|
 |
 |
|
|
|
** This is an archived, static copy of the Casebook messages boards dating from 1998 to 2003. These threads cannot be replied to here. If you want to participate in our current forums please go to https://forum.casebook.org **
George Chapman / Severin Klosowski
Casebook Message Boards: Ripper Suspects: Ripper Suspects:
George Chapman / Severin Klosowski
Author: Neal Shelden
Thursday, 27 June 2002 - 10:56 am |        | British Library Newspaper Library
 |
Author: Neal Shelden
Thursday, 27 June 2002 - 11:42 am | | I was wondering if any of the posters would know as to whether the Picture of Severin Klosowski/George Chapman above is a new one?
The picture is from the Southwark and Bermondsey Recorder and South London Gazette of the Saturday 23rd November 1902. I'm sure that the picture of Maud Marsh is a new one because I don't remember seeing it before. But I've never seen Klosowski in light coloured trousers!
Another point of interest is that I have discovered that Severin Klosowski had a connection with GOULSTEN STREET in 1888. Klosowski's former employers Abraham and Ethel Radin ran a hairdressers shop in 1888 with a partner Abraham Kallin at 7 Aldgate High Street, near Mitre Square. (This was after they left West India Dock Road.) But they were almost definately living off the premisis at 55 Brunswick Buildings, Goulsten Street. They were living there for the birth of their son Isaac Radin on 29th July 1889, and were still there on the 1891 census.
Although, I do not personally consider Klosowski/Chapman to be a likely Ripper myself, he does appear to have a connection to Goulsten Street in the autumn of 1888. |
Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 27 June 2002 - 12:08 pm | | Hi, Neal:
I have seen that picture of Klosowski before. Thanks though for the picture of Maude Marsh, which is new to me, and also the information of the suspect's connection to Goulston Street.
All the best
Chris |
Author: Scott Nelson
Thursday, 27 June 2002 - 01:12 pm | | | No. 7 was on the north side of Aldgate-High Street, next to St. Botolph's Church. In 1888, a Willatt & Waltam had a restaurant there. In 1889, the hairdressers, Kallin & Radin were there until 1891, when another hairdresser, Karl Plunneke took over the premise. |
Author: Neal Shelden
Thursday, 27 June 2002 - 02:56 pm | | Thanks Chris,
I had seen a photograph of Klosowski seated in the same position wearing dark trousers, but I didn't know that this one was known aswell.
Scott,
I think it's the post office directory for 1889 that gives Kallin and Radin at 7 Aldgate High Street which would usually mean they were there in 1888. In the same way that according to the post office directory for 1893 Klosowski ran a hairdresser's at 209 Pentonville Road, Islington, but was probably there in late 1892 after his daughter was born.
Neal. |
Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 27 June 2002 - 03:27 pm | | Hi, Neal:
I suggest it is the same photograph of Klosowski, probably just with the one with the dark pants with his pants darkened for ease of reproduction. . . Or else the one with the dark pants is after he heard he was going to be hanged??? 
Chris |
Author: Neal Shelden
Thursday, 27 June 2002 - 04:17 pm | | That is probably right Chris.
For anyone interested:
As it is 100 years since the arrest of Klosowski, I thought that it might be of interest for the record to post the research that I did on his three victims Mary Isabella Spink, Bessie Taylor, and Maud Eliza Marsh, up until they met their killer.
MARY ISABELLA SPINK
Born: Mary Isabella Renton to William Renton (linen draper) and Ann Eliza (Smith)on 14 Aug 1858 at Lowtown, Pudsey, West Yorks. Parents married that year 1 Jan at St Peter's, Leeds.
They went to live in Leeds where another daughter Clara was born in 1861.
In 1862, Mary's Grandfather Albaney Renton died at Otley, and then her other Grandfather Joseph Smith died aged 60 on 21 Feb 1863 at 70 Briggate, Leeds. It was he who left £600 for Mary Isabella on her reaching 21 that would eventually be seized upon by Klosowski.
Her mother died aged 31 on 21 Jun 1868 just 3 days after a miscarriage, after having TB for 3 years, and her husband died aged 33 only 8 months later of the same illness. Apart from financial arrangements, William left Mary Isabella an oil painting of his father Albaney in his will. Both girls stayed with their Grandmother Mary Smith at Briggate. By the 1881 census, Mary was with a family connection William Crampton at Raglan Street.
Mary went to London to work at her uncle and aunt's pork butcher business in Leytonstone.
On 16 Dec 1883, a pregnant Mary Isabella married Shadrach Spink (b.1853 Norfolk)at St Dunstan's, Stepney. They lived at 2 King Street, and he was a railway porter. Their first son was called Shadrach Sayer Spink on 26 Apr 1884. They then lived for 4 years at 6 Forest Road, Leytonstone.
Spink left home when she became pregnant for a second time and took his first son with him. William Alfred Spink was born 8 Dec 1888, she then lived at Sydney Villas, Mornington Road, Leytonstone. By 1891, they were at 1 Mornington Road. She then met with Klosowski at Malvern Road.
A couple of years after his mother's death Willie Spink was put in Shoreditch Workhouse by Klosowski/Chapman on 22 March 1899. He left on 9 May for admission to the Hornchurch Cottage Homes, Essex. In 1903, he was discharged from Shoreditch Workhouse to Norfolk and a possible reunion with his father?
BESSIE TAYLOR
Born: as Bessey on 15 Jun 1861 to Thomas Parsonage Taylor and Betsy (Whitlow) at Dutton, Cheshire. Her parents had married at Stretton. He was a farmer of 96 acres. She had 3 brothers and 2 sisters.
By 1871, the family were living at Massey Brook Road, Lymm. In 1881, Thomas was a commision Agent and they lived at Holly Banks. In about 1888, his favourite daughter Bessie travelled to London and became a manageress in a restaurant.
Her family were at Hill Farm, Preston-on-the-Hill in 1891. In 1893, their daughter Mary Gertrude died at Newton. Bessie was working at Streatham and then lived in Peckham south of the Thames. She then met Klosowski/Chapman.
MAUD ELIZA MARSH
Born: 17 Feb 1883 to Robert Marsh and Eliza (Chandler) at 1 Park Place, Dering Road, Croydon. Her father was a groom from Suffolk. They married in Croydon in 1872 and had four other children besides Maud. They then lived at 48 Selsdon Road, then 48 Stanley Road in 1891. Her sister Louisa married in 1898 to Edward Parker Morris. Maud left home to work at the bar of the Duke of York public house, West Croydon. Then as a housemaid at Heather Court, Hazeldene Road, East Croydon.
In 1901, she advertised in the Morning Advertiser and met with her murderer Klosowski/Chapman
Neal. |
Author: Stewart P Evans
Friday, 28 June 2002 - 01:38 am | | Neal,
The pictures you reproduce above had been previously used in the Illustrated Mail of November 8, 1902, thus:
This image of Chapman was reproduced many times over subsequent years and was also reproduced as a drawing. It also appeared in the Trial of George Chapman edited by H.L. Adam, Edinburgh and London, William Hodge & Co., April 1930.
The answer to the mystery of the changing colour of the trousers lies in the fact that the lower part of this image of Chapman is not a photograph at all! It has been painted in by hand and you will see that his left arm and hand are out of proportion to the rest of the image. This enhancing was common practice in those days.
I hope that this helps.
Best Wishes,
Stewart |
Author: Stewart P Evans
Friday, 28 June 2002 - 01:41 am | | And this is the image as retouched and published in the Notable British Trials volume by H.L. Adam:
 |
Author: Neal Shelden
Friday, 28 June 2002 - 02:16 pm | | Stewart,
Thanks for clearing that matter up. I had seen the picture above but I wasn't certain as to whether it had been changed.
I also didn't know about Maud Marsh's picture in the Illustrated Mail, but I should have guessed as was usually the case that the local newspapers would take pictures from the nationals.
Thanks again Stewart.
Best wishes.
Neal |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Sunday, 30 June 2002 - 04:54 pm | | Not much to add regarding Chapman, though I'd
like to read a full study of his career. Chief
Inspector Arthur Neil [in his memoirs, MAN-HUNTER
OF SCOTLAND YARD (Garden City, New York: Sun Dial
Press, 1938)] writes a chapter about Chapman
(p. 1 - 16). He does mention a minor point, that
to me throws out the idea about poisoners only
sticking to one means of killing. When Chapman
was arrested in October 1902, Neil writes this:
"For a moment Chapman made no reply. His eyes went from one to another of them [the police]. He was armed - a loaded revolver was found in his pocket when he was searched at the station, and the thought of making a fight for
it probably flashed across his mind. But he must have thought better of it...."
I think that Chapman was quite capable of
killing with any available weapon if he found it
advantageous.
The other matter is that at some point in
1902 he may have given a drink of water to a street urchin, who claimed he got suspicious and
quietly spit it out. The urchin was the then
unknown Charlie Chaplin, who mentions the incident
in passing in his AUTOBIOGRAPHY.
Jeff |
Author: Christopher T George
Sunday, 30 June 2002 - 05:15 pm | | Hi, Jeff:
Thank you so much for adding the tidbits about Chapman being arrested with a loaded revolver in his pocket and the anecdote told by Charlie Chaplin of a boyhood encounter with the murderer.
The following photograph of Chapman with Bessie Taylor with an array of firearms behind him might also suggest that he fancied himself with firearms.
Chris
 |
Author: Elizabeth P. Cochran
Tuesday, 16 July 2002 - 01:59 pm | | Rats! A coupla months ago, I read a book purporting Chapman/Klos. was THE RIPPER. It was so convincing! Lots of good work. I'm currently looking for it. Where IS that book!! Must have loaned it out.
Anyway, I think this theory has legs and lots of them. |
Author: Christopher T George
Tuesday, 16 July 2002 - 04:06 pm | | Hi Elizabeth:
You probably mean the book on Chapman by R. Michael Gordon, Alias Jack the Ripper. Sorry to hear you have mislaid your copy. I hope you find it.
All the best
Chris |
Author: Elizabeth P. Cochran
Tuesday, 16 July 2002 - 06:04 pm | | YOU'VE read THAT BOOK? If you have, please let me know what you personally think of this theory.
That's all......
Betts |
Author: Christopher T George
Wednesday, 17 July 2002 - 06:18 am | | Hi, Betts:
No actually, I don't have Alias Jack the Ripper but from what I know of Mr. Gordon's theory, I am unimpressed by it. I think Jon Smyth remarked that Gordon's approach is a "pin the tail on the donkey" approach to Ripper studies... that the author was satisfied to say that if a murder occurred and Chapman was in the vicinity, Chapman must have done it. That is a poor and unpersuasive approach to trying to prove Chapman was the murderer. Gordon also used much of the information in the introduction to Hargrave Adams's The Trial of George Chapman, information that is known to be erroneous, e.g., he copied Adams's statement that Chapman lived in George Yard where Tabram was killed on 7 August 1888--he was not there at that time.
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: Christopher-Michael DiGrazia
Wednesday, 17 July 2002 - 09:37 am | | As you recall, CG, we reviewed Gordon's book in "Ripper Notes" (though, unfortunately, I do not recall the issue - it was fairly recent). As even Philip Sugden admits, Chapman is the best of a bad field, mainly because he can be placed in the area at the right time, though there is no convincing evidence against him. The problem with Gordon's book is that he uses both doctored and unsupported statements in order to buttress his case against Chapman, and thus simply cannot be believed when he presents previously unknown details of Chapman's career prior to 1888.
Gordon has now written a second book, "The Thames Torso Murders," available in the fall from McFarland & Co. In it, he expands on his previous suggestion that Chapman might have been responsible for the Torso killings and now definitively places them to Chapman's tally. We will review the book, but again, unless Mr Gordon's scholarship is more up to snuff than in "Alias," I'm afraid there will be nothing to recommend his new work.
CMD |
Author: Christopher T George
Wednesday, 17 July 2002 - 10:29 am | | Hi, CM:
It would seem that the torso book is written as a none too subtle further exploitation of the Chapman-as-Ripper yarn that Gordon purveyed in Alias Jack the Ripper. I am assuming that it will be merely a retread of much of the nonpersuasive information he hashed around in Alias. We should send the torso book to Larry Barbee who wrote the scathing review of the author's earlier book for Ripper Notes! 
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: ALAN SMITH
Tuesday, 06 August 2002 - 07:40 am | | | The only objection to Chapman's candidacy for being Jack which continually surfaces is the problem with his m.o. Surely as the poisoning victims were his wives, who would immediately be traced to him, he is unlikely to have mutilated and discarded their bodies as with the others.I am not saying that here endeth the mystery, but surely it is a simple explanation to the ripper/poisoner question. |
Author: Elizabeth P. Cochran
Saturday, 10 August 2002 - 12:20 pm | | Alan,
I think George "grew up" and changed his MO. He began to be what most demented people become - too sick to hide what he was doing in quite the same way as before. That's fairly standard for people growing up and older with a severe mental illness.
Look, the man was THERE. Sorry, but no self-respecting Thames police would ever discount that fact. He was so close to so many murders. He could have gotten away so easily, not to mention how simple it would be to explain blood on his clothes.
One of two reasons explains why the murders stopped. The guy died/in jail/asylum forever. Or, he left the area. OK, we all know about that man's time in the US.
We can go back through what the book traces, but it's not necessary.
The first child molester in the US had to start from somewhere. Did he start out grabbing, raping, and brutally killing a child to be discarded along some lonely road in dusty, dry, over-populated California? |
Author: R Court
Sunday, 11 August 2002 - 09:28 am | | Hi all,
Interesting about the pic with Bessie and Chapman is that the flags on the wall are upside-down. Did that have meaning or was it just whim?
I agree with many that Chapman doesn't necessarily have to be excluded on the basis of his MO and even Carrie Brown cannot be absolutely excluded from this man's life.
Chapman even purported to be jewish at some time (Graffito!)so we can assume that either he wasn't anti-semite or so cunning and indifferent, he could use all and everything to achieve his goals. These were indeed evident characteristics of the man, as well as his self-incriminating braggado.
Not having investigated the case, it escapes my knowledge if Chapman admitted each murder, or if he kept quiet to the sling. Interesting though, if he had had more time to live. Maybe he was hanged too quickly to confess...
..... I am Jack the-URGH!!.. Hmm..
Best regards
Bob |
Author: Wolf Vanderlinden
Sunday, 11 August 2002 - 05:52 pm | | Beyond the fact that sexual serial killers who mutilate their victims don't stop killing and then some nine years later start up again using poison as their new method of dispatching victims, victims now murdered for gain or because their killer was simply tired of them as in Chapman's apparent case, (As John Douglas has written, "It just doesn't happen that way in real life."), there are several other problems with the ‘Chapman as a viable suspect' theory.
The Ripper's increasingly aberrant behaviour would have been noticed by those around him as the Ripper murders increased in ferocity. Chapman lived in and worked in the East End until 1891 surrounded by friends and customers, starting a relationship which led to "marriage" with Lucy Baderski in 1889 yet no one noticed or commented on any difference in his demeanor.
If Chapman was the Ripper he would not wait nine years after the Kelly murder before he killed again. It may be convenient to point to the Carrie Brown murder in New York in April 1891 as further evidence that Chapman was Jack the Ripper but this "evidence" falls apart after even the most casual scrutiny. Chapman was still living in London in early April of 1891 and although this doesn't absolutely disqualify Chapman as Brown's murderer it does make it less likely. The description of the man who killed Brown does not fit in any way with Chapman and, most compellingly, the nature of the wounds suffered by Brown are not consistent with her being a Ripper victim.
Also the man who stalked and randomly killed women in Whitechapel with a knife in 1888 would not switch to forming relationships with his victims lasting years, (over three years in the case of Bessie Taylor), before killing them slowly with poison. Belief in this shows a lack of understanding of the psychological make up of the sexual serial killer.
Wolf. |
Author: R Court
Monday, 12 August 2002 - 04:28 am | | Hi Wolf,
Unfortunantly I have to disagree with much of what you write. The suggestion bandied about, even by Anderson and other contemporaries, that a SSK will increase in ferocity until his mind gives way is unproven assumption only. There are also many well-known cases where SSKs have lain dormant for some yearsbefore attacking again and indeed cases of different MOs. Look at the 'Yorkshire Ripper' case.
As Sugden points out, there is no evidence to suggest that this happend to Jack, mutilations seeming to rest more on the time available to him as on anything else. Kelly, for example, while he had little danger of being interuppted. Nichols and Stride were less or not mutilated because evidently Jack was disturbed by the carmen or Diemschutz.
If Chapman's visit to the USA had to do with the death of his son, he could well have been in the States on that date, and the description given of the man with Brown that evening? Foreign-looking, possibly German, with a thick flowing moustache... sounds like Chapman. Far from 'falling apart'.
I don't intend to imply that Chapman must be Jack, only that evidence cannot rule him out. As we don't know what sort of life Jack carried on, we can't even suppose that he just stalked women and had no relations with them otherwise. Indeed, I suspect he may well have been a 'Ladykiller' in more sense than one.
Best regards,
Bob |
Author: ALAN SMITH
Monday, 12 August 2002 - 06:51 am | | Please excuse my lack of knowledge on the suspect, but can anyone tell me about or advise the best source for finding out about Chapman's time in the US. What (if anything) links him to the "Brown Murder?"
Thanks all
Alan |
Author: R Court
Monday, 12 August 2002 - 11:11 am | | Hi Alan,
We know fairly accurately when he came back to England, the question is, when he went to America. No-one knows for sure.
Very little links him to the Carrie Brown murder, the attack was a sexual murder, she was found stripped from the waist down and stabbed and cut and some of the description given by a witness could describe him, at least as he looked later. If we consider him as Jack, though, her murder raises questions about him.
Best regards
Bob |
Author: Elizabeth P. Cochran
Monday, 12 August 2002 - 12:48 pm | | R....,
I'm in agreement. It never fails to surprise me so many people claiming to be interested in serial killers just don't do the research to see how much this guy fits the pattern.
So glad you posted. |
Author: Peter R.A. Birchwood
Monday, 12 August 2002 - 12:58 pm | | | As a matter of academic interest, a Seweryn Klosowski homesteaded 120 acres of land in Minnesota on the 25th July 1898. |
Author: Brenda L. Conklin
Monday, 12 August 2002 - 05:10 pm | | I don't think it is necessarily true either that a serial killer keeps on killing. I've been reading a book about a serial killer in Gainesville Florida, and it gives a lot of information as far as his state of mind. When he finally broke and decided to go on a "killing spree", he decided on 8 victims, one for
"each miserable year" he had spent in prison previously for burglary. Maybe Jack pre-selected the number of his victims in honor of some sort of life event of his. Of note is the this
"Gainesville Ripper", as he was called, was pretty much impotent and could only achieve orgasm through his ultraviolent fantasies. Once he killed, he finally felt he was a "real man." He felt powerless, however, to actually kill the people he was angry with, they had to be total strangers. The Gainesville Ripper also "ripped" at least one victim from pubic area to breast bone, and there was no indication he had ever studied anything about Jack the Ripper....indeed, he didn't seem too keen on learning at all. He could not hold a job for very long at all as he was "too emotional" and subject to outbursts. At one point he had a lot of money (stolen) and enjoyed treating certain women and their friends to expensive dinners and nights out...however, when the money ran low, the women's interest waned...this was the trigger that started his killing spree...feeling he'd been used and was no good to anyone unless he had money....now who does this sound like? Here I am in a Chapman thread and once again I end up back at my favorite suspects door....you guessed it, Joe Barnett. No matter which road I take I always end up back on this suspect's doorstep. However, just because one serial killer is a certain way doesn't mean they all have to follow the same patterns. |
Author: david rhea
Monday, 12 August 2002 - 07:50 pm | | | What is your opinion of R. Michael Gordon's book on the 'Thames Torso Murders of Victorian London'.Does his assessment of Chapman ring an area for serious study? |
Author: Jon
Monday, 12 August 2002 - 10:56 pm | | Andrei Chikatilo, who derived extreme sexual pleasure from what he was able to do to his victims and their body parts, also ceased for a period of time.
His own explanation for this dormant period was that his work environment changed and he began to recieve compliments and acceptance from his peers. He developed a sense of self worth and began feeling good about himself, and that was all it took for the murder & mutilations to cease.
The murders started up again when this period began to waine and the attitude of his peers towards him changed for the worse.
Regards, Jon
(who does not think Chapman was Jack either) |
Author: Richard P. Dewar
Tuesday, 13 August 2002 - 09:34 am | | Hi all,
What is odd to me about those that propound Chapman as the Whitechapel murderer is that they never seem to be able to cite on bit of evidence linking him to the crimes.
The Chapman proponents seem to have really only two arguments: that Chapman lived in the area, that he resembled witness accounts (though this is debatable since the witness accounts were contradictory), and that he was the type of person who would be the killer (this is highly debatable).
It seems to me that there were probably dozens of men, if not hundreds, who lived in Whitechapel at the time who fit this profile - we simply, for the most part, don't know their identity.
As with Maybrick, the view seems to be that the Whitechapel murderer was someone subsequently well known in the press for sinister reasons. I would submit that this is very rare, indeed.
Regards,
Rich |
Author: R Court
Tuesday, 13 August 2002 - 09:54 am | | Hi Rich,
The only real reasons for suspecting Chapman at all lie in the later multi-murder proven against him, his known callous, violent nature and other evidence that, while it doesn't prove, doesn't disprove either.
That means that the man can't be discluded from suspiction and indeed, unlike the many other men you refer to, there are grounds for including him. We remember that Chapman was a later suspect, only entering the JtR-stage after his arrest and trial. Had he not been caught, he would have never have been suspect............
Best regards
Bob |
Author: Jon
Tuesday, 13 August 2002 - 11:33 am | | But were not Chapman's motives purely for personal gain?. Not difficult to understand when viewing the murders of his wives but hard to compute when considering penniless prostitutes.
Regards, Jon |
Author: Wolf Vanderlinden
Tuesday, 13 August 2002 - 10:52 pm | | Rob, there may be cases of sexual serial killers laying dormant for years but are your examples murderers with the same psychopathology as the Ripper? In order for your examples to be appropriate you will have to stick to known sexual serial killers who murdered and mutilated their victims. This rare breed of serial killer, the ripper, slasher, can not be compared with other types.
Jon has correctly mentioned Chikatilo as an example and it should be noted that when Chikatilo started to kill again he did not change to domestic murder, which is basically what Chapman did, but continued to mutilate his victims.
I did not state that the Ripper's mind would have given away, merely that his behaviour would become noticeably aberrant. There is a difference.
There is absolutely no evidence that the killer was disturbed during the murder of Polly Nichols and Elizabeth Stride was not a Ripper victim, so that is of no concern. Can you supply some evidence that he was disturbed when he killed and mutilated Annie Chapman? Otherwise how can you explain the escalation of mutilation between Chapman and Eddowes? Surely he had less time, not more with Eddowes murder.
As for Mary Miniter's description of the man who rented room 31 with Carrie Brown, you have only supplied a partial description not the full description which exonerates Chapman.
"...a man about 32 to 35 years of age," Chapman was 26 years old in 1891.
"He was about 5 feet 8 ½ tall and slim in build," Chapman was described as "height; medium" on his Polish internal passport. This tells us nothing, as we don't know what the "medium" height of a Polish peasant was in 1886. Someone who knew him described him as "A weedy little man, not tall and handsome," take this as you will.
"He had a long sharp nose...," Photographs of Chapman do not show a long, sharp nose. Indeed his Polish internal passport states, "nose and mouth, medium,"
"a heavy blond moustache," Chapman had very dark brown or black hair. Again his Polish internal passport states, "hair, of a dark shade."
"I thought he was German," Chapman was Polish which might be confused with German if he actually looked German, which he did not. It is interesting to note that the clerk of the Glenmore Hotel who turned away a bloodstained man on the night of the murder of Carrie Brown and who offered a description which seems to closely match Miniter's, also stated that he thought that the man was German. I take it that the man was probably German enough to convince two separate witnesses.
Wolf. |
Author: R Court
Wednesday, 14 August 2002 - 04:01 am | | Hi Wolf,
I don't disagree with much of what you write, but to claim for example that there is no proof that Polly's murderer was disturbed is answerable by saying that there is no proof that he wasn't. The same for Stride. There is no viable evidence that she wasn't Jack's victim (and precious little that she was). We can't just dismiss him for any victims, including Martha.
Chapman's appearance is well documented, as we know. As Mary Miniter gave testimony she also claimed that the man seemed to want to keep out of the limelight and evidently didn't want to be recognised. No wonder if he was intending murder. If that was true, the description of him rings like curious George's over the companion of Kelly, too good to be true.
To estimate age in a stranger is difficult at the best of times, if wearing his flowing moustache at the time he would probably seemed older. I would call his nose 'pointed' from the photos I have seen and I would not be so pedantic as to estimate someone as being 5 feet 8 and a half....
The description by Miniter does nothing at all to exonerate him, unfortunantly. Even at the best of times, witness testimony is unreliable and can only be used as background detail, as special tests have proved time and time again. To take her every word as absolute fact and claim that this or that must therefore be true is just not viable.
There is no suggestion that Jack was disturbed with Annie Chapman, and not with Eddowes or Kelly. He may well have been with Nichols and with Stride (assuming he was her killer). There are possible indications of that, when no more. For Polly, for example, the TOD was fairly easily determined from the body warmth and the still flowing blood and can only have been a very short time before she was found by the carmen.
Last of all, I live in Germany myself and have often vistors from MOE. Neither they nor I can tell a German (or a Brit) from, say, a Dutchman or a Pole just by looking at him especially in half-dark. Why it should have been different in those days escapes me.
Best regards,
Bob |
Author: R Court
Wednesday, 14 August 2002 - 04:08 am | | Hi Jon,
Oops, sorry. I didn't mean to ignore you.
Do we know why Chapman killed his 'wives'? To callously murder someone just because you've got a bit bored by them is being a little extreme in my mind.
I don't know what other gains Chapman mit have had, none of the women married him so he had no estate claims and if he just wanted another woman, why didn't he just chuck the others out? He could without problem. The man seemed to be much more than an overt domestic poisiner.
Best regards,
Bob |
Author: Christopher T George
Tuesday, 26 November 2002 - 03:18 pm | | A Close Musical Shave
I slide into Mr. Chapman's black leather barber chair
and Mrs. lathers my chin and neck. Grinning behind
handlebar mustache, he strops his razor, shaves me
in long strokes, the blade tickling my neck and jaw bones,
as Mrs. plays a Lizst polka, stroking the piano keys.
He informs me he's an American, and he sports
the Stars and Stripes above the mantle, upside down,
with the Royal Navy ensign similarly displayed,
but his accent is distinctly Eastern European.
I learn later that he'd been a feldscher in Poland,
a barber-surgeon, as his papers proved,
under the name of Klosowski. My cheerful barber,
with his intimate knowledge of poisons, tartar emetic
and antimony, and his ladies: Mrs. beaming from the piano.
He slaps aftershave on my pristine shaved cheeks,
the pungent aroma assaults my nostrils. I hand him
a shilling, reclaim my cane. I bid good day to the barber
who'd hang for lacing the tea of his musical accompanist.
Christopher T. George |
Author: Brenda L. Conklin
Wednesday, 27 November 2002 - 07:19 am | | | Chapman strikes me as the type who is neat, clean, thorough. Like the kind who wouldn't want to get his hands dirty, not when poison is so much neater. Mean as hell, yes, but the Ripper...ummm, I don't think so. I wonder what it was that made Abberline think it could be him?????? |
Author: Christopher T George
Wednesday, 27 November 2002 - 12:45 pm | | Hi, Brenda:
I think what made Abberline think Chapman could have been the Ripper was probably that he was a East End serial killer and that he was a cold, callous individual much as the Ripper must have been. Clearly the M.O. was different. We have no reason to think that Abberline had inside information that Chapman may have been the killer--the Inspector had been retired for some years from Scotland Yard when he made his remarks about Chapman in 1903.
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: Stan Russo
Thursday, 28 November 2002 - 12:13 pm | | To all,
Caution should be used when investigating George Chapman. Donald McCormick has weaved Chapman intO his tale of Vassily Konovalov as 'JTR'. McCormick uses Chapman, Abberline, Ostrog, the writer William Le Queux, Dr. Pedachenko, Walter Sickert, Rasputin, and Dr. Thomas Dutton to weave his extraordinary tale. The material relating to George Chapman from this tale has been proved as incorrect. We must wonder how much else of McCormick's stories are based on lies.
STAN |
|
|
|
|
