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** This is an archived, static copy of the Casebook messages boards dating from 1998 to 2003. These threads cannot be replied to here. If you want to participate in our current forums please go to https://forum.casebook.org **
My three most favoured suspects
Casebook Message Boards: Ripper Suspects: General Discussion :
My three most favoured suspects
Author: John Omlor
Sunday, 06 January 2002 - 08:53 am |        | "It is hard not to be struck by the similarity of Mary Kelly's last moments and those of Desdemona in Shakespeare's Othello."
Uh, someone better re-read the end of Othello. The last moments of Desdemona and of Mary Kelly are completely different. For one thing, Desdemona dies bloodlessly. She is smothered. That's important in the play. With Mary there's that whole carving her up and cutting out the body parts thing going on. This would seems like a significant difference. Then there's the fact that Des's murderer kills himself right there at the scene. That apparently does not happen in the Kelly case (what with there being no other body in the room and all). Of course, there is a handkerchief mentioned in both cases. I guess that's enough to create a theory. But I'm curious, what scene was being re-enacted in the backyard of 29 Hanbury St.? Something from the sonnets perhaps, "with fortune and men's eyes?" And of course, the Eddowes murder and the Lusk letter have to be Titus Andronicus. Yum.
As someone says at the end of Othello, this all seems a little "rash and most unfortunate." But hey, the last line of the play mentions a "heavy heart." A clue, perhaps, as to why Mary's is missing.
Still a little doubtful, but now seeing Jack furiously washing his hands and reciting from Macbeth,
--John
PS: Of course, Emilia does get stabbed at the end of the play, by her husband. Maybe the Barnett people should be listening. |
Author: Scott E. Medine
Sunday, 06 January 2002 - 04:45 pm | | "A pound of man's flesh, taken from a man, is not
so estimable, profitable neither...."
Peace,
Scott |
Author: graziano
Monday, 07 January 2002 - 10:30 am | | | "Tarry, Jew..." |
Author: Tom Wescott
Monday, 07 January 2002 - 11:33 am | | Graziano,
In an earlier post you pondered as to why there were no killings in October. You said that police wouldn't have been an issue since they had already been drafted into the area by the time of the double event. That may be so, but the events of the double event, i.e. the Ripper almost getting caught, could have put an end to his bravado and brought upon him the realization that he was not infallible. Keep in mind that his next, and possibly last, victim was killed indoors. Another possible explanation for his lack of activity in October is that a heavy fog had rolled into London that month, lowering visibility dramatically. This COULD point to the Ripper not being as familiar with the East End as many think.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Author: graziano
Monday, 07 January 2002 - 11:53 am | | The fact remains that he performed right under the eyes of the Police, one here one day, one there another day.
And when Police was added to Police he took two for the price of one.
Surrendering only before the anger of the united East End populace.
As I told to Leanne on another board, pimps could easy be seen as exploiters.
Direct result of kind of society where solidarity has disappeared under the eagerness for rapid gains at others human being's expenses.
McCarthy and Miller's Court were the aim there.
Mary Kelly only the mean.
Bye. Graziano. |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Tuesday, 08 January 2002 - 02:58 am | | | If Jack had his eye on Kelly and he intended to murder her in her room then he could not do so in October.For 18 months prior to her murder Kelly had been living with others in her room and this was the case until about two days prior to her demise.So all the while she was living with others in her room the killer did not strike.As soon as the opportunity arose for the killer and Kelly was living alone she was murdered.I believe the killer had a set number of victims and with the demise of Kelly his task was complete.Thus no more murders. |
Author: Warwick Parminter
Tuesday, 08 January 2002 - 08:00 am | | IVOR, I don't need to mention this to you, but if Barnett was the guilty party then he would have had a list in his mind, of potential victims, though I don't think Kelly would have been on that list.
But, knowing Kelly was alone in 13 Miller's Court that night,-- Barnett certainly knew, and that knowledge concerned him a great deal!!
The 8th Nov, 8:00pm was crunch night for Barnett, thats when his world fell to bits, when Kelly told him she was back on her own, but there was no place for him,-- they were finished as lovers.
All the best, Rick. |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Tuesday, 08 January 2002 - 02:10 pm | | | Hi Rick, Whoever killed Kelly had their finger on the pulse. He was watching and waiting for the right moment for her to be alone in her room without fear of being interrupted.For the killer knew he needed far more time with Kelly.PS. I dont think much of this no smoking lark Rick I have put on more weight since I stopped.Did you put on weight when you stopped? I have had to go on a diet now. |
Author: Warwick Parminter
Tuesday, 08 January 2002 - 03:20 pm | | IVOR, you have my sympathy, if it ain't one thing it's another, May 25th I stopped smoking, and I'd still love a fag. I didn't have anything to take it's place, and I didn't particularly eat more,-- till Christmas came along, I've put on nearly a stone and I feel a right porker, but it will go, and your's will. It will go or it's new trousers all round. Be brave Ivor, 
Best Wishes
Rick |
Author: Vaughan Allen
Wednesday, 09 January 2002 - 06:25 am | | John,
Funny that, only last night while re-reading the McCarthy/Bowyer description of what they saw through MJK (RIP)'s window, in reference to her breasts being on the table, I was reminded of Timon of Athens...
"those milk-paps
that through the window-bars bore at men's eyes"
In fact, that whole speech (IViii) could be read as the manifesto of the Whitechapel Murderer(s)...
"strike me the counterfeit matron,
it is her habit only that is honest"... |
Author: John Patrick
Thursday, 10 January 2002 - 05:57 pm | | Firstly, the use of "data matching" as a method for indentifying authentic letters, could not have lead to the conclusions we reached regarding our proposed suspect's religious mania. We used frequency distribution tables and standard deviation tests to help to weed out possible copycat letters. In one sense, this argument is meaningless, as we think Jack the Ripper wrote many letters, contrary to popular opinion.
Secondly, the theory we put forth was that Mary Kelly, and others, were deceived into taking part in some form of ritualistic, theatrical play, or "skit". The example given was taken from Masonry, where members attempt to reach for a higher spiritual reality by playing the part of a mythological figure. On the night of Mary Kelly's murder, George Hutchinson describes a scene that comes accross as being both partly accurate and partly "staged". Both stories contain ("loud" according to Hutchinson) declarations of red handerchiefs lost, a sword (wrapped in oilcloth), melancholy songs being sung, cries of "murder" and themes of deception, hell, whores, devils and serpents.
And of course, both stories involve a murder where the "whore" gets strangled in bed. To suggest that this particular theory is invalid, simply because Kelly is ritually slaughtered following the success of the deception and because the killer then does not "actually" kill himself, is to miss the point entirely. Furthermore, we believe that there is significant symbolism attached to the name Iago as it relates to our suspect. |
Author: John Omlor
Thursday, 10 January 2002 - 06:26 pm | | Ah. So someone just approached Mary Kelly one night and asked her if she'd like to re-enact the final scene of Othello. Then they killed her, after doing something with a sword and after they had her sing a song. And they did this because they were murdering via "themes." Hell, whores, devils and serpents. And these themes were part of their little play. Of course.
I can't wait to hear the "significant symbolism" attached to the name Iago. Perhaps the killer was Italian and figured, "After I a-kill her, I-ago."
Fascinating,
--John (digging out his frequency distribution tables and standard deviation tests, which he had buried under his collection of Montovanni's "Themes For Murders.") |
Author: Guy Hatton
Friday, 11 January 2002 - 04:49 am | | John -
Perhaps they were experimenting with early plot ideas for Theatre of Blood?
Cheers
Guy |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Friday, 11 January 2002 - 01:29 pm | | Dear Patrick,
"Religious mania"...could you further elaborate on this term? Do you have any similar case-study,
vis., "religious mania"?
Rosey :-) |
Author: Mark List
Friday, 11 January 2002 - 02:11 pm | | "Theatre of Blood" is a good movie.
One of Vincent Price's favorite roles. |
Author: Robert Maloney
Saturday, 12 January 2002 - 06:01 pm | | "The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance....logic can be happily tossed out the window."
--Stephen King
Rob |
Author: david rhea
Saturday, 12 January 2002 - 08:14 pm | | | The people of 1888 are very fortunate in having us around to sort through their lives and through supposition determine whether they were truthful, crazy or what not.Sometimes it seems as if we dump all this history into a pile and reconstruct out of it what we want to. No one will ever get closer to the truth than supposition ,and that is what makes it so interesting for all of us.If we could figure it all out this Casebook would have no reason to exist. |
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