Author: Vila
Monday, 09 December 2002 - 08:30 pm |        |
Hi,
Since I unexpectedly find myself back at home tonight due to a car wreck, I plan on watching "Case Closed" after all. I will be in the chat room before and after if anyone cares to talk.
(BTW, no injuries, just sore ribs from my seat belt, a little shock too, perhaps.)
Vila |
Author: julienonperson
Tuesday, 10 December 2002 - 11:20 am | |
Esther,
I caught that Patricia Cornwell Special on TLC
last night and frankly I was not impressed. Donald
Rumbalow spoke, but unless I missed it he did not at any time substanciate her Sickert as J t R
statements. With a few exceptions, the other
experts did not confirm undeniably, that Sickert
had to be the ripper. It seemed as though they were taking each little piece of "evidence" and
forcing it to fit. Just like the wicked step sisters in Cinderella trying to force their feet
into the tiny shoe.They also seemed to take bits
of this and that, where there was other simple
explanations(documented) and turn them into the
most foul, gholish circumstances that they could
come up with. Frankly I was bored and somewhat
amused at the amaturist way the whole thing was
presented. I'd be interested in hearing your comments.
Regards julie
IEsther |
Author: Caroline Morris
Tuesday, 10 December 2002 - 11:59 am | |
Hi Julie,
You could have been talking about our diary discussions here many moons ago, and the arguments for the Barretts forging the thing for a quick profit, anytime between mid-1989 and spring 1992, when you wrote:
'It seemed as though they were taking each little piece of "evidence" and forcing it to fit. Just like the wicked step sisters in Cinderella trying to force their feet into the tiny shoe. They also seemed to take bits of this and that, where there were other simple explanations...'
Now, who were the wicked step sisters in that particular pantomime? 
Love,
Caz |
Author: Garry Ross
Tuesday, 10 December 2002 - 12:09 pm | |
evening all,
My review went up on Worldbooks.co.uk and the PC book has now crashed out of the top ten - I doubt my review had any bearing on that but here it is, short but sweet:-
Garry Ross from Lincoln, UK writes PORTRAIT OF A KILLER - CASE CLOSED?
Rating: 2
An interesting book if taken for entertainment purposes only. Sadly lacking in real evidence and also ignoring various easily attainable facts, the book is let down in many departments. For people new to the whole 'Ripper' case I would suggest 'Jack the Ripper A-Z' (Begg, Fido and Skinner) and for those who'd like more info on the so called 'Ripper letters' etc try "Jack the Ripper and the Whitechapel murders" (Evans & Skinner). The Patricia Cornwell book left me crying out for real evidence and sadly it never came, it will still appeal to those who know nothing about the case and also those who won't think of checking against the facts but as far as 'Case closed' goes, we are still no nearer to the identity of the man the press called 'Jack The Ripper'.
09/12/2002 13:31:25
take care
Garry |
Author: julienonperson
Tuesday, 10 December 2002 - 01:15 pm | |
Hi Caz
Obviously you read into the P.C. special the same
as I did, assuming you saw it. I was very disappointed with the whole thing. I was even more
disappointed to see Donald Rumbalow even taking a
small part of such a crock. When you see someone
as well known as Donald doing the introduction,you
get the distinct impression that it is something
that he endorses, yet he did not, however I assume
he was paid well to appear, just to influence
persons who know very little about other JtR
theories, no doubt. But who could blame him for
that?
As for the diary,I was so convinced that it was
legit,but the experts have agreed to disagree.
No one will step up to the plate with undisputable
evidence one way or the other. And once Michael
Barrett confessed that it was forged, then recanted,I lost all faith in the honesty of the players.
Who is your choice Caz? Or would you rather not
say. I have several possibles only because there
isn't documented evidence one way or the other in
several cases. I am confused as to why Anderson
did not name his choice although if this person
was a lunatic, as I think Jack definately was,he
was probably not permitted to devulge this info.
It would have been helpful if he had at least
given the reasons for his statement that S.Yard
knew the idenity of JtR. What did this person do
or say to convince Anderson of his guilt?
Regardsjulie |
Author: Caroline Morris
Tuesday, 10 December 2002 - 02:02 pm | |
Hi Julie,
I have no 'choice' right now, but none of the usual suspects fit for me, whether you mean ripper suspects or forgery suspects.
My opinion, and it is just that, with no bells on, and pretty worthless because I can't prove it, is that no Barrett, Graham, Devereux, Kane or Johnson had a hand in creating or handling a known modern forgery - no way, no how.
Alright you 'orrible lot out there - prove me wrong. I think it's supposed to work that way round. 
Love,
Caz |
Author: John Hacker
Tuesday, 10 December 2002 - 02:46 pm | |
Peter,
I wouldn't dream of trying to convince you otherwise! :-) I may not agree with you, but I do admire the strength of your convinction.
I hope you're doing well.
Regards,
John |
Author: Vila
Tuesday, 10 December 2002 - 03:01 pm | |
Hello everyone,
I did watch most of Patsy's special last night... I say most because it put me to sleep about 3/4s of the way through. The whole thing was rife with little digs at the real experts of the ripper investigation. Though the bit with Rumbelow (sp?) did come across to me as if he were saying that there are all kinds of crackpot theories out there and this was just one more of them. (Purely subjective on my part, perhaps, but that is the way I interpreted his statement.)
But one thing did strike me as odd, Patsy being shown flying in her helicopter, Patsy being shown in her Lear Jet, Patsy in her mansion, Patsy in her flashy car... et al. These little bits made the program seem more like an advert for Patsy's wealth than a serious investigation. There was no need to show these things, except perhaps as filler for a show sadly lacking in real detail concerning the crimes.
There was one *laugh out loud* moment: When Patsy & her dream team of experts were shown parading about like the Magnificent Seven on the way to a shoot-out. One usually doesn't see such an obviously contrived scene outside of the theater. I had a fit of giggles when I saw it.
As to the DNA testing sequences, her experts were wearing gloves, but I saw that none of them were wearing masks to keep their breath from contaminating the samples they were taking. Nor were they wearing *clean-room* suits of protective clothing to prevent contamination either. Just street clothes.
To give the lady her due, she did seem to be using a lot of "possibly", "could be", etc. in her speeches to make an effort to show objectivity, but the general tone of her words belied that as a whole.
To someone who knew only the name "Jack the Ripper" about the crimes, this program might be very persuasive, but to anyone who has taken the time to study even a few of the other theories and suspects in the case this program would appear to be "just another theory in search of believers."
Unless another multi-millionaire decides to conduct their own investigation in the future to disagree with Patsy, I fear that she will have done a lot of harm to anyone fresh to the investigation who is exposed to her book and publicity campaign.
One question: Did anyone else get the feeling that Donald R. was trying to be dismissive of Patsy and was heavily edited?
Vila |
Author: Peter Wood
Tuesday, 10 December 2002 - 03:43 pm | |
Reasonably well John. Works a bind, far too many irons in far too many fires. You?
I just wish I had something new to say on the diary ...oh, I do have something new to say on the diary! But I'm not allowed to ...
Yet.
Enigmatically Yours
Peter. |
Author: Crissy Burroughs
Tuesday, 10 December 2002 - 09:04 pm | |
Hi All,
I am totally new to this, and I was just surprised really but the jumps she seemed, at least to me to make. I mean she was so sure about Sickert's guilt once she saw the painting-Jack the Rippers bedroom. As an Artist, I have done many pieces that were thought up due to current events.. I think her jumps were, if anything not very scientific.
Truely,
Crissy |
Author: Howard Brown
Tuesday, 10 December 2002 - 09:08 pm | |
| Dear Vila; One minute she's romping at Hilton Head with bulldogs,the next minute she's gutting dummies...Yeah,I got the same vibe from her,Vila. I agree that the overt opulence didn't set well with my prole,prole heart either......She did seem like she was tryin to stuff 10 pounds of,er..sugar,into a 5 pound bag.....She came off a little too "pop star' for me.....Its funny,but that John Grieve stated in a Ripper documentary in which "Kosminski" was the flavor of the month,that he felt that JtR was an unorganized killer,unlike what Mrs. Cornwell believes. He probably had to be edited too...I also "liked" how that art critic dude bopped onto the scene..another expert..I dunno,Vila,but to me Walter Sickert had a fixation on Jack The Ripper and Mrs. Cornwell has one on Walter Sickert....One note,that wasn't the Magnificent Seven,that was the Hungarian Women's Sumo Team....Later |
Author: Christopher T George
Wednesday, 11 December 2002 - 08:31 am | |
Hi, Crissy et al:
Crissy, welcome to the Casebook. We hope you find your time here informative. The Casebook can become very addictive, so watch out!!! Just what we need, another Chris, Christian, or Crissy!!! 
In regards to the Learning Channel airing of the Patricia Cornwell special "Case Closed" I found it interesting that Dr. Paul Ferrara, head of the Virginia Forensic Institute, who was a key member of Cornwell's team in the DNA analyses, was very careful to say that she has not definitively proven that Sickert was the Ripper. So despite the author's hyperbolic statements that she has solved the case, her team members clearly do not fully support that view.
In regard to Don Rumbelow's appearance on the special, and that of Sickert biographer Richard Shone, Julie, I think you have to realise that any expert who speaks on camera in a documentary does not have control over how the interview is to be used by the producer. I know from personal experience that the producer will only use part of what the authority has said. True, Rumbelow's mere appearance on the show might be taken as endorsement of Cornwell's theory, but it would be foolish to make that assumption. You will note that in the footage shown in no way did Don say that Walter Sickert was the Ripper. I can say that I do know that Don and most experts on the case doubt her theory and that they believe that she has not so far proven her case.
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: Crissy Burroughs
Wednesday, 11 December 2002 - 01:41 pm | |
Greetings and Salutations
Thank you for the very warm welcome Chris, I am very glad to have found this place. I just also wanted to add, I wonder how many people, now actually think they have found Jack the Ripper... In classes today, ~World History~ Someone spoke up about it. Wondering why they saw this special on TLC but didn't hear anything on the News about it. I just hope that like I, they decide to look around and become interested in this case.
Hope everyone is having a great week...
Crissy |
Author: Dan Norder
Wednesday, 11 December 2002 - 08:32 pm | |
Crissy,
Welcome to the boards. There have been enough people falsely claiming to have solved the ripper killings that most news programs and, especially, history teachers know to ignore them. Cornwell is completely worth ignoring, and if she weren't already a famous fiction writer nobody would have paid the slightest attention to this string of innuendo and wild assumptions that she uses in place of evidence.
Dan
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Author: Jeffrey L Adamson
Thursday, 12 December 2002 - 02:08 pm | |
Two quick things.....
First...Mitochondrial DNA testing has been performed successfully on tooth material from someone who died in 1882. Dr. Mark Stoneking of Penn State University used it to identify the body of Jesse James back in 1996.
And a question...Has Ms. Cornwell explained why she thinks that the author of the Ripper letters would so often predict/threaten things that never happened, or why ANY killer who was taunting the police would deliberately lie? Surely you can't use only the tone of a letter to determine whether or not its genuine, you have to go by content as well.......right? |
Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 12 December 2002 - 02:42 pm | |
Hi, Jeff:
Your point about Dr. Mark Stoneking of Penn State University having successfully used mitochondrial DNA testing to identify the body of Jesse James in 1996 is well taken, but the point is that Patricia Cornwell does not have the body of Walter Sickert to even know that the mitochondrial DNA she is testing is Sickert's. Nor does she know that the Ripper letters she is testing were sent by the killer. She is then in a sense testing nothing against nothing and then claiming she has something. Then she wonders why the world looks askance at her for her claims.
As for her contention that Sickert wrote hundreds of letters, apparently the taunting tone of the letters is enough for her to think they were by the same individual, a bizarre enough claim since the letters are written in all styles of handwriting, on all manner of stationery, postcards, scraps of newspaper, etc., showing different levels of intelligence and literacy. Thus having made such a broad, sweeping assertion, she can hardly down to worrying about why the authors so often predict/threaten things that never happened. That might be a bit too logical, don't you think, Jeff? 
All the best
Chris George |
Author: Jeffrey L Adamson
Thursday, 12 December 2002 - 03:18 pm | |
Chris,
My point about the 1996 testing was also to show that by no means is Ms. Cornwell the first one attempting to test old DNA samples. I often see television remarks from her talking about how she's taking scientific testing farther than anyone has before.
As far as her logic....maybe it is too logical I was just curious if anyone had asked her about the content of the letters being a major factor of them being considered hoaxes. |
Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 12 December 2002 - 11:17 pm | |
Hi, Jeff:
Yes a good point that Ms. Cornwell is not the first to apply a DNA investigation to a case over a century old as she has claimed.
As you may have gathered, Patricia Cornwell so far has not allowed a full debate or dialogue about her findings. In the two encounters I had with her in Washington, D.C., on November 19 I wanted to talk to her more about her claims about the letters but she would not allow it. One of the points that I wanted to make not only about the "predictions" made in the letters was if Sickert wrote the letters, why did he stop writing them? As we know the letters began to tail off in 1889 and in the 1890s. But Sickert lived until 1942. What's Ms. Cornwell's explanation for why he ceased writing the letters. Maybe his writing hand hurt him too much?
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: Ky
Friday, 13 December 2002 - 12:58 am | |
Hi All,
I hope this isn't yet another road already traveled, but I was wondering about the guest book that contained the sketch that Ms. Cornwell found to be similar to a sketch on a Ripper letter. Was Sickerts signature in the guest book near the sketch? Or is she assuming that because he had been there in the past he must be the sketcher? Although there seems to be a similarity it looks to be vague at best.
Thanks Ky |
Author: Peter R.A. Birchwood
Friday, 13 December 2002 - 05:18 am | |
| As my part of Wales is unused to any developments later than the 1910 patent for the Rodney Jones automatic sheep feeding machine we do not receive digital TV here. Is there some kind person who could tape the December 17th Cornwell road show for me? |
Author: Christopher T George
Friday, 13 December 2002 - 09:12 am | |
Hi, Peter:
If the latest technological development in your part of Wales is, as you say, the 1910 patent Rodney Jones automatic sheep feeding machine, how will you view the videotape if someone makes you one, since presumably you don't run to a VCR? Perhaps though you could view it on one of the penny peep show slot machines on Aberystwyth pier?
All the best
Chris |
Author: Esther Wilson
Friday, 13 December 2002 - 10:42 am | |
I finally sat down to watch the TLC special on Cornwell's findings. All I can say is that the best part of the program to me was watching her play with her dogs!
Esther |
Author: Kevin Braun
Friday, 13 December 2002 - 12:08 pm | |
Esther,
I thought the best part of the program was watching her play with the red Ferrari 355 Spyder. Great car, reasonably priced.
Take care,
Kevin |
Author: Christopher T George
Friday, 13 December 2002 - 12:41 pm | |
Hi Kevin & Esther:
Indeed! The TLC Special certainly showed us how a Jet Set Ripper writer lives, didn't it? Sporting round in a red Ferrari 355 Spyder, running along a deserted stretch of beach in spandex with five bulldogs, buying and taking apart a painting by a famous artist, jetting to London in a Leer Jet, marching up to the PRO with their "Team" shoulder to shoulder like the A Team! Wow-ee! 
Chris |
Author: Christopher T George
Friday, 13 December 2002 - 12:53 pm | |
Hi, Ky:
The best that Patricia Cornwell can say about the annotations and drawings in the Lizard House guest book is that she "believes" the drawings were done by Sickert and that the guest house was "frequented by artists." As for whether there is a signature written by Sickert near the drawings, there is no such signature in the book. But she says, "in very small writing in pencil, almost in the gutter of the book, there appears to be the monogram 'W' on top of an 'R,' followed by an 'S,' and the date 'October 1889.'" She makes the point that the entries in the guest book appear to end July 15, 1888 but that someone whom she terms "the vandal" went through the book doodling and scribbling at some later date. She writes that she believes those drawings and annotations were done by Walter Sickert in October 1889.
Best regards
Chris |
Author: Billy Markland
Friday, 13 December 2002 - 02:09 pm | |
LOL!!!! The visual imagination required to picture either Evans, Beggs, Sugden, Skinner et. al. running down the beach in spandex is too much for my teeny brain.
Gotta go find a corner to laugh myself silly
Billy |
Author: Christopher T George
Friday, 13 December 2002 - 02:22 pm | |
PORTRAIT OF A KILLER:
Jack the Ripper
Case Closed
From: http://www.patriciacornwell.com
The identity of the killer has remained one of the world's greatest unsolved mysteries, and a wealth of theories have been posited which have pointed the finger at royalty, a barber, a doctor, a woman, and an artist. Using her formidable range of forensic and technical skills, Patricia Cornwell has applied the rigorous discipline of 21st century police investigation to the extant material, and here presents the hard evidence that the perpetrator of the Whitechapel Murders was the world famous artist, Walter Sickert.
By using techniques unknown in the late Victorian era, Patricia Cornwell has exposed Sickert as the author of the infamous Ripper letters to the Metropolitan Police. Her detailed analysis of his paintings show that his art continually depicted his horrific mutilation of his victims, and her examination of this man's birth defects, the consequent genital surgical interventions, and their effects on his upbringing present a casebook example of how a psychopathic killer is created.
With her knowledge of criminal investigation and her consummate skills as a bestselling writer, Patricia Cornwell has produced a book which is as compelling as it is authentic and pays due respect to the people whose early deaths spawned one of the twentieth century's least attractive entertainment industries -- Mary Ann Nichols, Annie Chapman, Elizabeth Stride, Catherine Eddows, and Mary Kelly. |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Friday, 13 December 2002 - 09:13 pm | |
To Patricia Cornwall, As I know you are out there somewhere looking in.
Jack is dead likewise are his victims and nothing you can do will help bring them back.
So why don't you spend another 6 million dollars attempting to catch one of your very own home grown serial killers such as the likes of the Green River Killer.As yet it does not appear that the rigorous disipline of 21st century police investigations have been applied to such cases. You might get to save a few lives for your money and obtain some job satisfaction in the process. |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Friday, 13 December 2002 - 09:20 pm | |
| Why have only 5 victims been named when Miss Cornwall believes dozens and dozens of ripper victims including children existed ? |
Author: Howard Brown
Friday, 13 December 2002 - 09:37 pm | |
| She can claim that Ivor,because she is an entertainer/fiction writer. A lot of people who have marginal/minimal interest in the case will read her book and get all spine-tingly,put the book back on the shelf next to the Harlequin@ Romance series,and go watch "Friends"...and look for the next buzz......she got her money,she's outta here ! Hopefully,she'll go track down the Abominable Snowdude next,on foot,in that garish swim-suit she had on in her documentary... |
Author: David O'Flaherty
Friday, 13 December 2002 - 11:35 pm | |
Caleb Carr's review of 'Portrait of a Killer' in the New York Times: link
Dave |
Author: Lily
Friday, 13 December 2002 - 11:40 pm | |
Hello all - I'm brand new! First let me say that I hope Vila is doing fine after her car wreck. Secondly (and this is not meant in a judgemental manner) I don't even think this website should have a posting area that addresses Cornwell's book. Why waste time writing about one person's scatty research, when there are legitimate Ripperologists' works to discuss? Devoting any webspace to her seems to be a shame, only in the way that it seems to validate her perception of herself as a serious investigator of the Ripper murders.
Thanks for letting me vent! |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Saturday, 14 December 2002 - 12:23 am | |
| Scrapped |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Saturday, 14 December 2002 - 12:25 am | |
Lily,
Great idea to say the least and you are more than welcome here if I may say so.Your words are an inspiration to us all and surely you must be heaven sent because you have hit the nail on the head. In future I for one will never comment on these boards again about the woman you have named or her book and I advise others to take your advice.
PS. Anymore like you at home ? if so we need more like you here. |
Author: Ky
Saturday, 14 December 2002 - 02:25 am | |
Chris,
Thanks for the info on the Lizard House Guest Book. P.C.'s conclusions seem tenuous at best. I find the various drawings on the letters to be interesting, my hubby and mother are both artists who work in several different media. While they can vary styles within each media, their sketching hand remains consistent. This makes me wonder how anyone can see the many styles of drawings on the letters and conclude that they were done by the same person!
Many Thanks
Ky |
Author: Christopher T George
Saturday, 14 December 2002 - 05:54 am | |
Hi, Ky:
In linking Sickert both to the sketches in the Lizard House guest book and drawings in the Ripper letters, Cornwell ignores the fact that the sketches in the guest book are often better drawn than the crude sketches in the Ripper communications with more fully formed hands, etc. The guest book sketches, as I commented and even she says, are not 100% proven to be by Sickert but are only believed to be by him. Since as she notes, the guest house was frequented by artists, it could have been one of the other artists or several artists who did the sketches. She also shows in her book sketches that are known to be Sickert, coming I believe from the Sickert archive at the Tate Gallery. Although these are of stick-like figures, they are superior in technique to the doodles in the Ripper letters or, to my eye, even perhaps those in the guest book.
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: Christopher T George
Saturday, 14 December 2002 - 08:32 pm | |
Hi, Ivor:
Questions have been raised in the press about Cornwell using in her team investigators from the Virginia Forensic Institute who should have been investigating ongoing cases in Virginia instead of travelling to London in 2001 to investigate, at that time, a 113-year-old "cold case." For example, I understand from a reporter with the Richmond Times-Despatch that these people should have been involved at that time in identifying the bodies of people killed in the September 11, 2000 Pentagon terrorist incident. Dr. Paul Ferrara, director of the Institute, was asked about this and he answered that the individuals, which included himself, went to London "on their own time."
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: Vila
Saturday, 14 December 2002 - 08:54 pm | |
Lily,
I suffered no injuries in the wreck other than very sore ribs from the seat belt and some back / neck aches that faded after 2 or 3 days. I just got in from my first day at work after the wreck, and things are back to normal for me. Thank you, and also thanks go out to everyone posting here for their kind words and well wishes.
Oh, I'm a 45 year old man, by the way, but don't worry about the gender confusion as my nickname isn't one of those that are obviously either male of female. No offence taken. In fact, I got a giggle out of your post on that regard.
As for wasting time on Patsy and her book; Put it down to everyone wishing to insure that newcomers to the Casebook get a more rounded view of the various theories, just in case that Patsy's book was their first exposure to the Ripper murders.
That's a polite way of saying that we enjoy arguing about it, anyway. (big grin)
Vila |
Author: Howard Brown
Saturday, 14 December 2002 - 10:30 pm | |
| Maybe you've started a new trend,Vila....I got into an auto accident today coming home from work...Im pretty sure my car is totalled...the transmission is shot and the frame is really damaged. Some teenage chick blew a stop sign..Scared the hell outta my little girl.. |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Saturday, 14 December 2002 - 11:10 pm | |
Hi Chris,
Interesting information you have obtained in relation to everyone downing tools and deciding to take a holiday at the same time to the UK!!! And getting paid for the holiday as well I wonder if they were on treble time!!! |
