Archive through 12 November 2002

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Archive through 12 November 2002

Casebook Message Boards: Ripper Suspects: Ripper Suspects: Cornwell Archives: Archive through 12 November 2002

Author: Dan Norder Friday, 08 November 2002 - 06:24 pm
Brian, Actually, Cornwell claims that Sickert committed several murders after Kelly (and Coles). Lots of them, in fact. She's just, how shall we say, providing even less factual basis (if that were possible) to support that claim. Dan
Author: Brian Schoeneman Friday, 08 November 2002 - 06:48 pm
Dan, Thanks for the info - we've been a bit out of the loop over here on Cornwell's ideas. Oddly enough the American writer doesn't seem to want us Americans to know anything about her theories. I'm looking forward to seeing her on Today on Monday. I hope they put her on before 9 so I can catch her before work. How many victims does she claim Sickert had? B
Author: Jim Jenkinson Friday, 08 November 2002 - 07:46 pm
Chris T, I quite agree with your comments, that is a salient point. Cheers Jim
Author: Christopher T George Friday, 08 November 2002 - 08:46 pm
Hi, Brian: Nice to see you here. To answer your question, Patricia Cornwell makes no solid claim of a death toll for Sickert since she lacks the facts to back it up. She is savvy enough to know that a sexual serial killer keeps on killing and simply theorizes a death toll of up to forty by the time of his death in 1942. Left unexplained is why the extreme savagery of mutilation in the Mary Jane Kelly murder was never repeated and why Sickert's alleged later crimes did not duplicate the distinct signature of the Ripper murders. Best regards Chris George
Author: Brian Schoeneman Friday, 08 November 2002 - 09:31 pm
Chris, Thanks for letting me know. I don't know why any person - especially a best selling author - would become so attached to a pet theory that she'd spend so much money, and waste so much time trying to prove the theory true. Then again, perhaps the reason why she is so vociferous about it is that she has to justify the money she's spent to herself. B
Author: Christopher T George Friday, 08 November 2002 - 10:40 pm
Hi, Brian: I rather think what you are saying is true to some extent, that Patricia Cornwell's vociferousness is to justify what she has spent to prove her case. I have read a number of Ms. Cornwell's mystery novels and have enjoyed them, but I think she is out of her depth in this investigation. Her claim, for example, that scores of the Ripper letters, as many as 150, could have been sent by the killer is absurd. The letters are written in numerous different styles of handwriting and display different levels of literacy and tone. Sickert's own handwriting in the letter she claims to have found a mDNA match with the Openshaw letter is startlingly different to the handwriting in that "Ripper" letter which of course has not been proven to be from the killer anyway. Best regards Chris George
Author: Brian Schoeneman Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 01:35 am
Chris, I noticed that as well. I don't see how any reasonable individual can look at all of the letters and find some sort of pattern. They are obviously completely different, and half of them make threats that were never carried out - "I'll kill fifteen and then stop" or "I'll do a mother and daughter next". I'm in the group who believes the "From Hell" letter to be authentic, but PC couldn't even DNA test that one as it's not with us anymore. Funny, the one letter that if tested MAY have swayed me is the one letter she can't test. I'm still interested to see her speak. I wish I could make it to Tennessee. B
Author: Spryder Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 09:46 am
One of the less-flattering articles on Cornwell's Omnibus programme I've come across (and one of the more amusing): -------------------------------------------------- Done up like a Ripper Patricia Cornwell's character assassination of the artist Walter Sickert was in a class of its own Andrew Anthony Sunday November 3, 2002 The Observer Take a huge slab of uncooked beef. Slice it down the middle and insert a generous portion of purple intestines. Now wrap the meat in six layers of natural fibres and attack with a large knife. Remove the intestines and toss them roughly over the shoulder of the beef, then reach inside the wound and feel around for a kidney. 'We all know what they look like,' announced our chef du jour , the bestselling crime novelist, Patricia Cornwell. 'In fact, the English eat kidneys.' Cornwell may lack Nigella's culinary finesse, but she knows how to flambé a reputation. In Omnibus, we saw her cook up a case against the artist, Walter Sickert, in an effort to prove that he was none other than Jack the Ripper. The above recipe was her re-enactment of one of the Ripper's murders. 'Gross?' she asked, as she surveyed the offal spread across her kitchen table. 'OK, but this is what he did.' An intense woman, not given to long silences, Cornwell believes that we have become desensitised to violence, and she sees it as her job to show us what it really entails, even if that means entrails. I'm not sure she need have displayed quite so much creative imagination in distributing the guts - 'When he pulls the stuff out he's just throwing it. Why? Because she's spurting blood out of her neck' - and I'm not sure that focusing on the crime scene photographs wasn't desensitising itself. But Cornwell is nothing if not sure. She announced herself absolutely positive that Sickert is guilty of the Ripper crimes, as well as various other murders, and offers up some compelling coincidences by way of corroboration. Through meticulous research, she was able to prove, for example, that the artist was, like the Ripper, a man and, furthermore, that he was living in London at the same time as the killings took place in Whitechapel in 1888. Not satisfied with locating her suspect within miles of the crime, however, Cornwell went further and even managed to uncover a motive. Apparently, as a child, Sickert had an operation on his penis, the result of which is not known. You wouldn't call such evidence circumstantial, so much as circumcised. 'I think he had a tremendous rage about this loss of manhood,' said Cornwall. Ergo, he dismembered five women. And how about this: Sickert entitled one of his paintings Jack the Ripper's Bedroom, and in another he depicts a woman lying at a strange angle wearing a necklace. Do the words 'open' and 'shut' spring to mind? The reason she targeted Sickert, Cornwell explained, had nothing to do with needing to find a villain for the book she was writing on the Ripper, and everything to do with gaining justice for his victims. As a modern American, abandoned by her father, sexually assaulted by a work colleague, she also saw herself as a victim. 'One of the reasons I have so much compassion for victims is that I know what it feels like to be one.' Pedants might argue that there is a difference between having your bum pinched and your internal organs removed. They might also point out that justice cuts both ways. But in her effort to show empathy with the Ripper's victims, Cornwell showed no sympathy for the man she has so damningly victimised. Watching some home-movie footage of an ancient Sickert, shot just before his death, she said of the bearded old gent: 'Evil, cold, sinister; what a self-centred, unfeeling son of a bitch he is.' Cornwell spent $6 million on her investigation and she seems to have bought the goodwill of a number of so-called experts who should have known better. Hippocrates said life was short and art long. Belittling art by telling tall tales about the dead, that's the work of hypocrites. ---------------- BTW: The latest issue of Vanity Fair has come out, with a large, illustrated spread on Walter Sickert and Jack the Ripper.
Author: David O'Flaherty Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 11:21 am
Brian, Sorry, I've missed something--is Pat Cornwell speaking in Tennessee? Dave
Author: Dean James Hines Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 02:30 pm
Dave, I think PC is speaking gibberish!
Author: David O'Flaherty Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 02:44 pm
Dean, Yes, I agree But I'd attend a lecture, just to hear it from her own mouth. I was wondering if Brian had heard she was going to be at one of the local colleges here. Dave
Author: Spryder Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 02:49 pm
David - P.C. is speaking at the U of Tennessee on the 17th, I believe. Check the homepage of the Casebook for more information.
Author: David O'Flaherty Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 02:52 pm
Thanks for the heads up, Stephen. Dave
Author: Spryder Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 03:00 pm
Another appearance by Patricia Cornwell, for those of us in the Washington, D.C. area.... part of the Smithsonian Resident Associates Program... Quote: Patricia Cornwell: Jack The Ripper - Case Closed Exclusive Washington Appearance! Tues., Nov. 19, 7 p.m. "No one depicts the human capability for evil better than Patricia Cornwell." -USA Today After much elaborate research, best-selling author Patricia Cornwell reached a startling conclusion:Victorian London�s serial murderer Jack the Ripper was none other than a respected painter, whose work is now collected by some of the world's finest museums! This discovery is the subject of Cornwell's latest work of nonfiction- and the focus of an engrossing evening her fans won't want to miss! Portrait of a Killer: Jack the Ripper- Case Closed (Putnam) is available for signing after the program. Location: Lisner Auditorium, 730 21st St. N.W. (Foggy Bottom Metro, Blue/Orange line) $15 a ticket, apparently. http://residentassociates.org/rap/otonov/cornwell.asp
Author: Christopher T George Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 04:21 pm
Hi, Spry: I have just booked for Ms. Cornwell's Washington appearance at the Smithsonian. Will I see you and Ally there? All the best Chris
Author: Brian Schoeneman Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 04:31 pm
Stephen, Lisner's on GW's campus, so it's basically in my backyard. If anyone (Chris, anyone else) wants to get together to see this, let me know and we can set something up. I'll have to see if I can find any free tickets too. Lisner's kinda stingy, but I have my sources. B
Author: Vicki Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 07:04 pm
Hi all! This sight was posted already, but I wanted to see if anyone else can see the dead bird (dove?) lying on the man's lap on its back in the Camden Town Murder etching? Its wing is just above the man's right elbow, and one of the claws is on the wall by the bed frame, right side. Its beak is turned toward the top of the wing. It looks as thought it had been shot. The bird can be seen a lot better in a close-up of the picture. http://slate.msn.com/?id=2073560 Vicki
Author: Harry Mann Sunday, 10 November 2002 - 04:15 am
"I am laughing all the way to the bank".Someone famous once said that,and I suppose Patricia Cornwall might say the same thing,and good luck to her. I am sure all or most of her detractors will hurry to buy her book,and scamper to attend her appearances,and watch her T.V. shows paying good money to do so.All at the same time deriding her and her book and her theory. And authors and columnists will add their two cents,piling on more derision,but wishing at the same time they were the object of the attention she is receiving,and more importantly the receipient of the expected flood of silver dollars. Which side of the fence does the fool stand?.
Author: Peter Wood Sunday, 10 November 2002 - 08:02 am
Hi guys Look, I'm typing this just to get my views on Pat Cornwell down - and I'm doing it without having read through the archives to see what y'all have said, so forgive me for repeating anything someone else may have said. I saw the hour long documentary on PC and Sickert in the UK and surprisingly enjoyed it. The subject matter was very thin on the ground, but all in all it was well presented. Pat does make some leaps of faith though, doesn't she? Bigger ones than PHF made with James Maybrick's diary, right? By the way, what is mDNA? I know what DNA is, but what is the other stuff? Having failed to get a DNA match from one of the ripper letters to Sickert, the "experts" then said they couldn't rule Sickert out of a mDNA match. That's not the same as saying they've found a match though, is it? The similarities in his paintings and the crime scenes were most interesting, but hardly surprising seeing as he was an artist and artists have to get their inspiration from somewhere. I mean, if I paint a picture of Princess Diana - does that mean I was the driver of the car on the night she died? That painting in Manchester? Jack the Ripper's bedroom? Did anyone see the huge leap in reasoning that Pat made there? Someone paints a picture called Jack the Ripper's bedroom and that therefore makes them the Ripper? How does that work? Nevertheless, I shall be hoping that Santa will be putting Pat Cornwell's book in my stocking this Christmas, along with Roy Keane's - many hints have already been dropped - and I will look forward to reading it. Regards Peter Not Pete.
Author: Brian Schoeneman Sunday, 10 November 2002 - 09:00 am
Peter, mtDNA is "mitochrondial DNA". Here's a quick reference on the subject, but I'll warn you that it's full of DNA-specific doublespeak: Mitochondrial DNA Info Basically, for forensics, you can do two types of DNA tests: regular DNA (or nuclear DNA) and mitochondrial (mtDNA). mtDNA is useful when you are working with severely degraded samples because there are more mitochondrial DNA strands in cells than there are nuclear. (Hundreds of mtDNA strands vs. 2 nuclear). So for old samples like those that PC is dealing with, you are pretty much forced into using mDNA. Here's the advantages - first, mtDNA is passed by through the mother. So if you have living relatives of the person you are typing, you can show a link between the DNA. This is helpful. The second advantage, is needing less material to type. Here are the disadvantages - It's not as accurate. You are never going to be able to specifically match people with a high degree of certainty using this technique, because ANY relatives with a common maternal line are going to show up the same. So if Sickert's great-great-great-great-grandmother was the same as mine, we'd have similar mtDNA strands (but I don't think PC would write a book about me). So basically when they say they "couldn't rule Sickert out" it basically means that there's a possibility of a match, but then there are also millions of others who are also in that same category. In my mind, PC has a good case that Sickert probably faked a Ripper letter. But the mtDNA isn't really that compelling that he actually was the Ripper. B
Author: Vicki Sunday, 10 November 2002 - 05:50 pm
Peter, mDNA is what they used to find where the first Eve came from, which turned out to be in Africa. They used samplings from all over the world. If a woman only has male children, her mDNA will dead end with those sons. Vicki
Author: Brian Schoeneman Monday, 11 November 2002 - 07:49 am
All, Anyone else catch PC on Today this morning? My god is the woman full of herself. Matt Lauer starts talking about JtR and she immediately substitutes Sickert's name in for it. At the end of the interview, Matt asked "So you got all of this evidence, and you showed it to Scotland Yard. What did they do?" And she answers "I showed all of it to 'my friend at the Yard' and he told me that with all of the info there, he'd take it to court." Well, I've heard you can indict a ham sandwich, but that'd be one fun case to watch - as it turns into a dismissal. B
Author: Spryder Monday, 11 November 2002 - 07:54 am
Ally and I just caught it.... I'd like to know which reviewer called the book, something to the effect of, "The most incredible true-crime book of the past century." The interview was fluff, as usual.
Author: Mark Andrew Pardoe Monday, 11 November 2002 - 02:39 pm
Do you all know the police have taken many cases to court and the supposed fellon was found either not guilty or guilty only to be released and given a pardon at a later date. So for Patsy to say her "friends" at Scotland Yard would take it to court means noewt. (I am not writing this to annoy Stewart Evans or any other ex-policeman on this site). Cheers, Mark (hoping the policemen reading this are not checking his car number plate)
Author: Jim DiPalma Monday, 11 November 2002 - 04:26 pm
Hi All, Brian, I saw the Cornwell piece on Today this morning. Full of herself?? Did you catch the bit where Lauer asked about the investigation, and PC responded with something to the effect of 'well, Scotland Yard had tons of forensic evidence from the case, they had all these Jack the Ripper letters just sitting around in their files. No one thought to test them for DNA'. At that, I almost choked on my bagel. The palpable implication was those poor, clueless dumbasses from Scotland Yard had been sitting on crucial evidence all these years, and didn't realize it until PC came riding to the rescue. Honestly, I think the woman believes she is the main character in her novels. No mention of the fact that the letters are almost certainly hoaxes, and as such, any DNA test results would be inconclusive. Lauer let her slide on both those points, he didn't press her at all. Pure fluff, indeed. Cheers, Jim
Author: Vicki Monday, 11 November 2002 - 07:08 pm
Hi all, Here is the Today Show, NBC, link. It has the Cornwell interview on the video link. http://www.msnbc.com/news/832472.asp?0sl=-10#BODY Vicki
Author: Vicki Monday, 11 November 2002 - 10:36 pm
Oh well, Something happened to the link. Try doing a direct link through the site. Vicki
Author: brad mcginnis Tuesday, 12 November 2002 - 01:20 am
Hi All, I missed the interview Monday morning but was able to view it at msnbc.com. You all are right, it was fluff. Corny claims to have even more evidence now. Hmmm....I see none. I do see an interesting series of books ahead as P.C. solves the mysteries of the world. "Corny Captures the Lindbergh Baby Killer", "Corny's Quest for the Holy Grail" and finally her masterpiece, "Corny vrs. Godzilla". See you you in chat, Brad
Author: David Lewis Tuesday, 12 November 2002 - 07:17 am
Hi everyone, I come and go on this site, but thought I'd just say that PC seems to have missed that rare adn hardly useful 'Jack the Ripper A - Z', (irony for those who miss it). Has any Ripperologist gotten stuck into her publicly?
Author: Brian Schoeneman Tuesday, 12 November 2002 - 09:43 am
David, I don't know, but I hope Spryder flays her when she's in DC - I would, but I'm stuck giving a presentation that night. B
Author: Eliza Cline Tuesday, 12 November 2002 - 12:21 pm
I suggest a "mock trial" of Sickert for the crimes of Jack the Ripper. How about Vince Bugliosi for the prosecution and Gerry Spence for the defense. I know I would love to be the defense attorney on that one. It would be pretty easy to poke holes in the case.
Author: Walter Timothy Mosley Tuesday, 12 November 2002 - 01:21 pm
Read and be ill, as I was. http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/features/1657313 "These Ripper people are understandably very angry. They don't want somebody else to find out the suspect. It ruins their party." Puh-leeze. WTM
Author: Scott E. Medine Tuesday, 12 November 2002 - 02:48 pm
Unfortunately Eliza, in the US it would probably not go to trial as a number of Judges I have spoken to site lack of probable cause for the arrest warrant. Judges are like that. I really could not picture any prosecutor accepting the evidence......errrr scratch that. The Fulton County Prosecutor in Atlanta would, at least he did so with the Ray Lewis fiasco. If you think about it, PC is short for Probable Cause and are the intials for Patricia Cornwell. Probable Cause is the basis of search and arrest warrants, without it you do not have a Judge's signature. Its also the one thing that Patricia Cornwell lacks. Maybe she should hit the golf courses with OJ and the Ramseys and assist them. Peace, Scott
Author: Ally Tuesday, 12 November 2002 - 02:53 pm
Ramseys? ::cough, cough:: Did someone say Ramseys?
Author: judith stock Tuesday, 12 November 2002 - 05:45 pm
Well, now we know....Cornwell has found us out!!! Not one of the posters on these boards really wants to name the Ripper!! All those books about who he was were written because the author WANTED to be questioned, defamed and interrogated. ALL the Ripper books were written because no one wanted to know, but SHE has the answer. Her US TV ads appeared yesterday, and states categorically "I am 100% certain this case is solved." Guys, it appears our farce has been exposed, Stephen can close this site down, and we can all retire, since Ms Thingie has answered every one of our questions, and solved EVERY problem we have now, or may have in future! The only possible benefit we may gain from all her crap is that more people will wander through this site, and find useful information; the drawbacks are the same as with the Knight theory and the DD...we will expend time and energy trying to correct the volumes of MISinformation that is dispensed by someone whose eyes are very brown for a good reason......that she is full of s***. Sorry, I just couldn't resist! J
Author: Spryder Tuesday, 12 November 2002 - 06:44 pm
Patricia Cornwell Upcoming Appearances November 12 Crier Today appearance Patricia Cornwell will appear on the nationally syndicated Court TV program Crier Today at 5:00 pm Eastern time on Tuesday, November 12. Check your local listings for details. November 14 CNN appearances At 10:30 am, Ms. Cornwell will make a live appearance on CNN's Live Today morning program. Later in the day, at 7:00 pm, she will appear on CNN's Headline News. December 13 appearance on The Learning Channel A BBC documentary, filmed in both the US and Great Britain, will be shown on The Learning Channel at 10:00 pm Eastern time. It will feature Ms. Cornwell's pursuit of the true identity of Jack the Ripper. check your local listings for details. Other upcoming events November 13, 11:00 am to 12:00 noon / New York Patricia Cornwell will appear on the Joan Hamburg Show live. She will also take call-in questions from listeners. November 14, 8:00 to 9:00 am / Atlanta Patricia Cornwell will appear on Fox's Good Day Atlanta (WAGA-TV), starting at 8:00 am. November 15, 12:00 to 1:00 pm / Atlanta Patricia Cornwell will make a live in-studio appearance on WZGC-FM's Out to Lunch program. November 15, 1:30 to 2:00 pm/ Atlanta Ms. Cornwell will participate in a Washington Post online chat. November 15 , 7:00 to 7:25 pm/ Atlanta Ms. Cornwell will make a live in-studio appearance on CNN/Headline News. November 15, 8:00 pm / Atlanta Ms. Cornwell will give a talk and sign copies of her latest book, Portrait of a Killer: Jack The Ripper�Case Closed at the Rialto Theater of Georgia State University. The theater is located at 80 Forsyth Street, NW in Atlanta. November 17, 11:00 am and 2:00 pm / Knoxville Ms. Cornwell will particpate in an 11:00 pre-signing book event at the Knoxville Convention Center. She will begin her talk at 2:00 pm. which will be followed by a question and answer session and book signing. NOTE: This is a ticketed event, fundraiser event for the Forensics Institute of the University of Tennessee. The Knoxville Convention Center is located at 701 Henley Street. November 18, 10:00 to 11:00 am /Washington, DC Ms. Cornwell will appear on the ABC Radio Network Radio Satellite Tour. November 18, 11:00 am to 12:00 pm/Washington, DC Ms. Cornwell will appear on public radio station WAMU-FM's Diane Rehm Show. November 18, 7:00 pm /Washington, DC Ms. Cornwell will give a talk, answer audience questions, and sign books for the Smithsonian / Resident Associates Program, at the Lisner Auditorium of Georgetown University. The auditorium is located at 730 21st Street, NW in Washington. November 21, 9:00-10:00 am, Ft. Worth Ms. Cornwell will make a live, in-studio appearance on ABC station WFAA-TV's program Good Morning Texas. November 21, 7:00 pm / Ft. Worth Ms. Cornwell will appear for an on-stage interview, question and answer session, and book signing at Bass Performance Hall, 525 Commerce Street. At the beginning of the program, the Mayor Kenneth Barr will present Ms. Cornwell with a key to the city and proclaim it "Patricia Cornwell Day." November 22, 8:00 to 9:00 am /St. Paul Ms. Cornwell will appear live on Fox station KMSP-TV's Good Day Minnesota. November 22, 11:15 am /St. Paul Ms. Cornwell will appear live on ABC station KSTP-TV's Midday News. November 22, 1:00 to 2:00 pm /St. Paul Ms. Cornwell will appear live on the Ruth Koscialek Show. Check your local listings to find out which of your local radio stations carries the show. December 4, 6:00 pm / Chicago Ms. Cornwell will offer a talk, question and answer session, and book signing at the Chicago Public Library branch at 400 S. State Street. December 10, 5:30 pm /Richmond A reception will followed by a talk by Ms. Cornwell, a question and answer session, and a book signing, at Virginia Crossings, 1000 Virginia Center Parkway.
Author: Spryder Tuesday, 12 November 2002 - 06:54 pm
I particularly like the November 21st event, where the mayor of Ft. Worth, Texas, gives Pat the key to the city, and proclaims that day to be "Patricia Cornwell Day"....
Author: judith stock Tuesday, 12 November 2002 - 07:44 pm
That's entirely appropriate, Stephen, as Fort Worth is also known as "Cow Town" for all the stockyards that were (and still are) there. And we all know what cows do best.....as my incredibly intelligent granddaughter says,"they make moo poo." "Nuff said! J
Author: Timsta Tuesday, 12 November 2002 - 07:44 pm
Oh, to be the Queen of Cowtown. Regards Timsta (Only good thing to come out of Ft Worth is I-35 West IMHO.)
Author: Timsta Tuesday, 12 November 2002 - 07:45 pm
Judith: LOL, great minds think alike ;) Regards Timsta