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** This is an archived, static copy of the Casebook messages boards dating from 1998 to 2003. These threads cannot be replied to here. If you want to participate in our current forums please go to https://forum.casebook.org **
Simon's Theory pt 2 : Jack did it in a Carriage
Casebook Message Boards: Ripper Suspects: General Discussion :
Simon's Theory pt 2 : Jack did it in a Carriage
Author: Jon
Wednesday, 27 June 2001 - 06:48 pm |        | Simon
Contemporary thoughts were that they died from loss of blood, sincope?.
The suggestion that they may have been strangled, or that some of them were strangled was raised in recent times.
I'm not about to scrutinize every autopsy report, as I'm sure some will consider doing, but if there was a passing remark of strangulation then thats all it must have been. However, I do recall the more recent suggestion of strangulation in the 50's or 60's or thereabouts.
Predominantly it is a modern suggestion, still not conclusive.
Regards, Jon |
Author: Simon Owen
Wednesday, 27 June 2001 - 08:01 pm | | Interestingly , ITV showed a programme on the Rachel Nickell murder tonight. ( ' Real Crimes : The Rachel Nickell story , Carlton , shown on ITV at 10.20pm GMT , 27th June 2001 ).
The story is that Rachel , 23 , was raped and murdered in 1992 while walking on Wimbledon Common , London , with her 2 year old son Alex. This murder happened in broad daylight at about 10.30 in the morning. The case is still unsolved and is controversial for the use of a ' honeytrap ' where an undercover policewoman tried to co-erce the main suspect into admitting he had committed the crime through discussion of perverted sexual fantasies. There was no forensic evidence to convict the suspect , the prosecution based its case on a profile drawn up by psychologist Paul Britton and the case collapsed in court when the judge ruled the policewoman's evidence inadmissable. The case is apparently still open , but the police are not looking for any new suspects ( suggesting they think the main suspect guilty although he has been cleared in law and cannot be tried again under double jeopardy ). The chief suspect does seem a bit of a weird guy , into the occult and exhibitionism , but if he really is innocent it must be a terrible burden to carry around with him , knowing the police still believe him guilty.
Anyway , Rachel Nickell was stabbed 49 times and the programme described how her corpse was found covered in blood ; although there were quite a few wounds to her torso , the majority of wounds had been to her neck and this is apparently what caused the bloodloss. The forensic scientist stated that the stab wounds to the torso ( through a t-shirt ) would have caused very little bleeding , merely emitting a fine spray of blood that would have been hard to notice on the killer. The scientist stated that he believed the killer stood behind her ( or less probably to her side ) and stabbed her neck causing the massive bloodloss , however keeping most of the blood off him.
This has interesting implications for the Tabram , Nichols and Chapman murders ; although the throats were cut , not stabbed , the loss of blood from the neck would seem to cause the most mess with stab wounds to the torso causing much less so.
It is Chapman's murder which is so puzzling though : death definitely caused by syncope but what happened to all of Annie's blood - a few spots on the fence cannot justify what happened IMHO. The Ripper almost took her head off , which would have involved hacking , cutting and stabbing ; he would have been in a frightful mess , as would the corpse and the murder scene.
Simon |
Author: Diana
Wednesday, 27 June 2001 - 09:16 pm | | | Maybe the purpose of the throat cutting was attempted decapitation. |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Wednesday, 27 June 2001 - 09:20 pm | | Dear Simon,
And that eerie silence? Spooky. I still think a vampire's soporific kiss rendered them exposed to the knife attack. Or Ivor's Magus...invisible and deadly? Or, the Angel Of Death, himself?
Bring on the Chandler's Cabal...just maybe...
Rosey Lipski :-) |
Author: David Cohen Radka
Wednesday, 27 June 2001 - 09:34 pm | | Simon,
How do you account for the fact that Mrs. Durwood saw Annie speaking with a man just outside the door to Hanbury Street before her murder? She couldn't have been brought to the scene dead in a carriage, if she stood and spoke with the man there.
David |
Author: Diana
Thursday, 28 June 2001 - 01:47 am | | | I have to admit that in reading about the Hillside Strangler the police were very frustrated because they always committed the murders in the perps house, put the bodies in the trunk of a car, and then dumped them out in the open. This deprived the police of a true crime scene with all the attendant clues. This probably was not nearly as important in 1888 because forensics had not begun to be important. But one of the reasons the Hillside Strangler(s) succeeded for so long was their method of always dumping the body away from the crime scene. |
Author: Caroline Anne Morris
Thursday, 28 June 2001 - 06:31 am | | Hi Simon,
Regarding the Rachel Nickell case, I believe Paul Britton was pretty adamant, before the suspect was arrested, that whoever killed her would not be able to stop himself from killing again - in other words, that a serial killer was at work - the most difficult sort to track down, or even find potential suspects. Yet there have never been, to my knowledge, any further murders which have been linked to that one on Wimbledon Common. I didn't see the whole documentary, but early on it was said that Rachel had been sexually assaulted, which may or may not mean that she was actually raped, as you stated. But we do know that there was absolutely nothing left by the killer on the body or at the scene that the police could have used for DNA comparison, otherwise the man who obliged by fitting in better than anyone else with Britton's profile would have been charged or eliminated accordingly, without the need for the desperate 'honeytrap', or indeed any of the ongoing media speculation about his guilt, which I must say I also find slightly distasteful.
If this man is innocent, and was only really in the frame because no other better suspects could be found for this serial-type killing, it's not just the burden of having the police think he's guilty, is it, when the media tend to bring it all up again at regular intervals throughout his life?
Of course they should always keep making documentaries about unsolved murder cases, but I do sometimes feel the media should not get involved in matters of opinion regarding an individual's guilt or innocence, which perhaps ought to be confined to the inside of a courtroom.
Love,
Caz |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Thursday, 28 June 2001 - 11:48 am | | Dear Simon,
The carriage theory is not unlike Ed's theory. The victim's were 'transported' to the locations where they were discovered. Ivor, meanwhile, has
them placed in a most precise pattern...but only one man (who becomes two men...and you think I'm confusing?)is involved!
For myself, I think Jack was a cricket team... Druitt was the last man out!
Laughing Roseye :-)))) |
Author: Michael Andrew Mould
Friday, 29 June 2001 - 08:56 am | | Diana
The Hillside stranglers deposited the bodies of their victims in out of the way places,not in the middle of a heavily populated city.
Having said that,i don't think any of us can be 100% certain that the victims were killed where their bodies were found but for my money i'd say that they were.
Cheers. |
Author: Michael Andrew Mould
Friday, 29 June 2001 - 08:56 am | | Diana
The Hillside stranglers deposited the bodies of their victims in out of the way places,not in the middle of a heavily populated city.
Having said that,i don't think any of us can be 100% certain that the victims were killed where their bodies were found but for my money i'd say that they were.
Cheers. |
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