Author: John Dow
Wednesday, 13 November 2002 - 05:33 am |        |
http://www.acts2.com/thebibletruth/Jesuit_Oath.htm
An interesting oath - particularly the bit that says:
" rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women"
John |
Author: Christopher T George
Wednesday, 13 November 2002 - 03:42 pm | |
Hi, John:
You might ask yourself how authentic is that so-called "Jesuit oath" as transcribed on that website. What was the intent of those people in putting it on the website? I am not a Catholic and care little for organized religion, but it would seem obvious that whomever put that material on the site is a bigot and intends to blacken the reputation of the Catholic church and Jesuits in particular. Granted, I have not researched the matter but it would seem to me that although it appears that the oath shown may have been read before Congress on 15 February, 1913, it could have been by somebody with anti-Catholic sentiments, and that when that occurred bigotry was rife in the world.
John, don't accept everything you see in black and white as being what it appears to be.
All the best
Chris goerge |
Author: John Dow
Wednesday, 13 November 2002 - 05:29 pm | |
Chris, Thanks - points noted.
Alternately:
http://www.thenazareneway.com/society_of_jesus_jesuits.htm
http://www.reformation.org/oath.html
http://www.geocities.com/abramsarah/from_baptist_sources/jesuitoath.html
And so on, and so forth. If it's a myth, it's pretty wildly propagated.
John |
Author: Dan Norder
Wednesday, 13 November 2002 - 05:40 pm | |
Not only were the oaths fabricated by bigots, as Chris rightly pointed out, but the site linked to by John above says it was listed in the Congressional Records. So let's see what that record says...
"This committee cannot condemn too strongly the publication of the false and libelous article referred to in the paper of Mr. Bonniwell, and which was the spurious Knights of Columbus oath, a copy of which is appended to the paper." (H.R. Rep. No. 62-1523 (1913), reprinted in the Congressional Record for February 15, 1913, at p. 3221)
That's right, even as fake oaths go it's not a fake Jesuit Oath it's a fake Knights of Columbus Oath, and the bigots pushing it conveniently fail to mention that the reason it's in the Congressional Record is because it's veracity was ridiculed.
There's a full debunking of that oath (and other similar ones) at:
http://www.geocities.com/okc_catholic/articles/jesuit_oath.html
Dan the Debunker |
Author: Howard Brown
Wednesday, 13 November 2002 - 06:25 pm | |
| Thanks for the link,Dan the Debunker ! Very informative info......... |
Author: John Dow
Thursday, 14 November 2002 - 02:52 am | |
Aye - it's quite exceptional that such a thing is still being touted as genuine. My main interest (and the reason why I posted) is the line I quoted above - does it refer to the Whitechapel murders? Using the "oath" to implicate another faith. Or something. It's too early in the morning 
The thing I'm driving at is - were the Whitechapel murders so incorporated into the public psyche by then that the nutcases had started jumping on the bandwagon and using it to their own ends?
J |
Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 14 November 2002 - 08:38 am | |
Hi, John, Howard, and Dan:
I don't find it so remarkable that the fake Jesuit or Knights of Columbus oath is still being bandied about. After all, look at how the Royal Conspiracy story, which has mostly been discredited is being perpetuated, or various wild theories about the Kennedy assassination.
By the way, a French amateur photographer Philippe Lheureux has written a book which claims the United States never landed on the Moon and that the NASA photographs allegedly of astronauts on the Moon are faked. See "Moon shots 'faked'". Rightly or wrongly, NASA has just pulled the plug on a book that would have debunked the debunker. See "Nasa pulls Moon hoax book." Thus are new conspiracy theories born all the time.
By the way, Dan, possibly soon you will gain the same high reputation as a Debunker as Melvin Harris. 
All the best
Chris |
Author: Dan Norder
Thursday, 14 November 2002 - 01:14 pm | |
John-
I think one of the links I saw about the oath has it existing back in the 1880s. I doubt that it has any connection to the ripper killings. Rather, I think it's based upon the twisting of older religious references, for example:
"And Hazael said, Why weepeth my lord? And he answered, Because I know the evil that thou wilt do unto the children of Israel: their strong holds wilt thou set on fire, and their young men wilt thou slay with the sword, and wilt dash their children, and rip up their women with child."
-- 2 Kings 8:12
Chris,
There are a few nuts going around claiming nobody ever made it to the moon. One personally harassed Buzz Aldrin by blocking his exit and poking him with a Bible while calling him a fraud and got belted in the jaw for it. I'm hoping they come out with an episode of Celebrity Boxing in which the 72 year old astronaut gets to kick the snot out of the 37 year old buffoon.
I've avoided the threads with the long arguments over Melvin Harris, so I don't get the debunker reference.
Dan |
Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 14 November 2002 - 02:52 pm | |
Hi, Dan:
Oh to explain, one of Melvin Harris's claims to fame when he is not writing long posts about the Diary is that he takes pride in debunking hoaxes such as psychics who dream up ghosts and such phenomena as the Amityville Horror. He has a book out called, Sorry You've Been Duped! which covers such matters as well as, in one chapter, the Ripper case with discussion of Robert James Lees and other dubious aspects of the case.
I just thought maybe you had aspirations to follow Melvin in that regard in exposing such hoaxes and shammery. 
All the best
Chris |
Author: Dan Norder
Thursday, 14 November 2002 - 03:17 pm | |
Oh, huh. I've been a small-time but active participant in various skeptic causes for years.
I didn't realize Melvin Harris wrote books in this area also. I might have seen his name on skeptic material and just never connected it to the ripperologist. I'm pretty bad with names (except for trivial things like names of actors and actresses), so who knows.
Dan |
Author: John Dow
Friday, 15 November 2002 - 04:58 am | |
Right, well the lot of you can just stay the hell away from Elvis - the King Lives! ;-)
J |
