Author: Mick James
Tuesday, 29 January 2002 - 07:51 am |        |
Re: "la Hollandaise" and Sickert the Ripper: I've seen this painting many times and at first impression you do see this bizarre, apelike deathshead staring out at you from the canvas. But you can resolve the compostion: the model is craning round to look at herself in the mirror on the left--you can just see her head and the highlight of her upper arm and shoulder in the lower RH corner of the mirror. The slash of paint at the skulls's "mouth" is actually her collarbone, while the black dot of the skull's "nose" represents the shadow where her jawbone meets her neck under the ear.
Whether Sickert was unaware of the deathshead illusion or was attempting something similar to the crone/young girl optical illusion, I couldn't say.
Either way it seems to have as much bearing on the Ripper case as Les Demoiselles D'Avignon (with its five prostitutes, some with deformed faces, and bowl of dubious looking "fruit". Where WAS the infant Picasso in 1888?).
As flimsy as Cornwell's case against Sickert is, it does raise the intriguing possibility that (Ripper-obsessive and practical-joker) Sickert wrote some of the hoax letters--perhaps even the one that originated the "Jack the Ripper" soubriquet itself? Thus in later life Sickert would even be able to boast to outraged intimates that he "was" Jack the Ripper, deploying a macabre double entendre. As intellectually satisfying as this outcome would be, there is, needless to say, nothing whatever to suggest that it's true. |
Author: Wolf Vanderlinden
Tuesday, 29 January 2002 - 12:26 pm | |
I will have to respectfully disagree with you, Mick, regarding "La Hollandaise". If the woman in the painting is craning her neck to look at herself in the mirror as you suggest then Sickert has painted her left ear on the back of her head. Also, as a master tonal painter, Sickert's dark blobs on the "face" make no sense as cast shadows, whether shadows from the jawbone as you suggest or shadows cast by the nose onto the upper lip. Sickert was not clumsy when dealing with the effects of light and shadow.
Wolf. |
Author: Neal Shelden
Tuesday, 29 January 2002 - 05:45 pm | |
Has anyone ever suggested that the reason for why Sickert fantasized about the Jack the Ripper murders, is because he possibly met with MJK's landlord John McCarthy at one time in his life?
John McCarthy's son and daughter-in-law were famous music hall performers. Walter Sickert was an artist famous for paintings of music hall scenes. Is it not likely that Sickert once met McCarthy, and heard the full horrific story of what happened at Miller's Court from McCarthy himself?
Then Sickert became obsessed by the subject enough to create a fictional role for himself and add bizarre royal conspiracy theories. |
Author: Bob Hinton
Tuesday, 29 January 2002 - 05:51 pm | |
Dear Everyone,
If you want to see a real spooky JTR type painting by Sickert - check out 'Summer Afternoon'
all the best
Bob Hinton |
Author: thom bratt
Tuesday, 29 January 2002 - 07:03 pm | |
Dear Simon & Rosemary:
If either of you get to see that painting; "Jack the Ripper's Bedroom", I think it would be a productive endeavor if you could take a photo picture of it then compare it with other Sicker paintings to see if it looks simular to Sicker's own bedroom--that is of course if he had ever painted his own bedroom--or any other room of his home that he may have painted. |
Author: thom bratt
Tuesday, 29 January 2002 - 07:05 pm | |
Simon & Rosemary:
Woops, I forgot the "t" at the end of Walter's sir name.
Regards,
Thom |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Tuesday, 29 January 2002 - 08:54 pm | |
Dear Thom Bratt,
I am reliably informed that the painting: "Jack the Ripper's Bedroom", was officially photographed
by the Art Curator at Moseley St Gallery, for a Scottish gentleman named MacDonald who then had it delivered to a Mr Skinner & Co. It was decided
by 'committee' to call it "The Veterinary Student"
for reasons best known to themselves.Anyway, thats the tale I heard from Jock MacRipper hisself.
Rosey :-) |
Author: Tom Wescott
Tuesday, 29 January 2002 - 10:30 pm | |
Neal,
John McCarthy's kid was a music hall performer? I have some books by Richard Harding Davis where, I believe, he discusses such a McCarthy. I wonder if they are one and the same? Do you have the names of these performers?
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Wednesday, 30 January 2002 - 01:23 pm | |
*Dear Ms O'Ryan,
Really, you are the most persistent correspondent I have yet encountered. The threat to blow-up my home unless I provide further details, is absurd as your humour. You are becoming an annoyance. For the last time:
(1) I was informed of the Sickert paintings in closed storage by the Conservator, Peter Hartley.
He stated they were from the estate of Cecily Hey.
One was "Jack The Ripper's Bedroom", in pencil on reverse in Sickert's handwriting. The other was
a portrait of Dr Rosslyn D'Onston which had no meaning to me at THAT time [July, 1992].
(2) It does appear that you have been ferreting.
Yes, I did steal works of art from both public and private collections, but the majority were
returned to their owners.
I have never substituted paintings, nor have I added or deleted details on those paintings.
I have never substituted documents, nor have I added or deleted details at the Public Records Office.
(3) The document you hint at was allegedly stolen
from a house in Buxton, Derbyshire, and was the subject of negotiation between myself and a close member of the Royal Family, at Buxton Police Station, Derbyshire, during 1989. Witnesses include Det. Sgt Eaton and Det. Inspector Baker.
[Ref., Crimewatch UK, Sue Cook, 18.5.89. Angela
Holdsworth 4.7.90.BBC Solicitors Dept,21.10.90]
The document concerned an enquiry into Sickert's background history and was undertaken on behalf of the then Home Secretary, Winston Churchill, who
was fearful of the society gossip connecting Sickert and the Ripper crimes. The report raises the question as to whether his mother was Jewish.
And there was some suggestion relating to the Royal Family. But, there was nothing conclusive that linked him to the Ripper crimes.
No further communication PLEASE.
Yours, D.Og.MacDonald.
Portree, Skye.*
__________________________________________________
Dear Thom,
Straight from the horses mouth! I have another angle I have to investigate. Back soon.
Rosey :-) |
Author: Neal Shelden
Wednesday, 30 January 2002 - 01:48 pm | |
Tom,
I best just point out that Andy Aliffe first discovered this piece of information.
The son of John McCarthy took the stage name of Steve McCarthy. Although, I found that on John McCarthy's Will, Steve's real name was 'John Joseph McCarthy'. Im pretty certain that he used the name of Steve because his mother's maiden name was Elizabeth 'Stevens'.
Again, Andy found that Steve McCarthy married the famous music hall singer 'Marie Kendall'. Marie Kendall was a friend of the most famous music hall singers including Marie Lloyd. Therefore, I would suggest that perhaps Walter Sickert painted Marie Kendall at one time, or just that it's very likely that he met with Marie Kendall and Steve McCarthy, and most probably John McCarthy himself!
All the best.
Neal |
Author: Becky Leppla
Wednesday, 30 January 2002 - 07:42 pm | |
| does anyone know where i might be able to find some of his paintings online. not to buy...just to look at. i've seen some of them but i would like to see more. in my personal opinion, i thought patricia cornwell made a very convincing case. i just starting getting into the whole jack the ripper thing in october when the movie from hell came out...and now i've read like 4 books on him. i personally think that sickert could most likely be the one who did do it...but i'm not 100% sure. if anyone knows where i can find these his painting relating to jack the ripper please email me at CeHSChic15@aol.com. thanx. |
Author: Tom Wescott
Wednesday, 30 January 2002 - 10:18 pm | |
Neal,
Thanks for the info, that may well be worth looking into.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Author: Guy Hatton
Thursday, 31 January 2002 - 04:44 am | |
Becky -
Don't know off-hand of anywhere on the net where you can find Sickert's paintings reproduced, but you could try posting a request to the alt.binaries.pictures.fine-art newsgroup and see if anyone has any scans.
Cheers
Guy |
Author: Guy Hatton
Thursday, 31 January 2002 - 05:27 am | |
...or try the links here.
Cheers
Guy |
Author: thom bratt
Thursday, 31 January 2002 - 08:40 am | |
Dear Rosey:
My goodness, I hope you really didn't threaten to blow up the man's house, or is this just a little bit of British humor that as a Yank I do not quite understand? Never-the-less, it does appear that Mr. MacDonald manages to "aquire" art and has the means to distribute in some rather lofty social circles. Best of luck on working your next angle.
Regards,
Thom |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Thursday, 31 January 2002 - 08:50 am | |
Dear Thom,
Diligent research methodology!
Rosey :-)
PS. MacDonald was also "R.Watt", co-producer of "Star Wars" and "Raiders of the Lost Ark". You figure that out!!!!!MEGA-BUCKS. |
Author: thom bratt
Thursday, 31 January 2002 - 04:29 pm | |
Dear Rosey:
Mr. MacDoland, aka; R.Watt seems to be an interesting person. Do you know if he is a ripperologist or is he just someone with indirect peripheral information on certain aspects of the JTR case? Whatever, he seems to be annoyed with the attention that has come to him regarding Sickert and it sounds like he wishes to be left alone which I feel we should respect if we should ever want to obtain his cooperation in the future.
Regards,
Thom |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Thursday, 31 January 2002 - 05:05 pm | |
Dear Thom,
Who ever he is...he is best left alone. I agree.
Rosey :-) |
Author: Robert House
Thursday, 31 January 2002 - 06:57 pm | |
Just a folow up on an earlier post I did regarding Sickert's painting "Maple Street": http://web.mit.edu/dcraft/www/rh/images/sickert.jpg
The minute I saw it, this painting reminded me of Jack the Ripper. Then I looked at the name and saw it was Sickert. I think this painting really conveys the sense of the dark, lonely streets where the murders took place. I don't know where Maple Street is, but I was wondering if this could possibly be a painting of one of the crime scenes? I thought it kind of looked Mitre Square-ish...
Rob House |
Author: Caroline Anne Morris
Friday, 01 February 2002 - 07:22 am | |
Dear Rosey,
Do have a bit of self-respect and leave yourself alone! 
Have a great weekend everyone, including Mr. MacDonald - we know you're less than a few feet away.
Love,
Caz |
Author: thom bratt
Friday, 01 February 2002 - 09:13 am | |
Dear Rosey:
I'm glad we're in agreement regarding MacDonald's wishes. By-the-way, what progress have you made on the angle you said you were working?
Regards,
Thom |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Friday, 01 February 2002 - 12:36 pm | |
Dear Caroline,
Yup, my Big Mac is right by my side with fries!
Rosey :-)
Dear Thom,
That is a big secret...but between you and I, it involves an investigation of the relationship between Anthony Blunt, MacDonald, and the Queen Mum's Ripper Collection.
MacDonald reckons that Blunt's "Apostles"...the Cambridge Spies...were, in fact, double-agents!
He claims that they used a 'ruse' successfully
implemented by the earlier Comintern...and subververted the Soviet leadership...leading to the unification of Europe.
"The history of the world is but a myth", he said.
Damn, does that ring a bell, Thom?
Rosey :-) |
Author: thom bratt
Friday, 01 February 2002 - 12:59 pm | |
Dear Rosey:
Sorry, not only does it not ring a bell but I'm baffled by all of it; "the Queen Mum's Ripper collection...the Cambridge spies...the Soviet Union and the unification of Europe"? I'm not following you.
Perhaps you could help me with something else. Do you know where I can get Walter Sickert's biogrophical profile, not his entire life story but just a profile, such as; his birth date, birth place, when and who did he marry, children's names, etc?
Regards,
Thom |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Friday, 01 February 2002 - 03:34 pm | |
Dear Thom,
And I thought you were following the plot! If you remember, "Indie" had a Scots father named "Jones"
right? How bizarre?!
Could the truth be right there? "The Jones are the Men who will not be Blamed for Nothing"...with the Staff of Thothmoses and the crystal that at noon points to the home of Jack
(Jones The Ripper)in the East End????
I know, you think I watch too many late-night movies. Go on say it![sigh].
Regarding the biography of Walter Sickert...you do ask awkward questions Thom. Firstly, he is an enigma, in that, what we know he tells us. The so-called expert on Walter is WENDY BARRON...she does not reply to questions from the hoipoloi...
and she dismisses the very idea that Mr Walter aka
Richard Sickert, FRS, is, even remotely...teensy
weensy-bit Ripperesque. By the way, if you happen to be invited to a Royal Garden Party...don't mention the name. Mr Blunt was instrumental in disposing of the Queen Mum's Sickert collection
long ago.
If you are looking for an authority on Sickert's
life, I suggest you speak with Chris George on these boards.
Rosey, grinding out the news. :-) |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Friday, 01 February 2002 - 03:56 pm | |
PS,
Hope you stay around for the great clash of feminine egos...Dr Wendy Barron v's Patricia Cornwell (Asst. Path. Finder). Referreed by yours truly...it's gonna be mourda!
Rosey O'Ryan :-)) |
Author: Wolf Vanderlinden
Friday, 01 February 2002 - 04:23 pm | |
Rob,
Late in his life, Walter Sickert had, or shared, a studio with his friend and fellow artist, Harry Jonas at Thackeray House, Jonas's home, which was situated at 35 Maple Street, off of Cleveland Street in ‘Fitzrovia', in the West End. This is the same Cleveland street of the scandal fame. Atmospheric as it may be, the painting is not of any of the Ripper murder scenes.
Wolf. |
Author: thom bratt
Friday, 01 February 2002 - 06:05 pm | |
Dear Rosey:
You're right I wasn't following the plot, I didn't know that I was suppose to be following a plot. There is nothing wrong with watching late-night movies, however I do feel that you're reaching for the moon when you try to make a connection between Mr. MacDonald, Indiana Jones and the writings on a wall found in Whitechapel(over 113 years ago)as if Mr. MacDonald had the "truth". I believe if he or anyone else had the "truth" they would reveal it even if it involved their own ancestors. I don't believe that any one could hold back the biggest murder mystery in the history of modern civilization.
Now for my inquiry on ol'man Sickert. I am surprised to learn that he is such an enigma. I thought that since many of his painting hang in many British museums--and we're not talking about someone who lived 1000 years ago but at the end of the late 19th to the early 20th century--where they usually give you a little pamphlet with a short bio of the artist, that there would be some general knowledge about him. I'm sure general bio information is available on his contemporary and rival painter; Whistler. But being a Yank and not a Brit I'm sure I assume too much.
Thank you for Ms. Barron's name, with whom I agree that Walter Sickert was not the Ripper. Regardless, I would like to contact her or someone from whom I could get general bio information about Sickert. My reason is that his name has been linked to contemporary suspects, such as; Montegue John Druitt and the Duke of Clarence and I would like to try to match up some documented statements chronologically.
If there is no way Ms. Barron can be reached or if she will not discuss the subject then I'll try to reach Chris George on "the boards".
Thanks for your help,
Thom |
Author: Robert House
Friday, 01 February 2002 - 06:49 pm | |
Wolf,
Thanks for the reply.
So, does anyone know anything about Sickert's appearance? ie. Does he fit the description given by any of the witnesses? His age at the time (28) fits anyway.
Rob |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Friday, 01 February 2002 - 08:36 pm | |
Dear Thom,
Then there is the patented Wolf Vanderlinden Demystification Apparatus.That guy never ceases to amaze us!
Rosey :-) |
Author: Wolf Vanderlinden
Sunday, 03 February 2002 - 07:27 pm | |
Thanx Rosey, but I just make most of it up as I go along ;-)
Wolf. |
Author: david rhea
Sunday, 03 February 2002 - 10:52 pm | |
| Outside of H.P.Lovecraft in his story'Pickman's Model',Who do you know killed in order to paint murder scenes for the public.That's about as bad as Florie Maybrick under the shadows of the gallows refusing to pull the plug on James because she had some feelings for the family.Or James invading Whitechapel from Liverpool making the sign of the 'M'.Who was that tall man talking to all these murdered prostitutes? Why, James Maybrick from Liverpool ,nearly dead from arsenic intake,acting out his hatred for his wife and her lover. |
Author: thom bratt
Monday, 04 February 2002 - 09:02 am | |
Attention Chris George:
Dear Chris:
If you find this message I would appreciate it if you would respond to it. Could you please tell me where I can obtain biographical information on Water Sickert?
Regards,
Thom |
Author: Tom Wescott
Monday, 04 February 2002 - 11:30 am | |
Thom,
Have you not tried going to www.google.com and putting 'Walter Sickert' into the advanced search engine? There's plenty of websites with the bare facts about Sickert. I would suggest reading more than one so you can compare information for accuracy. Then again you can also purchase any one of many biographies on Sickert at www.abe.com.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Author: Simon Owen
Monday, 04 February 2002 - 02:10 pm | |
Pgghlkkkgkkkmyarggglllk R'yleh ek Cthulhu tghkodll mhkkl !!!!
 |
Author: david rhea
Monday, 04 February 2002 - 03:26 pm | |
| you get the point!Do you believe that Sickert murdered to paint? |
Author: Caroline Anne Morris
Tuesday, 05 February 2002 - 05:59 am | |
Hi David,
I believe Sickert's art was enough for him. He didn't need to murder anyone. And I can't imagine a killer being daft enough to try telling everyone through their paintings what they've been up to.
I just hope he's got a healthy sense of humour wherever he is now. 
Love,
Caz |
Author: thom bratt
Wednesday, 06 February 2002 - 08:00 am | |
Dear Tom Wescott:
Thank you for website info, I'll try them as soon as I get a moment.
Gratefully,
Thom |
Author: Christopher T George
Wednesday, 06 February 2002 - 02:09 pm | |
Hi, Thom, Caz, and Tom:
I think it is a fallacy that an artist's works reveal the inner workings of the individual responsible for the works, so just as we would not suspect Salvador Dali or Picasso of having done the mutilations seen in the images of malformed humanity in their paintings, or Edgar Allan Poe of committing murders such as those that he describes in his stories, "The Tell Tale Heart" and "The Cask of Amontillado," we would not expect Walter Sickert to have done the murders that his paintings are alleged to show. I find it quite interesting though that mystery novelist Patricia Cornwell would lay at the feet of Walter Sickert the charge of him having done such murders and actually portraying them in his paintings. Her psychology in making this accusation is quite interesting. How would she think if people accused her of doing the murders like those that she describes in her novels?
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: Tom Wescott
Wednesday, 06 February 2002 - 09:30 pm | |
Chris,
That's a very interesting, and intriguing, point. Perhaps someone will put that to her in an interview? No, that's doubtful, because they'll be too busy kissing up. Well, on a related point I have completed my article 'Sickert, Ennui, & The Ripper Letters' and have submitted it to CM for the next Ripper Notes, but I seem to have gotten your email address wrong as my email to you came back. What is it again?
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Author: Caroline Anne Morris
Thursday, 07 February 2002 - 03:55 am | |
Hi Chris,
I agree with you entirely. And I cannot understand how Pat could argue that painting murder scenes ever points to an artist's secret desire to kill, or actual killings.
Every one of us here could be accused because we describe murder scenes and keep on describing them, down to the tiniest details, right or wrong!
But maybe Pat is more likely to fancy herself, not as one of the killers in her novels, but as Dr. Kay Scarpetta, because she can only fantasise (like us) about being good enough to get the right man.
Love,
Caz |
