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** This is an archived, static copy of the Casebook messages boards dating from 1998 to 2003. These threads cannot be replied to here. If you want to participate in our current forums please go to https://forum.casebook.org **
Mental Illness
Casebook Message Boards: General Discussion: Miscellaneous:
Mental Illness
Author: Timsta
Saturday, 17 August 2002 - 05:05 pm |        | Those of you who bother to read my often rambling posts will know that I believe the WM to have been suffering from some form of schizophrenic or schizo-affective disorder, more than likely including some 'ritual' delusional belief system, and possibly command hallucinations also.
Modern delusional belief systems of schizophrenics often incorporate 'implants', coded messages sent via TV and radio, FBI/CIA/MIB conspiracies, etc. Obviously these kinds of constructs would not occur in this form back in the 1880s.
My question is: do we have any good source material describing the nature of delusional systems found in mentally ill patients during this period? Just as there are commonalities in modern cases, there may have been similar analogs in Victorian times. I think that any insight into the form in which delusional systems expressed themselves might help us identify any indicators left by the WM.
I haven't read 'Psychopathia Sexualis' (although unlike Littlechild I *can* spell it) - wasn't on my course reading list - is it worth perusing? Any other suggestions?
Regards
Timsta |
Author: Simon Owen
Saturday, 17 August 2002 - 06:58 pm | | Probably might take some form of ' message from God ' or from angels or demons or something.
I remember one case where a guy couldn't fall asleep because the voices in his head threatened to destroy the world if he didn't keep them busy - and so he didn't sleep.I think this lasted quite a long time , but one day the problem vanished and he simply walked out of the asylum. How the man avoided sleep deprivation I don't know.
I think the case ocurred in Czechoslovakia or Poland about 1900-1910 , can't remember the name or the exact details. |
Author: Scott Nelson
Saturday, 17 August 2002 - 11:02 pm | | | If the Killer were alive today, he'd probably be an avid Philip K. Dick fan. |
Author: Dan Norder
Sunday, 18 August 2002 - 12:26 pm | | As Simon says, paranoid delusions of the time probably were often religious in nature, as they often are today as well. Messages really could be blamed on just about anything. Ghosts, fairies, the police, the landlord, the Jews, the Irish.
It's been a while since I read up on Freud's original work instead of later interpretations and critics, but there's likely to be some useful info in there.
I personally find it doubtful that Jack could have had a serious abberation with full fledged hallucinations, but certainly some wrongheaded notions are possible. I'm not sure there's be any way to find proof one way or another though. It might be interesting as a hypothetical exercise.
Dan |
Author: Divia deBrevier
Sunday, 18 August 2002 - 01:33 pm | | Dear Simon:
The sleep deprivation probably added to his audial/visual hallucinations regarding the safety of the world. My personal experience has been that I can go for 72 hours without sleep. After that, I start having visual hallucinations. I haven't had audial hallucinations, but I am certain that it is possibly triggered by sleep deprivation also.
Dear Dan:
I agree; I'm not so sure that the Ripper was a schizophrenic suffering from any kinds of hallucinations, nor do I think he was in psychosis. I suppose it's possible, though. I do, however, believe that he had serious emotional problems, poor coping skills and anger management (to put it mildly). This would be more likely to have been caused by traumatic experiences rather than a biochemical disorder. However, I will point out that biochemical disorders of the brain (like bipolar disorder) can remain dormant until the person is subjected to a traumatic event (i.e.: witness or victim of a violent and/or sexual crime).
Warm regards,
Divia |
Author: Jeff Hamm
Sunday, 18 August 2002 - 09:52 pm | | Hi,
I beleive Kosminski is described as being guided by "instincts" that "told him to do things", like eat bread out of gutters, to not bath, etc. The doctors at the time concluded he was having auditory hallocinations. Messages from God, the Devil, instincts, the land of faerie, control by a witch/wizard, etc, I think were the common interpretation that schizophrenics would give for such things. As things like radio and TV became common, then this "sense of being externally controlled" starts being attributed by radio and TV and less to the Queen of Faerie. I think God and Deamons are still pretty common, but witches and wizards are now secret agents.
- Jeff |
Author: Martin Fido
Monday, 19 August 2002 - 08:12 am | | Timsta et al: If you go back to the posting I made transcribing my old notes on patients in workhouse infirmaries and Colney Hatch, you'll find some of the delusions recorded at the time - the ones that interested me (natch) being the Ripper-related ones: the man who thought he was either the Ripper or Jesus Christ: the man who thought his flute could tell him who teh Ripper was.
All the best,
Martin F |
Author: Jeff Hamm
Monday, 19 August 2002 - 07:29 pm | | Hi,
The delusions listed tend to fit quite nicely into the standard devisions between delusions of grandeur (i.e., the fellow who thinks he's getting 40 pianos and will be very rich; thinking one is Jesus Christ; even thinking one is Jack the Ripper would fit because JtR was "famous"). The fellow with "the magic pipe that would tell him who JtR was" has a delusion of grandeur. He's basically claiming that he could solve the mystery that everyone is talking about (so he's much better than everyone else, etc).
The others tend to be delusions of "persecution". The kid who thought his workmates were going to blow him up with gunpowder, for instance. Thinking people are falsely accusing you of being Jack the Ripper would fit here. The difference from the previous "grandeur" version lies in if you think you are the "person" everyone is looking for then you think you are the celebrety (it doesn't matter that JtR isn't a 'good guy'). Persecution version is the notion that "people are looking for me because they think I'm JtR but I'm not!" (you are being wrongly looked for and could be arrested and executed when you didn't do anything - so you are being persecuted). The labels are meant to be desciptive.
It's interesting how many of the paranoid delusions include thinking they are being searched for as JtR. With the increased police presence, all the public attention on JtR, and with the probability that these people were questioned by the police on some occasion, then these events could easily get encorporated into a paranoid delusion of persecution. And by questioned, I only mean the police may have stopped and asked them their name. Depending on the severity of the illness, even just seeing more police than usual would be enough to convince them that they are being looked for.
In many ways, this sort of data indicates just how "topical" the murders were at the time. It also suggests that the increased police presence was noted - at least by those who are inclined to notice anything (even things that are not there!)
Very interesting.
- Jeff |
Author: Timsta
Monday, 19 August 2002 - 07:55 pm | | Martin:
His *flute* ??
"One time at band camp, I met Jack the Ripper..."
Regards
Timsta |
Author: Martin Fido
Tuesday, 20 August 2002 - 08:01 am | | Memory translating my musical rather than nicotinous interpretation of "pipe", Timsta.
All the best,
Martin F |
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