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** This is an archived, static copy of the Casebook messages boards dating from 1998 to 2003. These threads cannot be replied to here. If you want to participate in our current forums please go to https://forum.casebook.org **
Chapman, George (a.k.a. Severin Klosowski)
Casebook Message Boards: Ripper Suspects: Specific Suspects:
Contemporary Suspects [ 1888 - 1910 ]:
Chapman, George (a.k.a. Severin Klosowski)
Author: Stewart P Evans
Thursday, 25 January 2001 - 12:22 pm |        | Chris,
Many thanks for that, I will be interested to hear what you make of it. I do know that one or two people already have the book but I have seen no review of it yet, and Mr. Gordon has not appeared on these boards since publishing.
Best Wishes,
Stewart |
Author: Stephen P. Ryder
Thursday, 25 January 2001 - 08:24 pm | | Hi Stewart,
I received a review copy some weeks ago and posted my thoughts under "Ripper Media: Non-Fiction". Reproduced below:
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Alias Jack the Ripper: Beyond the Usual Whitechapel Suspects
R. Michael Gordon
McFarland Publishers, 2001. ISBN 0-7864-0898-7
363pp., photo, maps, chronology, bib, index.
$39.95 sofcover
R. Michael Gordon, known to many who frequent the Casebook's message boards, has recently released his book-length study of the Whitechapel Murders, entitled Alias Jack the Ripper: Beyond the Usual Whitechapel Suspects. This is the second Ripper release from McFarland publishers, the first being Coville and Lucanio's Jack the Ripper: His Life and Crimes in Popular Entertainment.
Gordon's candidate for the Ripper is Severin Klosowski, also known as George Chapman. Klosowksi was touted as a Ripper suspect as early as 1903, at the time of his arrest on charges of poisoning his late wife, by none other than Inspector Abberline himself. Although Abberline later added that "Scotland Yard is really no wiser on the subject than it was fifteen years ago", this appears to be the "clincher", in Gordon's view, that Chapman was indeed the killer.
Alias Jack the Ripper begins with an introduction to the crimes and an overview of Klosowski's early life in Warsaw. From there Gordon covers all the Whitechapel murders (and a number of others) in great detail. His accounts are both comprehensive and insightful, with numerous press clipping interspersed throughout the text to provide additional details and commentary. Apart from the canonical five, Gordon also covers the Rainham Torso, Annie Millwood, Ada Wilson, Emma Smith, Martha Tabram, The Whitehall Torso, Rose Mylett, Alice McKenzie, Frances Coles, The Pinchin Street Torso, Carrie Brown, and more. While not specifically stating the Chapman was the killer in each of these cases, Gordon seems to suggest that in each case, he could have been. And indeed, as in most Ripper books, there are a myriad of "could haves" used in Alias Jack the Ripper to stretch possibilities and open doors for Klosowski to be available at any given crime scene. For example, Gordon questions the accuracy of a census report which places Klosowski in London on 5 April 1891, apparently conflicting with Gordon's opinion that by then he was in New York, about to commit the Carrie Brown murder:
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Quote:
"A second major date is April 5, 1891, which was the day of the National Census. In that census, Klosowski and his wife Lucy were reported to have been living at 2 Tewkesbury Buildings, Whitechapel. But is this oft-quoted information correct? The census taken on that date does place them living at that London address at that time, but there is no way of knowing how accurate the census takers were in recording the information. Did they actually speak with Klosowski and his wife at their home, or did they simply report on what others told them about who lived there? In other words, Klosowski and his wife could have moved before the census was taken.
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This is typical of the "evidence" Gordon tends to offer in order to place Klosowski at any given crime scene on any given date. Is it possible that the census made a mistake? Sure, anything is possible. Is it probable? No.
Logical criticism aside, Alias Jack the Ripper is still an above-average Ripper book. When he isn't trying to place Chapman at every unsolved murder scene between 1875 and 1903, Gordon spends an impressive amount of time covering all the salient aspects of the case, and provides a depth of detail not present in the large majority of books on the subject. His overviews of the murders are well-researched and comprehensive, with a great deal of previously-unpublished press material provided for additional contemporary flavor. There are also numerous illustrations found within the text, including copies of complete police reports and internal memos not found elsewhere.
As an overview to the Whitechapel murders, Gordon's study remains a cut above the rest. Although his arguments suggesting Klosowski as the Ripper fail to convince, the book is well-written and handsomely produced, and is sure to be remembered as one of the better independently-published Ripper books of the past decade.
The book can be ordered on Amazon.Com at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0786408987/casebookjackth01A/ or Amazon.co.UK at: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0786408987/casebojacktherip
You can also order it directly from the publisher:
McFarland & Co Inc., Publishers
Box 611
Jefferson, NC 28640
U.S.A.
TEL: 800.253.2187 | 336.246.4460
FAX: 336.246.5018
http://www.mcfarlandpub.com |
Author: Ashling
Tuesday, 30 January 2001 - 08:13 am | | Hi everyone. STEPHEN: I read your fair-minded review when you first posted--it was much appreciated. CHRIS: I look forward to reading your review soonest.
STEWART: With some of us, it's not lack of interest, but rather lack of funds. Sadly, I usually get my JtR books second-hand or through the library. As I frequently corresponded with Michael when he posted on these boards regularly, I would love to read and evaluate his book on Chapman/Klosowski hot off the press, but my budget says otherwise.
Also, some confusion exists on the availability of Alias Jack the Ripper. Surfing the net gave these results for online buying:
Amazon.com = Published Dec. 2000. On back order ... Ships in 3-5 weeks.
Barnes & Nobles = In stock ... Ships within 2-3 days. (Lists the Table of Contents.)
Books-A-Million = In stock ... Ships within 2-3 days.
Borders.com = To be published May 2001 ... May place advance order.
Amazon.com.uk = Not yet published ... May place advance order.
McFarland & Co., Inc. Publishers = Publication date 2001 (no month given).
I might think the first few resources refer to a hardback edition and the last few to a paperback, but all the above list the book as being a paperback edition. This confusion might explain why Alias Jack the Ripper isn't available at my local library yet. The Ultimate Jack the Ripper Companion is available at the library ... but I posted more on that on the appropriate board.
Take care,
Ashling |
Author: Anthony Green
Wednesday, 14 March 2001 - 06:01 pm | | Hi, all.
Chapman has seemed to me a just-about plausible Ripper-suspect when compared to other suspects because, from a time when serial killers were apparently not so common as they are now, we at least know that he was one. But as Philip Sugden said in his famous book, the direct evidence is zero and, as a candidate for the Ripper, he is just the best of a bad bunch. To my mind R. Michael Gordon´s interesting book on balance makes Chapman´s candidacy rather more likely - on the whole he is shown to have been able to have been in the right places at the right times and there appears to be no evidence that would definitely put him somewhere else; however, the matter is far from decided.
Another recent publication of very great interest is the article by Michael Conlon on "A tale of two ´Frenchys´" in Ripperana 34 (October 2000), pp. 1-10. This recounts the case of the muder of Carrie Brown in New York in April 1891 and rediscovers one Arbie La Bruckman, aka John Francis, arrested in New Jersey a few days later. Conlon uncovers a report that La Bruckman admitted that he had earlier been arrested (indeed "tried") in Britain as the Whitechapel Murderer. From the evidence of the article it seems very likely that La Bruckman was the killer of Carrie Brown (though the determination of the NYPD to press ahead with the trial of another man on whom they had already pinned the murder led to La Bruckman´s release). His earlier arrest as the Whitechapel Mudererer, therefore, is most telling.
The connexion with New York and New Jersey also seems suggestive. If one compares the 1891 picture of Arbie La Bruckman alias John Francis reproduced on p. 29 of Ripperana 34 and the famous photograph of Severin Klosowski alias George Chapman taken around 1900 (e.g., on p. 258 of R.M. Gordon´s book), there seems to be quite a resemblance. Is it possible that La Bruckman/Francis and Klosowski/Chapman are one and the same?
I would be interested to hear any thoughts or reactions.
Tony |
Author: Kevin Fountoukidis
Thursday, 07 June 2001 - 03:51 am | | Hello
I am a Polish based businessman and I have been thinking of financing some research into Chapman's life in Poland before he arrived in England.
I am interested whether the experts on these message boards have any particular interest in Chapman, what threads would you like to see followed, what we should look for in order to strengthen or weaken Chapman as a Ripper suspect.
I am not a Chapmanite (if such people exist), I am just interested in the case and I happen to be in Poland, so I have access to information, and I believe what this case really needs is as much complete accurate information as possible. If I can help add information to support or refute Chapman as a suspect I think that is valuable.
Kevin |
Author: Eduardo Zinna
Thursday, 07 June 2001 - 07:05 am | | Hello Kevin,
You may wish to start with Philip Sugden's 'The Complete History of Jack the Ripper', which names Chapman/Klosowski as the Ripper. Sugden has very little information on Chapman in Poland, but at least gives you the framework for your research.
Good luck!
Eduardo |
Author: Kevin Fountoukidis
Thursday, 07 June 2001 - 05:20 pm | | Hi Eduardo
I have read it. It is an excellent book. I don't think Sugden named Chapman as the Ripper, but rather "the least unlikely" of the suspects he profiles. As I mentioned above, I am not a proponent of Chapman, but I think his life before England might be of interest (and certainly would be if we found something out about his childhood, or any dirty deeds done in his viscinity in his youth, or maybe we would find out that he came to England too late to be Jack). I am curious as to whether anybody has done any research in Poland on Chapman.
Kevin |
Author: Jon
Thursday, 07 June 2001 - 07:11 pm | | Kevin
All researchers should be interested in futhering the field of knowledge on the main characters.
Chapman, Tumblety & D'Onston are possibly the three most interesting characters in this drama and presently I think they all could provide an entertaining movie subject.
If you can seek out anything further on Chapman we would all appreciate it, even though most of us don't think he was the killer either, he was certainly an interesting character.
Regards, Jon |
Author: Kevin Fountoukidis
Friday, 08 June 2001 - 02:53 am | | Hi Jon
Even though I am a businessman I am not thinking about the commercial value of what we could dig up here in Poland. I am facinated with the Ripper story and I see this as a possible area where I could make a contribution.
As far as you know, has there been any research done in Poland on Chapman?
Kevin |
Author: Eduardo Zinna
Friday, 08 June 2001 - 11:54 am | | Dzien Dobry, pan Kevin,
Of course you are right about Sugden mentioning Chapman as the least unlikely suspect. It has been said his publishers urged him to identify a suspect as that would be good for sales.
Personally, I've never heard about research being carried out in Poland. Obviously, you might get lucky, since he came from a rural area. Public archives in Warsaw were pretty much done away with during the war. So anything you can do would be much appreciated by everyone.
By the way, do you speak Polish? Your name doesn't look Polish to me.
Do widzenia
Eduardo |
Author: Kevin Fountoukidis
Friday, 08 June 2001 - 12:38 pm | | Czesc Eduardo!
I speak fluent Polish, but I am not Polish, I have been living in Poland for 10 years (the name is Greek but I was born in the US, strange combination, eh?).
A friend of mine is a British historian and he lives here in Poland and I was thinking of hiring him to do the research. As far as records are concerned, most local municipalities have their records from before the war. I am not sure about Warsaw.
I was thinking of sending my friend to England first, to start with, to collect all available primary information on Chapman and from there I thought he would follow the trail back to Poland. Since he is British and is fluent in Polish and has extensive research experience (and has an interest in the Ripper) I thought he would be an excellent candidate to do such research.
I would love to hear from some of the other esteemed experts on these boards as to their opinions of the value of Polish based research into Chapman.
I am inclined to go ahead with it.
Regards
Kevin |
Author: Christopher T George
Friday, 08 June 2001 - 02:16 pm | | Hi, Kevin:
The information on Chapman's Polish background in Sugden all seems to be from Chapman's trial so I should think if documents still exist in Poland that mention him you might find a rich mine of information. You may be aware of the recent book Alias Jack the Ripper in which author R. Michael Gordon discusses Chapman as a Ripper suspect. I am not aware of what information Gordon may have obtained in Poland. While I have not read his book, the impression I get is that much of his information also came from Chapman's trial and the statements by Hargrave Adam in the introduction to the transcript of the Chapman trial in the "Great British Trials" series.
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: Jon
Friday, 08 June 2001 - 06:01 pm | | If thats the case Chris (no pun intended) then Gordon's data is 70 yrs old at least.
Chapmans trial was published in the 30's as part of the 'Notable British Trials' series.
Regards, Jon |
Author: Christopher T George
Friday, 08 June 2001 - 06:08 pm | | Hi, Jon:
Yes you are correct, 71 years old in fact. I am talking about H. L. Adam, ed., Trial of George Chapman (Edinburgh & London, 1930).
Best regards
Chris |
Author: Kevin Fountoukidis
Saturday, 09 June 2001 - 12:56 am | | Hello Chris
I've just ordered Gordon's book off Amazon. Obviously we'll see if he has any Polish based sources and we can check those out and determine how exhaustive he was. If it turns out that the only data available on Chapman is from his trial, then I think that would be quite encouraging. On the other hand we may find very little remaining with regard to public records in Poland. Still, I am moderately optimistic and either way it is quite a fun project.
One thought that I have had is this. Since Chapman was a serial killer, we of course may dig up some information from his past that would confirm such tendencies but that wouldn't bring us any closer to anything because we already know this. It seems that the only type of information of value would be that we could find some violence with a knife, or similar killings, or violence against prostitutes, or anything that would be more similar to the Ripper killings than poisoning women who were married to him. On the flip side it would be also be valuable if we could find information eliminating him as a suspect such as, he left Poland too late to be Jack, or that women in his viscinity were poisoned in a similar way (he couldn't really go from poisoner-slasher-poisoner, could he?)
What we will probably find was that he had 5 other wives in Poland. He wasn't much of a monogamist was he? He got married and couldn't stand the lady after awhile and probably found murder to be the most convenient way out. Doesn't much fit what I picture Jack to be like, but still, let's first see what Gordon's sources were and then we'll see if we can't dig anything new up.
Kevin |
Author: Christopher T George
Saturday, 09 June 2001 - 05:33 am | | Hi, Kevin:
R. Michael Gordon has hinted that Chapman (Klosowski) murdered his mother while in Poland. In a post on this board of Thursday, March 25, 1999 at 3:32 pm, he stated, "I am looking for a copy of Klosowski's mother's death certificate. The date and cause will be MOST interesting. If she was murdered in 1887..."
In a post of Friday, March 26, 1999 at 2:51 pm, Gordon answered queries from Peter Birchwood and myself about this line of enquiry and about whether he thought Klosowski's mother died in Poland or England. After saying that Peter was correct that there is no evidence his mother came to England, he stated: "I am looking in Poland for her certificate if it still exists. I have no data as of this time of her ever leaving Russian occupied Poland and coming to England. Again, IF his mother was murdered just before he came to England it would be one more nail in his Ripper coffin. And if she was killed with a knife.....! It is only an avenue of investigation at this time."
I don't know whether or not he ultimately located the death certificate or, indeed, if there is any proof that his mother was murdered. Again, though I have not read Gordon's book, I do know sufficient about his theory and approach to know that it is written using the speculation that Chapman committed murders wherever he went. So if this theory has merit, one would, as you say, expect to find other murders of women in Poland that could be associated with him.
I am curious to know how a Greek-American finds himself in Poland. I am myself British but live in the United States. A crazy mixed-up world isn't it, Kevin?
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: Wolf Vanderlinden
Saturday, 09 June 2001 - 12:53 pm | | R. Michael Gordon seems to not have done any research in Poland in regards to Klosowski. All information about Klosowski's years in Poland come from the few documents found with him when he was arrested in October of 1902. As has been mentioned, this information comes from Hargrave's volume, The Trial of George Chapman, which was published in 1930.
The last piece of Polish documentation that Klosowski kept with him for all those years stated that on February 28, 1887, he had paid to the Treasurer of the Warsaw Society of Assistant Surgeons, his hospital fees of four rubles per month and that he was thus paid up till March 3, 1887. Gordon, and others, have suggested that Klosowski may therefore have left for England sometime soon after this date, (March to June, 1887). The problem with this is that, according to this document, Klosowski's hospital fees were paid up in full for the next 3 days! It is apparent that there was some slip of the pen, either in Poland or in Hargrave's manuscript and that Klosowski may have paid up till March 3, 1888 thus muddying the time when he may have left for England.
IMHO, the most important information that can be gleaned from Polish sources would be the exact date that Klosowski left Poland, as this is now unknown. Further study might be along the lines of what exactly was the depth of training for a Junior Surgeon in Warsaw in the late 1880's. Also why did Klosowski leave Poland, was he on the run or simply looking for greener pastures?
Wolf. |
Author: Peter R.A. Birchwood
Saturday, 09 June 2001 - 12:54 pm | | Chris:
I have doubts about R. Michael's research on Chapman. I gave him the name of a researcher in Poland who could assist but I never heard the outcome. (If you're reading this R. Michael, where's the signed copy of the book you promised in return for copies of the victim's death records?)
I'm just working on a Polish case and the records, considering the march of armies over Polish soil, are in surprisingly good condition although you do have to know the town where the event took place. I suspect that Chapman's murders were always economic rather than for fun and I doubt whether he killed 5 persons before he came to England. |
Author: Kevin Fountoukidis
Sunday, 10 June 2001 - 07:06 am | | Hello All
This is exactly the type of insight I was hoping to receive. I am happy to hear that the main source of information on Severin/George is "The Trial of George Chapman." Where can I get a copy of that publication? Anyone know? That publication would be a great basis for the beginning of the search. In fact it might save us time. If that is the only real available source of information on Chapman then all we need is that, I guess studying public records in England wouldn't be much help, it would have to be included in the facts surrounding his trial. Or maybe I am wrong? I am not a researcher.
Thanks Wolf! Very good ideas on what to follow-up. I am doubtful that we will find anything sinister about Severin/George, but establishing the facts is the point here. It must be easy enough to establish what the fees were and how often they were collected, as well as what one was taught as a junior surgeon. With regard to the fact that he paid his monthly fees for only 3 days, is it possible that he was paying his fees for the month of February and not in advance for the month of March?
There is also the issue of how well he was able to speak English when he arrived in England. I wonder if medical literature back then was in English (as is still the case today, most Polish doctors speak English because of the medical literature).
Peter, I agree that Severin is not likely to be Jack. I did not mean to suggest that he killed 5 wives before he came to England (having one wife at the ripe age of 22 is a lot, nevermind poisoning her), I was being sarcastic.
Chris as far as how I ended up where I am it is the classic story of how a man meets a woman, falls in love, gets married, sets up a couple success businesses, gets a bit bored and tries to have a little fun by searching for the identity of JtR (or at least adding info about one of the main suspects).
Cheers
Kevin |
Author: Christopher T George
Sunday, 10 June 2001 - 08:48 am | | Hi, Kevin:
Good luck to you in your research and in your new life in Poland! If you call up the ABE books site at http://whipper.abebooks.com/abep/il.dll and punch up "Trial of George Chapman" there should be at any one time a number of copies of the book available from different booksellers worldwide. Five copies were listed when I looked just now. The benefit of the ABE books site is that you can find a copy that best suits your budget.
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: Kevin Fountoukidis
Sunday, 10 June 2001 - 11:24 am | | Great Chris
Thanks. I ordered it.
My life in Poland is not that new considering I have been living here for 10 years.
I look forward to reading up on Severin. It should be fun.
Kevin |
Author: Christopher T George
Sunday, 10 June 2001 - 12:04 pm | | Hi Kevin:
Yes I realize you have been in Poland for ten years. Maybe I should have said your comparatively new life in Poland!  Glad to hear that you have ordered the Hargrave Adam book on Chapman's trial. Keep us posted on your findings in Poland. It should be fascinating to see what you find out.
All the best
Chris |
Author: Martin Fido
Thursday, 14 June 2001 - 07:04 am | | Hi Kevin,
All strength to your proposed work. Just one word of warning: if you use the Notable Trials as a main source, bear in mind that this series was NOT (as many people imagine) a reprint from official trial transcripts. The publisher collected a huge range of newspaper reports and sent them to the editor/compilers from which they put together their text. In those days the papers gave much fuller accounts of what was actually said in murder trials. And to get a clearer view of Abberline's opinion that Godley had 'got Jack the Ripper at last' you need to look at the interviews he gave to the Pall Mall Gazette after Chapman's trial.
All good wishes,
Martin F |
Author: Kevin Fountoukidis
Thursday, 14 June 2001 - 08:52 am | | Hi Martin
Thanks for the advice. Are the trial records accessible at the Public Record Office in London? That is really a useful tip because I did assume that the book I purchased was based on the transcripts (although I haven't received it yet). It seems I should return to my original plan of starting the search in London.
As I mentioned a couple of times I am not a proponent of Chapman and so I don't have any particular feelings either way about Abberline's comments. Still though, I am interested, are you suggesting that the context of Abberline's statement has been misrepresented somehow? I don't know much about it and am just curious. I have never attached much weight to Abberline's statement. The issue with Chapman is could he change his MO and was the Ripper someone who could have several relationships with women (or even one?). Also I agree with Peter who stated above that Chapman seemed to be murdering for money.
In my opinion the Ripper was developing his taste for it and he was enjoying it and he wasn't going to stop until he got caught (isn't that what happens in modern times). I like simple solutions. Maybe he just died, dropped dead of a heart attack, got hit in the head by a falling brick, got run over by a horse, etc. I doubt very much that he is on anyone's list of suspects. I have always thought it would be interesting to get a list of all the people who died in November-December of 1888. Maybe the working males on that list in the right age group would represent a short list of who the Ripper really was?
Regards
Kevin |
Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 14 June 2001 - 09:17 am | | Hi, Kevin & Martin:
Jack vowed to continue until he got "buckled." In the case of Maybrick, Jack or not, he got buckled by his wife, and Chapman, if he was Jack, found another way to buckle his victims. 
Martin, I was rather startled to read what you said, that the Great British Trials series is not based on the trial transcripts. After having spent many hours poring over H. B. Irving's Trial of Mrs. Maybrick as well as other volumes in the series, I was amazed to hear you say that newspaper reports were used to assemble the books. I find this to be rather an eye opener. Thanks for that tip which is useful to know.
Best wishes
Chris George |
Author: Billy Markland
Sunday, 01 December 2002 - 09:05 am | | Having awakened early this morning to finish a transcription I am working on, I allowed myself to be side-tracked and finished Sugden's book (2002 revision) this morning instead.
Three things popped into my head regarding investigation into Chapman.
1) If someone had perused Warsaw newspapers for unsolved murders or mysterious deaths for 1 or 2 years prior to the Whitechapel murders? Kevin, that may be a fruitful search for you.
2) If Chapman did indeed go to America in early April 1891, after the census, there should be a reference in a boarding list on one side of the "pond" or the other. I recall that the local National Archives has a few rolls of lists of passengers arriving in New York City. If not available there, I can rent the rolls from the LDS. I will get back with those results.
3) In his clemency request to the Home Secretary Chapman is asserted to have claimed American citizenship. There should be some type of background information/request from the Foreign Secretary to the American Ambassador on that subject. I will jump from 1896 (gosh, and I was just getting interested in why America & Great Britain were going to break diplomatic relations over the border of British Guinea & Venezuela ) and check into that portion also.
Best of wishes to all,
Billy |
Author: Diana
Sunday, 01 December 2002 - 06:03 pm | | | Great idea that! Its gonna take somebody who speaks Polish though. |
Author: Billy Markland
Monday, 02 December 2002 - 09:50 am | | Diana, great point! I speak Southern English (US variety) but not Polish
I was hoping Kevin would pop back up on the board and take that item. However, I do have a couple of Polish friends here in scenic Kansas City who might be inveigled to help if only I had acess to the archives of period Polish newspapers.
Now back to getting my work PC to function 
Best of wishes,
Billy |
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