Author: Robert Maloney
Wednesday, 09 January 2002 - 07:20 am |        |
Graziano, thank you very much for your help. Much appreciated.
Rob |
Author: david rhea
Wednesday, 09 January 2002 - 02:07 pm | |
| I have a question. If it has already been answered, please direct me to where the answer is. Would an extremely hot fire in Mary Kelly's 12ft by 12ft room affect the conclusion as to the time of her death? Could her murder have occurred much earlier than 4:30(say around 2:30-3:00) |
Author: Ally
Wednesday, 09 January 2002 - 09:39 pm | |
| I know that this topic has been discussed numerous times. Your best bet for finding the information would be to go to Keyword Search, Search Topic: Ripper Victims and Search For: time of death. See what that gives you and then add words like "onset" because it is always discussed with "onset of rigor mortis". Good Luck. |
Author: Harry Mann
Thursday, 10 January 2002 - 04:12 am | |
Graziano,
Like you I am sorry the posts on Hutchinson were lost.I did not download them,so I have like the rest to rely on memory.However I did say there was significance in the red handkerchief,and will elaborate on my thoughts,I know I can get a thoughtful reply from yourself,and others may comment likewise.
I write from the proposition that Hutchinson was telling a fictitional tale,that he wanted certain ideas to point in a certain direction.Most of his story I have covered previously,so to the incident otside Millers Court.
Now why should Kelly and companion stop there.It was only about ten to fifteen paces to her room,a short walk down the passage,and the relative comfort from a cold november night,and the privacy to do anything they desired.
So they stopped for about three minutes,kissed and a red handkerchief was handed over.Now three minutes may not seem long,but sit in a chair and count that time off,and it might appear that it was an exceptionaly long time to do nothing,except hand over a red handkerchief and engage in a kiss,and say a few words.
The handkerchief plus the Jewish appearance as stated by Hutchinson might tie the murders together,for the person with Eddowes had a red handkerchief,the person seen by Long with Chapman was of foreign appearance,the writing in goulstan street has a jewish connection.Stride and Nichols were by the same hand as killed the rest.
Is this what Hutchinson was infering.A Jew with a red Handkerchief who was the last person to be with Kelly,was the same person at other murder locations.Not a gentile but a Jew.How well that may have gone down with the establishment.The problem is they seem to have fallen for it.
One more observation.Abbeline in his interview with Hutchinson produced the information that Hutchinson had known Kelly for three years.At that time she was believed to be residing at Breezers Hill,(my reckoning).Where is that in relation to Whitechapel,and might that not be where he gave her money.From Breezers hill to Millers court the night she died,still both in each others company.Coincidence?. |
Author: david rhea
Thursday, 10 January 2002 - 10:05 am | |
| Ally;I read the boards regarding time of death and smouldering fire regarding Mary Kelly, and I do not find that the time of Mary Kelly's death as relating to the fire has been discussed.Does heat affect the determining of the time of death.If it does then George Hutchinson was the last person to have access to Mary Kelly(2:30-3:00am). Maybe Hinton's stating that a smouldering fire was hot,and the heat would last up to 8 hrs. is totally wrong. I truly would like to know.This business of red hankerchiefs is most interesting and deserves some attention. |
Author: Ally
Thursday, 10 January 2002 - 12:52 pm | |
Hi David,
I know that it has with discussions about how hot could the fire have been, what would it have raised the temp in the room to, etc. These discussions are probably buried in several MJK threads. Maybe you should search for +"time of death" +fire and be sure to search only in the Ripper Victims thread.
Ally |
Author: Bob Hinton
Friday, 11 January 2002 - 05:31 am | |
Dear David Rhea,
I am not quite sure where you got the idea from that the fire I am talking about could be described as 'hot'. What I said was that it was still warm when the police inspected it several hours after it could have been lit.
Since the remnants of clothing were found and since the only fire that could still remain warm that long was a smouldering fire - not a roaring blaze- it seems obvious that what was burnt were some old clothes. This fire would not have been particularly hot, in fact it would hardly effect the room temperature at all.
Someone asked where Breezers Hill was. Well its on the Ratcliff Highway, by a strange coincidence only a few hundred yards from where GH was born.
all the best
Bob Hinton |
Author: david rhea
Friday, 11 January 2002 - 09:10 am | |
| Dear Bob. The kettle spout then did not melt off in that fire. Seems that Abberline would have known whether the melting was done then.Perhaps the heat of the large fire was kept to some degree(ha) by the smouldering fire)At some time there was a large fire, and there were people other than JTR there before 2:30. In that small room those there must have been roasting and uncomfortable during their visit.The large fire perhaps was lit when no one was there (which makes no sense).Perhaps the large fire was burning there at a prior time. Abberline thought the fire was burning (to give light) on that occasion.My question is ;would a hot fire affect the determination of the time of death (ambient temperature).Thanks for your reply David |
Author: Bob Hinton
Friday, 11 January 2002 - 12:32 pm | |
Dear David,
There is absolutely no way anyone would know when the spout was melted off the kettle. You wouldn't need a pariculary high heat to melt solde, its all to do with the build up of heat. You can heat soup up to a terrific heat by leaving it on the pilot light of your cooker all day.
As for time of death being effected by heat I presume you are talking about Rigor Mortis. Broadly speaking heat speeds the onset of rigor - cold decreases it.
all the best
Bob |
Author: david rhea
Friday, 11 January 2002 - 12:54 pm | |
| Bob; Thanks I see by my reading Smithkey's book today that all of this is old hat, and I really didn't know very much about the subject.I appreciate your answers to my posts, and taking time to reply to my questions.I noticed that the other experts just let it alone. Again thant you for your kindness.I've tried to read these boards,but it is not an easy task.I hope that you will continue to be patient with a novice. Thanks David |
Author: Harry Mann
Saturday, 12 January 2002 - 03:03 am | |
Bob,
It was I who asked where Breezers Hill was located.Thanks for the information.
H.Mann. |
Author: TS Simmons
Thursday, 14 February 2002 - 10:39 pm | |
| There's a really interesting theory about Hutchison in Eddleston's Encyclopedia of JTR! |
Author: Diana
Thursday, 25 April 2002 - 12:41 am | |
George Hutchinson's story has just sprung another leak. I found a description of astrakhan on a textile website. www.ntgi.net/ICCF&D/wool.htm#astrakhan
It has a long fuzzy, curly nap. Why on earth would an experienced mutilator like JTR wear a coat with astrakhan cuffs to carve up a body? Can you just imagine those cuffs soaked with glop? |
Author: Leanne Perry
Thursday, 25 April 2002 - 06:50 pm | |
G'day Diana,
What a great way to disguise his true intentions....then take off the coat, then put it back on to fool people!
LEANNE |
Author: Diana
Thursday, 25 April 2002 - 07:52 pm | |
| Wouldn't the dark colored jacket Mr. Astrakhan supposedly wore under the coat have done just as well? |
