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U.K. 1881 Census
Casebook Message Boards: General Discussion: Research and Dissertations:
U.K. 1881 Census
Author: Billy Markland
Monday, 11 November 2002 - 09:42 pm |        | The U.K. & Canadian 1881 census' are on-line at the LDS web site. The U.S. 1880 census is also posted at this site.
Their home page URL is:
http://www.familysearch.org/
The URL for the search page is:
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=census/search_census.asp
Best of wishes,
Billy |
Author: chris scott
Sunday, 17 November 2002 - 07:36 pm | | I have started a trawl thru the 1881 census and found Michael Ostrog!
Details of 1881 census are:
Born 1834
Birthplace POLAND (Naturalised British subject)
Age 47
Occupation SURGEON
Convict
Institution: HM Prison, portland, Dorset
I hope this is of interest
Chris Scott |
Author: Jim Jenkinson
Tuesday, 19 November 2002 - 02:27 am | | Hi Billy,
I just wanted to thank you for posting this link. Much obliged.
Regards
Jim |
Author: chris scott
Wednesday, 20 November 2002 - 12:49 pm | | MONTAGUE JOHN DRUITT - 1881 CENSUS
I searched under the name of Druitt for Montague John but drew a blank. However, as he was by that time already teaching, I searched for George Valentine's school and found a full listing for staff, pupils and servants which I am posting below. For some reason MJD is listed on the census as MONTAGUE DRUK but the age and place of birth make it clear that it is him. Interesting to get a full picture of his associates and pupils of whom there are 15 ranging in ages from 14 to 17 years of age. One name stands out as familiar - there is a pupil with the surname BOUSFIELD, a very unusual surname and the same as that of Matha Tabrams's landlady. I am folloing this up and will post any results.
George Valentine's School from 1881 census
Address:
9 Eliot Place
Lewisham
Kent
Head of Household: George Valentine aged 39 born Bombay
Louisa Valentine (mother of George) aged 66 born Nevis, West Indies
Staff:
Mark Francis James Mann: aged 25 born Guernsey Assistant schoolmaster B.A.
Montague Druk: aged 23 born Wimborne, Dorset Assistant schoolmaster B.A.
Pupils:
Henry Lieschiny: aged 17 born Tangelle, Ceylon
Ernest Borwick: aged 16 born Walthamstow, Essex
William Walker: aged 16 born Rosano, Argentine
John D Mennie: aged 16 born Poonah, India
W Reginald Ellin: aged 16 born Sheffield, Yorkshire
Edward A Ugielli: aged 15 born London
Henry F Mackern: aged 15 born Buenos Aires, Argentine
William F Tyler: aged 15 born Woolton, Somerset
Albert Bridges: aged 15 born Berbice, British Guiana
Julius Savory: aged 15 born London
Nathaniel B Winter: aged 14 born New Amsterdam, British Guiana
George H Mackern: aged 14 born Limerick, Ireland
Tufnell B Southgate: aged 14 born Lee, Kent
Arthur Bousfield: aged 14 born Lee, Kent
Douglas C Ugielli: aged 14 born London
Servants:
Elizabeth Smith: aged 23 born Woolwich, London Housemaid
Alice S Apps: aged 18 born Bromley Kitchen Maid
Herbert J Clarke: aged 15 born Sherborn, York Stable Boy |
Author: chris scott
Wednesday, 20 November 2002 - 02:08 pm | | Mary Kelly's father?
I searched in the 1881 census looking for the following
1) Name JOHN KELLY
2) Born in Ireland
3) resident in Wales
4) Working in an Iron Works
Only one possibility emerged and the details of the household are as below:
Address:
Gibson's Square
Trevethin
Monmouth
Wales
Head:
Mary Madden: widowed aged 50 born Mon, Ireland
Michael Madden: aged 13, born Trevethin, Monmouth (son)
Timothy Madden: aged 10, born Trevethin, Monmouth (son)
Boarders:
John Kelly: aged 50, born Ireland Labourer at Iron Works
James Kelly: aged 15, born Trevthin, Monmouth Labourer at Iron Works
Juhannah Kelly: aged 13, born Trevethin, Monmouth Domestic Servant
Please note that the spelling of Juhannah is as in the Census entry and should presumably by Johannah
I hope this is of interest
Chris Scott |
Author: chris scott
Wednesday, 20 November 2002 - 06:07 pm | | R D Stephenson - 1881 Census
I have found the entry below which may be of interest in the census for 1881
Address:
10 Hollingworth Street North
London
Head of Household:
Roslyn D Stephenson
Born 1842 in Sculcoates, York
Aged 39
MD (not practising and scientific writer on London Press)
Married
Wife:
Annie Stephenson
Born 1844 in Thorne, York
Aged 37
Hope this is of interest
Chris Scott |
Author: Madeleine Murphy
Thursday, 21 November 2002 - 12:46 pm | | Hi Chris,
It's very interesting!
I wonder if any of those boys ever wrote about what happened to their unfortunate schoolmaster...
madeleine |
Author: Billy Markland
Friday, 22 November 2002 - 10:36 am | | Chris, take a look in the 1881 UK census at Thomas Conway head of household with Kate Conway. Based upon what I have read in Sugden & A-Z, I think this was Catherine Eddowes. I can't find her daughter Annie Phillips in that household but the ages of the everyone match the time frames given in the books within one year.
I would have posted the info myself but I can't get the formatting right! 
Best of wishes,
Billy
P.S. If that is the correct Kate, it changes the info in A-Z relative to her leaving Conway and taking up with Kelly slightly. |
Author: chris scott
Friday, 22 November 2002 - 04:31 pm | | Hi Billy
thanks for pointing me to that:-)
The details from 1881 are:
THOMAS CONWAY
Address:
71 Lower George Street
London
Thomas Conway (Head)
Born 1835 in Ireland
Aged 46
Hawker
Kate Conway (wife)
Born 1843 in Stafford
Aged 38
Charwoman
Thomas Conway (son)
Born 1868 in Middlesex
Aged 13
Scholar
George Conway (Son)
Born 1874 in Middlesex
Aged 7
Scholar
Chris |
Author: chris scott
Friday, 22 November 2002 - 05:55 pm | | Ive found the 1881 census entry for Annie Chapman at her mother's address in Montpelier Place. The details are below:
ANNIE CHAPMAN:
Address:
29 Montpelier Place
London
RUTH SMITH (Head)
Born 1819 in Herstmonceux, Susses
Aged 62
Laundress
Widowed
FONTIN SMITH (Son)
Born 1861 in Knightsbridge, London
Aged 20
Stationer's assistant
Unmarried
GEORGEINA SMITH (Daughter)
Born Windsor, Berks
Aged 25
Laundress
Unmarried
ANNIE CHAPMAN (Daughter)
Born 1841 in Knightsbridge, London
Aged 40
Stud groom's Wife
JOHN CHAPMAN (Grandson/Visitor)
Born 1880 in Windsor, Berks
Aged 4 months
ANNIE CHAPMAN (Granddaughter/Visitor)
Born 1874 in St Georges, London
Aged 7
Scholar
EMILY CHAPMAN (Granddaughter)
Born 1871 in Knightsbridge, London
Aged 10
Scholar |
Author: chris scott
Friday, 22 November 2002 - 06:28 pm | | LIZ STRIDE in 1881 Census
I found the following entry:
LIZ STRIDE:
from 1881 Census
Address:
69 Usher Road
London
JOHN T STRIDE (Head)
Born 1827 in Sheerness, Kent
Aged 54
Carpenter
ELIZABETH STRIDE (Wife)
Born 1847 in Stockholm, Sweden
Aged 34
All other sources I have seen give here year of birth as 1843 but the census gives 1847
May be of interest
Chris scott |
Author: chris scott
Tuesday, 26 November 2002 - 03:34 pm | | JOSEPH FLEMING
The A-Z says re Mary Kelly:
"...Joseph Fleming, a mason or plasterer from the vicinty of Bethnal Green, with whom she (Kelly) had been associating prior to meeting Barnett, who used to visit her while she was with Barnett and of whom she was apparently very fond."
There was a slight variant of spelling when I found the man I believe to be him in the 1881 census. Details below:
Address:
61 Crozier Terrace
London
Head of Household:
Ellen Copping
Born 1846 in Hackney, Middlesex
Aged 35
Laundress
Widowed
Daughter:
Emily Copping
Born 1868 in Hackney, Middlesex
Aged 13
No occupation
Daughter:
Ann Copping
Born 1879 in Homerton, Middlesex
Aged 2
Lodger:
John Percy
Born 1854 in Bethnal Green, Middlesex
Aged 27
Rope maker
Unmarried
Lodger:
Joseph Flemming
Born 1859 in Bethnal Green, Middlesex
Aged 22
Plasterer
Unmarried
Regards
Chris Scott |
Author: chris scott
Tuesday, 26 November 2002 - 06:29 pm | | JOSEPH BARNETT
I have searched for Joe Barnett and of the six returned for the right age span and location the following household threw up the most likely candidate:
Address
1 Horatio Street
London
Head of Household:
George Bailey
Born City of London
Aged 28
General Dealer
Wife:
Mary A Bailey
Born St Lukes
Aged 26
Son
James Bailey
Born St Lukes
Aged 5
Daughter
Lizzie Bailey
Born Shoreditch
Aged 3
Son
Alfred Bailey
Born Shoreditch
Aged 1
Lodger:
Joseph Barnett
Born 1859 in Whitechapel
Aged 22
Unmarried
General Labourer
Visitor:
John Barnett
Born 1861 in Whitechapel
Aged 20
Unmarried
Fish Porter
John was presumably Joseph's younger brother and already a fish porter
Hope this interests some:-)
Chris scott |
Author: chris scott
Thursday, 28 November 2002 - 07:41 pm | | In the 1881 census I have found a Dr Robert Druitt born In Wimborne, Dorset.
Details of entry are:
Address:
8 Strathmore Gardens
London
Robert Druitt FRCS Lond JP SLES Ales MD of Lambeth (not practising)
Born 1815 in Wimborne, Dorset
Age 66
Married
Also listed are two daughters: Emily, aged 25, an Art Student at South Kensington and Gertrude aged 18, a scholar. Servants listed are:
Amelia McQuillen aged 53 from Stonehouse, Devon
Ellen Curren aged 27 from Limerick, Ireland
Frances Bulter aged 28 from Hereford.
Anyone know what relation this Robert Druitt was to Montague please?
Many thanks
Chris Scott |
Author: chris scott
Thursday, 28 November 2002 - 07:46 pm | | MRS CARTHY - Mary Kelly's landlady
I thought this entry in the census might be of interest:
MRS CARTHY
Catharine Carthy
Address:
32 Pell Street
London
Born 1831 in Kerry, Ireland
Aged50
Married to
Cormack Carthy
Born 1830 in Kerry, Ireland
Plasterers Labourer
Aged 50
Daughter:
Bridget Carthy
Born 1865 in London
Aged 16
Domestic Servant
PELL STREET was a small sidestreet connecting Cable Street and St Georges's Street at the western end of the Ratcliff Highway. St George's Street was specifically mentioned by Mrs Carthy in connection with Mrs BUKI, Kelly's previous landlady. |
Author: chris scott
Sunday, 01 December 2002 - 10:15 am | | I understand there have been problems tracing details about PC John Thain who testified at Mary Nichols' inquest. The listing below may be of interest. It shows a PC John Thain staioned in 1881 census at Woolwich Dockyard.
PC John Thain
Address:
Dockyard Section House
Woolwich
Kent
Head
Sergeant Robert Spiller
Aged 40
Born Chard, Somerset
Sergeant Leonard Hall
Aged 44
Born Batterford, Leicester
PC Andrew Burnett
Aged 26
Born Ireland
PC Job Marsh
Aged 28
Born Littlebury, Essex
PC Henry Greaves
Aged 25
Born Colkirk, Norfolk
PC Henry Webb
Aged 24
Born Camberwell, Surrey
PC John Thain
Aged 26 (born 1855)
Born Winstone, Suffolk
PC John Bryant
Aged 25
Born Chatham, Kent
PC William Wakeham
Aged 31
Born Stonehouse, Devon
PC Charles Kingston
Aged 21
Born Bagshot, Berkshire
PC George Roffey
Aged 27
Born Wolverton, Berkshire
All are listed as unmarried and being in METRON police - presumably Metropolitan. |
Author: chris scott
Sunday, 01 December 2002 - 10:28 am | | MORGAN DAVIES: the Roslyn Donston suspect
I have located Morgan Davies in the 1881 census working at an establishment at 37 and 38 Great Alie Street which ran parallel to Whitechapel High St to the south and crossed Leman Street
His details from the census are listed as:
Morgan Davies
House Surgeon
Born 1854 in Whitechapel
Aged 27
Surgeon and Physician
This establishment is not named in the census, only given as an address. However it was considerable in that the following numbers of occupants are listed:
Admin staff 8
House Physicians 5
House surgeons 3
Others staff (maternity etc) 7
Sisters 22
Nurses 66
Domestic staff 28
Patients 605
I'd be very intrested if anyone knows what this establishment was
many thanks
CS |
Author: chris scott
Sunday, 01 December 2002 - 04:56 pm | | 6 Fashion Street - Catharine Eddowes
It has always intrigued me as to why Eddowes when arrested for drunkeness gave the particular address of 6 Fashion Street and the name Mary Ann Kelly
I have found the premises in the 1881 census and there was was a Mary Ann indeed listed there at that time but not, needless to say, Kelly!
The full listing the census for 6 Fashion Street is:
Thomas Higgins Aged 32 Born: St George E Gen.Dealer
Caroline Higgins: Wife Aged 32 Born: Islington
Alfred Higgins: Son Aged 5 Born: Islington
Harris Lagatshesski: aged 23 Born: Poland Confectioner
Rebecca Lagatshesski: aged 22 Born:Poland Wife
Isaach Lagatshesski: aged 2 Born: Whitechapel Son
William Darlington: aged 31 Born: Spitalfields Labourer
Ann Darlington: Wife aged 40 Born:St Lukes
Thomas Moss: aged 32 Born: London Porter
Mary Ann Moss: wife aged 35 Born: Norwich
George Mills: aged 36 Born: London Porter
Ellen Mills: wife aged 30 Born: London Hawker
Ellen Mills: daughter aged 10 Born:London
Kate Mills: daughter aged 1 Born: London |
Author: chris scott
Sunday, 01 December 2002 - 07:48 pm | | 29 Hanbury Street:
Residents from 1881 Census
James Hardiman
Born 1859 in Mile End
Aged 22
Dealer in Horse Flesh
Mrs James Hardiman
Wife
Born 1859 in Birmingham
Aged 22
James Waker
Widowed
Born 1823 in Bethnal Green
Wood Turner
Alfred Waker
Son
Unmarried
Born 1857 in Bethnal Green
Casual labourer
Ambrose Bush
Born 1845 in Essex
Aged 36
Ventian blind maker
Louisa Bush
Wife
Born 1834 in Spitalfields
Aged 47
Sarah Wilcox
Other
Widowed
Born 1817 in St Georges
Aged 64
Tailoress
Mary Ford
Other
Unmarried
Born 1827 in Whitechapel
Aged 54
Charwoman
? Stanton
Born 1849 in Spitalfields
Aged 32
Cane Preparer
? Stanton
Wife
Born 1851 in Bethnal Green
Aged 30
Children:
James Stanton aged 14
Mathias Stanton aged 8
Charlotte Stanton aged 4
Thomas Stanton aged 2
Thomas Richardson
Born 1824 in Spitalfields
Aged 57
Wooden box maker
Amelia Richardson
Wife
Born 1823 in Spitalfields
Aged 58
One child: Thomas Richardson aged 5
Mrs Harriet Hardiman (aged 44) who testified at the Chapman inquest is on the census as residing next door at no 27 Hanbury Street with the following children:
Edward aged 17
John aged 12
Walter aged 9
Sarah aged 23
Harriet aged 19
Walter must be the son who was living with here at No 29 at the time of the Chapman murder |
Author: chris scott
Friday, 20 December 2002 - 10:55 am | | Two more Druitts that I have traced (one with a variant spelling)
1881 Census
LIONEL DRUITT
Gainsborough House
Leyton Low
Essex
Household:
Head: Frank W Cooper aged 42 (Doctor)
Wife: Edith Cooper aged 41 (Doctor)
Children:
Mary E aged 5
Elsie R aged 4
Edith H aged 3
Boarders:
Lionel Druitt aged 26 born St George, Hanover Square (General practitioner)
Alfred P Griffith aged 21 (Medical student)
Servants:
Maria Bareham aged 23 (Nurse)
Jessie J Bareham aged 16 (Cook)
Maryann May aged 17 (Housemaid)
Emily S Puffett aged 13 (Under nurse)
WILLIAM DRUITT (MJD's elder brother who testified at his inquest)
59 Palace Garden Terrace
London
Household:
Head: Mary A Wilson aged 60 (Lodging house keeper)
Children:
Jessie aged 41 (Female)
James aged 29 (Brokers clerk)
Mary A aged 22
Lodger: William H Drewitt (sic)
Aged 24 born Wimborne Minster, Dorset
Solicitors articled clerk BA |
Author: Chris Phillips
Friday, 20 December 2002 - 11:18 am | | chris
Thanks for posting those details those. Lionel is Montague's first cousin, who emigrated to Australia and was presumed by Dan Farson to be the author of the pamphlet "The East End Murderer - I Knew Him", which a correspondent claimed to have seen there.
I don't remember having seen Lionel located in the 1881 census before. |
Author: chris scott
Friday, 20 December 2002 - 08:06 pm | | Treatment of Ann Druitt
I did a trawl though the 1881 census for the various medicos who treated MJD's mother from 1888 to 1890 and came up with the following:
Dr Joseph R Gasquet
(Ann Druitt under his treatment from September 1888 to May 1890)
127 Eastern Road
Brighton
Sussex
Household
Head:
Joseph R Gasquet aged 43 (Physician MB)
Cousin:
Emma B Partidge aged 29 (Certified Teacher)
Servants:
Mary Bailey aged 22 (Cook)
Maria L Masters aged 23 (Parlourmaid)
Catherine Murphy aged 20 (housemaid)
Dr William Pavy
(treated Ann Druitt from July 1888 and certified insane by him)
Only physician of that surname on 1881 census:
Frederick N Pavy (Physician)
35 Lower Grosvenor Street
London
Aged 57
The "Tuke Brothers" who treated Ann Druitt at Manor House asylum
Only medical connection in London of that name is:
37 Albermarle Street
London
Head:
Charles M Tuke aged 20 (Student of medicine)
Boarder:
Mary A Nickel aged 51
Servants:
Mary A Lee aged 31 (Nurse)
Elizabeth Hearne aged 27 (Servant)
Emma Dawes aged 22 (Nurse)
Louisa Fand aged 33 (Servant)
Jane Keast aged 21 (Servant) |
Author: chris scott
Tuesday, 31 December 2002 - 06:13 pm | | I have been searching the 1881 census for some time for James Sadler so I've done a long search for anyone of the righ name with any seagoing connection. This threw up 3 entries which Im listing below:
James Sadler - seamen
1) James Sadler b.1844
Aged 37 born in Bristol
Mate on the "Electric"
Penarth, Glamorgan, Wales
2) b.1864
Aged 17 born in Bradwell Essex
Fisherman on the "Lord Salisbury"
Great Grimsby, Lincoln
3) b.1841
Aged 40 born Ipswich, Suffolk
Fireman on the "Adelaide"
Harwick St Nicholas, Essex
If any of these three are our man, my money is on Number 3 for what it's worth:-))
Regards
Chris Scott |
Author: chris scott
Sunday, 05 January 2003 - 10:52 am | | Dorset Street population - 1881
I am currently doing a project to extract 1881 census data so that this can be referenced by address and not just name. This will cover the Whitechapel/Spitalfields area initially. This also allows for head counts for certain streets and areas and gives a vivd picture of just how overcrowded some areas were.
As an initial exercise, I have done a headcount for Dorset Street for 1881 and Im listing this below. Miller's Court is listed seprately beneath. Two things of interest - No 35 (which was Crossingman's Loding House by 1888) is listed in 1881 as uninhabited and the Crossinghams in 1881 were running the lodging house ar 16-18 Dorset Street.
Dorset Street 1881
Population
No 1 - 9 residents
No 2 - 17 residents
No 3 - 30 residents
No 4 - 29 residents
No 5 - 20 residents
No 6 - 9 residents
No 8 - Uninhabitated
Nos 9-11 Common Lodging House - 198 residents
No 12 Common Lodging House - 43 residents
No 13 - 20 residents
No 14 - 38 residents
No 15 - 18 residents
Nos 16-19 Common Lodging House - 166 residents (Crossingham's)
No 20 - 24 residents
No 24 - 5 residents
No 25 - 5 residents
No 26 - 13 residents
No 27 - 7 residents (Head - John Mc Carthy)
Nos 28-29 - 36 residents
No 30 - 93 residents
No 31 - 21 residents
No 32 - 3 residents
No 33 - 8 residents
No 34 - 9 residents
No 35 - Uninhabitated
No 36 - 21 residents
No 37 - 22 residents
No 38 - 21 residents
No 39 - 15 residents
Total = 900
Millers Court
No 1 - 4 residents
No 2 - 6 residents
No 3 - 5 residents
No 4 - 5 residents
No 6 - 6 residents
Total = 26
Hope this is of some interest
Chris S |
Author: chris scott
Sunday, 05 January 2003 - 10:54 am | | Omission from last post - the head count for 5 Millers Court is 4 so the total for Millers Court is 30
CS |
Author: chris scott
Monday, 27 January 2003 - 06:58 pm | | CARDIFF INFIRMARY 1881 CENSUS
In the process of elimination in trying to find MJ Kelly in the 1881 census, I am looking at various possibilities. At some time between c1879 when she married and c1884 when she came to London, she spent 8 or 9 months in the Cardiff Infirmary, Newport Road.
I have tracked down the census return for the infirmary for 1881 and she is not listed - so another target eliminated:-)
For anyone interested, this is the listing for the infirmary for 1881:
Newport Road Infirmary
Thos. W. GRAVES House Surg (Head) U Male 23 Leominster, Hereford, England Surgeon L.S.A. M.R.C.S.
E.F. COX Other U Male 23 Warwick, England Dispenser
Frederick MICKER Patient U Male 29 Copenhagen (F), Denmark Ships Cook
William HARRIS Patient M Male 27 Ross, Hereford, England Brakesman G W R (Guard)
Patrick SULLIVAN Patient M Male 57 Kantiesk, Ireland General Labourer
John DONOGHUE Patient U Male 15 Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan, Wales Labourer On Railway
Archilas DEACON Patient U Male 18 Plymouth Haulier
Michael BRYAN Patient U Male 19 Cork, Ireland Labourer On Docks
Gerald KING Patient M Male 64 Hertford, England Hobbling Pilot
William MORRIS Patient U Male 50 Dillwyn, Hereford, England Gardener
Chas. SCAMMEL Patient M Male 30 Frome, Somerset, England Coppersmith
Levi TUCKER Patient M Male 30 Angesleigh, Somerset, England Guard Taff Vale R T
Wm. KINGSTON Patient Male 8 Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales Scholar
Geo. CONSTANTINE Patient M Male 30 Corfu Firsno (F), Greece Seaman
William CAREY Patient U Male 16 Newport, Monmouth, England Shoeblack
Patrick WHELAN Patient U Male 15 Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales Errand Boy
Morgan MORGAN Patient W Male 64 Cowbridge, Glamorgan, Wales Labourer In Steel Works
John DRISCOLL Patient U Male 20 Radyr, Glamorgan, Wales Farm Servant
Jenkin LEWIS Patient M Male 38 Coychurch, Glamorgan, Wales Hay Cutter
Patrick HURLEY Patient Male 11 Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales Scholar
David EDWARDS Patient U Male 23 Tenby, Glamorgan, Wales Bookkeeper
Conway JONES Patient U Male 24 Bridgewater, Somerset, England Housepainter
John JONES Patient M Male 36 Tredegar, Monmouth, England Miner Colliery
Sidney JEWEL Patient U Male 6 Llantrissant, Glamorgan, Wales Scholar
Fredk. LEWIS Patient U Male 18 Narbeth, Pembroke, Wales Farm Servant
Martin THOMPSON Patient M Male 37 Egersund (BS), Norway Seaman
Edwin HARRELL Patient U Male 16 Lisvane, Glamorgan, Wales Farm Servant
John AKINN Patient U Male 34 Cork Queenstown Seaman
William LEWIS Patient M Male 45 Pen Tyrch, Glamorgan, Wales Coal Miner
John MACAULIFFE Patient M Male 60 Cork Churchtown Railway Labourer
John WILLIAMS Patient U Male 17 Llechfacll, Brecknock, Wales Drapers Assistant
James KERR Patient M Male 46 Port Patrick, Wigtown, Scotland Naval Engineer
Edwin BENNETT Patient M Male 32 Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales Housepainter
Jane JONES Patient U Female 25 Llantwit Vadre, Glamorgan, Wales Dressmaker
Mary MORGAN Patient M Female 33 Wenvoe, Glamorgan, Wales Laundrywoman (Washes & Irons)
Margaret SMITH Patient U Female 27 Hirwain, Glamorgan, Wales Cook(Dom)
Annie ROACH Patient U Female 8 Mountain Ash, Glamorgan, Wales Scholar
Lety Ann FUDGE Patient Female 7 Canton Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales
Mary WILLIAMS Patient M Female 33 Brynmaur, Monmouth, England Colliers Wife
Phillipa GUMMOND Patient U Female 16 Newry, Cornwall, England General Servant
Emily COLEMAN Patient U Female 22 Salisbury, Wiltshire, England Housemaid
Mary CLANEY Patient W Female 50 Bandon Cork, Ireland Washerwoman
Emily SCOTT Patient U Female 18 Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales Nurse (Dom)
Eliza NICHOLLS Patient M Female 55 Cheltenham Wife Of Ropemaker
Elizabeth GRIFFITHS Other U Female 32 Bayswater, Shropshire, England Matron (Hospital Serv)
Margaret BISHOP Other U Female 48 Bishops Castle, Shropshire, England Nurse (Hospital Serv)
Amy MORRIS Other U Female 25 London, Middlesex, England Nurse (Hospital Serv)
Ellen WILLIAMS Other U Female 28 Ebbw Vale, Glamorgan, Wales Nurse (Hospital Serv)
Ellen MOUNTIGN Other U Female 33 Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan, Wales Nurse (Hospital Serv)
Elizabeth THOMAS Other U Female 26 Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales Nurse (Hospital Serv)
Annie EVANS Other U Female 21 Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales Nurse (Hospital Serv)
Ellen HARRISON Other U Female 24 Dontypool, Monmouth, England Nurse (Hospital Serv)
Maria MARSDEN Other U Female 34 Newport, Pembroke, Wales Cook (Dom)
Louisa PRITCHARD Other U Female 19 Welsh Knighton, Radnorshire, Wales Housemaid
Elizabeth JAMES Other W Female 44 Cadoxton, Glamorgan, Wales Nurse (Hospital Serv)
Thomas AGG Other W Male 49 Llanvair, Monmouth, England Porter |
Author: chris scott
Thursday, 30 January 2003 - 12:19 pm | | Tracing MARY J KELLY in the 1881 Census
I have been making a concerted search for Mary Kelly in the 1881 census and thought the resultsnight be of interest.
If we accept the sketchy chronology as suggested by Barnett's account of Kelly's background, the key dates would be as follows (all dates are approximate):
1863 Born Limerick, Ireland
1879 Married DAVIS or DAVIES, a collier in Wales
1881/82 - Davies killed in explosion. Kelly moved to cardiff and spent 8-9 months in the Infirmary there
1884 Moved to London
We would therefore from this hazy chronolgy expect Kelly, at the time of the 1881 census (April of that year) to still be living Wales with DAVIS or DAVIES.
I have searched the 1881 census data under the following combinations and with the following results (all searches used Country of Birth as IRELAND and Country of Residence as WALES):
DAVIS DAVIES KELLY KELLEY
MARY 0 10 17 2
MARY J 0 1 0 0
MARY JANE 0 0 0 0
MARY JANET 0 0 0 0
MARIE 0 0 0 0
MARIE J. 0 0 0 0
MARIE JANE 0 0 0 0
MARIE JEANETTE 0 0 0 0
M J 0 0 0 0
M.J. 0 0 0 0
M. 0 0 0 0
M 0 0 0 0
Therefore of the possible combinations I tried, 30 results were produced. Eliminating totally implausible dates of birth (either way too young or way too old) reduced 30 entries to only 4 that merited looking at.
These are as follows:
MARY DAVIES:
1) Born 1858, married to William Davies, described as an Army Pensioner aged 36. Resident at 32 Newport Street, Hay, Brecon. 3 female children - Elizabeth aged 2, Mary aged 3 and Alice aged 5 months.
2) Born 1859, married but no husband listed. She is described as Boarder and trade is a Cheese Dealer. Resident at 41 North Street, Newport, Monmouth. Head of household is Catherine Donovan, aged 40, born Ireland.
MARY J DAVIES:
1) Born 1852, married to Evan Davies aged 45, described as Timekeeper at Iron Works. Place of residence is Bighams Row, Upper Race, Panteg, Monmouth. There is one female child - Lucy aged 5. The connection with an Ironworks is interesting as this was the trade supposedly taken up in Wales by Kelly's father when they moved from Ireland. However, the most telling count against this one is the age as it would make her 36 at the time of the murder.
MARY KELLY:
1) Born 1864, unmarried, still living at home. Parents are Hubert Kelly (aged 51), a general labourer and mother is Bridget Kelly (aged 47). There are listed 7 brothers ranging from 25 to 1 in age and one sister, Elizabeth, aged 10. Place of residence is Broughton Colliery Cottages, Brymbo, Denbigh.
Any other search combinations will be gladly followed up and I will post the results here.
CS |
Author: Simon Owen
Thursday, 30 January 2003 - 11:48 pm | | Chris , can I make a suggestion ?
There was a poster on here a year or two ago named Kelly Jones ( I think ) who suggested that Mary Kelly survived Miller's Court and returned to England after a sojourn in Canada to live in Liverpool and then run a pub in Stoke-On-Trent , England.
The Stoke connection may be pertinent , maybe Kelly had lived in Stoke before ? At the time we dismissed Kelly Jones's posts as nonsense , but I have since learned that there WAS an Irish woman living in Stoke called Mary Kelly although I am not sure of the time period she was there.
I'm just wondering - maybe it might be worth looking for Kelly in Stoke in the 81 , 91 or 01 censuses ? It may be a dead end , or something might turn up. |
Author: chris scott
Friday, 31 January 2003 - 07:49 am | | Simon
Suggestions are always welcome:-)
I didnt know of this story and will follow up and let you knwo if I have any luck
Thanks again
Chris S |
Author: Philip C. Dowe
Friday, 31 January 2003 - 11:49 am | | Hi Chris,
2 intersting points:
1) Mary Kelly real name is Mary Jane O'Brien.
2) The story that she went to Canada is not new.
Both of these informations can be found in "The Ripper and the Royals".
Yours,
Philip |
Author: chris scott
Friday, 31 January 2003 - 12:01 pm | | Hi Philip
I must admit I havent read the Ripper and the Royal for ages. I'll have to check where the O'Brien name comes from and whether this is her maiden name
Many thanks for the info
Chris |
Author: chris scott
Friday, 31 January 2003 - 02:27 pm | | Hi Philip
I have reconsulted the Ripper and the Royals and found the bit you mention. The entry relating to the O'Brien name comes from the so called "Abberline" diray so has to be treated with a healthy degree of caution. For ny who haven't read it, the quote is:
"Through a letter sent to me in Jan 1889, from Miss Nora O'Brien of Roofer castle, Limerick, Ireland, who stated that Marie Jeanette Kelly was her niece, daughter of her brother who was in the army, officer in the Inniskilling Dragoons. Here real name was Mary Jane O'Brien. Kelly was the name of a distant relative. She had been receiving letters from her in the name of Mary Jane Kelly, but after her letters stopped coming she had found out about the Whitechapel murders."
Plenty of names to check on there!
If I find anything of interest I'll post it here
Regards
Chris s |
Author: Timsta
Friday, 31 January 2003 - 02:45 pm | | Chris:
Re: the Denbigh Mary Kelly. What are the names of the brothers? Is there a John or a Henry in there?
Regards
Timsta |
Author: chris scott
Friday, 31 January 2003 - 04:05 pm | | Hi Timsta
The siblings of the Denbigh Mary Kelly are:
Michael aged 25
John aged 24
Hubert aged 19
Patrick aged 13
Garret aged 7
Thomas aged 4
Timothy aged 1
Elizabeth aged 10
Hope this helps
Chris S |
Author: chris scott
Friday, 31 January 2003 - 04:09 pm | | Timsta - to give you full details, Ive extracted this from the Census data
Source Information:
Dwelling Broughton Colliery Cottages
Census Place Brymbo, Denbigh, Wales
Family History Library Film 1342326
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 5517 / 15
Page Number 22
Hubert KELLY Head M Male 51 Ireland General Laborer
Bridget KELLY Wife M Female 47 Ireland
Michel KELLY Son U Male 25 Ireland Labourer
John KELLY Son U Male 24 Ireland General Laborer
Hubert KELLY Son U Male 19 Ireland General Laborer
Mary KELLY Daur U Female 17 Ireland Servant
Patrick KELLY Son Male 13 Ireland Scholar
Elizabeth KELLY Daur Female 10 Ireland Scholar
Garret F. KELLY Son Male 7 Lodge, Denbigh, Wales Scholar
Thomas E. KELLY Son Male 4 Ireland
Timothy KELLY Son Male 1 Lodge, Denbigh, Wales |
Author: Timsta
Friday, 31 January 2003 - 06:05 pm | | Chris:
Fascinating. Isn't there a statement somewhere to the effect that MJK had six or seven brothers? (Barnett inquest? Too lazy to look it up right now.)
Regards
Timsta |
Author: chris scott
Friday, 31 January 2003 - 07:19 pm | | Hi Timsta
Yes - Barnett said
"She told me she had one sister, who was a traveller with materials from market place to market place. She also said she had 6 brothers at home and one in the army..."
CS |
Author: chris scott
Friday, 31 January 2003 - 07:47 pm | | Timsta
I have found the Denbigh Kellys in the 1901 Census as well. Now an all male household (2 brothers and 3 nephews. I have tried to find Hubert Snr but none of that age and place of birth in 1901. The only BRIDGET KELLY with right age (67) and place of birth is registered in 1901 as living in Bermondsey at 5 Anthony Street. This entry is intriguing as the head of household is Bridget aged 67, born Ireland, widowed which all fits. However, the only only member of the household is another Mary Kelly, aged 21, born Bermondsey. Of course it's not impossible she had another daughter at the age of 46 but it seems a little odd. The Mary mentioned in the 1881 census would by the time of the 1901 census have been 37 but of her I can find no trace.
Kelly household (Brymbo) in 1901 Census
Address:
Berse Cottage,
Bersham, Southsea
Denbighshire
Head
PATRICK KELLY aged 33 born Ireland
Surface Foreman at Colliery
Single
Others:
Brother:
Garrett F Kelly aged 27 born Denbigh
Surface Foreman at Colliery
Married
Nephew
Francis J Kelly aged 6 born Chester, Cheshire
Nephew
John Kelly aged 5 born Rhos, Denbigh
Nephew
Hubert Kelly aged 3 born Broughton, Denbigh
Hope this gets your interest
All the best
Chris S |
Author: Timsta
Saturday, 01 February 2003 - 01:44 pm | | Chris:
About time to check the records of the 2nd Battalion Scots Guards, wouldn't you think?
Regards
Timsta |
Author: chris scott
Saturday, 01 February 2003 - 02:56 pm | | Definitely- and the Inniskilling Dragoons - see post above about O'Brien name
Chris S |
Author: Joan O'Liari
Sunday, 02 February 2003 - 09:27 pm | | Greetings all;
While doing some family research, and noticing the reference to Denbigh, Wales in your thread,I came across the following for the 1881 census; The list is from the Sunderland workhouse, Bishopswearmouth, Durham. The Head of the workhouse is listed as Lemuel Richard Davies, age in 1881 was 31 and birthplace is Gells Pewtre, Denbigh, Wales. His wife Mary was 38 (quite a bit older), born in Broxton, Cheshire. No children are listed as living at the Workhouse with them,and 699 residents are listed. I found this at www.users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/Sunderland/Sunderland workhouse/
Hope this will help with finding out more about Mary.
Midnyte |
Author: chris scott
Monday, 10 February 2003 - 12:52 pm | | RICHARD MANSFIELD
While looking for something else (that is often the way!!) I found our old friend Richard Mansfield (later of Jekyll and Hyde fame) in the UK 1881 census. At the time he was boarding in London and, interestingly, he is listed not only as an actor but also as a law student.
The address where he was boarding 1881 was 107 Gt Russell St and the full listing for the household is:
Frank M. COBBETT Head M Male 33 Blackheath, Kent, England Insurance Agent Edinbro Life
Hazel COBBETT Wife M Female 23 Virginia, America
Alfred SCOTT Boarder U Male 31 Peckham Rye, Surrey, England Clerk In Holy Orders
Richd. MANSFIELD Boarder U Male 27 Massachusetts Actor ((Law Student))
Albert BACK Boarder U Male 23 Cambridge, England Law Student
Francis DENFRI Serv M Male 39 (F), Italy Manager Of Boarding Ho
Caroline BARIDAN Serv U Female 27 Plymouth Cook Dom Serv
Eliza MACER Serv U Female 20 Chelmsford, Essex, England Housemaid Dom Serv
Hope this is of interest
Chris S |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Monday, 10 February 2003 - 09:05 pm | | Hi Chris,
I notice that Albert Back, Mansfield's fellow
boarder, was also a law student. Possibly they
knew each other . In 1881, however, Mansfield
had appeared in some D'Oyly Carte companies
in productions of The Pirates of Penzance (as
Major General Stanley). Possibly he lied to
the census taker, or it was a mistake. If he
lied it may have been to remain in that rooming
house - note that the other listed boarder is a
clerk in Holy Orders.
Jeff |
Author: richard nunweek
Tuesday, 11 February 2003 - 07:32 am | | Hi Chris, and Jeff.
Letter from a person claiming to be the Ripper 27 th sept 89 addressed to The chief Inspector commercial road police station.
The next turn out will be in a turning out of commercial road, close to Gardners shop.
Now I shall tell you what I am. clerk in holy orders, few years ago at St Pancras church . Good Morning Amen[ this letter was posted at grays new road]
Just thought I would mention that as i have always had a sneaking suspision that the murders could have religious overtones, also that man Marshall saw and heard say to Stride ; You will say anything but your prayers; was described to be middle aged the boarder was 31 years old in 1881 which would make him 38 in 88[ middle aged]
Of course pure coincedence , but why not?.
Regards Richard. |
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