Author: Ivor Edwards
Friday, 16 March 2001 - 08:18 pm |        |
| Hi David, I do believe the man in the doorway was D'Onston not only because he smoked a pipe.His height was down as 5'10"-11" if my memory serves me right,Hair light Brown,Type of felt hat worn by D'Onston. Age is 35 which is young for D'Onston.But I know of a case on record where a suspect walked up to a witness and stood looking him in the face and said, "Take a F*****G good look". The witness replied, " I will". In court the witness said the suspect was 21 when in fact he was 35. |
Author: Alkhemia
Friday, 16 March 2001 - 09:01 pm | |
Hello Ivor:
Thank you for the clarification and I understand the point you were trying to make.
I realize that Jack took two uteri from the victims for God-knows-what purposes - but I don't believe they were taken for use with the Goetia. I have a microfilm of Sloane MSS. 3825 and 2731 from the British Museum and I can say that the use of organs was not traditionally associated with that particular ritual. This is just academic, but someone mentioned that you were in the process of writing a book, so I thought I would point that out.
I believe it was Alegria who asked the question about the 72 benign spirits - but your lack of interest in the Golden Dawn and Crowley is duly noted by me. :-)
As an aside, lest anyone think I'm some demonologist or (heaven forbid!) "black magacian" - I'm just a scholar who collects old books and manuscripts. :-) (One of these days, I'll learn how to make the little smiley-face icon)
Alkhemia |
Author: Martin Fido
Friday, 16 March 2001 - 09:07 pm | |
Hi Alkhemia,
I take it you'r familiar with the reason for introducing these fringe grups nto Ripper discussion at all? That the Donston story alleges that the Ripper was a Black Magician - occultist - call it what you will - who carried out the murder as part of a ritual aimed at winning himself the gift of invisibility? And that Crowley, himself too young to have had any part at all in the Whitechapel murders, made notes showing that he had heard the story from Victoria Cremmers, and personally discounted it, though others who came under his influence repeated it?
Hi Ivor,
Again, I loom forward to seeingth details of the various reports on the man with the pipe. In thinking Kosminski might have been Stride's assailant, without necessarily committing the other murders, you follow a line of thought Paul Begg has considered (as one of several possibilities). I seem to remember noticing Kosminsky the baker in Berner Street
in one of my trawls through records, but I don't believe there was any connection. Again, Paul B has done more work thananyone else on teh ramifications of aaron's family in the East End.
All the best
Martin F |
Author: stephen stanley
Saturday, 17 March 2001 - 12:44 am | |
Just a Thought..I wonder it Schwartz just went past his new(unfamiliar)address as he was more concerned with the man he thought was following him?
Steve S. |
Author: The Viper
Saturday, 17 March 2001 - 07:29 am | |
Twenty-eight year old Maurice Kosminski, born in Poland and describing himself as a "Baker (shop)master", was living at no. 70 Berner Street at the time of the 1891 Census. With him were his wife Rebecca (26 years), son Israel (7) and daughter Betsy (1). Not only is this is after the date of the Seaside Home identification, but a young family man with a moderately responsible job doesn't sound at all like the descriptions of Kosminski normally offered. It clearly isn't the same man. Any family link between Kosminski the baker and Kosminski the suspect needs to be proven beyond doubt before capital is made out of it. A coincidence of surname is not sufficient.
Regards, V. |
Author: Martin Fido
Saturday, 17 March 2001 - 07:45 am | |
Alkhemia -
When I juxtaposed a colon [:] and a closing parenthesis [)] without the intervening hypen [-] to make a nose, Spryder's wonderful occult machinery produced a little smiley face in my favourite colour when it finally set up my posting. 
Now how do people make the open-mouthed laugh? let alone the wonderful jigging cheerleader?
Martin F |
Author: John Omlor
Saturday, 17 March 2001 - 08:14 am | |
Hi Martin,
To pick and choose from a wonderful array of clipart options, click on "Formatting" from the border options on the left, then click on "Other Formatting." This will take you to a list of four options. Choose "Images, Attachments, and Clipart." And then, in the "clipart" box in the table that appears, click on "index." That'll give you Stephen's impressive list of options.
(I would have made a lousy tech-writer.)
Have a great weekend,
--John |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Saturday, 17 March 2001 - 08:40 am | |
Dear John,
I can only shake my head in wonder! All this time
"Oz" is staring me in the face...I'm counting sheep 'n stars, and you bright young things are counting pixels. Strewth!
Rosemary |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Saturday, 17 March 2001 - 12:21 pm | |
Hello Alkhemia,
Thank you for your post, I am most grateful to you for pointing out that the Goetic
Circle of Black Evocations and Pacts does not specify the use of organs traditionally
associated with that particular ritual. It does specify “two candles of human fat set in black
wooden candlesticks, carved in the shape of a crescent.” It also includes “ a copper vase
containing the blood of the victim.” Now, I realise that the uterus is a muscle but I also
know that it contains fat and that some Black Magic rituals require the uterus to be used
in making magic candles. There are classes of rituals that seem to have a lot in common
but differ from each other in special details. There is no such thing as a hard and fast set of
rules which circumscribe rituals for all magic, all peoples, at all times and in all places.
There is great flexibility even if the objectives are the same. I certainly am interested in
your views on this. The bottom line here is that there is a correlation between what he
took from the victims and occult rituals. I have contacted National Heath Service Direct
and have been told that while the uterus is muscle it does contain a certain amount of fat.
In your opinion, Alkhemia, is it incorrect of me to use the Goetic circle as an example?
Also, am I wrong to state that the candles used in the Goetic circle can be made from the
uterus depending on the person using the ritual? Martin informed you that the D’Onston
story alleges that the Ripper was a black magician who carried out the murders as part of
a ritual aimed at winning himself the gift of invisibility. Crowley started this story and I
must stress to you that the story involving invisibility was concocted by him after hearing
a story from Cremers who made no mention of an invisible killer. Crowley twisted the
truth while adding diabolical lies. What Crowley stated in respect of an invisible killer
should be given no credence whatsoever. Crowley simply heard a story from Cremers and
twisted it to serve his own purposes; a wise person would do well to ignore his words
completely. We must make the distinction between the Harris/ Edwards D’Onston story,
and the Crowley/ D’Onston story. If it is any comfort to you I cannot make a smiley
yellow face icon the right way up I can only do a standard line sideways face, and I only
learned how to do that a few days ago. Can any one help Alkhemia and myself in this
respect :-). Out of interest what type of old books and manuscripts do you collect, do
you specialise or is it general material?
Martin, Thanks for the feedback on Kosminski. |
Author: Alkhemia
Saturday, 17 March 2001 - 02:52 pm | |
Martin and John:
Thank you both for the lesson in incorporating icons into messages. Now, I don't feel so left out in the dark. <-----hopefully, that worked!
Martin (or anyone else for that matter), are you familiar with an article that appeared in "The Independent-London" on Jan. 31, 1999 that suggests that JtR killed a boy in Hampshire? I know the article mentions D'Onston in some way, but every time I have tried to view the article, my web browser keeps locking up.
Alkhemia |
Author: Alkhemia
Saturday, 17 March 2001 - 03:43 pm | |
Dear Ivor:
After reading your post, I looked in a few books to ascertain where you were getting your information. Waite's "Book of Ceremonial Magick" (also called "Book of Black Magic and of Pacts") describes the use of a Goetic circle with a ritual from the Grand Grimoire. The illustration of the Goetic Circle you are talking about appears to have originated with Eliphaz Levi.
As I am sure you know, there is a grimoire called the Goetia and I was assuming that you were talking about that particular book. Levi (and apparently Waite) lumped all kinds of sorcery/black magic together under the term "goetia" - which, in my humble opinion, is as misleading as calling *all* cars Fords. The circle that you are talking about is a composite drawn up by Levi to represent all "goetic magic" instead of illustrating one particular formulae (e.g., for invisibility, finding gold, etc.).
You are correct when you say that all the rituals have some commonalities and some differences with regard to the small details. You get rituals that use different circles, different implements and they often specify things that are nearly impossible for the magician to do (e.g., take the hair off a dead man who has been killed in the hour of Mercury when Leo is rising and you are standing on your head). All these grimoires say that you must do every single step as it is written or you will suffer dire consequences - your magic will fail or Satan will devour you. That is why I tend to believe that anyone attempting these types of rituals would be very wary of "mixing and matching" and would tend to view the specific instructions in the grimoires with a type of superstitious awe.
Trying to tie D'Onston into a specific ritual might get a bit tricky. Crowley (who, as you say, must be taken with a mountain of salt) says that D'Onston killed seven women so that "their bodies formed a Calvary cross of seven points with its head to the west." I've looked at the murder sites on the map of the East End and I don't see how they form a "Calvary cross" or any other significant shape. If D'Onston took organs from women for a ritualistic purpose, it is more likely that he devised the ritual on his own rather than using anything from the grimoires that were floating around at that time. Unless he was adept at reading Latin, French or German it is highly unlikely that he got his hands on a "secret" manuscript that hadn't already been translated into English.
I actually collect all kinds of books - but mostly religious/philosophical. Since my degree is in Classics with an emphasis upon ancient Greece, I mostly have books relating to Greek philosophy.
Alkhemia |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Saturday, 17 March 2001 - 07:39 pm | |
Dear Alkhemia,
Why "72" degrees in this "Goetic circle"?
Rosemary |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Saturday, 17 March 2001 - 08:24 pm | |
Dear Alkhemia,
I tend to agree with you that he devised his own ritual. Trying to tie D'Onston down into specific areas is very hard going to say the least.I know what you mean about rituals that use different circles, different impliments and they often specify things that are nearly impossible to get.Four nails taken from the coffin of a executed criminal is one that comes to mind. To do this in the UK one would have to break into a prison where the condemmed are buried!God knows who thought this one up ! Interesting about the article in "The Independent- London " will check it out. Many thanks for you comments, Ivor. |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Saturday, 17 March 2001 - 09:07 pm | |
Dear Ivor,
Executed criminals in the British Isles did not have coffins...merely a shroud (hence,"the quick-lime on their boots", Oscar Wilde's BofRG).
Rosemary |
Author: Alkhemia
Saturday, 17 March 2001 - 09:31 pm | |
Rosemary:
I'm sorry, but a circle has 360 degrees - goetic or otherwise.
Alkhemia |
Author: Martin Fido
Saturday, 17 March 2001 - 10:29 pm | |
John - Many thanks for the direction to a wonderful set of images, indeed. When I've worked out how to get a backslash out of my keyboard (which gives me # on the key so marked; £ where it purports to have #,and in constant use, a transposition of @ and ") I shall use them with joy.
Martin |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Saturday, 17 March 2001 - 11:06 pm | |
Rosemary, Well if that be the case their task would be even more difficult:-)
Viper thanks for the Kosminski information. |
Author: Jon
Sunday, 18 March 2001 - 12:21 am | |
Rosemary
Executed criminals had no coffin?
We happen to have a resident professional on 'Bodysnatching' among our select group, in the shape of Martin F. and as I had never read of that little point of interest I wondered if Martin could confirm if that was true.
Just a quick glance through 'Lord High Executioner' will show a graphic detail from 1820 showing four criminals each on the end of a noose and five coffins lined up behind them, there's a body in one already.
Thanks, Jon |
Author: Martin Fido
Sunday, 18 March 2001 - 05:54 am | |
Jon - I'm unable to confirm or deny the point about criminals' coffins under the circs of Wilde's and the Ripper's time, when executions took place inside prison walls where the victims were also buried. Rosie may well be correct about their going down in uncased shrouds. In 1820 executions were public, and if the victim was not to be anatomized before burial, the body was handed over to friends or relatives who gave it normal burial in a coffin, which might, as you say, accompany the malefactor at the gallows. (And which might not protect him from winding up at Surgeons' Hall in any case. The skull of Jonathan Wild the Great, the Al Capone of Queen Anne's reign, is still to be seen in the Hunterian Collection at the Royal College of Surgeons, although his friends buried him safe and, as they hoped, deep enough, after he had been hanged).
Martin F |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Sunday, 18 March 2001 - 06:21 am | |
Dear Jon,
AFTER public executions (such jolly occassions!)
were abolished.
I have personally witnessed the burial of the condemned man at Leeds Gaol, aged 13 yrs! My incaceration at that age was against the law...
but for Rosemary, they invented a law.
Unrepentent
Rosemary |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Sunday, 18 March 2001 - 06:26 am | |
Dear Alkhemia,
As you can see...we don't move in the same circles
it seems :-)
Rosemary |
Author: Christopher T George
Sunday, 18 March 2001 - 07:05 am | |
Hi, all:
I should think that, as primitive as hygiene was in the Nineteenth Century, the gaolers would still know that it would be more hygienic to bury the executed criminal in a coffin than not. So my vote goes for a coffin than a shroud, as borne out by the illustration from Lord High Executioner cited by Jon which shows an 1820 execution with four criminals each on the end of a noose and five coffins lined up behind them, with a body already in one coffin. Possibly the notion of the executed criminal in the shroud is one of those "myths" that is handed down without a basis in reality?
Martin, in regards to clip art, rather than trying to duplicate the code manually, you might find it easier to cut and paste the code from the list of examples.
Just like the following one which several of us find appropriate for Melvin Harris’s bombast: 
Best regards
Chris George  |
Author: Martin Fido
Sunday, 18 March 2001 - 07:52 am | |
Chris
- I'm going to try it, and seee whether it produces a happy face in my favourite colour practising one of my preferred unhygeinic vices.
Now when I post this we'll find out whether it worked.
It did, It did! Hooray, and thank you!
Martin |
Author: Jon
Sunday, 18 March 2001 - 10:40 am | |
Rosemary
.....though I spent many a night in the backstreets of Leeds, my old stomping ground, I never saw the inside of the gaol.
Just browsing through 'A Century of Murder's' by Edgar Lustgarten, which shows a depiction of Dr Neil Cream in his coffin, Illustrated Police News, Nov. 19th 1892.
And the internment of Catherine Webster, into her grave in a box. IPN Aug 2nd, 1879.
And in Dec. 1909 an account of the execution of Abel Atherton (who murdered his landlady) happens to mention that the jury viewed his body "enclosed in a plain black deal coffin".
(Murders of the Black Museum, G. Honeycombe)
Now, I think we might imagine that a paupers burial may be without a coffin, like a pauper criminal.
But, on reading a Home Office memorandum dated 1949 which detailed the last days of a condemned man, I notice...
"Burial of the body takes place in the prison graveyard during the dinner hour. The chaplain reads the burial service. Burial within the prison precincts, where suitable space is strictly limited, gives rise to increasing difficulties. In some prisons bodies are already buried three deep..."
The above extract might lead us to imagine that due to lack of space they may be intered without a coffin, though it does not say that, this might inevitibly be the case for prison burials.
Thanks, Jon |
Author: Christopher T George
Sunday, 18 March 2001 - 10:56 am | |
Hi Jon:
Even the poor would have been buried in a plain wooden coffin.
Chris |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Sunday, 18 March 2001 - 12:17 pm | |
Dear Jon,
The condemned have no graveyard...and nobody to either mourn them or say a little prayer over a
hole in the middle of the exercise-yard.
As for those who grow old and die in the prison
'hospital', they were (once) interred in the prison grave-yard. Nowadays, its the public
incinerator.
Rosemary |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Sunday, 18 March 2001 - 07:11 pm | |
Dear Jon,
Besides Armley Gaol you would know of Eastmoor
Approved School, near Roundhay? You ain't me old China from Strangeways by any chance? :-))
No 333666
Rosemary |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Sunday, 18 March 2001 - 10:06 pm | |
Just a minor question. Is the illustration of
the five executions of 1820 from LORD HIGH
EXECUTIONER a picture of the executions of
Arthur Thistlewood and his four co-conspiritors
for the Cato Street Plot?
In John Laurence's A HISTORY OF CAPITAL PUNISHMENT
there is an illustration of the body of Laurence
Shirley, 4th Earl Ferrers, who was hanged for
killing his steward in 1760. His body is in
a coffin, but then he was a nobleman, and he
had been tried in the House of Lords, and he
was hanged with a silken rope.
Jeff |
Author: Martin Fido
Monday, 19 March 2001 - 06:36 am | |
Ivor - I've opened a serious discussion thread on Dr Donston on the unlikely 'Space Monkies' Board. I mention this here, because you might easily miss it.
All good wishes,
Martin F |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Monday, 19 March 2001 - 12:16 pm | |
I have been informed by an offical at Wandsworth
prison that the condemned were buried in a coffin in unconsecrated ground within the prison walls.Wandsworth prison was the only prison in England which retained the gallows after capital punishment was abolished. These gallows were kept on a 24 hour standby until 5 years ago when they were done away with. The hanging room is now the inmates TV room.Some inmates refuse to go into this room. I have in fact been into this room and also the room used for post mortems on the condemned.I have also seen the prison burial ground.I have also viewed photo collections of those convicted/unconvicted in the 19th century who were inmates at Reading Jail.Children included. |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Monday, 19 March 2001 - 12:19 pm | |
| I will check that out Martin all the best. |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Monday, 19 March 2001 - 12:41 pm | |
| Forgot to mention that the use of quick-lime on the condemned ceased in the 1920's. |
Author: Christopher T George
Monday, 19 March 2001 - 03:20 pm | |
Hi, Ivor:
Very interesting stuff about Wandsworth and other British prisons. If your book on D'Onston is as interesting and full of such similar, fascinating information, we are in for a treat. By the way, don't forget to send me a review copy of your book for Ripper Notes. As you know, I have a personal interest in D'Onston, who I view as an intriguing suspect, and I would love to review your book on him for our magazine. E-mail me privately about it if you wish. If by any chance the book is out this autumn by the time of the UK Ripper convention in Bournemouth, and you are there, I plan to be in attendance (to help put on a concert version of the musical I have written with Erik Sitbon, Jack--The Musical, and to meet the UK Ripper luminaries I have yet to meet) and you could actually hand it to me then. 
Best regards
Chris George
Co-Editor, Ripper Notes |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Monday, 19 March 2001 - 04:35 pm | |
Dear Ivor,
Some prisons have had their own grave-yard attached to the prison...outside. All land inside a prison with the exception of the chapel is by definition 'unconsecrated' ground, and due to the
ratio of buildings to available ground...the condemned are buried whereever available space permits...and at Armley Gaol they were up to seven
corpses deep around the inside perimeter wall. In other words, space is at a premium within the prison walls.
I saw a condemned man buried in a canvas shroud on
the execise-yard that we walked over within an hour of his burial...I doubt whether there are any men alive today in Britain's Prison Service
who have witnessed such a burial!I've heard plenty of such yarns from screws.
Incidentally, the 'hanging room' as you term it,
always turn out to be the Condemned Cell, a large
room for prisoner and two guards on 24hr watch. The real 'hanging-room' is much smaller and situated across from the Condemned Cell with a small metal shed attached to the outer room wall
for a small barrow to remove the corpse...hence,
the term 'topping shed'.
Hanging loose,
Rosemary |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Monday, 19 March 2001 - 06:28 pm | |
Hi Rose,
Some prisons had two cells knocked into one.As you say the condemned are in company with 2 prison staff prior to the execution. In Wandworth the hanging cell is located on No.1 landing.When the the trap is operated the prisoner
falls through to the ground floor.This ground floor near the centre is where the prison kitchens are to be found. The deceased is left hanging for a period of time.Then the Doctor checks the deceased. He is then taken down and taken to the post-mortem room. The layout can differ from prison to prison.In reading jail for example the "topping shed" was built on the side of the main prison building and was made of corrugated metal Sheeting.In many prisons including Wandsworth the condemned cell is next to the cell where the hanging takes place.The condemmed cell and the room where the hanging takes place in Wandsworth are two separate rooms connected by a door.Best wishes. |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Monday, 19 March 2001 - 06:35 pm | |
Hi Chris,
Thanks for the comments.Of course you can review my book.I want to try and get to the next convention I missed the last one.I will e-mail you tomorrow.Best Wishes. |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Saturday, 24 March 2001 - 01:44 pm | |
Was D’Onston fit enough to commit murder? The point has been made that the Whitechapel murders were more likely committed by a younger and fitter man than D’Onston. Also, he has been referred to as an alcoholic. I would like to address the question of how old and fit a killer needs to be. Jack’s victims were not strapping 6-foot dockworkers. They were prostitutes who were in the main,middle aged, of small stature, one of which was undernourished and weak (and, in fact,
dying). Jack was preying on weak and vulnerable targets. Mr Bean would have had no trouble in killing these victims. The oldest killer I ever met was approximately 65 years old, while the youngest were two boys, one of whom was aged 14. Both were small in stature and not strong but between them they managed to asphyxiate a grown man. Also, let us not forget that a
killer who uses the element of surprise on his victim has the advantage. In fact, many
strong and fit people have been murdered by a weaker adversary. John Wayne Gacy was not fit; he was middle aged, fat, he drank a lot and smoked pot. He also took amyl nitrate and valium, yet his victims were boys and fit young men aged 17, 18 and19. Gacy’s victims are estimated to number at least 33. Also, many serial killers excepting
paedophiles) kill within their own age bracket. Four of the five ripper victims were in the same age bracket as D’Onston. Cremers met D’Onston after the murders had occurred and described him as, “A man with military bearing suggesting power and strength. Tall with not an ounce of superfluous flesh upon him.” Cremers never made
mention of any connection in relation to D’Onston and drink in her memoirs. Marsh, who drank in the company of D’Onston, described him as a soaker and not a drunk. Even so, many murders have been committed by people in a drunken state. I met one middle-aged killer who had arrived home with his wife late at night after celebrating their wedding anniversary. He was the worse for drink. In the bedroom his wife made a fatal mistake. She told him that she was leaving him. He went into the bathroom, which was
undergoing renovation work and picked up a hammer. He went back into the bedroom and beat his wife to death. Aileen Wurnos was a prostitute who killed 7 of her male clients. To state that D’Onston was not capable of ommitting the murders because of age, drink or a feigned illness would be to underestimate the situation. Even if he had Neurosthenia (not to be confused with Neurasthenia-its opposite) he could still commit murder. |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Saturday, 24 March 2001 - 02:12 pm | |
Dear Ivor,
I would concur with you opinion regarding (1) the element of surprise, and (2), the determination of attack. Both are dealt with by that master of swordsmanship, M.Masushi, in his treatise, "Go Rin No Sho". The professional assassin/thieve's
'bible'...well, a rare few then?
It's a cracker :-)
Rosemary |
Author: Christopher T George
Saturday, 24 March 2001 - 04:08 pm | |
Hi, all:
I am glad that Ivor Edwards has addressed the point, "Was D’Onston fit enough to commit murder?"
I will admit here in this forum, as well as both in Ripper Notes and Ripperologist, in each of which I recently (in 1999) published articles about D'Onston, that I made a mistake about the condition from which this suspect suffered. In my article, "Letter from the Sickbed: D'Onston Writes to the Police," in Ripperologist, number 24, August 1999, pp. 22-23, I mislabeled the disease from which this suspect was said to have been suffering while he was a patient in London Hospital, Whitechapel, during 134 days in 1888, from the end of July to December, thus, interestingly, covering the entire time of the canonical murders.
Both Ivor Edwards, who will shortly lay out his case for Roslyn D'Onston as a suspect in his forthcoming book, and the redoubtable Melvin Harris, who has published three books in which he discusses D'Onston as Jack the Ripper, have pointed out this error to me, so an erratum is due. Sack cloth & ashes time coming up. . . .
Melvin and Ivor have correctly pointed out to me that while he was a patient at the London Hospital in 1888, Major (or Dr.) Robert D'Onston Stephenson, also known as Roslyn D'Onston, was diagnosed not with neurasthenia, as I erroneously stated, but with neurosthenia. These names are confusing in being nearly identical in spelling but that is no excuse for my error. I admit I shold have been more careful in dismissing the suspect on the basis of the diagnosed disease which I identified incorrectly. Neurasthenia, the disease I wrongly named in my article, is lassitude or lack of energy while neurosthenia, the condition the suspect is said to have had, is nervous energy and a condition involving anxiety which can cause sleeplessness.
As promised, Ivor, I herewith issue an apology to you and Melvin about my incorrect and misleading statement. Ivor, I greatly look forward to the publication of your book and to further discussion of this most interesting suspect. For, unlike the vast majority of named suspects, D'Onston, whatever anyone says about him, was provably in Whitechapel during the time of the murders and thus no "contrived scenarios" are needed to place him near the scene of the crimes.
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Saturday, 24 March 2001 - 06:09 pm | |
Hi chris,Thanks for the comments.In fact I made the same mistake myself. Looking through my notes I noticed that once I wrote, Neurasthenia instead of, Neurosthenia.It is such a simple mistake to make. Best wishes.
Dear Rose, sounds like an interesting Book. |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Saturday, 24 March 2001 - 07:38 pm | |
Dear Ivor,
Miyamoto MUSASHI...if that does'nt unline the importance of vowels...English title, A Book of Five Rings, (1645).
"To Pass On
Many things are said to be passed on. Sleepiness can be passed on, and yawning can be passed on,
laughter can be passed on...time can be passed on.
Many things can be passed on in many secret ways.
This is the strategy of the Void."
Samor Rye ! |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Saturday, 24 March 2001 - 09:51 pm | |
A joint can be passed on, which can leave a void.
A question can be passed on.
I dont think a prison sentence can be passed on.
Veneral disease can be passed on.
Many things can be passed on in various ways.
Sorry Rosemary, my humour got the better of me.:-)
Any interesting info on occult ritual murder! |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Sunday, 25 March 2001 - 05:07 am | |
| Dear Rosemary, Reading your 5 circles and, 'To pass on' rang a bell. So I looked up some Sacred Geometry symbols. One is a circle named 'Pass not'. Best wishes. |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Sunday, 25 March 2001 - 05:13 pm | |
Dear Ivor,
Can't say I have come across ritual human sacrifice...as yet. You could try The Patristic Gospels! Headlines: "Ex cop sets out on the road to Damascus...Will he nail his man?!" I will let you know, ASAP...
Mora R Yes.
:-) |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Sunday, 25 March 2001 - 07:01 pm | |
Dear Ivor,
The Cuisine of Sacrifice Among the Greeks, by M.
Detienne & J-P Vernant. Chicago UP.,(1989). Very interesting.
Have you got anybody in mind?
Roy Mares? |
Author: Caroline Anne Morris
Monday, 26 March 2001 - 04:04 am | |
Hi All,
Neurasthenia means nervous debility.
neur or neuro is the nervous bit, then astheneia is the Greek for weakness. The only spelling allowed for in my Chambers is neurasthenia. But I would imagine if the word has also understandably been spelled neuroasthenia, the misspelling neurosthenia would be a common one.
But it would appear that all three are variants of the same word and the same condition, except that it seems that the term was misapplied as often as it was misspelled, and ended up covering a multitude of psychoneurotic conditions. (See Paul Begg's post on D'Onston's board.) So it was presumably possible for one person to display symptoms such as nervous excitement and sleeplessness, while another was being all lethargic and weak, yet both be diagnosed under the misused and generic banner of neurasthenia. Which would make it rather difficult to ascertain what really ailed D'Onston, wouldn't it?
Love,
Caz |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Monday, 26 March 2001 - 06:55 am | |
Dear Caroline,
Rather odd condition for such an odd character, anyway? Was there anything 'wrong' with him, one must ask?
Rosemary |
