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** This is an archived, static copy of the Casebook messages boards dating from 1998 to 2003. These threads cannot be replied to here. If you want to participate in our current forums please go to https://forum.casebook.org **
Sawney Beane Clan
Casebook Message Boards: Ripper Suspects: Specific Suspects:
Later Suspects [ 1910 - Present ]:
Sawney Beane Clan
Author: OdetoPoe
Saturday, 14 November 1998 - 03:13 pm |        | | I am wondering if anyone has heard of the "Shawnee BingClan". I'm spelling it as it sounds. I believe this clanexisted many years ago, until it was wiped out for murder andcannabalism in England. |
Author: A. Dylan Gable
Saturday, 14 November 1998 - 03:13 pm | | | Well, I never heard of Shawnee Bing, but there was a SawneyBeane executed in Midlothian, Scotland (near Edinburgh). He wasthe "Monster of Midlothian." Beane lived in a cave withhis family (called "clans" in Scotland), he was of themost savage habits. The old English tale of Sweeney Todd wasbased on his life, I believe. But, anyway this would be the clanof which you speak. They couldn't be responsible in any way forJTR, since they were executed in the late 1600s. |
Author: Mark Dooling
Saturday, 14 November 1998 - 03:13 pm | | | The submitter of the second message in this thread (A. DylanGable) was correct in identifying this Scottish family althoughthere is one obvious discrepancy in his letter and that is thatthe tale of Sweeney Todd is neither fiction nor based on thedeeds of this clan but FACT- Sweeney Todd (demon barber of FleetStreet) DID exist. |
Author: OdetoPoe
Saturday, 14 November 1998 - 03:14 pm | | Thank you for passing on my enquiries into "The ShawneeBing" Clan. Just got the responses tonight, though they werefew. Very interesting what the responses revealed.
I am curious about what Sawnee Beane did to get such areputation!
If at all possible could you indicate that I certainly did notintend to suggest that Sawnee Beane was 'Jack'. I was aware ofthe time when the Sawnee Beane incidents occurred. |
Author: Peter Birchwood
Saturday, 14 November 1998 - 03:14 pm | | | Although Sawney is mentioned in the Newgate Calendar, Ibelieve that no research has been successfull in showing that heand his unfortunate family actually existed. Their final endingat a mass auto-da-fe at the Tollbooth, Edinburgh would certainlyhave left some records. Equally, I have to say that Sweeny Toddwas a 19th Century "hero" of penny-dreadfulls. He neverexisted in London although there is an unproven suggestion that asimilar gentleman plied a similar trade in the Paris of the 17thcentury. Considering the dieatary habits of the French, thatwould not surprise me! |
Author: Siusaidh Miller
Saturday, 14 November 1998 - 03:14 pm | | I am a Celtic Studies grad student and of course veryinterested in the history of Sawney Beane. The story as I amaware of it (I have been told many versions and have read manyversions) goes as this:
Beane was the son of a small farmer. Being, thus notinterested in the family farm, he took up with a woman of illrepute. They started into small petty crimes and worked their wayup to some bigger petty crimes. They, being thus pursued by thelaw, took up residence in a cave near Bennane Head in Aryshire.There they reproduced and reprodeced, with no outside help (I'msure you get the picture by now) for some 50 years. Now, thislittle community (is you call it that) was so self sufficientthat it literally disappeared from society.
The "self-sufficient " part is the part thateveryone has the trouble with.
It seems that about the same time Beane and his frienddisappeared, the dissapearance rate of travelers on thisparticular road increased. Literally hundreds, if not a thusandpeople were never seen or heard from again.
Local landlords and tarern keepers were blamed, but nothingwas ever resolved until one day:
a man and his new bride were riding down this particular road,when they were ambushed by a large band of very raggedindividuals. He gallantly fought them off but they got hold ofhis wife and dismembered her right in front of him. He watched inhorror as they drank her blood and cut off her limbs. Seeing thathe could no longer assist her and in fear of the same fate as hiswife, he galloped to the nearest tavern and summoned help.
Hundreds of the locals came to his call. They found what wasleft of the man's wife, and wrapped it in a shroud for laterburial.
With packs of dogs they worked into the night to find these"people". Finally they came to a small opening in acave, which no one knew existed and the searchers had been pastseveral times.
Inside that cave, they found horror. For there was Sawney andhis clan (by incest) with what looked like a modern day butchershop. Human legs and arms were hung up to dry, body parts werepickled in large vats, ready to eat and heaps, upon heaps ofpersonal effects (rings, watches etc.) were in corners of thecave.
The locals rounded up the clan, which numbered over 40 andmarched them off to Edinburgh. With murderers caught "redhanded" there was no need for a trial, so a mass executionwas ordered. Even the king himself was present.
The Beane men and boys had their legs and arms amputated andburnt. They slowy bled to death, as their women watched. TheBeane women were then burnt to death, all the while supposedlyscreaming obsenities at the crowd of executioners. There wasnever a shred of remorse from the clan (heck, they didn't knowany better).
Well this is the story of Sawney Beane as I have been told.
Hope this helps.
PS I do not agree that Beane and Sweeney Todd were one and thesame. |
Author: Tom Cooper
Saturday, 14 November 1998 - 03:15 pm | | | Siu'saidh Miller is correct in his interpretation of the Storyof Sawney Beane's Clan. I heard and studied the same story when Iwas visiting Edinburgh in 1995. A Dylan Gable is incorrect on theapprox. time frame which Sawney Beane lived. Sawney Beane and hisfamily was caught and executed in 1435, (not the 1600's) althoughI have not been able to find the exact date of their execution.Sawney Beane was the inspiration for a number of horror films,especially Wes Craven's The Hills Have Eyes (1977), and to alesser degree: Tobe Hooper's The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (1974).Mark Dooling is mistaken in that it is very well know in GreatBritain that "Sweeny Todd, the Demon Barber of FleetStreet" is a fictional character. Sweeny Todd was acharacter loosely based on the historical Sawney Beane Clan. Myemail address is Smythe322@aol.comif anyone would like any more info. |
Author: Hugh Benton
Saturday, 14 November 1998 - 03:15 pm | | | Yes, yes. I HAVE heard of this clan of people. I will tell youwhat I remember from reading and I will try to be as accurate ashumanly possible. If it's any encouragement to you, I have aremarkable memory. I read about this clan in a book that had amultitude of true life, short story "horror" tales.This one I found to be one of the most memorable. I forget theyear, but it was in the 1600's. Elizabeth the 1st died in 1603(?)and King James the 6th of Scotland and the 1st of England was onthe throne. Apparently, Sawney Beane was a young man of badcharacter. He married a young girl of the same caliber. Theylived in sea caves at the bottom of some cliffs that were filledwith water from the tide twice a day. No one imagined that thecaves went very far inside the cliffs where the water could notreach. This is where they lived. They had children who inbredamong themselves and had children of their own. I'm not sure, butI believe that there was even another generation from inbreeding.Sawney and his family made a living of attacking people passingby. They would gut them and pickle their flesh and eat it.However, Sawney was not stupid. Many of the people were wealthybut Sawney never took articles, (pocket watches, whatever) andtried to resell them at local fairs or public places. All of theproperty was taken and stored in one of the many rooms of the seacaves in which they lived. Other rooms were hung with pickledflesh. They did this for years without being discovered. Theywere found out, when one evening a couple were returning homefrom a local fair. The clan raced out and pulled the woman fromher horse while her husband watched in horror. Within a fewseconds, they had the woman gutted and were dragging her offwhile the other clan members began to chase down the husband.Fortunately, another couple not far behind the first couple, sawwhat was happening and managed to rescue the husband. They wentto the authorities. When the clan was captured and tried, itbrought for the first time, an entirely new question into law andhuman ethics..were human beings responsible for their behaviorwhen they had known no other kind of behavior? However, the clanwas tried and all were put to death. All of the males were forcedto watch all of the females burned alive, and then all the maleshad their limbs cut off and were allowed to bleed to death. Ihope this helps you. I'm sorry, but I can't remember the name ofthe book that I got the info from. |
Author: Tom Campbell
Saturday, 14 November 1998 - 03:16 pm | | I found your web pages while searching for "SawneyBeane." I've just come
across an account of this gruesome bunch in a book called"50 True Terror
Tales," edited by John Canning. The book's chapter onthe Sawney Beane
tribe, written by C.E. Maine, can be found reproduced verbatim atthis web
address: http://www.oceanstar.com/horror/sawney.htm(the account also
apparently appears in a book called "The World's StrangestCrimes," under
Maine's byline).
You may be interested to know that a group called The RealMcKenzies has a
song called "Sawney Beane Clan."
There's also a surf/garage/punk group called "SawneyBean," who are
described at http://www.buyordie.com/SawneyBean/index.html
And curiously, I came across this restaurant listing whilesearching the
Internet for Sawney Beane:
Sawney Beane's Pakora Bar, 7 Viewfield Place, Stirling.
FK8 1NQ
Tel: (01786) 447770
Wonder what's on the menu...?? |
Author: David Cairns
Saturday, 14 November 1998 - 03:16 pm | | | As the co-author of an unproduced screenplay on Mr Bean and his clan, I may be able to help solve the debate about the era in which he lived. The only source of original information about Bean is a broadsheet, from, I believe the late 17th century. Bean is said to have lived during the reign of James I. Now, there were actually TWO James I. James I of Scotland (fifteenth century) and James VI of Scotland, otherwise known as James I of Great Britain. The broadsheet doesn't specify, but is either talking about someone alive in, or near, living memory, or someone who died hundreds of years earlier. Obviously, if Bean had been dead for centuries, the chances of the broadsheet being accurate are somewhat slimmer. Since (I believe) the broadsheet is Scottish in origin, it's actually more likely that the James I referred to is the earlier one. I have to conclude that Bean probably never existed, at least not in the form attributed to him. None of which has stopped me writing a gory historical romp inspired by his "life". |
Author: K. Thomas
Saturday, 14 November 1998 - 03:17 pm | | | What i've heard is that sawney beane and his family lived in a cave. There were supposedly 48 members of his family. After they were caught the men had their hands and feet cut off and were left to die. The women were forced to watch the men die and then were burned alive in three different fires. |
Author: Clik
Saturday, 14 November 1998 - 03:17 pm | | | There is a two-page article on Sawney Bean in v.9 of the excellent series, "Crimes and Punishment," originally published in England, later republished in an expanded 29-vol set by H. S. Stuttman, Inc., USA. The article on Bean, contained in a section titled "Families Who Kill," is based on records of John Nicholson, of Kirkcudbright. He dates the capture of the Bean Clan in the reign of James I, and states the clan, consisting of Sawney and his wife, eight sons, six daughters, 18 grandsons and 14 granddaughters, were imprisoned at Tolbooth Prison in Edinburgh before being executed in the fashion already mentioned, at Leith. |
Author: SPE
Saturday, 14 November 1998 - 03:17 pm | | | Both the Sawney Beane family and Sweeney Todd are fictitious, they never existed outside fiction and drama, they are apocryphal. |
Author: Katie
Saturday, 14 November 1998 - 03:18 pm | | | I have been following the JTR site for a while and had never heard of Sawney Beane until I read about it in these pages. I just ran across the story in "The Mammoth Book of True Crime" by Colin Wilson. From the style of writing and the word usage, I gather that the author is English rather than American. Just thought I'd post this if anybody is still looking for the info. Happy hunting! |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Tuesday, 13 February 2001 - 07:43 pm | | | I wrote about Sawney Bean on my website at http://serial-killers.20m.com/index.html He can be found under THE MEDIEVAL SERIAL KILLERS. Also worth a look is Baron Gilles de Rais.Hope this is of help |
Author: Jon
Tuesday, 13 February 2001 - 09:48 pm | | David C.
The story of Sawney Beane & Co. is first told in a history of highwaymen published in 1719, taking place in the reign of James I of England (James VI of Scotland), now as to whether it's true or not, I'll leave that for the more knowledgeable ones to determine.
Regards, Jon |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Wednesday, 14 February 2001 - 09:23 pm | | Regarding Sawney Beane, the issue of whether or
not he existed is still up in the air. The key
is that no documentary evidence exists for the
events of the horrific tale, either in the period
of King James I of Scotland (1394 - 1437) or
King James VI of Scotland and James I of England
(1566 - 1625). William Roughead, in writing of
"The Monster of Ballantrae" ended his account by
quoting Betsy Prig in Dickens' MARTIN CHUZZLEWIT,
about Sairey Gamp's unseen friend, Mrs. 'Arris,
"I don't believe there is no such person!"
Yet the details are always the same for Sawney
(more properly, Alexander) Beane and his cannibal
family. Probably it was pretty bad, but not as
horrific as the final story. The low level of
literacy in Scotland in the early 15th Century,
when it was more likely to have occurred, may
explain the lack of written sources.
It has been suggested that when Thomas Prest wrote
the novel, "A String of Pearls" in the late 1840s,
he had the Beane story in mind when he created
Victorian England's greatest FICTIONAL bogeyman,
Sweeney Todd. But some twenty years or so ago,
a writer named Haining wrote a study on Sweeny, in
all it's forms, and even touched on the subject
of Sawney Beane. Haining pointed out that Prest
began the novel with the statement, "FOUNDED ON
FACT", and set the novel about 1785. He did some
research, and discovered two very low key accounts
of two homicide cases involving a barber (unnamed)
in 1785. There was nothing suggesting Sweeney's
special way of finishing off his customers by
tipping them into a trap door, and cutting their
throats in the cellar (and afterwards helping
Mrs. Lovett convert them into "fresh meat pies!"
In fact, the two killings were sudden outbursts
of mania or anger at total strangers. Whether
or not these killings laid the foundation for Prest's story is something Haining can't quite say.
Jeff Bloomfield |
Author: Jon
Friday, 24 August 2001 - 06:13 pm | | Hello Jeff
I think I just picked up the book you are referring to:
Sweeney Todd
The real story of the demon barber of fleet street.
(1993)
In the preface Haining writes:
"I received a number of interesting letters and communications from people similarly intrigued by the mystery surrounding the Demon Barber. These missives spoke of old manuscripts in the British Museum, documents held in the guildhall in London, and a number of 18th and 19th century journals and newspapers on file in the British Library at Colindale. There were hints too, that the Library of Congress in Washington D.C. also had some interesting data relating to Sweeney Todd."
Then to start chapter 3:
"Sweeney Todd was born on 26 October, 1756 in Brick Lane, Stepney.......close to the junction with Hanbury St., a stones throw from Spitalfields Market."
chapter 4:
Sweeney Todd was bundled into Newgate Prison in 1770 at 14 years old for petty theft, and was set free in 1775."
A murder occured on December 1st, 1784 and was recorded in 'The Annual Register':
A Barbarious Barber
A most remarkable murder was perpetrated in the following manner by a journeyman barber that lived near Hyde Park Corner, who had been jealous of his wife, but could in no way bring this home to her. A young gentleman, by chance coming into the barber's shop to be shaved and dressed and being in liquor, mentioned having seen a fine girl in Hamilton Street, from whom he had had certain favours the night before, and at the same time describing her person. The barber, concluding this to be his wife, and in the height of his frenzy, cut the young gentleman's throat from ear to ear and absconded.
Then in the 'Daily Courant' of April 14th, 1785:
A CUT-THROAT BARBER
A horrid murder has been committed in Fleet Street on the person of a young gentleman from the country while on a visit to relatives in London.
During the course of a walk through the city, he chanced to stop to admire the striking clock of St. Dunstan's Church and there fell into conversation with a man in the clothing of a barber
The Newgate Calendar, 1802 (January?)
All eyes were turned upon the most dastardly criminal of the age, Sweeney Todd, who stood in the dock glaring at the foreman of the jury.
Sweeney Todd was taken from his cell in Newgate Prison at 8:00 a.m. on the morning of January 25th, 1802 and hanged, his body hung for one hour and then removed to the Royal College of Surgeon's, for disection.
(Haining)
And I thought Sweeney Todd was just a literary creation.
Regards, Jon |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Friday, 24 August 2001 - 08:05 pm | | Jon:
It's been years since I lent Peter Haining's
book on Sweeney (and briefly Sawney) to a friend
of mine in Pennsylvania. He probably still has
it.
Haining also wrote a book, which I have never
seen, about Spring Heeled Jack. Considering the
discussions on these boards involving that literary figure, if somebody comes across it, it
would be instructive to get a brief report on it.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Author: Jon
Saturday, 25 August 2001 - 09:15 am | | Thanks Jeff.
In all fairness I have not read this book yet so can't give an opinion myself but I posted enough snippets of info here to help someone look into this character if they have the inclination.
I have no copies of the Newgate Calendar but I do have Griffiths, 'The Chronicles of Newgate' (600 pages) and, even though I have not read it yet either, I searched through the index and list of murderers but see no mention of Sweeney Todd.
Other notorious characters are there, Dick Turpin, Sixteen string Jack, Jonathan Wild, Kate Webster, Captain Kidd, Jack Sheppard, Rob Roy, and a host of others. I think if Todd had been in Newgate he would have been listed.
Regards, Jon |
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