Archive through June 9, 1999

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Archive through June 9, 1999

Casebook Message Boards: Ripper Suspects: Specific Suspects: Later Suspects [ 1910 - Present ]: Hutchinson, George (British): Archive through June 9, 1999

Author: Bob Hinton Thursday, 01 April 1999 - 11:54 am
Dear Mr Birchwood Having tracked our George for some time I can say with very little doubt he's not the same as the American. At the time he was incarcerated in Elgin, our George was working as a barman in Rosaman St. Bob Hinton
Author: Bob Hinton Thursday, 01 April 1999 - 11:58 am
Dear Stewart I've tried to phone with no success, Crippen arrived safe and well, very many thanks Bob Hinton
Author: Christopher T. George Thursday, 01 April 1999 - 02:23 pm
Hey, Bob and Stewart: What was Dr. Crippen doing in the autumn of 1888? :-) Chris George
Author: Stewart P Evans Thursday, 01 April 1999 - 04:46 pm
Bob, Pleased you like it, the NBT 'Trial of H.H. Crippen' is on the way to you also. I will ring you again and give you my new telephone number. Chris, I guess he was very young and in the U.S.A. Stewart
Author: The Viper Thursday, 01 April 1999 - 05:53 pm
Hello Peter The 1876 meeting at Hendon was experimental. It involved running the hare mechanically on a grooved rail operated by a windlass. Though the experiment was considered a success by the organisers, it did not appeal to the public. This is because the straight track allowed pure speed to prevail over the greyhound's natural coursing skills, and because spectators could not view the race in its entirety. Only in the 1920's with the introduction of oval tracks and spectator facilities did greyhound racing become a sport. Regards, V
Author: Christopher T. George Thursday, 01 April 1999 - 09:14 pm
Hi, Stewart: I am not, I do not think, seriously proposing Dr. Hawley Harvey Crippen as a suspect in the Whitechapel murders. Clearly his modus operandi was poison not murder by knife with mutilation of the corpse following, which poses the same problem as it does for the proposals that George Chapman or Neill Cream may have been Jack. As it turns out, according to Browne and Tullett's "Bernard Spilsbury: His Life and Cases," Crippen was born in Michigan in 1862, which would have made him 26 at the time of the Whitechapel murders. He came to England per those authors at age 21 supposedly to further his medical education, and later obtained among his other qualifications a diploma as an eye and ear specialist from the Ophthalmic Hospital in New York in 1885. So with due deference, Stewart, despite your inference, Crippen was no callow youth in 1888, and he was presumably familiar with London by age 26. Obviously, I have no evidence to tie Crippen to the murders in the East End. On the other hand, I would submit that although Dr. H. H. Crippen may not have been Jack, a card-carrying murderer bears closer scrutiny than does a "suspect" such as George Hutchinson or Joseph Barnett, for which there is not a shred of evidence that they committed murder. My apologies to Mr. Bob Hinton on this one. Chris George
Author: Calogridis Thursday, 01 April 1999 - 10:35 pm
Howdy All! Perhaps George Hutchinson of Elgin, Illinois was the chap espied by the British George Hutchinson. No wonder they were so concerned with one another! Sorry, couldn't resist. Cheers.......Mike
Author: Peter Birchwood Friday, 02 April 1999 - 05:21 am
Viper: Thanks for the Hendon info and indeed you're probably right about it being a one-off and the idea may well not have been repeated until 1926. Romford dog-track is I believe pre-war and it's unlikely that they raced there in 1888. Indeed, the idea of giving Hutchinson a reason to go there was probably raised semi-seriously. Let us however at least give Bob the opportunity of possibly being right in that Hutch could have raced his dog there.It's far more likely that Hutch was Banger-racing at Arena-Essex. Bob: Now I have to confess that I haven't read your book but as you know, this is mid-Wales and it usually takes a year or two for a book to get into our local bookshop even if it's only published fifty miles down the road so maybe you can tell me how you are absolutely certain, given the commoness of the name, that you can identify the earlier life of your suspect. Peter
Author: RLeen Friday, 02 April 1999 - 10:19 am
Hello there, I am still trying to rationalise why it took Mr Hutchinson 2-3 days before coming forward with a statement. I assume it was because his Rover SDI banger broke down outside Essex, and as you know guv, you can't get the parts these days. (American translations available soon). To my request, could anyone tell me if there was some form of link between Hutchinson and Joe Barnett. Were they friends or distant cousins for example? Were they even aware of each others existence? Thanking you for your consideration. Rabbi Leen
Author: Stewart P Evans Friday, 02 April 1999 - 11:40 am
Did anyone suggest that Crippen was a Ripper suspect??? All I did was send Bob a book or two on Crippen as he is interested in the case. :-) Stewart
Author: Bob Hinton Saturday, 03 April 1999 - 04:33 am
Hi everyone, Time to answer a few questions I think, first off C George. I think you may have been a little mis-led by my posting about Crippen, Stewart sent me a book on Crippen, I didn't have his new telephone number or email so I posted my thanks instead. I don't think I can go along with your ideas about 'card carrying murderers'. Card carrying murderers are only those that have been caught after all. Crippen was a most unlikely murder suspect being quiet, well mannered and pleasant. I believe I am correct in saying that most people who commit murder would probably never be a danger to anyone ever again. The thing about JTR is that he was just like Crippen, somebody you would not give a second glance to if he was standing alongside you in the bus queue. Peter Birchwood, How can I be absolutely certain I have the right man? Good question - I can't, however I have very little doubt that he is the right man. The clues I had to work with were remarkably scarce as you will appreciate. The only things I knew about him were: His name was George Hutchinson. Examination of the statement he signed shows that he did not use any other names or initials, and the police are rather keen that the signatories to statements do identify themselves properly for obvious reasons. His age given in the papers was 28, I agree this is not written in stone, but as I said the clues were remarkably thin. His occupation was given as that of a manual worker. He stated that he knew MJK for about three years, so the chances are he was a local. Looking up the records I found only one George Hutchinson born at the target time. He was born in Shadwell not far from where MJK stayed with Mrs Carthy at Breezers Hill.. There were of course several George Hutchinsons in the East End at this time but none of them fitted as well as mine. Further investigation showed that my George had a sister born in Romford which does seem to provide a link, albeit tenuous with the George in question. I agree that to someone like yourself who tracks people down for a profession, the evidence is extremely lightweight, however given my severely limited time and resources I am confident I have the right man. I am in the process of collating all the information I have about the family Hutchinson with the intention of publishing it in the Casebook. Obviously any help or advice you can give me in this task would be very greatly appreciated. and finally........ Stewart, I was going to thank you for the book on Vlad the Impaler, but perhaps I'd better not in case someone thinks he was JTR, oh I don't know though, right type, obviously disturbed, liked killing people........................ all the best Bob Hinton
Author: Peter Birchwood Saturday, 03 April 1999 - 10:31 am
Bob: It's extraordinarily difficult to identify the birth of a man with a common name when all you know is that he was supposedly born around 1860. With no place of birth known and with the knowledge that births did not have to be civilly recorded until some years later, you have problems. You know where he was living in 1888: did you check the 1891 census or indeed the 1881? Contact me if you need help. You can buy me lunch in Cardigan. Peter.
Author: Jeff D Tuesday, 27 April 1999 - 03:50 pm
Dear Bob Hinton (& Everyone) !! I've finally had a chance to finish "From Hell" and although I'd like to discuss a few points with you, that could use clarification, or re-interpretation, I thoroughly enjoyed the read, and I found it a book well worth recommending. Your detective, analyst approach of the few available bits of evidence, the situations and the characters involved, does raise many questions. You provide a profile, for example on a character like MJ Druitt, which was enough in itself to convince me (not that I needed convincing) that in no-way could Druitt have had any part in the crimes. Yet you don't use the same profiling techniques on other suspects, such as Joseph Barnett, (who, it is no secret, is my favourite suspect) who I think could have been given a positive answer to every category. The aspect of stalkers has recently been brought home here in the UK, with the tragic assassination of Jill Dando. For our American cousins, she was a high profile TV personality, Newsreader, and presenter of a program called Crimewatch, plus many other programs. A nicer show-business personality couldn't have existed as mentioned by all who knew and worked with her. As with Mary Kelly, shortly before her murder, she did mention that she was living in fear of someone or something. Then just yesterday, she was found on the pavement right outside her home, in Fulham, London, dead from a single gunshot wound to the head..... very, very tragic. Anyway, not to get sidetracked, I am sure I can get involved in many good discussions on your theories Bob, which although I may have differing opinions on minor details, the stalking aspect has opened up a whole new way of thinking for me. Anyway, all the best everyone, I am well rested, recouperated, un-sedated, and although I have a major workload to catch up on, I hope to be able to spend as much free time as I can in some good discussion on these boards. Cheers All ! Jeff D
Author: Bob Hinton Saturday, 01 May 1999 - 07:45 am
Dear Jeff D, Many thanks for your kind remarks about the book. The fact that you still favour Joseph Barnett is excellent, it shows that you are capable of making your own decisions, the fact that you are still willing to discuss other possibilities is a lesson to us all. Stalkers are strange, frightening creatures, mainly because they do not inhabit the same world as we do. Their logic is incomprehensible to us, normal methods of communication have no effect. The most dangerous aspect of stalkers is that they do not appear to be unusually frightening, and it is very often the case that at first they merely instill in their victims a general feeling of unease, rather than fear. Compare that to the way MJK felt and you will see it is very similar. As regards to the murder of Jill Dando, can I just tell you a few things that flashed through my mind. When I heard the news on the car radio, it originally came over that she had suffered multible stab wounds to her head and neck. I immediately thought of a stalker. Stalkers like to get up close and personal and do as much physical damage as possible. When they realise the object of their obsession is never going to be theirs and they switch from Obsession Love to obsession hate, killing isn't enough - they have to completely obliterate their victim - often with a knife- but in the vast majority of cases with multiple wounds. Then I heard she had been shot with a single shot. Since no shot was heard it is fairly safe to assume a silencer was used, which pointed to a professional murder. But then the calibre of the weapon was released a 9mm, and this for me ruled out a hitman. Contract killers often use large calibre weapons when they want the noise of the report to stun and shock possible witnesses. However this wasn't the case here as it is fairly obvious the killer used a silencer. A 9mm has a sound like no other - it is a vicious crack- rather than a bang. If a professional wants to keep it quiet he uses a .22, the weapon of choice for Mossad hit teams. So what are we left with. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if this was done by certain people attatched to certain Embassies. The weapon and the planning points to a cut above the normal gangland shooting. I further predict that the actual killer is known to the police and he has already left the country, under diplomatic immunity. I don't believe anyone will ever stand trial for this. I also predict that it will probably be proved I am 100% wrong! But lets just take a moment to think about a life that has tragically been cut short, and the anguish and sorrow all her friends and family are feeling right at this moment. I would be very interested to discuss any points about Hutchinson/Barnett with you in the future.
Author: RLeen Monday, 07 June 1999 - 12:01 pm
Hello, I wonder if anyone posesses a description of George Hutchinson that they could pass on. Thanking you for your consideration and noticing that, as has long threatened to be the case, my postscript is longer than my message. Rabbi Leen
Author: Sara Monday, 07 June 1999 - 09:55 pm
Rabbi Leen: All I can gleen from the small amount of materials I have: "a man of military appearance"... "a casual labourer who had been unemployed for some weeks" p.269 in James Tully's "Prisoner 1167. The Madman Who was JtR" "There isn't any description of Hutchinson, unfortunately, but it is probable that he was the man that the laundress saw waiting outside the court when she went into Mrs Keyler's at 2:30 a.m." p. 113 in Rumbelow's "Complete JtR" (I didn't have time to find her statement, Rabbi, but thought this avenue might be of interest) "One man who saw the Ripper at very close quarters and for some time was George Hutchinson, seen here in old age. His extraordinarily precise description has fuelled the speculation that Hutchinson might have been the Ripper himself." refers to an illustration on page 85, in Trow's "The Many Faces of JtR". I'd be interested to know the description of the man the laundress saw... Hope this helps. Let us know what else you find. All the best, Sara
Author: Guy Hatton Tuesday, 08 June 1999 - 03:18 am
Sara - I don't have Trow's book, but as I remember it, he reproduces the photograph first published in Melvin Fairclough's The Ripper and the Royals. I believe it has subsequently been suggested that the gentleman in the photo is not THE George Hutchinson, but rather A George Hutchinson, identified erroneously. Perhaps someone else could confirm or deny this?
Author: Peter Birchwood Tuesday, 08 June 1999 - 05:19 am
MrLeen: (Because I'm not sure if you're a Rabbi or perhaps just Scottish)Would you know if a Jewish family living in Whitechapel between 1904 and 1918 would list their children in any Synagogue record that would be the equivalent of Christian Baptism and if so, are those records likely to be still available for research? E-mail me if you prefer as this isn't ripper-related. Regards, Peter.
Author: Sara Tuesday, 08 June 1999 - 10:44 am
Guy, and R Leen: Trow shows an illustration, not a photo, but perhaps taken from one - I included it because it was available. It is supposedly G.H. in "old age" so regardless, it's of little value. Actually, the illus. favors the Broadmoor ID photo of James Kelly for his readmitance. Just a snap of an old guy. :-) I wanted to give you everything I had to work with as it was on my desk. I am less a "theorician" and more "Mistress of Minutiae" All the best, Sara
Author: Guy Hatton Wednesday, 09 June 1999 - 03:11 am
Sara - Thanks for the correction re. Trow. Serves me right for trying to rely on memory. Rabbi Leen - the pointer to, and caveat regarding Fairclough's "Hutchinson" photo still stands, of course.