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** This is an archived, static copy of the Casebook messages boards dating from 1998 to 2003. These threads cannot be replied to here. If you want to participate in our current forums please go to https://forum.casebook.org **
Archive through 17 April 2002
Casebook Message Boards: Ripper Suspects: General Discussion :
Arbie La Bruckman aka "Frenchy" aka John Francis:
Archive through 17 April 2002
Author: Diana
Friday, 03 November 2000 - 09:24 pm |        | | I just got my latest issue of Ripperana. They've found a new/old suspect. Old because the NYPD suspected him in 1891. New because this is the first I've heard of him. I had read about the murder in New York City of "Old Shakespeare", a prostitute and that the MO was very similar to Jack's, but I was doubtful because of the distance. Enter Arbie. Arbie worked a cattle boat. (Maybe the Queen was right!) The cattle boat went back and forth between London and New York. Arbie enjoyed torturing the cattle. Arbie was ID'd by a witness who saw him going into a flophouse room with Old Shakespeare. He was not caught because of politics. Kudos to Michael Conlon who has researched all this. Conlon has not nailed it down yet but there are hints that La Bruckman was arrested by the London police in 1890 on suspicion of being the Ripper and then released. Good Ol' Arb was Moroccan. I guess that would make him look like a "foriegner". Born 1862, which would make our boy 26 when the Ripper slayings happened. I couldn't create a conversation under contemporary suspects so I put this here. |
Author: Diana
Thursday, 09 November 2000 - 08:33 pm | | | If it was ALB several things would be explained. His native tongue was French. He easily could have written Juives in the GSG. He also might have captured the interest of MJK because she claimed to have spent time in Paris. JTR was sighted wearing a sailor's cap on at least one occasion. A cattle boat on the Thames would make a good hideout. The sailing of the boat would explain the long hiatus between MJK and later non-canonical victims. His work on the cattle boat would have made him an experienced killer and a semiskilled butcher but not as anatomically astute as a doctor. Being Moroccan would cause him to fit the description of a foreigner. |
Author: Diana
Saturday, 16 December 2000 - 04:51 pm | | Psychology Right -- He tortured animals ala Dahmer.
Language Right -- He was Moroccan and spoke French -- thus Juives in the GSG.
Appearance Right -- Witnesses said he looked foriegn. He was Moroccan.
Explains Sudden Cessation -- His ship presumably sailed.
Expertise Right -- As a worker on a cattle boat he would know how to kill and would be a semiskilled butcher.
Age Right -- was in his twenties
Clothing Right -- JTR was seen in various attire on different occasions but sometimes it was a sailor hat. |
Author: Diana
Tuesday, 19 December 2000 - 08:02 am | | | As a Moroccan ALB would have been Islamic. Within that culture the feminine face is considered so provocative that women are veiled. JTR's last two canonical victims had their faces mutilated. |
Author: Anthony Green
Sunday, 25 February 2001 - 11:14 am | | Dear Diana,
Arbie La Bruckman, arrested in New Jersey, may be one of the most interesting new/old suspects to emerge. At least he seems very likely to have killed Carrie Brown, and his earlier arrest as the Whitechapel Murderer is therefore telling.
I would, however, like to point out:
1. That he is reported to have said that he was born in Morocco, not that he was a Moroccan. The name doesn´t seem Arabic, and the witness Mary Miniter is sometimes alleged to have thought that the man who entered the East River Hotel with Carrie Brown was German.
2. The reported "life-story" of ALB is a press report of what ALB himself claimed. It may well be untrue or only selectively true as a result not only of the sensationalising and misunderstanding of the reporter, but also the deliberate misinformation of the informant. It seems unlikely, for example, that ALB was actually "placed on trial" for a murder in Whitechapel.
3. The connexion with New York and New Jersey seems somewhat suggestive. Take a look at the 1891 picture of Arbie La Bruckman alias John Francis reproduced in Ripperana 34 (Oct. 2000) p. 29 and the famous photograph of Severin Klosowski alias George Chapman taken around 1900 (e.g., in R.M. Gordon, Alias Jack the Ripper [Jefferson/London 2001] p. 258). Is there not a striking resemblance?
Only a thought.
Tony |
Author: Jack D. Killian
Sunday, 25 February 2001 - 09:39 pm | | If my history knowledge serves me correctly, there is a French connection in regards to Morocco. Was not Morocco a French colony at one time? La Bruckman sounds French in origin.
ALB seems worth looking into.
Does anyone know how tall was he?
JDK |
Author: Martin Fido
Monday, 26 February 2001 - 08:56 am | | The French effort to spread their influence from Algeria to Morocco was unsuccessful until 1904, when Britain recognized French unofficial supremacy there in return for a similar grant of de facto power in Egypt. From 1912 to 1953, Morocco was officially a French protectorate.
Martin Fido |
Author: Michael Conlon
Saturday, 08 September 2001 - 09:33 pm | | What a pleasant surprise to find a site devoted to my suspect discovery! Here's an update on what I've uncovered since my article on La Bruckman appeared in Ripperana:
1)I've found two more contemporaneous N.Y. newspaper stories which affirm that La Bruckman was arrested in London on suspicion of being JTR, but they make no mention of any trial. Instead, they state that he was arrested and held for several weeks on suspicion before eventually being let go. Obviously, this seems a more credible scenario since any trial involving a Ripper suspect would most certainly have been heavily reported in the press. It seems likely that La Bruckman confused his arrest, long interrogation and subsequent discharge with a 'trial' in which he was acquitted. Perhaps there is plausibility in La Bruckman's claim that he received monetary compensation from officials after so long a confinement on suspicion. The fact that he was an American citizen would no doubt have added to the complexity and delicacy of the case.
2) La Bruckman possessed several aliases, at least two of which were "John Frenchy" and "John Francis". It is very interesting that the man who was falsely convicted of Carrie Brown's murder, Ameer Ben Ali (Frenchy No.1), was known to use the aliases "George Frenchy" and "George Francis". While these two men may not have been biological cousins, as first reported, they seem suspiciously linked somehow.
It is worth mentioning that Inspector Byrnes claimed that he had learned that Ali had been present in London during the Ripper murders. Given Byrnes' questionable probity, this claim may merely be self-serving on Byrnes' part, insinuating that he may have gotten the Ripper after all in the person of Ali. It does, however, raise interesting possibilities in terms of La Bruckman and Ali working as a pair, and just might
(this,I know, is a bit of a speculative stretch) throw some light on why, at one point, officials believed that JTR may have had an accomplice. In The JTR A-Z, the problematical Matthew Packer is stated to have "...claimed that a man buying rabbits told him that the Ripper was his cousin in America. The Illustrated Police News believed that the police took this story seriously enough to have Inspector Abberline take the details from Packer." While this is intriguing, obviously not too much can be made of this as regards Ali and La Bruckman.
3) The New York police attached great importance to an incident that occurred in the early hours of the morning following Brown's murder. At the Glenmore Hotel in Chatham Square, not far from the murder site, a man came in at some time after 2 A.M. seeking a room. He was greatly agitated and had blood on his face and coat sleeves. He spoke with an accent and closely fit La Bruckman's description. After being refused a room by the frightened clerk, he requested the use of a bathroom in order to wash up. This too was refused and he left.
It was later learned that La Bruckman had frequently stayed at the Glenmore and police believed he was probably the bloodstained man seen. La Bruckman was indeed reported to have spoken with an accent and, oddly enough, some people who knew him believed the Moroccan to be Alsacian. This has relevence in regard to reports stating that Brown's killer had an accent that may have been German. The N.Y. World reported that:"Shortly after (La Bruckman) left the Glenmore,the attaches learned that 'Frenchy' had been arrested in London in connection with the Whitechapel murders." Who these 'attaches' were and how they learned this is not explained in the article.
4) It was discovered by the press and police that La Bruckman, when not working as a cattleboat slaughterman, worked in abatoirs and slaughterhouses close to ports. La Bruckman had no fixed abode and stayed in cheap hotels and lodging houses in whatever port he happened to be in.
5) Finally, and most importantly of all, I obtained a copy of Lloyd's ship registry for the National Line (the firm for which La Bruckman worked), and have ascertained, through the New York Times shipping reports, that National Line cattleboats were in port during all of the JTR murders!
So far, so good. La Bruckman is still looking quite viable to me. I've been away from all this research for a while but hope to get back at it soon. I'll provide updates if anything significant turns up.
Thanks for your interest
Michael Conlon |
Author: Tom Wescott
Sunday, 09 September 2001 - 12:26 am | | Michael,
I only own one issue of 'Ripperana' and it happens to be the one in which your article appears. It is a VERY good article. I'm looking forward to your impending book. Might I suggest that you email that article to webmaster Stephen P. Ryder for inclusion on the Casebook's dissertations page? I'm sure many others would be very interested. Keep up the great work!
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Author: Michael Conlon
Sunday, 09 September 2001 - 03:05 pm | | Dear Tom,
Many thanks for your kind words and helpful suggestion. I am a complete neophyte in the world of computers and the previous message I posted is my first foray into this arcane realm. Once I figure out how to master the art of E-mail, I will certainly implement your kind suggestion.
Best Regards,
Mike Conlon |
Author: Tom Wescott
Sunday, 09 September 2001 - 11:28 pm | | Mike,
Welcome to the wide web! It will be nice to have you on the Casebook. You'll find many interesting people posting here, including Paul Begg, CM Digrazia and Chris George (editors of Ripper Notes), Ivor Edwards (JTR's Black Magic Rituals), webmaster Stephen P. Ryder and his woman, Alegria, Martin Fido, Caroline 'Caz' Morris, Dave Yost, The Viper, Wolf Vanderlinden, a weirdo named Ed Carter, as well as a host of others.
I'm sure you'll master the art of email and the web in no time. Have fun looking over the Casebook! 
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Author: Michael Conlon
Wednesday, 12 September 2001 - 07:47 pm | | I am in august company! Thanks for the welcome,Tom.
Mike |
Author: Jon
Thursday, 13 September 2001 - 12:13 am | | Hi Michael
Did anyone inform you of the initiation requirements to provide a 5000 word essay exploring the psychological aspect of an epistemilogical thesis concerning the Ripperological Cabal ?
Due in 12 hrs.....
|
Author: Michael Conlon
Thursday, 13 September 2001 - 04:25 pm | | Jon,
coincidentally enough, that was an optional essay question on the final exam for my 'Heidegger & Homicide' course back in college. I'll try to dig it up.
Mike |
Author: Stephen P. Ryder
Tuesday, 02 October 2001 - 12:12 pm | | Just a note that Michael Conlon's article on Arbie La Bruckman, A Tale of Two Frenchy's is now available on the Casebook at:
http://casebook.org/dissertations/dst-frenchys.html |
Author: Kevin Braun
Tuesday, 02 October 2001 - 01:28 pm | | Steven,
Mr. Conlon has, in my opinion, uncovered a good suspect. It will be interesting to see if he can come up with any more information. Thanks for the essay!
Take care,
Kevin |
Author: Michael Conlon
Tuesday, 02 October 2001 - 06:58 pm | | Dear Kevin Braun,
thanks for the encouraging words. Characteristic of my ass-backwards approach to most things in life, I posted an update on this article before actually posting the article in the "dissertations" section (the article originally appeared in "Ripperana No.34,Oct.2000).
You can find this update posted for Sept.8,if you'll just scroll back a bit under this heading,"Arbie La Bruckman,etc."
Thanks,
Mike Conlon |
Author: Diana
Friday, 12 April 2002 - 09:38 pm | | | Mr. Conlon -- It's great to have you on these boards. I really liked your theory when I read it in Ripperana and that is why I started this thread. ALB really seems to fit everything we've deduced. I just wish he wasn't an American!! |
Author: Michael Conlon
Saturday, 13 April 2002 - 12:46 am | | Hi Diana,
Many thanks, indeed, for your kind words (and for starting this thread). I was quite pleasantly surprised to find it when I stumbled upon the Casebook last year.
I don't know if you're aware, but Paul Begg kindly invited me to contribute an updated article to his outstanding publication, "Ripperologist", in the December 2001 edition. The article, "The Ripper In America", can be found in the Dissertations section of the Casebook. There's some new stuff in it, most importantly, the discovery that Mary Miniter named La Bruckman as the man she had seen accompanying Carrie Brown to her room on the fatal night, and that cattle boats from the shipping firm for which La Bruckman worked were in port in London during each of the Ripper killings!
I'm researching (when I find the time) some more info. on La Bruckman, and he continues to look very promising (I'm following a lead that he may have spent some time in Jamaica , where there were Ripper-like murders).
There's been a lot of talk about 'profiling' the Ripper, and La Bruckman fits many of the salient features (something you pointed out earlier on this thread): He was in the 26-30 year range during the killings, he tortured animals, he was known to be physically powerful, he possessed a job (slaughterman) whereby he could obtain morbid fulfillment, he was reported to have had a scar on his face, he was reported to have been a habitual abuser of prostitutes, he was reported to have been financially supporting a mother and sister with no other male figure present in the family...not to mention that he was arrested and held in London on suspicion of being JTR and was later arrested in New York as the prime suspect in the murder of "Old Shakespeare"!
Anyway, thanks ,again, for your interest and encouraging words.
Best regards,
Mike |
Author: Diana
Saturday, 13 April 2002 - 07:33 am | | | Mr. Conlon, I'm going to say this because I think you are going to be a valuable contributor to these boards. Most of us are nice people who like chewing over this case, but then there is the rude squad. A lot of new posters have been scared off these boards because of them. I hope you're not so I want to warn you before it happens. There are a few individuals with huge egos and low self-esteem (no, that is not a contradiction) who delight in being insulting. They don't want to debate ideas. They want to slam people. I suggest that when it happens you ignore them. What they want to do is arouse your defense mechanisms so that you get into an argument. These arguments always generate a lot of heat and very little light. The worst thing that would happen would be if you left the boards. It has happened before and I hope it doesn't happen with you. |
Author: Vila
Saturday, 13 April 2002 - 10:19 am | | Mike,
Your theory has its interesting points. I'll have to read your article. Or re-read it, if you're speaking of one that's been in the casebook for a while. I haven't looked at the Dissertations page in months. Shame on me, I know.
I'd also like to second Dianna's cautionary note, as is true in any online discussion group, a thick skin is a Darwinian necessity for a poster. I've been involved with the Casebook website off and on since it was a few months old. The ratio of rude people to polite people has always been very low for this group, so the exemplary minds to correspond with far outnumber the few you'll soon learn to scroll past. This is a normal thing for any Message Board.
Think of it as evolution in action. Without these predators, would our minds be as sharp? LOL!
Vila |
Author: Michael Conlon
Saturday, 13 April 2002 - 01:38 pm | | Hi, and thanks, Diana and Vila,
I am grateful for your kind and cautionary words, and i have already received several emails from other posters advising me to ignore the provocations of certain persons. Your advice and theirs strikes me as eminently sensible. I will be on guard to suppress my innate Irish pugnacity and 'play nice'.
Thank you both for your interest in La Bruckman. I'm sure there's much more to be found out about him, and when I'm a little less busy with quotidian pursuits, I hope to get back on the trail.
Best regards,
Mike |
Author: Michael Conlon
Saturday, 13 April 2002 - 01:42 pm | | Oh, and Diana,
Please call me Mike. Having recently turned 40, I feel old enough without becoming "Mr. Conlon" (who is my father and will, thank God, always be older than me!).
Best regards,
Mike |
Author: Vila
Sunday, 14 April 2002 - 07:11 pm | | Mike,
Just read two of your pieces in the Dissertations section, as well as the entry by Larry B. Very good work. I think you have some quite good points in your argument. I hope that there are further records of the cattleboats that you can find to track Frenchy #2's voyage dates in more detail. I wonder if he can be linked to any of the other ripper-like murders in the Americas?
Oh dear, I just had a vision of a map marked with the possible trails of Tumbelty, Kelly, Frenchy, and a couple of nameless other serial killers criss-crossing the Americas. Chilling.
Vila |
Author: Michael Conlon
Sunday, 14 April 2002 - 08:06 pm | | Hi, Vila,
I'm very appreciative of you taking the time to read my articles, and very flattered by your complimentary words.
I'm still trying (when I get the time) to track down the kind of records you've mentioned, and I too have wondered if La Brucman's travels may correspond to other locations where Ripper-loke killings were reported to have occurred. The chilling notion that the Ripper may have been a sailor and killed elsewhere has certainly been around since the murders were first being investigated. La Bruckman is exciting because at last it is possible to name such a sailor who was not only present in London and New York during Ripper murders, but was arrested on suspicion of being the Ripper in both instances!
Best regards,
Mike |
Author: Scott E. Medine
Monday, 15 April 2002 - 09:29 am | | If it is alright I am posting this message in two threads , the Cleanup thread and the Arbie LaBruckman thread. We have seemed to lost sight of the point I made. The fact is that while working fast in low light the killer would have gotten blood and other bodily fluids on him. There is no way around it. He would not have washed himself at a public tap or sink. He is far to ritualized for that. He would have had to use a private facility. He would have laundry to clean and it would have to be cleaned either by him in private or by someone in which he has deep trust. For instance, this would be backed by Mr. Conlon’s theory of LaBruckman on the cattle ship.
Because of these facts, the killer would have had a steady job and would be sharing the his living quarters with someone he deeply trusted. I also think the killer was a sadist due to his using the knife. If we listen to Douglas et al we would have to think he was not because the victims were not tortured before death. But in the BDSM community there is a faction that finds edge play, death scenarios, and knife play erotic. These practitioners will tell you it is not the physical torture and pain but the emotional and mental aspect that is so erotic. For the submissives it is knowing that they have no safe words and they are putting their lives completely in the hands of someone else. For the doms/dommes it is the thrill of the possibility of actually taking another person’s life and in some cases the drawing of blood. It is also fact that some closet BDSM practitioners will in fact fo to prostitutes to live out their fantasies because they know or feel their significant others will not take part in the role playing. It is also interesting that studies have shown that of all the BDSM practitioners it is those that experiment with edge play and in particular those that seek erotic release with knives are the ones that cross the line between reality and fantasy. When these people cross the line it is usually done with either prostitutes or people they abduct because once again their significant others naturally won’t let them cross that line with them.
I also find it interesting that Conlon’s suspect is French. The Marquis De Sade used his wife to help procure his playmates in his later escapades, especially his last affair with the children (teenagers but still children). Sade also threatened a prostitute with a knife threatening to cut her throat. I have only recently begun reading his writings and find it interesting that is relates to the killings in some manners, of course this can all be coincidental. I know that the Marquis’ writings were banned but were available in the underground markets in Victorian England and France. More interestingly in a conversation I had with Neil Schaffer, a professor of 19th Century French Literature at Columbia, Dr. Schaffer stated that the banned text were more easily found in England and at a far cheaper price than in France.
Peace,
Scott |
Author: Peter R.A. Birchwood
Monday, 15 April 2002 - 12:39 pm | | | Regarding Arbie La Bruckman aka John Francis, a man named John Frenchy Francis arrived at Ellis Island January 30th 1895 on the State of Nebraska from Glasgow and Moville. He was aged 37 and a US citizen. There are problems in accessing further information from the ship list which may be sorted out in a few days. |
Author: Michael Conlon
Monday, 15 April 2002 - 02:37 pm | | Hello Scott and Mr. Birchwood,
Scott, thanks for your always incisive observations. La Bruckman's surname is apparently French, but he was born in (French) Morocco and we can't be certain (yet) of his ethnic identity.
On an earlier post on this thread (April 13, 12:46) I enumerated some points about La Bruckman that correspond to what profilers would generally expect to find in a SK. I wonder if you agree or have any insights?
Mr. Birchwood, from what I have so far been able to learn, La Bruckman came to New York from Morocco when he was approximately 8 years old, sometime around 1870. I hope this helps.
Best regards,
Mike |
Author: Scott E. Medine
Monday, 15 April 2002 - 04:28 pm | | Michael,
When I first started taking a more than healthy interest in the case, I initially relied on the profile written by John Douglas. As a former student of Quantico, I leaned in favor of the profile. Now, after looking at the forensic evidence that is present in the records relating to the individual crime scenes, I am leaning in the opposite direction on a lot of points of the profile.
Besides from the normal, bed wetting, animal killing, abusive house hold etc...... etc........ here is my honest opinion. Let me know if your man fits.
1. He was 28-30 years old.
2. He was a foreigner with a dark beard or facial hair and dark hair. He would have been of either Arabic or Greek descent. This does not mean he would have gone by an Arabic or Greek name.
3. He was educated.
4. He served in the military.
5. He had anatomical knowledge but no medical knowledge.
6. He knew Eddowes and Kelly. However, this does not mean that Eddowes and Kelly knew each other.
7. He read the writings of the Marquis De Sade or heard stories of him or his writings orally.
8. He was a sadist.
9. He was either married or lived with a close relative who knew him and may have helped him in certain aspects of the crime, but did not participate in neither the killings nor the mutilations.
10. He was employed full time and regularly.
11. He may have a scar(s) on his body from a fight(s) involving knives. One of which would have been on his face. It would not have been big and hideous but enough to disturb the growth of facial hair. He would have self inflicted cuts on his body. His back may have been scarred from lashings that were self inflicted or inflicted by another man. He liked giving and taking anal sex. He was not homosexual but he would have shown the signs of having received anal sex. He was a pedofile.
12. He either lived in or worked in the Whitechapel area. If he worked there, then it was his relative who lived there.
13. He owned a pair of gloves and a dark full length over coat. He wore a scarf or tie and shirts with a collar.
14. The number 38 had a particular meaning to him.
15. He was compulsively clean, neat and orderly.
16. He was a control freak and a person with some authority in his position at work. He loved to micro-manage.
17. He was physically strong. His hands were heavily calloused and large, his fingernails were closely cropped. He was able to engage in conversation. He was unassuming and pleasant to be around in public.
18. He had copies of the newspaper articles concerning the case. He may have become friendly with one or several of the beat officers. He would have spoke with them freely concerning investigation into the killings.
19. He would have been 6 inches taller than the height at which the top line of the of the Goulston St. Graffiti was written.
20. All five canonical victims are his along with Martha Tabram and John Gill.
21. He was not addicted to any narcotics nor was he an alcoholic.
22. He always had a large amount of money on his person.
Peace,
Scott |
Author: maria giordano
Monday, 15 April 2002 - 05:47 pm | | Michael,
I read your dissertation last week and was very impressed by it.
I've been trying to find more about the murders in Jamaica and Managua that are said to resemble JTR's and hope you can, when you get the chance, share whatever you now about them.
Frenchy 2 seems to me to be the most interesting new suspect in a long time. Thanks!
Maria |
Author: Michael Conlon
Monday, 15 April 2002 - 07:45 pm | | Hi Scott and Maria,
Scott, I saw your precis for JTR's traits in the "profiling Jack the Ripper" thread first, so I addressed it in that forum. Very interesting! A lot of it lines up quite nicely with what is known of La Bruckman (but what's the deal with the number '38'?) It's always a pleasure getting your professional take on these crimes!
Maria, many thanks for the kind words. I agree with you that the Jamaica and Nicaragua killings are an intriguing and under-researched aspect of the quest for JTR. There's got to be more stuff out there, somewhere. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find much yet. I have found a story about an unknown sailor who, shortly after the killing of Carrie Brown, took a ship to Jamaica where he was alleged to have made some very interesting claims about the Ripper crimes. Anyway, I'll keep looking and let you know what turns up.
Best regards,
Mike |
Author: Scott E. Medine
Tuesday, 16 April 2002 - 09:19 am | | Hi Mike,
Every serial killer works in a pattern. This pattern is only known to him. It only makes sense to him. It is his world and we just inhabit it and take up space in it. The more organized the killer the more organized the pattern. I set out to find that pattern.
I, like a lot of people, immediately took notice of the killings happening only on weekends or holidays. This of course could mean the killer had a steady job. I discounted this as a possible pattern. The killer was far to organized for this to be his pattern. It could be but there was a reason why these particular weekends and holidays were picked. I based that theory on the evidence showing the killer knew Whitechapel, he personally knew Kate Eddowes and Mary Kelly. So why did he pick these particular days out of 362?
So I looked at the numbering sequence.
Tabram ................ 7
Nichols................. 31
Chapman ............. 8
Stride and
Eddowes ............. 30
Kelly.................... 9
After looking at the dates a two sequences began to appear.
7-8-9
31-30
One set in ascending order the second set in descending order. I then noticed that one killing would happen near the beginning of the month and another near the end of the month. Maybe these were paydays? Any policeman (at least in the U.S.) Will tell you all the local street pharmacist are open for business on the 1st and 15th of each month due to government checks arriving on those days. Maybe the killer needed to satisfy his cravings and lust?
Then I noticed if you paired the dates up...........
7
31
8
30
The two added up to 38.
Problem. Where is the matching date for 9 November 1888?
Logically the matching date would be the 29th. The only date in 1888 where the 29th fell on a weekend or holiday AFTER the Kelly murder was 29 December 1888. I theorized there was a murder there or an attempted murder on that date. I then came to the board. Under the “Help Wanted” thread I asked if anyone knew of any murders occurring on 29 December 1888. Graziano replied that a small boy was found butchered in Bradford. I was then told by another poster that the murder was briefly covered in Evans and Skinner’s new book concerning the Ripper letters. I went to Barnes and Noble and immediately looked at the book and VOILA! There it was. I then bought the book. An unsolicited e-mail from Mr. Evans then arrived with a copy of the Bradford Observer article covering the murder. I then contacted Carol Greenwood in the Bradford Library and she did a little research on the murder and forwarded me the copies of the subsequent news paper articles. The victim, John Gill, 8 year old boy was found murdered. His body was found next to a manure pile in a stable. His abdomen was ripped from the chest to his pubic area. His heart was removed and placed on his chin. His right ear was missing. Certain (undisclosed except for his kidney and his penis) parts of his viscera were missing. His legs were hacked off and tied to the side of his head. He showed signs of strangulation and death came from a 2" wide slash on his throat that went ear to ear to almost complete decapitation. This is the missing murder. There is more, it is covered in my book though.
The sequence was complete.
7-31
8-30
9-29
all three pairs add up to 38.
I quickly checked October 1888. No weekend dates fell on the 8th, 9th , 30th or the 29th .
Peace,
Scott |
Author: Michael Conlon
Tuesday, 16 April 2002 - 04:26 pm | | Scott,
Fascinating inductive reasoning. Are you saying that the date sequences were merely a reflection of pay-days, or do you think the ascending and descending date sequences are part of a conscious pattern on the killer's part, reflecting some formalistic intention? If so, what empirical evidence do we have supporting such patterns in SKs?
Best regards,
Mike |
Author: Scott E. Medine
Tuesday, 16 April 2002 - 05:17 pm | | Mike,
If the killer turns out to be your man La Bruckman then the pattern may be just coincidence. Even if La Bruckman is not the killer the pattern may be coincidental.
But it is a mighty big coincidence. This type of circumstantial evidence today could give police probable cause for a search warrant. (At least in the US). Depending on the judge and the jurisdiction and the rest of the PC dictated it may be enough for an arrest warrant. Conviction in US courts? I would not place my money on it.
It may be just the killer's paydays. It could be other reasons. I think it bears looking into though. Naturally following this pattern the next set of murders would have occurred on the 10th and the 28th. In 1889, the 10th fell on the second Sunday in February and the second Sunday in March. The 28th was the last Sunday in April.
The only way I think LaBruckman could fit this pattern is if his victims in the other ports somehow had the number 38 involved. The age of the vitim, the victim's address etc...
As I said this pattern may be nothing but coincidence. But I think the rest of the profile fits like a tailored suit.
Peace,
Scott |
Author: Scott E. Medine
Tuesday, 16 April 2002 - 05:25 pm | | Mike,
I realized I failed to answer part of your question. Serial Killers do set patterns. The patterns may be in the positioning of the bodies, the location of the bodies, the dates of the murder. ETC. Logically the more organized the killer the more organized his pattern. You can even see the code that the Zodiac killer used as a pattern. The pattern will usually be found in the signature of the killer. As far as we know the signature does not and has never changed. The MO can and has changed in killers. The pattern will not change.
Another pattern concerning the Whitechapel killer is the locations of the bodies. The bodies are the comfort zone of the killer. The area of the East End in which he feels comfortable. Any pattern a serial killer uses is comfortable to him. Anything a serial killer does he does only because it is comfortable to him. The weapon(s) he chooses, the area he kills, the area he may abduct in, the area he may dispose in, the type of victim. Everything is done according to his comfort pattern. Again the more organized the more this is seen.
Peace,
Scott |
Author: Michael Conlon
Tuesday, 16 April 2002 - 11:29 pm | | Hi Scott,
Many thanks for addressing my queries, and I think you bring a fresh and fascinating spin to this investigation, grounded as it is in professional acumen. Nonetheless, I am a bit chary of the emphasis you place on the 'conscious' significance of the number '38' as a template for the killer (unless, as may be highly likely, I completely misconstrue your meaning). In the admitted vacuum ofhard evidence in this case, it is natural (perhaps unavoidable) to seek out tangential meaning in the bits and pieces we do know, teasing out import from mere coincidence. I am not saying you are doing this. I just don't know if this methodology is warranted by the amassed knowledge experts have gleaned from Sk cases. Obviously, I defer to your expertise in this (especially and self-servingly, if La Bruckman fits your pattern, in which case I will laud you as an investigative genius!).
Anyway, I wonder if you got a chance to review my prolix response to your profile over on the profiling thread.
Very best regards,
Mike |
Author: graziano
Wednesday, 17 April 2002 - 08:57 am | | Hello Scott,
your theory about the factor "38" is very interesting indeed and a bit intriguing.
Let's add to it that, if I am not wrong, 38 of the 39 stabs Martha Tabram received were given with the same weapon (and likely by the same man).
Still I have a little problem with it:
M. Tabram killed on a Tuesday -Bank Holiday, OK
M. Nichols killed on a Friday -Bank Holiday, good,
the double event on a Sunday morning, that's fine,
Mary Kelly on a Friday, Lord's Mayor day, once again that's fine, but the problem is Annie Chapman and John Gill, they were both killed on a Saturday.
It could be my ignorance but I do not think at the time Saturday was a different day than a normal Friday or Monday.
I mean, it was a working day as the others, business as usual.
Aside, of course, for the Jews respecting Shabbat, but there we have the problem with the Sunday.
Well, maybe I am wrong, after all I am not sure of the conception of the "week-end" at the time.
Just a thought.
Bye. Graziano.
P.S.:
a) Rose Mylett ?
b) Seen how John Gill was dismembered does that allow us to consider with another eye the "Trunk murders" and in particular the Pinchin street one ? |
Author: Scott E. Medine
Wednesday, 17 April 2002 - 09:34 am | | Thanks Mike,
I do admit the 38 thing is going waaaaayyyyyyy out on a very flimsy limb. Its just something that stuck out to me and I thought might need to be a little notation in the back of my mind or others, if the deem it so, should anything pop up in any possible Ripper related cases. By no means should it alone be used to identify the killer. Although I am sure numerologist, which I am not, would jump all over it and run wild with any and all notions they may derive from its meaning.
I did read your response to my profile and he does match on a lot of points. What surprises me most is the Arabic connection, his close ties with his family members, his cutting up the cattle for kicks and most importantly his being in a supervisory role and his work ethics.
His height, 5-8, is average. But after a conversation on the boards with Graziano, I theorized the killer to be 6 inches taller than the top line of the graffiti by conducting an experiment with my office staff. It seems every body writes on the wall at eye level. This averages out to be 6 inches less than their height. Remember this is their height in foot wear. In honor of Graziano, I think I'll call this the Graziano Writing Analysis. In an interesting side note, I spoke with a couple of my former colleagues and in the way of conversation I told them of the analysis and they immediately began measuring all gang graffiti. My former partner called me back several days later and told me in one case they narrowed an unsolved gang related homicide down to two possible members, one of which he highly suspected as he fled the city approximately 2-3 months after the murder. I really can’t believe I never thought of this sooner as it is the same principle used in determining the height of a shooter, as most people hold hand gun at shoulder level. Anyway, if we can ever determine exactly where the graffiti was written then the height of the killer MAY greatly reduce the playing field.
The height determination is an example of how the FBI’s system of profiling is flawed. The FBI agents do not look at the small details. They look at the big picture, the small details are often over looked. Douglas himself stated the graffiti is not as important as the location of the apron.
Peace,
Scott |
Author: Scott E. Medine
Wednesday, 17 April 2002 - 09:39 am | | TGraziano,
That is one of the problems. Work weeks and hours were different then, I would assume. It is also unknown to me just who would have been off on Bank Holidays. It is also unknown to me just how paydays worked. Was a steady employee paid once a week, twice a month, daily, per job, per hour etc... All of this would greatly contribute to the facts. As I said before, I am way out on a limb in a dangerous position with the 38 theory part of the profile.
Peace,
Scott |
Author: Scott E. Medine
Wednesday, 17 April 2002 - 09:45 am | | Mike,
If you e-mail me, I can tell you what information I need of LaBruckman's to conduct a very controversial profile that has helped me and the New Orleans Police Dept., along with several other major US police departments, in determining the credibility of a suspect.
Peace,
Scott |
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