Author: James Nason
Sunday, 06 January 2002 - 05:07 am |        |
As John (Joseph) Merrick was in Whitechapel at the time of the murderers I would have imagined that he was suspected by some of commiting the murderers due to his monsterous appearance.
Has anyone seen any reference to this or am I totally wrong? |
Author: Leanne Perry
Sunday, 06 January 2002 - 04:30 pm | |
G'day James,
Remembering his name being mentioned, I just typed 'Merrick' into the Keyword Search box on the left. I suggest you do the same if you're interested! (make sure you spell it correct!)
LEANNE |
Author: Arfa Kidney
Monday, 07 January 2002 - 09:18 am | |
Hello James,
I don't think Joseph Merrick would have ever been seriously considered as a suspect,simply because of the gross deformities that gave him such an unusual,and for many an alarming apearance.The police where looking for someone who was able to blend in to the crowd and someone who didn't arouse suspicion.
Regards,
Mick |
Author: James Nason
Monday, 07 January 2002 - 09:23 am | |
That did accur to me that and he couldn't walk properly which wouldn't have helped and at no point did the Police start looking for a man with a hump, a bad limp and a bag over his head!
I just thought that someone might have accused him as he was looked upon as a kind of monster by people that didn't know what was wrong with him.
He definetely wasn't Jack the Ripper... |
Author: Monty
Monday, 07 January 2002 - 12:26 pm | |
Hi All,
Hey, his right hand was perfectly normal. Could have performed the murders quite easily....... wait, no, wasn't Jacky left handed???
Coming from Josephs home town I find it staggering that we have no memorial to such a kind, intelligent and graceful man. Someone who shone despite his difficulties and someone who had such an interesting if somewhat horrific life.
An inspiration.
Outraged Monty
 |
Author: Arfa Kidney
Monday, 07 January 2002 - 12:48 pm | |
Absolutely,Monty,
Joseph was way above average intelligence,he was creative artistically and was fond of good literature.
Unfortunately he was treated by the ignorant as a figure of fun.
Definitely high on the list of people I wish I could have met.
Mick |
Author: James Nason
Monday, 07 January 2002 - 01:05 pm | |
If he was above average intelligence then he may have known how to remove a kidney and we only have his word that he couldn't walk without a limp and that his left arm was useless.
I think he should be put forward as a suspect for the Whitechapel murders, either that or he used Dr Treaves to help satisfy his taste for flesh. There's a picture of Treaves at www.elephant-man.co.uk and I'm sure he matches the description of the Ripper
I want both of there names added to the list of suspects immediately! |
Author: Arfa Kidney
Monday, 07 January 2002 - 01:20 pm | |
James,
You'd be wasting you time because everybody knows the Whitechapel murders were committed by co-conspirators Flo'Nightingale and Lewis Carol!
Mick |
Author: Monty
Monday, 07 January 2002 - 01:26 pm | |
Arfa,
Here we go again
How many times do I have to tell you?
Not Lewis.........It was the Mad Hatter and the Doormouse who was on watch.
Monty
 |
Author: Christopher T George
Tuesday, 08 January 2002 - 12:28 am | |
Hi, James et al.:
The point about Joseph Merrick is that after he was taken into the London Hospital under the aegis of Sir Frederick Treves in 1884, his malformations, either as a result of neurofibromatosus as first thought or Proteus syndrome as some now think, had grown considerably worse. His head grew in size so that he eventually died in his sleep in April 1890 when the weight of his head apparently dislocated his neck. In other words, in the fall of 1888 Merrick was probably not physically capable of the Whitechapel murders and the notion that he could have been the murderer is absurd.
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: Michael Conlon
Tuesday, 08 January 2002 - 01:19 am | |
A couple of years ago, I was watching a documentary on the Elephant Man on, I think, the "Discovery" Channel. During the course of the show, they mentioned that it was suggested by physicians to send Merrick to "Dartmoor", and, in fact, showed the letter with the words "Dartmoor Asylum" written on it.
Dartmoor is mentioned as a place where a Ripper suspect was sent (I now forget who) and it was claimed that it must have been Broadmoor, as no Dartmoor existed. At the time of watching this show, I was struck by this, and so wrote this info. down but have never followed up on it. Is it not strange that a "Dartmoor Asylum" is mentioned also in connection with Merrick? It makes me wonder if it did not, in fact, exist. Sorry, but I can't remember the specific title of the documentary, but maybe there is some mention of this reference in one of the biographies on Merrick.(Or am I mistaken in my recollection that a Ripper suspect was sent to a supposedly nonexistent Dartmoor?).
Mike |
Author: Christopher T George
Tuesday, 08 January 2002 - 02:02 am | |
Hi, Mike:
What do you mean Dartmoor is nonexistent? Both Broadmoor and Dartmoor were H.M. prisons and still are today. Presumably by Dartmoor what was meant, I should think, was the prison. During the War of 1812, American prisoners were kept at Dartmoor and it was certainly a prison in full use in 1888. You may be right that "Dartmoor Asylum" as such did not exist but I should think that "Dartmoor Prison" would be a better option than "Broadmoor."
All the best
Chris |
Author: Jack Traisson
Tuesday, 08 January 2002 - 02:35 am | |
Hi Mike,
Broadmoor Asylum is where both Cutbush and James Kelly were sent, and from which Kelly escaped from in 1888 and remained at large until he turned himself in in 1927. "Dartmoor Asylum" is clearly a mistake as Chris just pointed out.
Mr F.C. Carr Gomm, chairman of the London Hospital management committee, sent a letter to The Times, December 4, 1886, with this plea for assistance: "He has been taken in by our hospital, though there is, unfortunately, no hope for his cure, and the question now arises what is to be done with him in the future.
He has the greatest horror of the workhouse, nor is it possible, indeed, to send him to any place where he could not insure privacy, since his appearance is such that all shrink from him.
The Royal Hospital for Incurables and the British Home for Incurables both decline to take him in, even if sufficient funds were forthcoming to pay for him."
Gomm told of Merrick's history and asked for suggestions about what to do with him as well as stating that even though they treated 76 000 cases a year he would not be ejected into the street.
Cheers,
John |
Author: Michael Conlon
Tuesday, 08 January 2002 - 02:35 pm | |
Chris and John,
Thanks very much for the clarification. I guess I'm a little confused. The documentary clearly stated "Dartmoor Asylum" and I think the claim was that it existed in the East End of London.
Wasn't there a reference to a suspect being sent to Dartmoor Asylum, which modern scholars believe must have been a mistaken reference to Broadmoor Asylum, or am I more confused than usual?
Thanks,
Mike |
Author: Christopher T George
Tuesday, 08 January 2002 - 04:03 pm | |
Hi, Mike:
Dartmoor is in Devon in the West Country, some 200 miles from London, which makes it an unlikely place to send the Elephant Man given that there were asylums much nearer to the city where he could be sent. I can't speak to the suspect being sent to Dartmoor. Possibly Paul Begg or another of our knowledgeable authors could answer on that point.
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: Michael Conlon
Tuesday, 08 January 2002 - 04:40 pm | |
Hi, Chris
Many thanks, again, for indulging me in this
obscure question (which, perhaps, I misremember),
But I'm almost certain that a Dartmoor Asylum in the East End was proposed as a domecile for Merrick, and that a Dartmoor Asylum was a supposed location for a Ripper suspect. I guess we'll just have to leave this hanging for the time being. I'll check some books and see if I can find the reference.
Best regards & thanks!
Mike |
Author: Christopher T George
Wednesday, 09 January 2002 - 03:54 am | |
Hi, Michael:
Here is the answer to your query. It was in fact a suspect who was held in the asylum at Dartmoor Prison in Devon. The following newspaper article is from the Morning Leader of 18 February 1894, and was the subject of an article in Ripperana by D. S. Goffee (who found the news report) some years ago. As you can see, Dartmoor Prison had an asylum for mental patients.
Best regards
Chris George
 |
Author: Michael Conlon
Wednesday, 09 January 2002 - 02:36 pm | |
A million thanks, Chris!
It was driving me crazy trying to find that reference. I wonder if the asylum at Dartmoor prison was the proposed destination for Merrick?
Best regards,
Mike |
Author: Thomas A. Mead
Wednesday, 06 February 2002 - 02:36 pm | |
Bingo! I came to that conclusion several years ago. After extensive research I could not eliminate him and actually each piece of data I found added to him fitting the "profile". I co-wrote a book that is available at:
www.1stbooks.com enter: Thomas Mead in the author search box and:
"Dear Boss, A Victims' Victims" should come up. (This is my first time here so I hope it isn't tacky to advertise so shamelessly)(but is is also
only $5.95) I will go over point by point any problems people have with my theory. The book is in historical fictional form but assure you I have all the data to back up my hypothesis. |
Author: James Nason
Wednesday, 06 February 2002 - 04:08 pm | |
| Could you tell me the catalouge number for the book so I can see if I can get hold of a copy? |
