Author: Timsta
Friday, 08 November 2002 - 02:45 pm |        |
Here's 200 yard and 400 yard radius circles around the Frying Pan.
whoops next post has it.
Regards
Timsta |
Author: Timsta
Friday, 08 November 2002 - 02:47 pm | |
Here's 200 yard and 400 yard radius circles around the Frying Pan.
Regards
Timsta |
Author: Goryboy
Friday, 08 November 2002 - 05:04 pm | |
Great map, Timsta! Do you have any showing the likely route of JTR the night of Sep. 30th, from Dutfield's to Mitre, then from Mitre to Goulston?
Just wondering.
goryboy |
Author: The Viper
Friday, 08 November 2002 - 06:35 pm | |
Timsta, or Anybody Else,
Could you please explain to us why the Frying Pan has been singled out for special attention here on the boards in recent days? After all, it was just one of hundreds of pubs in the core East End. Isn't its only published connection of the case to the fact that Polly Nichols had been drinking there on the night of her death? Given its location at the corner of Thrawl Street where Polly had lodged for some time, the fact that she drank there doesn't look to be at all remarkable. That Polly was murdered further away from the Frying Pan than were any of the other Canonical victims makes its use as a focal point all the more mystifying to this observer.
Regards, V. |
Author: Timsta
Friday, 08 November 2002 - 06:54 pm | |
Goryboy:
I could make one, and it would have Half Moon Passage in it somewhere, but I'm not sure if I can stand that level of controversy.
Viper:
Dunno about the special attention; Garry Wroe suggested I might make the map above. I think it's likely that our man had some social contact with at least one of the victims if not more, and the FP seems as likely as place for that to occur as any. The other published connection is the quote from Sarah Lewis' niece in Cullen: although provably embellished (or downright nonsense, if you like), it does make reference to MJK bringing home (presumed) clients from the FP. But as you say, the FP was only one of (I would argue tens, not hundreds) of pubs where these possible social encounters might have taken place.
I could as easily have drawn a map centered on the Ringers', or the Horn of Plenty, or more interestingly, the Bricklayer's Arms in Settles St, I suppose.
Regards
Timsta |
Author: Timsta
Friday, 08 November 2002 - 07:08 pm | |
Viper:
Frying Pan connection or not, I still think the idea of that general locale representing the center of the killer's 'comfort zone' is not too outlandish. Your point about the Nichols murder site got me thinking though:
- maybe Nichols was tailed down Whitechapel High St or Old Montague St, until such time as she entered a sufficiently deserted area? We assume she was of frail appearance, and might therefore have represented a 'soft target'.
- where the heck was she headed, all the way out there, at that time of night?
Regards
Timsta |
Author: Timsta
Friday, 08 November 2002 - 08:05 pm | |
ok, I admit it, I was hired by the Shiraz to build enough credibility such that they could get away with putting a plaque up.
"Jack the Ripper drank here."
Right, but I bet he never ate the Sag Paneer.
Regards
Timsta
(with tongue firmly in cheek) |
Author: Esther Wilson
Saturday, 09 November 2002 - 09:13 am | |
This is a great map! Thanks for posting it. 
Esther |
Author: Caroline Morris
Monday, 11 November 2002 - 04:42 am | |
Hi Timsta,
That's typical of the Shiraz to be going for the double event - we are currently in negotiations for a similar plaque:
"Liza and Caz slept here."
Love,
Caz |
Author: Monty
Tuesday, 12 November 2002 - 12:02 pm | |
Timsta
Half moon passage ????????
Are you mad ?????
I agree with your idea to an extent but I would have looked at Doss houses.
Re Nichols. Would the idea that she was looking for a place to spend the night rather than a client be too off centre ??
I wonder where ?? What doss houses are or rather were out that way ??
I have a feeling she was picked up on the way as opposed to being followed.
Just my thoughts,
Monty
|
Author: Monty
Tuesday, 12 November 2002 - 12:07 pm | |
Caz,
I had though of a comment regarding that a plaque, stating the same, should have been put up across most of the East end but for fear of having my ass kicked I shant......
..........damn it, I already have.....Im sorry,
Tsk, tsk, Naughty Monty
 |
Author: Timsta
Tuesday, 12 November 2002 - 03:48 pm | |
Monty:
"Half moon passage ????????
Are you mad ?????"
I rather thought this might be the reaction, which is why I didn't attempt to fulfil goryboy's request.
But...whyever not? It's certainly on the way from Berner St to Mitre Sq. I'm really, *really* interested in this area (bounded roughly by Somerset St/WHS/Gt Alie St/Leman St), since a) it wasn't included in the house to house (as far as I can tell); b) it's just as close to the murder sites etc. as any location within the 'canonical rectangle'; c) it seems to be exclusively commercial premises, which appears unusual for the area at the time (I am still toying with the idea that the killer may have had a bolthole, and it may have been within commercial premises to which he had access, but that's just a possibility, to my mind).
Unfortunately I don't own a 1888 Kelly's or POD, and the Guildhall Library is kinda far from me, so I haven't been able to ascertain what businesses were in the area. (Any research most welcome btw.) What's that big dark blue blob on Buckle St, for example? A common lodging house, perhaps?
"I agree with your idea to an extent but I would have looked at Doss houses.
Re Nichols. Would the idea that she was looking for a place to spend the night rather than a client be too off centre ??
I wonder where ?? What doss houses are or rather were out that way ??
I have a feeling she was picked up on the way as opposed to being followed."
Yeah, nice idea about the dosshouses. Maybe she had no money and was heading for a casual ward? Perhaps Viper or someone can help us here. What was the address of the Mile End Casual, for example?
Regards
Timsta |
Author: Monty
Wednesday, 13 November 2002 - 07:59 am | |
Timsta,
I was joshing about Half moon passage. Its very plausible and might have been useful as a dodge in.
Gowers Walk onto Church lane stands strong in my mind though.
You sorta pre-emptied my reply by stating that (as far as I know) your favorite area was business as opposed to residential and therefore may not have been included in the house to house for that reason. Nightwatchmen throws a spanner in that theory a little.
I was going to ask if you've checked out that area recently but having just seen your profile you may not have....but I may be wrong. Its a fairly commercial/business area now. Some buildings have changed little. Hell, I dont think they have been cleaned since 1888.
Forget that dark blue blob on Buckle st, Im far more interested in the public baths between Goulston st and Castle ally. What time did they open or close ??
But I ramble on....as usual. Im going to dig out some of my maps tonight. I'll try and answer your question about the blue blob of Buckle st....unless the Great and Good Viper beats me to it.
Monty
|
Author: Monty
Thursday, 14 November 2002 - 11:55 am | |
Timsta,
Spot the c*ck-up ??
I meant Backchurch lane and across to Church lane.
It matters not anyway.
The only thing I can come up with for your dark blue blob on your Booth map is another Board School.....but I fear I may be incorrect.
Useless Monty
 |
Author: Timsta
Thursday, 14 November 2002 - 01:09 pm | |
Monty:
Yeah, I guessed you meant Back Church Lane.
Wouldn't a board school have remained uncolored in Booth's map, not being a residential establishment? The one in Buck's Row isn't colored (and actually is marked as 'BO. SCH.' on the underlying map).
Regards
Timsta |
Author: The Viper
Thursday, 14 November 2002 - 05:34 pm | |
Timsta and Monty,
Mile End Old Town Casual Ward was in Bancroft Road. For a handy sire about these workhouses click Here.
Afraid I'm not familiar with Buckle Street, but all the dark area on the Booth map need be is a run-down tenement where the poor congregated in rented rooms.
Those bath houses in Castle Alley, later incorporated into Old Castle Street, still stand. (Actually the front of the complex faced onto Goulston Street - they were quite extensive.) The building was converted quite recently to the new Women's Library. Since they have an exhibition on there called 'Dirty Linen' right now you might want to phone them up and ask if they have any history of the baths and their opening times. But I wouldn't mention that you're a Ripperologist ;-)
As you probably realise, the murder of Alice MacKenzie took place very close to the Castle Alley building. The bath superintendent's wife gave evidence at the Inquest.
Regards, V. |
Author: Timsta
Thursday, 14 November 2002 - 05:59 pm | |
Viper:
Happen to know which end (north/south) of Bancroft Rd the Casual was in? (I know you must, you go the Bancroft Rd library a lot, right?).
It's a fair hike, but might just possibly be in Nichols' direction of travel, assuming some kinda Devonshire St/St Peters St shortcut.
My, that area's changed a lot since 1888, hasn't it? Luftwaffe?
Regards
Timsta |
Author: The Viper
Friday, 15 November 2002 - 03:15 am | |
Take a look at the map of the Mile End Workhouse on that link above. The Casual Ward was immediately behind where the Bancroft Library is located now, so 100+ yards north of the Mile End Road and off the eastern side of the street.
Rather than take a lot of twists and turns through the backstreets I suspect that Kate Eddowes went straight down the main road and turned off at Bancroft Rd. to the casual ward.
Regards, V. |
Author: Monty
Friday, 15 November 2002 - 11:36 am | |
Viper,
What wonderful pieces of information you come up with.
Thank you
Monty
|
Author: Liza Hopkinson
Sunday, 17 November 2002 - 04:13 pm | |
Hi Caz
.............or Liza and Caz will be sleeping there in December! |
