 pm
Hi, Chris et al.: Excellent work, Chris! Does anyone know if this is the first time Montague has been found in the 1881 census? Intrepid sleuthing, Chris, whether or not you are the very first to find MJD in the 1881 British census. Congratulations. All the best Chris
Author: Peter R.A. Birchwood Wednesday, 20 November 2002 - 04:41 pm
Hi Chris: Please note the following posted by me 20th March 2000. Author: Peter R.A. Birchwood Monday, 20 March 2000 - 12:32 pm I thought it might be worthwhile to post a couple of Druitt-related census entries. I was trying to find William Harvey Druitt but he doesn't seem to be around in 1881. Still, given that his brother was enumerated as "Druk" that doesn't mean that he isn't around in the UK somewhere with his name mispelled. Dwelling: Westfield House Census Place: Wimborne Minster, Dorset, England Source: FHL Film 1341505 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 2093 Folio 13 Page 19 Marr Age Sex Birthplace William DRUITT M 60 M Wimborne, Dorset, England Rel: Head Occ: F.R.C.S.Not Practising Anne DRUITT M 51 F Shapwick, Dorset, England Rel: Wife Georgiana E. DRUITT U 25 F Wimborne, Dorset, England Rel: Dau Edith DRUITT 13 F Wimborne, Dorset, England Rel: Dau Occ: Scholar Ethel M. DRUITT 10 F Wimborne, Dorset, England Rel: Dau Occ: Scholar Ann FLIPP U 35 F Spetisbury, Dorset, England Rel: Servt Occ: Cook Edith DENNETT U 25 F Wimborne, Dorset, England Rel: Servt Occ: Parlour Maid Sophia E. RIDOUT U 23 F Gosport, Hampshire, England Rel: Servt Occ: House Maid Interestingly enough, at a nearby school in Wimborne Minster there are 3 boys being educated: who are probably brothers: Alan, Melville and Mayo(!) Druitt aged 17, 14 and 11 all born at Christchurch Hampshire. Use of the reasonably unusual first name: Melville does make me wonder if there is a family link between the Druitts and Melville Macnaghten. The following is the entry for Valentine's school on Blackheath. Please note that Montague John is actually indexed as DRUK, a mistake made at some point between the original enumerator and the LDS who filmed and indexed this. Also note the incredible diversity of birth places. Dwelling: 9 Eliot Place Census Place: Lewisham, Kent, England Source: FHL Film 1341170 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 0729 Folio 60 Page 2 Marr Age Sex Birthplace George VALENTINE U 39 M Bombay, India Rel: Head Occ: Schoolmaster B.A. Louisa VALENTINE W 66 F Nervis, West Indies Rel: Mother Mark Francis James MANN U 25 M Guernsey, Channel Islands Rel: Assistant Occ: Assistant Schoolmaster B.A. Montague DRUK U 23 M Winborne, Dorset, England Rel: Assistant Occ: Assistant Schoolmaster B.A. Henry LIESCHINY 17 M Tangelle, Ceylon Rel: Pupil Occ: Scholar Ernest BORWICK 16 M Walthamstow, Essex, England Rel: Pupil Occ: Scholar William WALKER 16 M Rosano B S, Argentine Rel: Pupil Occ: Scholar John D. MENNIE 16 M Poonah, India Rel: Pupil Occ: Scholar W. Reginald ELLIN 16 M Sheffield, York, England Rel: Pupil Occ: Scholar Edward A. UGIELLI 15 M London, Middlesex, England Rel: Pupil Occ: Scholar Henry F. MACKERN 15 M Buenos Ayres B S, Argentine Rel: Pupil Occ: Scholar William F. TYLER 15 M NSL Woolton, Somerset, England Rel: Pupil Occ: Scholar Albert BRIDGES 15 M Berbice, British Guiana Rel: Pupil Occ: Scholar Julius SAVORY 15 M London, Middlesex, England Rel: Pupil Occ: Scholar Nathaniel B. WINTER 14 M New Amsterdam, British Guiana Rel: Pupil Occ: Scholar George H. MACKERN 14 M Limerick, Ireland Rel: Pupil Occ: Scholar Tufnell B. SOUTHGATE 14 M Lee, Kent, England Rel: Pupil Occ: Scholar Arthur BOUSFIELD 14 M Lee, Kent, England Rel: Pupil Occ: Scholar Douglas C. UGIELLI 14 M London, Middlesex, England Rel: Pupil Occ: Scholar Elizabeth SMITH U 23 F Woolwich, Kent, England Rel: Serv Occ: Housemaid Dom Serv Alice S. APPS U 18 F Bromley, Middlesex, England Rel: Serv Occ: Kitchen Maid Dom Serv Herbert J. CLARKE U 15 M Sherborn, York, England Rel: Serv Occ: Stable Boy
Author: R.J. Palmer Wednesday, 20 November 2002 - 10:16 pm
Peter---Ever look into those two chaps that were at Druitt's funeral? I checked out the Oxford alumni list...they didn't seem to be old school chums. [Unlike the Clergyman who was from Oxford]. Maybe they were connected to the family law firm, or local family friends? It would be interesting to know if Druitt was snubbed by the Blackheath crowd.
Author: Garen Ewing Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 02:20 pm
Just a quick addition to those searching names on the 1881 census - as you know, I think, but a lot of the LDS transcription of the 1881 census is quite 'iffy' to say the least (same goes for the IGI). I have the 1881 census on CD-ROM and have found several of my own family members with distortions of their names. My ggg grandmother Winifred was down as Thinford! I looked up the original census film roll at the FRC in Islington and it does say Winifred, so a lot of these mistakes are in the modern transcription. The online 1901 census has similair problems as some foreigners were used for transcription duties who were not familiar with British names or places - prisoners were also used to transcribe the census! Just a bit of background... Thanks - Garen.
Author: chris scott Thursday, 28 November 2002 - 07:43 pm
In the 1881 census I have found a Dr Robert Druitt born In Wimborne, Dorset. Details of entry are: Address: 8 Strathmore Gardens London Robert Druitt FRCS Lond JP SLES Ales MD of Lambeth (not practising) Born 1815 in Wimborne, Dorset Age 66 Married Also listed are two daughters: Emily, aged 25, an Art Student at South Kensington and Gertrude aged 18, a scholar. Servants listed are: Amelia McQuillen aged 53 from Stonehouse, Devon Ellen Curren aged 27 from Limerick, Ireland Frances Bulter aged 28 from Hereford. Anyone know what relation this Robert Druitt was to Montague please? Many thanks Chris Scott
Author: Chris Phillips Friday, 29 November 2002 - 01:24 pm
The Dr Robert Druitt in the 1881 census is Montague's uncle. For those who are interested, there's a wealth of Druitt information on the "Access to Archives" website, in the section on the Druitt Papers at West Sussex Record Office. Bookmarks won't work, apparently, but go to http://www.a2a.pro.gov.uk/ click on search, enter the search term "Druitt", and then follow the link labelled "592 hit(s)". There is a biographical outline of Robert Druitt and his family, followed by a summary of the documents. The introduction mentions as a point of interest that Robert's nephew Montague John Druitt is "the chief 'Jack the Ripper' suspect today", citing Farson's book. It adds: "There is a letter written by Montague to his uncle Robert amongst these papers. This reveals nothing sensational, but is an example of his handwriting, which up to now (his signature excepted) has not been found." There is a mine of information here on the wider Druitt family. I couldn't help noticing that one of the correspondents listed in the "Genealogy and Family History section", in 1888 and 1889 is one Jabez Druitt of Mile End Road. He appears in the 1881 census at 447 Mile End Road, a stone merchant employing 20 men, aged 56, born Mile End Old Town, with a wife and 5 daughters. Probably not a close relation, if known to be a relation at all, and probably at the "wrong end" of Mile End Road, but interesting in the light of past efforts to tie Montague to the East End through other relations. There are also some details relating to Lionel Druitt. Possibly these papers were used by Howells and Skinner, whose book I haven't seen yet, but the details here differ in some respects from those given in the "A-Z" (1996 edn). The papers at West Sussex RO - together with the introduction - give: May 1886 - emigrated to Cooma, New South Wales 1888, 1889 - at Wagga Wagga, New South Wales [undated] - St Arnaud, Victoria 1891 - Swansea, Tasmania 1900 - Koroit 1907 - Mentone, Victoria - with a reference to a farewell concert for Lionel and his family 1908 - Mentone, Victoria - letter from Lionel's widow Susan C. Druitt following his death For the crucial period around 1890, when the pamphlet "The East End Murderer ...", is supposed to have been published at Dandenong, "A-Z" says he had been shown to have moved in September 1890 to St Arnaud, Victoria, and to have lived there "for at least the next couple of years". These documents show a letter from Lionel at Wagga Wagga in 1889, followed by 2 undated ones from Susan at St Arnaud, and then another from her at Swansea, Tasmania, in 1891. The introduction dates the move to Tasmania to 1891. There is also a "Copy of cutting made by Mrs. Isabella Druitt giving notice of Lionel's departure to Tasmania and a short career history". Perhaps that would clarify his movements in the important period. There are also some later references to Lionel's widow Susan and, presumably, other members of his family: 1908 - Dorothy Druitt (with Susan's letter) 1908 - Mentone, Victoria, S.K. Druitt 1914 - R.M.S. Osterley, Susan C. D[r]uitt 1914 - Egypt, Dorothy E. Druitt 1915 - R.M.S. Osterley, Indian Ocean, Susan C. Druitt 1915 - Toorak/[?]R.M.S. Osterley, Dorothy E. Druitt 1915 - Tumburumba, New South Wales, Katherine Druitt and Sally Druitt 1916 - Tumburumba, Susan C. Druitt 1916 - Tumburumba, Katherine Druitt 1917 - Tumburumba, New South Wales, Dorothy Edith Druitt 1917 - Tumburumba, Susan C. Druitt 1917 - Tumburumba, S.K. Druitt 1920 - Sumatra, Indonesia, Sally Burder [née Druitt] (cf undated, Henrietta S. Burder, with a note of the marriage of Gordon and Sally Druitt to be placed in The Times, and other references to Gordon S. Burder) Dorothy Edith is the youngest of Lionel's daughters, according to Farson. I suspect S.K. or Katherine is the eldest (called "Susan Catherine" by Farson) and perhaps Sally is the middle one (called "Isabella Sarah Jane" by Farson). Sorry if this is going over old ground, but I've never been quite clear how far people have succeeded in tracing Lionel's descendants.
Author: chris scott Friday, 29 November 2002 - 06:30 pm
Hi Chris many thanks for your excellent answer and the links which I will definitely be looking at much appreciated Chris scott
Author: Chris Phillips Saturday, 30 November 2002 - 03:19 pm
You're welcome. Since posting the above, I saw that in 2000 Simon Owen on the Lionel Druitt (Later Suspects) board, posted a summary of Lionel's movements from Howells and Skinner's book, apparently from Australian records. This is more detailed than, and consistent with, the information above from the Druitt papers. Oddly the "A-Z" seems to have introduced some errors into the picture.
Author: chris scott Thursday, 05 December 2002 - 12:49 pm
Re: Cheques found on MJD in the Thames I'm sure I read somewhere that the 2 cheques found on MJD's body were drawn on the London And Provincial Bank and that this had been taken over and its records no longer existed. However I found the following document on line faculty.insead.edu/weeks/documents/ Unpopular_Culture_Paper.pdf which is a recent report on London and Provincial and its management problems Anyone know what the story is on this please? Chris S
Author: Chris Phillips Thursday, 05 December 2002 - 03:19 pm
I think the answer is that it seems to be a case study using a fictitious name. Stawell Heard's dissertation on Mr Valentine's School says that the London and Provincial merged with the South Western Bank in 1917, and with Barclays the following year. Here's a link to the Historical Manuscripts Commission information on Barclays Group Archives. Unfortunately the URL doesn't seem to work. It seems too much to hope for that they would still have information about the cheques. Unless there's a chance they would have kept any correspondence connected with the inquest. But even that seems unlikely.
Author: Chris Phillips Friday, 13 December 2002 - 03:41 pm
I wrote: There is a mine of information here on the wider Druitt family. I couldn't help noticing that one of the correspondents listed in the "Genealogy and Family History section", in 1888 and 1889 is one Jabez Druitt of Mile End Road. He appears in the 1881 census at 447 Mile End Road, a stone merchant employing 20 men, aged 56, born Mile End Old Town, with a wife and 5 daughters. Probably not a close relation, if known to be a relation at all, and probably at the "wrong end" of Mile End Road, but interesting in the light of past efforts to tie Montague to the East End through other relations. No doubt Jabez is the person referred to by Sugden, when he says, in relation to the lack of any proven link between M.J. Druitt and the East End: The only crumb of comfort I can offer Druittists is the presence of Druitts on the Mile End Old Town Vestry and Board of Guardians in 1890. It is unlikely they had any connection with Montague's family from Wimborne but detailed genealogical research might clarify the point. [Philip Sugden, The Complete History of Jack the Ripper, p. 520 (1994)] Thanks to the online catalogue of the Druitt papers at West Sussex, at least we know now that Jabez was in correspondence with the family of Montague's uncle Robert. But it still seems likely he was a distant relation, if related at all. A glance at the International Genealogical Index suggests Jabez Druitt's immediate forebears came from London, and it looks as though the Wimborne Druitts collected material on the surname for genealogical reasons, even including variant spellings.
Author: chris scott Friday, 20 December 2002 - 07:26 pm
For those interested in such things (!) I have found the records for 2 of the cricket matches in which MJ Druitt played: 1) Parsees in England, 1888 Gentlemen of Bournemouth v Parsees Dean Park, Bournemouth 3,4 August 1888 (2-day match) Result: Parsees won by 6 wickets Toss: Umpires: Close of Play: Day 1: Gentlemen of Bournemouth 1st innings +Andrews c Divecha b Pandole 2 Kinsey c Cooper b Pavri 9 R Micklethwaite b Pavri 0 Lewid c Kanga b Pandole 3 MJ Druitt b Pavri 12 P Bevan c Cooper b Pavri 5 E Cusse lbw b Kanga 3 H Lacey c Kanga b Pavri 5 Marshall b Pavri 0 FB Bingham not out 12 Newman b Kanga 2 Extras (b ?, lb ?, w ?, nb ?) 3 Total (all out) 56 FoW: 1-?, 2-?, 3-?, 4-?, 5-?, 6-?, 7-?, 8-?, 9-?, 10-56. Bowling O M R W Pandole ? ? ? 2 Pavri ? ? ? 6 Kanga ? ? ? 2 Parsees 1st innings PD Kanga c Druitt b Bingham 0 JM Morenas c Newman b Druitt 1 +RD Cooper c Andrews b Druitt 21 KR Eranee b Druitt 1 MD Kanga b Bingham 4 NC Bapasola c Kinsey b Marshall 5 ME Pavri b Bingham 0 J Divecha b Druitt 3 S Harver st Andrews b Marshall 3 DC Pandole c & b Druitt 5 AD Vatcha not out 13 Total (all out) 61 FoW: 1-?, 2-?, 3-?, 4-?, 5-?, 6-?, 7-?, 8-?, 9-?, 10-61. Bowling O M R W Bingham ? ? ? 3 Druitt ? ? ? 5 Marshall ? ? ? 2 Gentlemen of Bournemouth 2nd innings +Andrews run out 4 Kinsey st Cooper b Pandole 2 R Micklethwaite b Pandole 2 Lewid b Kanga 10 MJ Druitt c Harver b Pandole 0 P Bevan b Pandole 0 E Cusse hit wicket b Pandole 11 H Lacey c Divecha b Pandole 0 Marshall b Kanga 0 FB Bingham c Cooper b Pandole 0 Newman b Kanga 0 Extras (b ?, lb ?, w ?, nb ?) 5 Total (all out) 41 FoW: 1-?, 2-?, 3-?, 4-?, 5-?, 6-?, 7-?, 8-?, 9-?, 10-41. Bowling O M R W Pandole ? ? ? 7 Kanga ? ? ? 3 Parsees 2nd innings (target: 37) PD Kanga not out 1 JM Morenas b Turner 8 +RD Cooper c Druitt b Bingham 17 KR Eranee b Turner 3 MD Kanga b Bingham 0 ME Pavri not out 6 Extras (b ?, lb ?, w ?, nb ?) 2 Total (4 wickets) 37 DNB: NC Bapasola, J Divecha, S Harver, DC Pandole, AD Vatcha. FoW: 1-?, 2-?, 3-?, 4-?. Bowling O M R W Turner ? ? ? 2 Bingham ? ? ? 2 2) Blackheath Club v Brothers Christopherson Blackheath 8 September 1888 (1-day match) Result: Blackheath Club won by 22 runs Toss: Umpires: Players per side: 10 Blackheath Club innings FG Monkland b P Christopherson 15 E Woodman c C Christopherson b P Christopherson 2 RS Barrow c S Christopherson b P Christopherson 0 MJ Druitt b S Christopherson 2 HC Blaker b S Christopherson 14 THE Nicholls run out 2 RA Fegan c Sidney Christopherson b S Christopherson 0 GR Hutchinson not out 44 FS Ireland c & b Sidney Christopherson 14 JH Fegan c P Christopherson b S Christopherson 10 Extras (b ?, lb ?, w ?, nb ?) 12 Total (all out) 115 FoW: 1-?, 2-?, 3-?, 4-?, 5-?, 6-?, 7-?, 8-?, 9-115. Bowling O M R W P Christopherson ? ? ? 3 S Christopherson ? ? ? 4 Sidney Christopherson ? ? ? 1 Brothers Christopherson innings (target: 116) S Christopherson b Druitt 10 P Christopherson c Monkland b Ireland 7 K Christopherson c Monkland b Ireland 5 Sidney Christopherson c Woodman b Ireland 40 C Christopherson b Druitt 2 M Christopherson c Woodman b Ireland 9 Douglas Christopherson c Monkland b ? Fegan 8 D Christopherson b Druitt 0 H Christopherson not out 1 D Christopherson jnr b Ireland 1 Extras (b ?, lb ?, w ?, nb ?) 10 Total (all out) 93 FoW: 1-?, 2-?, 3-?, 4-?, 5-?, 6-?, 7-?, 8-?, 9-93. Bowling O M R W Druitt ? ? ? 3 Ireland ? ? ? 5 ? Fegan ? ? ? 1 Apologies to the noin cricketing fans or those (like me!) who do not understand the game but the dates etc might be of interest Chris Scott
Author: Guy Hatton Saturday, 21 December 2002 - 05:07 am
Well, whether he was the Whitechapel Murderer or not, he doesn't seem to have been much of a batsman, does he? Cheers Guy
Author: The Viper Saturday, 21 December 2002 - 06:24 am
Very interesting, Chris. The Parsees were, from memory, a decent touring side from India and that would have been a prestigious fixture, as a two-day, two innings match suggests. For many years Dean Park in Bournemouth was a county ground, used regularly by Hampshire. I remember watching county cricket there in 1989 at a time when the ground was under threat, the plan at that time being to turn the site into a supermarket (like everywhere else in late C20th Britain). Fortunately the ground survived and though Hampshire no longer play there it is still used by amateur cricketers. Would you have any information as to whether the Blackheath Club was playing at the Rectory Field in those days? If so Druitt was playing on the ground once used periodically for county cricket by Kent. This ground was being shared with the famous Blackheath Rugby Club a few years ago when I was last over there. Regards, V.
Author: The Viper Saturday, 21 December 2002 - 06:34 am
OK scratch that question. Just seen your entry with the photograph above. Suitably embarrassed, V.
Author: chris scott Saturday, 21 December 2002 - 08:25 am
Hi Guy Not much of a batsman!! But better then me when I suffered having to play cricket at school! Seems to have been fair bowler though, to be fair Regards Chris Viper Glad you found the Rectory Field info:-) C
Author: Chris Phillips Saturday, 21 December 2002 - 09:14 am
Of course, if Druitt is the killer, you have to make allowance for the fact he had killed Annie Chapman earlier the same morning as he played at Blackheath! On the 1881 census board, chris scott has posted details of M.J. Druitt's cousin Lionel and brother William Lionel is boarding with a medical student with Frank W. Cooper and Edith Cooper, both doctors, at Gainsborough House, Low Leyton, Essex. Apparently this was in the High Road, Leytonstone, in East London - perhaps 4-5 miles north-east of Whitechapel (and not very far from Clapton, where M.J. Druitt's mother Anne was later to be put into an asylum). This web page on St John the Baptist, Leytonstone mentions the house still being there, having been occupied by Dr Cooper and later by other doctors (including Dr Jekyll, funnily enough).
Author: chris scott Saturday, 21 December 2002 - 10:45 am
Hi Chris Many thanks for that Leytonstone link - amused to see Gaisnborough House was once occupied by a Dr Jekyll!!! Thanks again chris S
Author: Chris Phillips Monday, 06 January 2003 - 05:26 am
I have recently been in contact with John Ruffels, the Australian researcher who has done a lot of work in following the trail of Lionel Druitt (and some of Montague's other relations) in Australia, and in investigating the claim apparently made by a Mr Knowles in a letter to Daniel Farson, that Lionel privately published a pamphlet entitled "The East End Murderer: I Knew Him." Although some brief details of Mr Ruffels' findings were included by Howells and Skinner in "The Ripper Legacy", and in the "A-Z", he is now writing them up fully for publication. I understand they include a nearly complete account of Lionel's movements in Australia, as well as an attempt to explain what Mr Knowles really saw.
Author: chris scott Monday, 06 January 2003 - 07:58 am
Chris very interesting news about the Australian coinnection. I look forward to reading this research from John Ruffels Thanks for posting this Chris S
Author: Chris Phillips Thursday, 09 January 2003 - 06:39 pm
Reading through the excellent selection of article by George R. Sims on this site, I was struck by one or two interesting points I hadn't seen before. The extracts refer to the belief of the police that the Ripper was dead, and give a number of details clearly relating to Druitt. I think it's generally agreed that Macnaghten was the source. Beyond the usual catalogue, we have: (1) A suggestion that the killer had already been in an asylum. The homicidal maniac who Shocked the World as Jack the Ripper had been once - I am not sure that it was not twice - in a lunatic asylum. At the time his dead body was found in the Thames, his friends, who were terrified at his disappearance from their midst, were endeavouring to have him found and placed under restraint again. (February 16, 1902) For a whole year at least he was a free man, exercising all the privileges of freedom. (1906) The doctor had been an inmate of a lunatic asylum for some time, and had been liberated and regained his complete freedom. (September 22, 1907) He was undoubtedly a doctor who had been in a lunatic asylum and had developed homicidal mania of a special kind. (1917) No such statement is made about Druitt in Macnaghten's memoranda, although of course he does say that Druitt was - or was alleged to be - "sexually insane". Indeed, it sounds much more like the "third insane medical student", John Sanders. In combination with the reference to the drowned suspect being a "medical student" in the Pall Mall Gazette article giving Abberline's rejoinder to Sims's statement, this seems to lend weight to Paul Begg's suggestion, in "Jack the Ripper: The Uncensored Facts", that there was confusion in the minds of the police between Druitt and Sanders (although I find it difficult to believe that any such confusion accounted for Druitt becoming Macnaghten's prime suspect). I suppose the alternative is that Druitt himself had been discreetly confined to an asylum for a period in 1887 or earlier. But I presume his history has been thoroughly enough researched to rule that out. (2) A suggestion that the killer travelled to Whitechapel on the Underground The series of diabolical crimes in the East End which appalled the world were committed by a homicidal maniac who led the ordinary life of a free citizen. He rode in tramcars and omnibuses. He travelled to Whitechapel by the underground railway, often late at night. Probably on several occasions he had but one fellow-passenger in the compartment with him, and that may have been a woman. Imagine what the feelings of those travellers would have been had they known that they were alone in the dark tunnels of the Underground with Jack the Ripper! I wonder whether this is pure supposition, or whether it reflects that Macnaghten had given serious consideration to how Druitt might have travelled to and from Blackheath.
Author: Chris Phillips Monday, 13 January 2003 - 06:50 am
John Ruffels in Australia sent me this extract from the Koroit [Victoria] Sentinel for 13 January, 1900, credited to "Our London Correspondent". "in connection with young Saunders' insane crime and the Kensington stabbings, the authorities have been extremely alarmed lest another Jack The Ripper panic should seize upon the public mind.This led them recently to make the important announcement that they have reason to believe that the author of the Ripper crimes has been several years in his grave." Apparently the same item was repeated on 12th January 1901(!). I don't remember having seen any mention of an official announcement that the Ripper was believed to be dead, as opposed to the well known memoirs and articles by journalists with police contacts (and 1900 predates nearly all of these anyway). Does anyone know anything of this "important announcement"? Obviously, if it really existed it would be interesting to see precisely what was said. Or, failing that, can anyone identify "young Saunders' insane crime" or "the Kensington stabbings", to which the announcement was allegedly a response?
Author: David Jetson Monday, 13 January 2003 - 09:21 am
It's worth mentioning that many places in Australia are named after places in England, and often towns or suburbs in different states will have the same name. I know of a suburb called Richmond here in Melbourne, one in Sydney, a town of that name in Tasmania, and I seem to recall hearing of one in Western Australia, too... As for Kensington, it's a Melbourne suburb in the inner west. It was famous for its stockyards, which started pretty early in Melbourne's history, and would have been thriving in 1900 or so. Definately a slum area at the time, probably with similarities to Whitechapel, which may be the cause of the comparison. I'm reasonably well-informed about famous Australian crimes and the history of my city, and I don't know of any "Kensington stabbings' - so it may be that it's a different Kensington to the one here in Melbourne. Melbourne is the capital of Victoria, the second largest Australian city, and was capital of the country before Canberra was invented. Basically Canberra was a compromise between the people who wanted Sydney to be capital and those who wanted Melbourne - in the end, no-one was happy, and I can say that Canberra, while it has its charms, is a dumb idea for a city. Koroit, is a small country town in Victoria - a quick search led me to this: http://touristnews.standard.net.au/koroit/ As you can see, there isn't a lot to Koroit, so who the heck knows what they were on about? As for their grandly named "London Correspondent" - he was no doubt some friend of the editor who mailed a letter, and could have easily been a crank of some variety. You can't really put much trust in the comments of a microscopic rural newspaper that probably had a readership of a couple of hundred people. This is very interesting, but I wouldn't be basing any major theories on such a shaky lead.
Author: Chris Phillips Monday, 13 January 2003 - 02:11 pm
David Thanks for those thoughts. Probably I should have explained why anyone came to look at such an obscure newspaper in the first place. This was part of an extensive research effort by John Ruffels and his collaborators to investigate the movements of Montague's cousin Lionel Druitt in Australia. They looked at the Koroit Sentinel because Lionel lived in Koroit at the time. I read the report as implying the London authorities were concerned because of the crimes mentioned, so I presumed that the Kensington in question was the London one. I agree that the Koroit Sentinel wouldn't have employed its own London correspondent. I had assumed that it was likely to be syndicated news, but I suppose an acquaintance of the editor in London is another possibility. If an announcement was really made by the police in London, it must have been reported in the London press. That's what I was really hoping someone might know about.
Author: Jack Traisson Monday, 13 January 2003 - 08:04 pm
Hi Chris, I have never heard about the London press making any announcement about the Ripper's death, though G.R. Sims first mentioned that the Ripper committed suicide by drowning in the Thames for the Sunday Express, 1899, I believe. Though I would have to look it up to be certain. Also, don't forget that Major Griffiths essentially published the MacNaghten memoranda sans names. MacNaghten was a friend to both Sims and Griffiths. In Griffiths' book "Mysteries of Police and Crime'(1898) you will find this: "The third person was of the same type, but the suspicion in his case was stronger, and there was every reason to believe that his own friends entertained grave doubts about him. He was also a doctor in the prime of life, was believed to be insane or on the borderland of insanity, and he disappeared immediately after the last murder, that in Miller's Court, on the 9th November, 1888. On the last day of that year, seven weeks later, his body was found floating in the Thames, and was said to have been in the water a month. The theory in this case was that after his last exploit, which was the most fiendish of all, his brain entirely gave way, and he became furiously insane and committed suicide. It is at least a strong presumption that "Jack the Ripper" died or was put under restraint after the Miller's Court affair, which ended this series of crimes." Hope this is of some help. Cheers
Author: Chris Phillips Tuesday, 14 January 2003 - 04:34 am
Jack Yes - the G. R. Sims article from 22 January 1899 is available on this site. Apart from Griffiths' more guarded statement, the other one I know of, from Begg et al., "A-Z" (1996 edn): The Bristol Times and Mirror, 11 February 1891, reported an unnamed West of England MP declaring that the Ripper was the son of a surgeon and committed suicide on the night of the last murder. If that's correct it predates the Macnaghten memoranda by three years as well as describing Druitt more accurately as the "son of a surgeon" rather than as a doctor himself. Maybe the Koroit report was a distorted version of one of these unofficial reports. However, I still think it may be worth following up.
Author: Jack Traisson Tuesday, 14 January 2003 - 05:17 am
Chris, I absolutely agree that it is something worth investigating further. There is always the chance that the Australian article has a source that is not directly related to MacNaghten. The Bristol Times and Mirror piece appeared, interestingly enough, just two days before Frances Coles' murder. Once again, the information could have come from MacNaghten, who may have formed his Druitt opinion by then and correctly remembered the details before writing them down from memory three years later. If this article's information did not originate with MacNaghten, then it is interesting to wonder who else may have independently suspected Druitt. Unless the "private information" MacNaghten received wasn't so private. Best of luck with your research.
Author: Brian Schoeneman Tuesday, 14 January 2003 - 12:06 pm
Jack and Chris, It seems to me that all of the accounts vary slightly, whether they be from the Bristol Times, Sims, Griffiths, etc. But they all seem to be variation on a theme - they are all very similiar, just the minor details that get messed up - an incorrect time of death here, doctor vs. son-of-a-surgeon there. The same facts, though, are repeated. "The Ripper drowned himself in the Thames after Kelly and his family and friends suspected him". So, it looks to me like all roads lead back to MacNaughten. The question that I have is where Sir Melville got his information from. Did he come up with this theory on his own, or did someone give it to him? I know there was some speculation about some kind of family ties between the MacNaugthens and the Druitts, or that they passed in similar social spheres, but I don't know if it's been established where his "private information" that left him wihtout "any doubt" as to Druitt's families suspicions came from. I wonder if MacNaughten had been privately telling anyone who would listen prior to publishing the memoranda who he thought the Ripper was, and that inklings of this got back to certain members of the press. Perhaps that is how the other papers came out with similiar theories before the Memoranda was written. B
Author: Timsta Tuesday, 14 January 2003 - 02:24 pm
Hi all. Can't help thinking that 'private information' is a synonym for 'hearsay' in this case. Regards Timsta
Author: JOHN RUFFELS Monday, 27 January 2003 - 05:44 am
Hello.I'm a new arrival. I have a Question: How many 1889 press reports of the suicide and inquest of Montague John Druitt can anyone list. They must detail the newspaper and the date. (There is one in the newspaper section of this site: "The Dorset Chronicle"). So that makes seven in all...doesn't it?