Author: April Cooper
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 01:18 am |        |
Hi all. I want to get another book besides the one I am reading right now by Patricia Cornwell about "Jack the Ripper" ... so anyone who has any suggestions about which is the most truthful, informative book out there on this subject please let me know your choice.... you all seem very educated on this subject so who better to ask which book to read?
Thanks for your help!
April  |
Author: Philip Rayner
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 04:26 am | |
Philip Sugdens 'Complete history of Jack the Ripper' is an excellent resource but don't expect a theory. it is written from the historians point of view and because of this tends to be a little confusing at times. It seems he is trying to assess the extant theories and this means it gets a little difficult at times.
If you feel that you just want a dip in research book then the A-Z of JTR is my favourite. I know there is a revised edition of 'Complete history' but to my shame (Given some of the contributors to the boards!!!) I am not sure if the A-Z has been revised of late. I am sure one of these contributors to this board who wrote the A-Z will be pleased to tell you. Seriously it is great as you can read a name and dip into the A-Z to find out more. They are all there, Suspects, victims, police. I recommend it. Do I get some brownie points from the authors huh? Huh? |
Author: Eduardo Zinna
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 06:16 am | |
Hi April,
Philip Sugden's book, by all means, but you may also wish to read "JTR: The Definitive History" by Paul Begg (who is one of the authors of "JTR: A to Z". Once you've read those two you will know which way you want to go from then on.
Regards,
Eduardo |
Author: chris scott
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 08:09 am | |
Hi April
Id certainly endorse the comments above about Philip Sugden's excellent book and Philip's comment about not expecting a theory to me is a plus. Although, having said that, at the end of the book Philip does lean towards Chapman as a favourite suspect.
Also woth looking at Donald Rumbelow's "Complete jack the Ripper". It's shorter than Sugden's mighty tome and may be more accessible and less daunting for a newcomer to the case. If you a not a newcomer, April, then my apologies!!!
I also have an excellent, short book on the case but I do not know how generally available this is. It was published recently in UK but do not know about availability in other countries.
It is in a series called Pocket Essentials and is simply entitled Jack the Ripper
The book is by Mark Whitehead and Miriam Rivett and is one of the best short guides to the case I have read - my only complaint is that the print is infuriatingly small!!!
The company that publish it has a website at
www.pocketessentials.com
and you may be able to order from there
Best wishes
Chris S |
Author: Warwick Parminter
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 09:02 am | |
Hello April, I see you don't have a suspect so you may be really new to this subject.
I'd say try Bruce Paley's book, "Jack the Ripper"
the simple truth. You will get as much truth and
logic from that book as any other, and a good view of 1888 Whitechapel conditions, it's a good book and I don't think you would regret buying.
Rick |
Author: Stuart
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 09:39 am | |
Hi April.
I read the Maybrick Diary years ago.
But recently, now that my interest is way way up again I plumped for and read in this order...
1st/ Sugdens Complete History of JTR
2nd/ The Mammoth Book of JTR
3rd/ Encyclopaedia of JTR
4th/ Prisoner 1167
Beadle's Anatomy of a Myth is next once it arrives at the bookstore.
The A-Z is on order too.
Plus of course the wise words on this site :-)
Cheers
Stu |
Author: Trevor Robert Jones
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 10:54 am | |
Hello April,
I would agree with Chris Scott , Donald Rumbelows:Complete Jack the Ripper,
is a good starting point.
Regards,
Trevor. |
Author: Brian Schoeneman
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 11:16 am | |
April,
Sugden is the easiest one to find - it's still in print, and Amazon's got it. Personally, I need to buy a new copy because the one I've got is so dogeared and marked up, it's falling apart.
Rumbelow and the A-Z are great as well, but they are both out of print, so you've got to look for second hand or used bookstores to get 'em.
B |
Author: Monty
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 11:34 am | |
Peeps,
Something heavy and factual ?? Evans & Skinners Source Book.
Something a bit more 'easier' (no disrespect) for beginners, Sugden or Begg.
Ive just obtained John J Eddlestons encyclopedia....looks good so far !!
Point of interest, Sugden does put forward a theory albeit reluctantly.
And there are no plans for a revised A-Z...according to Mr Fido.
Unhelpful Monty
|
Author: Stuart
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 11:48 am | |
Hey Warwick,
I see you live in good old Worcestershire too! England's most half asleep county.
Well Lumme!
Catch you around.
Stu |
Author: Richard P. Dewar
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 11:51 am | |
Hi all,
A mild disagreement with some of those who cite Sugden's book as the best and most neutral on the case.
I find most of his book terrific - and very unbiased. However, the chapter on George Chapman does not seem to belong in the book. It is highly opinionated and seems to suggest the author believes Chapman was the killer. It is astonishingly inconsistent with his review of the other major suspects.
I believe the research and work did on the case was monumental and thorough. The book is well written and entertaining. But the one chapter damages the book's probity.
I personally favor the Evans/Skinner book and Paul Begg's latest.
Rich |
Author: Philip Rayner
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 02:48 pm | |
I agree with your Chapman comment Rich but with this exception the only problem I could find was that he bogged himself down in detail in order to see all points of view. It certainly takes some concentration to read the whole thing. The history is exactly that, a reasoned view of the case and a discussion of various interpretations. If he does favour Chapman and that shows in his writing, it is not necessarily a comment on his neutrality.
If he had said 'That's the history and it's all rubbish cos Chapman did it.' then he could be accused of bias. As I recall he didn't do that.
For a novice though Sugden provides too much information, that's why I have also recommended the A-Z which provides a good grounding that can be built on and can be consulted when needed. |
Author: Richard P. Dewar
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 03:04 pm | |
Hi Philip,
Thank you for the post. I agree that Sugden is probably not a good choice for a first book on the case - I would suggest Donald Rumbelow's book.
With regard to Sugden, I found his book one of the best ever written on the case. And he quite nicely critiques many of the 'suspects' in the case.
Two items, though, disappointed me in an otherwise interesting book.
First, Sugden's reasoning that Schwartz was the witness rather than Lawande based on the Anderson writings seems to me without foundation. He virtually presents the information as fact. He may, of course, be right. I do not understand how he seems so thoroughly convinced when it is possible that Lawande was the witness.
Secondly, and even more out of place, Sugden suggests strongly that George Chapman may have been Jack the Ripper. He gives little weight to the bulk of evidence that he was not.
Sugden has a very favorable opinion of Abberline - to the point of almost being uncritical. It seems that he has given Chapman's candidacy weight simply because 15 years after the murders Abberline suggested Chapman could have been the killer. Though there is not one bit of evidence to suggest that he was, Sugden gives this candidate, in my view, too much attention. Especially since his book ignores many of the suspects more likely to have been the killer than Chapman.
Regards,
Rich |
Author: Christopher-Michael DiGrazia
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 03:11 pm | |
I would have to suggest Sugden on this for April, as she did ask for 'the most truthful, informative book out there.' The size is somewhat daunting, but Sugden has an easy, charming style which is not to be missed. Rumbelow, too, is a good choice, if slightly outdated (and it is not out of print, just difficult to find). The Pocket Essential JtR is a good overview, but I suspect April wants some meat to go with the vegetable diet of Cornwell. But this is presuming she wants a narrative of the case, and not a brief against one suspect or another (and I believe Sugden's tome is still the best; the Chapman chapter may be jarring to some, but it does not damage the book's bona fides).
Begg's Complete History is an excellent overview of the society and politics of 1888, but I would not recommend it as a primer on the case; in any event, that's not what it was designed for. His updated Uncensored Facts (sometime this year) will cover that nicely.
CMD |
Author: David Radka
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 03:11 pm | |
April,
All the above books are both right and wrong. If you read them, you'll be elevated above the level you're on right now, but a glass ceiling will form above your head at the same time, and you'll be prevented from going high enough.
David |
Author: Brian Schoeneman
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 04:36 pm | |
Rich, et. al.
The primary reason (besides being a big fan of it) that I promoted Sugden's book is that it is the most complete history that's available readily.
You can't find Rumbelow's book or A-Z without looking for it used. I know - I tried.
B |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 04:57 pm | |
Greetings all:
I agree with Brian. Sugden's book is the easiest to find right now, and is written as a sourcebook rather than a resolution to the mystery. I have never noticed the section on Chapman as being biased, but I'll go back and reread it.
Warm regards,
Divia |
Author: Richard P. Dewar
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 05:21 pm | |
Hi all,
I agree that Sugden's book is very extensive and more readily available. Rumbelow's book is available in many public libraries. I think it is a much quicker, easier read and is a good general overview to the case.
Sugden's book definitely has more detail - but I think it might have been too much for me when I was starting out my venture to the case (admittedly, I was only 13 years old at the time).
Regards,
Rich |
Author: Richard P. Dewar
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 05:27 pm | |
Hi Divia,
You might check out Sugden's book. He pronounces Druitt, Kosminski, and Ostrog as not innocent of the crimes and cryptically calls Chapman "not proven."
I would suggest that Druitt and Kosminski are both plausible suspects - though I concur with those that say the evidence is far short of proof.
For Sugden to dismiss Druitt and Kosminski while suggesting Chapman might have been the killer, suggests to me a certain degree of bias.
For whatever reason, Sugden has four chapters devoted to suspects - the three mention in Sir Melville's memorandum and Chapman. Why Chapman is included and not other notable suspects is strange.
I was also disappointed that in his previous edition the Littlechild letter naming Tumblety as a suspect had just surfaced and Sugden promised more information in his next edition. However, the next edition has little mention of Tumblety.
It seems to me that Tumblety is as plausible a suspect as Chapman, if not more so.
My point is not to disparage Sugden's work - which is truly outstanding. However, his book is constantly, and I believe erroneously, praised for being balanced about the suspects.
In my opinion, it is not.
Regards,
Rich |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 05:39 pm | |
Dear Rich:
Message received and understood! Now, where did I put all my Ripper books?
Warm regards,
Divia |
Author: Chris Phillips
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 05:59 pm | |
My impression was that Chapman was included as "Abberline's suspect", to follow "Macnaghten's suspect" Druitt and "Anderson's suspect" Kosminski - and I suppose there had to be a chapter on Ostrog for completeness.
Personally I felt that the chapter on Chapman was not as well referenced as the others, and that crucial matters such as where Chapman was living at the time of the Whitechapel murders were inadequately discussed.
But maybe the realities of publishing dictate that every Ripper book must present a suspect, to some extent? |
Author: Warwick Parminter
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 06:54 pm | |
Hiya Stu, yes I noticed you, from Stour, I'm closer to you than you may think,--just down the road in Kidder. As you say, we'll have a meet up, make it Spring,---I'm not myself in cold weather---
my best regards,Rick |
Author: Howard Brown
Monday, 06 January 2003 - 07:55 pm | |
| April: All the material mentioned is terrific. I didn't see Ivor Edwards' book, JACK THE RIPPER/BLACK MAGIC RITUALS.....Howard |
Author: Philip Rayner
Tuesday, 07 January 2003 - 04:52 am | |
Leaving aside all the questions about Sugden, the original post was about a good resource for a newcomer to the field. My own path to knowledge on the subject consisted of reading anything and everything on it. I ransacked the library, bought anything I could find and afford, watched documentaries etc.
I guess what I'm trying to say is anything will broaden your knowledge of the case but if you want a balanced view you need to read a good generalised history. What that is depends on whether you want to read a weighty, complicated view like Sugden's, a dip in as and when like the A-Z, or any of the non theory histories.
The bare bones of the case are contained in every theory book but only histories attempt to present ALL extant theories so I would not recommend a book which concentrates on one suspect. |
Author: Billy Markland
Tuesday, 07 January 2003 - 08:52 am | |
OK, as a neophyte still learning, my recommendations:
Sugden - a good chronology, overview of the case
A-Z - it really helps when you are on these boards
Ultimate JtR - nitty gritty detail (not a slam)
Paul Begg's newest - sets the stage wonderfully
Best of wishes,
Billy |
Author: Philip Rayner
Tuesday, 07 January 2003 - 11:09 am | |
All this talk of JTR has prompted me to dig out my dusty copy of Sugden and re-read it. I only managed to read it once in it's entirety and that was a while ago.
I also watched JTR-an ongoing mystery which, as mentioned before in the board leans heavily on Kosminsky as the Ripper.
I cannot bring myself to read the Diary of JTR and I have only just read Case closed both of which irritate me intensely but due to my participation in the boards my copy of the A-Z is now a fixture on my desk.
All the recommendations on this thread men that I now have to update my Ripper collection again. Looks like a trip to my local library with a shopping list.
Phil |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Tuesday, 07 January 2003 - 12:06 pm | |
Dear Phil:
That's always the way, isn't it?
Warm regards,
Divia |
Author: Christopher-Michael DiGrazia
Tuesday, 07 January 2003 - 01:59 pm | |
Phil -
Try being the editor of Ripper Notes for a while and see how many Ripper books your library ends up with! True, a lot of them are free review copies, but still. . .
Although, on the bright side, I learned my copy of Jack the Myth is going for nearly $200 these days. So when I head off to that big Scotland Yard in the sky, my executor will be able to auction off the books for a fair amount. |
Author: Philip Rayner
Tuesday, 07 January 2003 - 02:06 pm | |
Christopher
Are there any extant copies of the early books (Leonard Matters etc.) or any online resources I could refer to?
Don't suppose any of those free review copies need a new home? No thought not........
*Slinks off to a corner and sulks.* |
Author: Sir Robert Anderson
Tuesday, 07 January 2003 - 02:58 pm | |
"Try being the editor of Ripper Notes for a while and see how many Ripper books your library ends up with! "
Yeah, but that's why you get the big bucks, CMD !
Sir Robert |
Author: Christopher T George
Tuesday, 07 January 2003 - 04:39 pm | |
Yes, Sir Bob, CM is laughing all the way to the Dorset Street bank.  |
Author: Timsta
Tuesday, 07 January 2003 - 04:47 pm | |
Philip:
Ebay is a great source for those early works. I managed to get paperback copies of Matters and McCormick for not unreasonable sums ($5-10). I also have a nice hardback Cullen which wasn't too expensive.
Regards
Timsta |
Author: Howard Brown
Tuesday, 07 January 2003 - 06:40 pm | |
| Dear Posters....Ivor Edward's book JtR Black Magic Rituals recieved 5 stars( outta 5 ) in the Sunday Express newspaper book reviews, on January 5th....Have any of you English folks read the review ??? Lets hear it for the coolest best dude outta the Isle of Wight ! |
Author: Walter Timothy Mosley
Tuesday, 07 January 2003 - 08:18 pm | |
Hello, Howard:
Yes, I have read Ivor's book and found it a good read. It supplies much that other books don't, and answers the tough questions that often seem to be ignored elsewhere. In my opinion, Ivor did a much better job making a case for D'Onston than did his predecessors. Buy the book, why don't you, and see for yourself. You could do worse, and usually have.
WTM |
Author: Sir Robert Anderson
Wednesday, 08 January 2003 - 12:14 am | |
" In my opinion, Ivor did a much better job making a case for D'Onston than did his predecessors."
Howard and Walter,
Ivor's crafted a very fine piece of work. It's a terrific book. And kudos to him for particpating in these message boards.
Sir Robert |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Wednesday, 08 January 2003 - 02:50 pm | |
Howard,
Some people on the casebook in the UK do not bother with the book reviews in the Sunday Express they are far too busy spending their time checking out the scandals and naked ladies in the Sunday edition of the News of the World!!!
Many thanks to Howard, Tim, and Sir Robert for the kind comments. |
Author: David Radka
Wednesday, 08 January 2003 - 04:43 pm | |
I'm not going to buy Mr. Edward's book as I had planned, unless he apologises to me for his flatulence.
David |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Wednesday, 08 January 2003 - 07:17 pm | |
Mr Radka,
Stop acting like a prize prat and get a grip on yourself for once in your life. |
Author: Howard Brown
Wednesday, 08 January 2003 - 09:03 pm | |
| Ivor: My portly,flatulent,novelist- buddy....I'll buy a second copy of your book to cover the earth shattering loss of one of your potential readership. No loss,really. |
Author: David Radka
Wednesday, 08 January 2003 - 09:14 pm | |
I think I'll clip Ivor's book out of the library, just for jolly, to make sure he doesn't profit from my reading it. Wouldn't you?
David the Prat |
