Author: david rhea
Thursday, 24 January 2002 - 07:20 pm |        |
| The body parts were taken.What the killer did with them is another matter. Did he want to feast on kidneys and hearts-well, what about uteri and portions of viscera-I don't think that really you can compare JTR with Ed Gein, who seem to want to become a woman.In Santeria/Palo Mayombe rituals I read that body parts are saved to entrap the soul of the victim in a carefully prepared pot(Nganga-in the the Matamoros murders).Could these murders have any thing to do with the attainment of power?At least JTR took these organs somewhere.He did nor bury them or throw them away in his escape from the police.The eating business is not accepted, is it, as true? |
Author: Scott E. Medine
Thursday, 24 January 2002 - 07:55 pm | |
Though closely related to Voodoo, Santeria is largely practiced in the Carribean Hispanic community. It is usually practiced in private and in secret, but in New Orleans it is practiced in the open just as Voodoo is practiced in the open.
There are a lot of misconceptions that surround the practice. One of the biggest misconceptions is the practice of ritualistic sacrifice.
The pots used in Santeria are part of an alter that is erected in honor of the worshipers particular deity. Each deity has an animal, objects and qualities associated with it. The highest honor a worshiper can give their particular god or goddess is an animal sacrifice. This is usually required for a big favor that is asked of the god or goddess. In ritual fashion the animal is sacrificed and, depending on the deity, particular body parts will be placed in the pot as a way of offering the animal’s spirit to the god or goddess. At no time does Santeria require the sacrifice of another human being. Even the god, Chango, the god associated with war, fire and revenge, does not require a human sacrifice.
Peace,
Scott |
Author: david rhea
Thursday, 24 January 2002 - 08:03 pm | |
| Constanzo thought so with the sacrifices of at least 24 victims at Matamoros Mexico.His group thought that these sacrifices brought them power, a power that made them superior and invincible over those who would disrupt their drug traffic. |
Author: Scott E. Medine
Thursday, 24 January 2002 - 10:52 pm | |
But the practice of human sacrifice is not normal nor is it practiced in Santeria. Saying that the incident you site is normal for the practice of Santeria is like saying the actions of David Koresh and his faction of the Branch Davidians is normal for Christians.
Hispanic gang members practice perverted forms of Santeria and Catholism. Asian gang members like wise practice perverted forms of Buddism. None of their rituals are recognized as legitimate forms of the religion. Look at how the Italian Mafia also uses a perverted form of Catholism it is not accepted either.
Peace,
Scott |
Author: david rhea
Thursday, 24 January 2002 - 11:43 pm | |
| According to what I read there is a dark side to Voodoo.I get what I write from 'Buried Secrets' by Edward Humes.In Constanzo's initiation he is told that he will need a ngana cauldron. '.Where will I find a skull for my nganga, Godfather'. The Haitian smiled mirthlessly. In a moment the same smile twitched onto Constanzo's lips. Adolfo realized that they would do whatever it took to get a skull without compunction, compassion or fear. Desecration murder what dis it matter.He had given up his soul.He now had complete freedom"(68-69)"Human sacrifice is not murder Constanzo told his followers.Their spirits have not died.They exist now to serve us. Do it kill and then your souls will be truly dead, like mine-Then you will have no fear, no weakness left in you. Just power"(123)"The amorality of Santeria and Palo Mayombe opens a door to a dark side, in which even the most evil initiate can suceed and be rewarded through the religion. As long as the proper sacrifice is made, any request is permitted"--"In these religions there is no such thing as sin at all"(53) |
Author: david rhea
Thursday, 24 January 2002 - 11:48 pm | |
| Whether it is accepted procedure or not those who practice it act accordingly.No I am not saying that all Santeria is used for evil purposes.But what is, is as deadly as as the other is ,as some think ,positively beneficial. |
Author: david rhea
Thursday, 24 January 2002 - 11:52 pm | |
| Just as some say that there is white and black magic.Both act according to certain rituals. The black magician is striving for power over the spitits as well as people.How he gets it--Well-there are rituals for that. |
Author: Scott E. Medine
Friday, 25 January 2002 - 08:31 am | |
As someone who has grown up in the Voodoo and Santeria cultures, though I do not practice either, my only advice is read Santeria laReligion by Migene Gonzalez-Wippler.
Peace,
Scott |
Author: david rhea
Friday, 25 January 2002 - 09:40 am | |
| I have read it, but I have read other things as well.Is hers the only authority on the subject? The Matamoros murders did take place-24 people were dead-Constanzo was a practicing black magician-his followers beleived he had power and gave them p[ower.Whether this was common practice is not the point.The point is that these people believed it and acted on it. You then don't believe in a dark side to that religion? |
Author: Scott E. Medine
Friday, 25 January 2002 - 10:24 am | |
In the realm of religious studies and religious scholars, yes she is the foremost authority on the subject of Santeria.
"In Santeria/Palo Mayombe rituals I read that body parts are saved to entrap the soul of the victim in a carefully prepared pot(Nganga-in the the Matamoros murders)."
Just because Constanzo was a practicing black magician does not make him a follower of Santeria. Santeria is not black magic. In the U.S., it is a viable religion that has been recognized and protected by the Supreme Court of the United States.
Yes, I do believe that everything has a dark side. But to lead people to believe that Santeria condones human sacrifice and makes human sacrifice a part of its rituals is very misleading, irresponsible and dangerous. I include dangerous because the practioners of the religion are already greatly misunderstood and persecuted for their beliefs.
Peace,
Scott |
Author: david rhea
Friday, 25 January 2002 - 02:56 pm | |
| Satanism is also protected. |
Author: Robert Maloney
Friday, 25 January 2002 - 03:25 pm | |
And the slaughter of animals for "religious" purposes IS black magic.
Rob |
Author: Scott E. Medine
Friday, 25 January 2002 - 03:39 pm | |
Yeah ok hot shots. What ever. I guess all religions were black magic at one point. And I guess I am in good company as this makes the religion professors and scholars wrong also. But then again this about the norm for the board.
Peace,
Scott |
Author: david rhea
Friday, 25 January 2002 - 03:40 pm | |
| Not black magic,; all I am saying is there is a dark side to most any religion. no matter how few or many practice it.This is true. Now if there is only one authority on any subject, there is no need for us to be here, because in this subject there are many foremost authorities.To state a fact about the Murders in Matamoros is not attacking a religion. |
Author: david rhea
Friday, 25 January 2002 - 03:47 pm | |
| What do you mean-"this about the norm for the board"? |
Author: Robert Maloney
Friday, 25 January 2002 - 04:06 pm | |
When a person slaughters a living thing, human or animal, for the selfish purpose of "control", they are practicing black magic. If the intent of the person performing an animal sacrifice has nothing to do with harming another human being, that does not conveniently ignore the fact that harm has been done to an innocent animal. What separates white from black magic is the intent to do harm.
Rob |
Author: david rhea
Friday, 25 January 2002 - 05:48 pm | |
| I was not intentionally arguing pro or con about someones religious leanings.I was saying that there is a side of those rituals whose main interest is power and control over others whether its love potions or counteracting a curse.I believe that this black magic approach is as novel way to look at the JTR murders. Maybe I was too obscure.Ivor Edwards new book deals with this subject, and to me it is interesting.I was not insulting anyone nor looking for an insult(such as this is about norm for the board-if that's what it means). |
Author: Robert Maloney
Friday, 25 January 2002 - 06:58 pm | |
I was certainly not intending to insult anyone. And I agree the Ripper murders involved black magic ritual. In fact, I have argued that point from my very first post. This really shouldn't be so surprising, given that many people in 1888 thought spirits existed all around them and in the organs of their bodies as well. To me anyway, the evidence for a satanic conspiracy seems overwhelming.
Rob |
Author: david rhea
Friday, 25 January 2002 - 07:58 pm | |
| Thats what I think. Glad to hear from an ally.I was not speaking of you. |
