Author: lucky pierre
Monday, 17 June 2002 - 12:45 pm |        |
I know that considerable credence has been given to the possible use of the "underground" by JtR for his escape.
Has any research been done on what was beneath Whitechapel in 1888? Sewers, aqueducts, etc.?
Include anything that predates modern London that would go back to Roman times.
We keep looking for JtR in the shadows of Whitechapel...perhaps we should cast a gaze below? |
Author: Simon Owen
Monday, 17 June 2002 - 02:48 pm | |
| Well , its certainly a possibility - maybe Viper could find a sewer map of Victorian London for us. |
Author: lucky pierre
Monday, 17 June 2002 - 05:01 pm | |
Simon:
The important point is that IT IS NOT an impossibility. The pursuit of JtR through the streets of Whitechapel may have been a "boondoggle" in the first place. I await further evidence. |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Monday, 17 June 2002 - 05:40 pm | |
| Lucky, This topic has been brought up some time ago. Criminals have also been known to travel along railway tracks to keep off the roads. A railway track ran along by Bucks Row. One at Aldgate I believe.Tracks went all over the East End above and below ground.Cannot tell you about the sewers though.I know several people with a mind like one though perhaps they can help us!!! |
Author: lucky pierre
Monday, 17 June 2002 - 05:51 pm | |
| Ivor, it seems they were looking (or staked out) EVERY possible cul-de-sac they could imagine. Perhaps they were eluded from below...it would explain how no one with any blood on them emerged on the streets...it was washed off in a sewer or aqueduct. Could JtR have came up from the "bowels of the earth" and returned the same? |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Monday, 17 June 2002 - 06:32 pm | |
Some of these old victorian sewers were large enough to drive a car along them.But if he used the sewers he would emerge stinking like a skunk. As I said before the police were all plotted up in the wrong places. They were so busy in the pubs and down the wrong areas that they never expected him to travel on the main roads and that is one of several good reasons why he used them.
1. They were very long, very wide, and straight roads and the quickest way to get from A to B is in a straight line.
2. They were very busy so he would be like a tree in a wood and appear invisible so to speak.
3. No one thought he was using the main roads that is why the police told the local prostitutes to stay on the main roads.
4. Prostitutes felt safe on the main roads because they were informed they were safe by the police.So when the killer picked them up on the main roads they felt secure. Each murder site is laid out in the same manner from a main road. The killer picked them up on a main road, took them down a side road,took them off the side rd to any available cover and then killed them. After the deed was done he simply retraced his steps back to the main rd and went straight to ground knowing some of the victims could be found within minutes. |
Author: alex chisholm
Monday, 17 June 2002 - 06:51 pm | |
Hi Lucky/Simon & Ivor
HO 144/221/A49301C ff.68-70, contains a letter, dated Oct. 1, 1888, from Mr. James Payne (perhaps Royal), of 15 Waterloo Place, addressed to “My dear Pemberton” on the subject of sewers.
The attached Home Office minute sheet explains that Mr. Payne:
“Considers it probable that the murderer made his escape by the sewers. Suggests that they should be watched. Once wrote a novel in which a murderer escaped in this way: observes that the murderer always goes to the novel for his lessons.”
This is followed by the further note:
“Mr. Pemberton, A personal letter to you. I have read this letter to Sir Chas W. & shown it to Mr. Monro. They neither of them think such escape impossible.”
So the authorities were aware of this possible escape route in 1888, but whether any active steps were taken to watch or investigate the sewers remains, I think, unknown.
Best Wishes
alex |
Author: lucky pierre
Monday, 17 June 2002 - 07:46 pm | |
| Thanks, Alex. Apparently, I'm not off the beaten path as far as I originally thought! |
Author: lucky pierre
Monday, 17 June 2002 - 07:49 pm | |
| Can ANYONE give me the below ground view of Whitechapel circa 1888? Now that I feel that I'm not completely off track, it would be darn nice (if possible) to know what was beneath the streets of Whitechapel! |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Monday, 17 June 2002 - 09:20 pm | |
| Alex, Very interesting point made about the murderer always going to the novel. I would imagine that the sewers under the East End are so complex and dangerous that one could meet with rather a nasty accident. Being covered with a few drops of blood is one thing but to emerge from an East End sewer 1n 1888 would attract attention if only because of the smell. Such an escape is not impossible I agree but I just cant be bought on that idea. For a start the killer would have to know the sewers like the back of his hand. What do you think on the idea Alex ? |
Author: lucky pierre
Monday, 17 June 2002 - 09:30 pm | |
| Who would be awake at 3/4 A.M. to notice him Ivor IF he was wearing a sanitation worker's garb? How do you know that he didn't emerge 4/5 miles from the site of the murder? IF he located an aqueduct of water along the way, what's to stop him from using soap & changing clothes? IS THIS ANY CLEARER TO YOU, Ivor? |
Author: alex chisholm
Monday, 17 June 2002 - 09:56 pm | |
Hi Ivor
I tend to agree with you that emerging from a Whitechapel sewer may well have attracted more attention than simply leaving a murder scene through the streets. But then, in Lucky’s favour, if the murderer was well acquainted with the sewer network, exiting in a secluded spot to avoid detection would be possible.
So, while I’m not convinced that the sewers were the murderer’s most likely escape route, I couldn’t completely discount the possibility.
Best Wishes
alex |
Author: Andy & Sue Parlour
Tuesday, 18 June 2002 - 06:36 am | |
Hello all re; Tunnels.
We have been researching the tunnel system in London's East End for 3 years. The Knight Templars had strongholds called Commanderies situated in East London. One in Hackney which was built in the 14th century,was known as Temple House. By the late 17th century it was a Tavern called the Blue Post's Inn, later Bob's Hall. When demolished in 1825, underneath was found a network of tunnels, presumably escape routes, hiding places and places to stash treasures.
One tunnel led to the chapel of St John nowadays the St John Hospice in Mare Street this was at least 200yards long.
Under Christ Church in Spitalfields there are tunnels which are bricked up. We have maps and some photos of these. One in particular, we are convinced, goes in the direction of St Dunstans and from there to St Georges in the East, all three churches we believe built on ground once owned by the Templars.
JTR could therefore had an undergrund escape route from Whitechapel, if he or they had a knowledge of these tunnels. Or perhaps been a Templar.
The Victorians were not slow in using these old tunnels when building London's sewerage, storm and rain systems, they incorporated them and the much earlier Roman drains, some of which were still in very good condition after nearly 2000 years, into their plans.
Growing up in the East End London I once went down into a tunnel in Hackney with a friend who worked for the Metropolitan Water Board. We walked in the direction of Temple Mills, where there had once been a Templar farm. The tunnel was at least 5ft 10ins high and the brickwork was obviously done by craftsmen with keystone supports every few yards holding the roof up.It was said to 5 to 6 hundred years old which made it most likely the handiwork of the Templars.
We have written a thesis on the tunnels of East London which at the moment is with a T.V.production company. |
Author: Vila
Tuesday, 18 June 2002 - 01:34 pm | |
Andy & Sue,
So you are saying that these tunnels were open for Jack to use if he wished? And of course, knew about them. And that some of them have been bricked up since that era? Sorry for the confusion, but I couldn't tell from your post.
Vila |
Author: Simon Owen
Tuesday, 18 June 2002 - 01:40 pm | |
Interestingly , Mitre Square was very much associated with the Freemasons - who are said to be the descendants of the Templars - therefore there could be a tunnel link to that area , or an underground chamber.
It brings up an interesting point about the Goulston writing - imagine if Jack had hidden UNDERGROUND from the police , and then had popped up to leave his cryptic message and fled. He wouldn't have known how long the police would have been combing the area , which could explain the delay in the message appearing on the wall.
Given the two murders - of Kelly and Chapman - within 5 minutes walk of Christ Church , could there be a tunnel link here ? An underground room could have been used for stowing murder kit , body parts and a change of clothing too.
This is an interesting little thread ! |
Author: lucky pierre
Tuesday, 18 June 2002 - 02:26 pm | |
Andy & Sue:
God Bless you both! I thought I was on to something here...it is not IMPLAUSIBLE to think that JtR was using these tunnels, sewers, aqueducts, etc. He remains undetected as the authorities look "topside" for him...he can pop up like a gopher and look around ANYTIME he wants! This makes the "double event" even more plausible with different time constraints!
Thank you again!
P.S. I'd love to look at this THESIS of yours! |
Author: Andy & Sue Parlour
Tuesday, 18 June 2002 - 02:31 pm | |
Vila & Simon. We have always entertained the idea that JTR could have known about the tunnels.
And if he did they would be the perfect means of escape from any of the murder sites.
The Templars were master excavators, you only have to read about their excavations under Herods (Solomons)Temple in Jerusalem. Charles Warren when a captain in the Royal Engineers excavated the same tunnels in 1867, where he found evidence that the Templars had been there in the 12th & 13th centuries. There is still to this day a Warren's shaft and a Warren's gate named after him in Jerusalem. Remember Warren was one of the highest masons in the land and a Templar. He was the founder of the Quator Coronati Lodge no 2076 of Masonic History in 1886. The Premier Lodge in the World of Masonic History.
There was an actual meeting of this lodge on the night of November the 9th 1888, whether Sir Charles Warren attended we do not know.
Vila. Many of the tunnels we have researched were still open in 1888. They were bricked up in the World War 2 as the cellars under these buildings were used as air- raid shelters during the Blitz.
Many people including young children sought refuge from the bombing, the tunnels we suspect were bricked up to stop children wandering off down them. |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Tuesday, 18 June 2002 - 04:06 pm | |
Lucky,
For someone to do as you think possible then they must have a knowledge of the tunnel sytem. You cant just open up a man hole cover jump in and hope to find your way around the East End.Also it is very dangerous to go running about in such places if you have no experience.I have said it is possible but you must have the experience to know your way around such a system.You should contact Tower Hamlets Council and inform them of your interest with the sewer system or tunnel system under the East End.
Also I would first of all check to see if any entry points etc existed near any of the murder sites. If not then the killer had no need to use the system and it would be highly improbable that he did.Also if you wish to know about the system speak to someone who works down them and they will tell you what is, or what is not possible. |
Author: lucky pierre
Tuesday, 18 June 2002 - 04:47 pm | |
Why take such a negative attitude, Ivor? Gosh it was dangerous to go into the tunnels?...as dangerous as the risks involved in killing people? I wonder how much "experience" JtR had in carving up prostitutes before he started? I would PREFER to read the Parlour's thesis first BEFORE I put on any irrelevant disclaimers.
It isn't preposterous but APPARENTLY is "crimping" whatever theory(s) that you've been subscribing for us. It is simply AMAZING that JtR can be what you have described here on the casebook yet he was "scared" to go into the tunnels. Ivor, you're beginning to come off as some kind of pious, dogmatic fraud! |
Author: Ivor Edwards
Tuesday, 18 June 2002 - 11:15 pm | |
| Lucky, Never once did I imply that the ripper was scared to go into tunnels so get your facts right and dont twist my words around. All I stated was that for someone to do what you suggest then they must have some experience of the tunnel system.So get a grip on yourself.I even stated it was possible for the killer to use the sewer system. If someone asked me to commit a series of crimes and I had to use the sewer system to move about in then common sense dictates that I would have to check them out in advance. Failing that I would have to be with someone who knew them very well. Only a fool would use them on speculation. I am not taking a negative attitude since when is showing caution negative? It is my opinion that the killer never used the sewer system because he had no need to use it.All he had to do was use the main roads simply because no one expected him to use them. The police were not looking for him on the main roads and they even went so far as to tell the prostitutes to keep to the main roads.The last time Chapman was seen alive she was on the main Whitechapel Road. Kelly was seen to be picked up by a suspect on the main road.Eddowes was last seen with a suspect only 61 metres from the main road.It was thought by many that Chapman was picked up In Commercial Street which is a main road.I am talking about Jack the Ripper here and not the Phantom of the Opera.And dont start calling people names because they dont agree with a point you make.For the record you are out of order if you or anyone else would care to look at my last post to you it does not deserve such a rude response as you have given. |
Author: lucky pierre
Tuesday, 18 June 2002 - 11:38 pm | |
We're not just talking sewer(s) here. The Parlours are talking tunnels...and I don't think every tunnel was turned into a sewer. It means a catacomb as far as I am concerned. JtR also doesn't need an outlet directly adjacent to a murder site...he needs one "in the area." This manhole cover conjecture of yours is silly! The Parlours surely will tell you that many of these tunnels are accessible WITHOUT going to a sewer drain or manhole cover...now or in 1888! As for your sophistry, try me instead of a constable. I'm a novice at this JtR search but I can cripple your sarcastic banter at will.
FYI: I came up with my subterranean conjecture purely by chance. I noticed on the History Channel that they've been running a series on "hidden passages" and JUST wondered what lurked UNDER Whitechapel...apparently it wasn't that far-fetched. I'm here purely for "free inquiry" and not to be jabbed at by somebody who is afraid to admit they could be wrong. |
Author: Harry Mann
Wednesday, 19 June 2002 - 05:41 am | |
Anyone using the tunnel or sewer systems in 1888,would be taking a very grave risk.The two most common dangers were flooding and build up of toxic gasses.Even in more modern times,workers have been trapped and have died in tunnel and sewer systems.
We know that the night of the double murder it rained quite heavily,and the night Kelly died it also rained heavily,so flooding of the tunnel systems was a real possibility on those two occasions. |
Author: Andy & Sue Parlour
Wednesday, 19 June 2002 - 10:50 am | |
Re: The Tunnels in Spitalfields.
From the photos we have of below Christ Church, Lucky is correct in assuming there are catacombes.
We are only talking about relatively short distances between points, especially in the Spitalfields. Under most medieval churches there are crypts. Crypts usually have outside door entrances hidden from view. Also to access these tunnels manholes are not used, manholes are primarily for access to sewers.
Anyone who used these tunnels would only do so if they had a good knowledge of them. You only have to think of the tunnel community that live and survive below New York City in todays age.
Near to us in the village of Gt Clacton stands the Norman church of St John, it has been derelict for some years and was nearly demolished but a fund was set up and over the last five years £250,000 was raised and the church has been completely renovated. When excavations were started in the crypt, tunnels were found, one led under the road to the cellar of the Ship Pub opposite. The other was bricked up after about 20yds in, it contained WW2 material left by the local Home Guard unit. All the material was in good condition the tunnels had stayed dry after nearly 60 years. It is estimated the tunnels were built in the 13th century. |
Author: Andy & Sue Parlour
Wednesday, 19 June 2002 - 05:43 pm | |
Hello Lucky. The Catacombes under Christ Church I would have thought were quite damp. I have not ventured into those. As Ivor has pointed out anyone must have a knowledge of these dark passages to use them and also need a light. I have only said it is feasible that JTR could have used them, after all he was clever enough to evade capture espcially when murdering women in fairly open places.And it is quite possible he knew his way about underground just in the small Spitalfields area. Ivor is also correct when he says the tunnels were incorporated into the rain and sewer systems, they were there years before the Victorians put London's drains in, and their outfalls mainly ended in the Thames. I have only ever been down one tunnel that was built by the Templars, it was fairly dry although it was summer which could have accounted for that, but the air was surprisingly fresh which was probably caused by a draught. This tunnel was not part of the sewage system but a rainstorm overflow drain.
In Royston Hertfordshire, beneath what today is a busy street in the town centre, an ancient cave was discovered by workmen in 1742. This bell-shaped cave is now known to have been a meeting place and place of worship, for the Templars.Also a hiding place from persecution in the early 14th century. |
Author: lucky pierre
Wednesday, 19 June 2002 - 10:01 pm | |
Thank you again! Did you use a gasmask or oxygen supply while you were down there? Naturally, I assume that "no smoking" was asked by your companion?
The old miners used a trick with songbirds in cages to tell if harmful gases were present...think it would work for a Whitechapel underground tour?
I'd just be afraid of getting knawed by a rat the size of an English sheepdog down there! I'll bet they get PRETTY huge down there! |
Author: Simon Owen
Thursday, 20 June 2002 - 08:11 pm | |
The symbolism seems appropriate :
Jack , the monster from the id , comes up from the dark recesses to slaughter ; the dark side of the staid Victorian character which has been repressed but can be restrained no longer ; he kills and mutilates , the symbol of repressed misogyny in action , and then returns to the darkness underground where no one can catch him.
Ooh , re-reading that makes me feel quite chilly ! |
Author: Gordon S. Little
Monday, 24 June 2002 - 04:38 pm | |
There's one attractive thing about the sewer/tunnel theory. It could account for why the Ripper stopped killing so abruptly.
He went out on a rainy night and drowned in a flash flood.
He was overwhelmed by a sudden outrush of sewer gas.
He got eaten by a Giant Sewer Rat (of Sumatra?) |
Author: Harry Mann
Tuesday, 25 June 2002 - 05:06 am | |
Gordon,
Or he met the Phantom of the Opera. |
Author: David Jetson
Monday, 16 December 2002 - 12:27 pm | |
Ah, finally a thread where I can make an authoratative contribution.
First up, my "qualifications": I've been a long-time urban explorer. Run a quick internet search on "urban exploration" if you need to find out what that involves. The short version, I suppose, would be "recreational trespassing."
One of the most interesting environments to explore, for strange people like me, is underground. In particular, the stormwater drains that lie under all cities.
It is important to know the difference between the stormwater system and the sewers, which are generally confused. In every reasonably modern city and town I've heard of, the two systems are completely seperate. So, no-one wades through s__t for fun, if that's what you were wondering.
Stormwater drains are reasonably clean, and except during rains, reasonably dry. To understand how the system works, you have to remember that every city, even one as old as London, was built on open ground. The countryside. When rain falls, it doesn't usually soak straight into the ground. It runs off. It seeks the path of least resistance, and follows gravity downhill.
Those paths which the rainwater runoff follows become eroded, and can, given sufficient input, become small streams, which meet up to become larger streams, which join rivers and wind on to the sea. Or they may just become minor gullies which are only wet during the rain, or run into ponds, or whatever. The point is, rainwater follows set paths.
Now, when humans come along and build cities, they cover the open ground with buildings. This means even less rainwater is absorbed by the ground, so runoff is increased.
When people started building settlements, it would have quickly become obvious that if you built in the path of storm runoff, then every time it rained your house would flood. So it would have quickly become part of any town planner's job to keep the runoffs clear, so that stormwater dispersed quickly and didn't create problems.
What I'm getting at here is that even in the earliest times, London, like every other city, would have its waterways. These would have started out being natural eroded paths and small streams. As people built around them, they would have become ditches, then some would be roofed over, and as property values increased, they would have been built over.
The usual collapses and floods would have happened, and as the town become more 'formal' the aldermen would have caused the ditches and streams to be paved and sometimes properly roofed. This eventually created the stormwater drain network that is under every city and town in the world.
At first, they would have been sewers as well, but as the problems of cleanliness became aparrent, a seperate sewer system would be built. This was understood by the Romans, who were the first to expand little Londoninium into an important town.
The reason I'm explaining all this in such detail is that while the idea of Jack wading through s__t in the sewers is unlikely for the reasons outlined in earlier posts, the idea of him travelling by the stormwater system is not such an impossibility.
Time for a rest. Part two very soon. |
Author: David Jetson
Monday, 16 December 2002 - 01:04 pm | |
Part two.
I just noticed the post that says that it rained heavily on the night of a couple of murders.
I should make it clear that I don't have an opinion on whether Jack did or didn't travel underground, I'm just trying to clear up some misconceptions about what is underground, since I've actually been there. I have personally explored about 20 different stormwater drains, and a number of other tunnel systems besides that, and I've read a lot of accounts by other subterrainian explorers. And I've done some "genuine" caving and so on, so I think that I can speak with some authority on the topic.
So, despite living on the other side of the world, I can promise you that there are stormwater drains under Whitechapel. I cannot say that there are main drains - that is, ones big enough for people to walk in, but chances are strong that they're there.
They're not too hard to enter, either. I've gained access through manholes and gutterboxes, and I can assure you that many other people have done it too. You open one up, close it after you, and the only hassle I've ever had from anyone is surprised looks from passersby.
Most graffiti in drains reaches only as far as the natural light, but every drain I've been in has a few graffitoes from intrepid explorers even in the most inaccessable places. I've personally seen graffiti that is dated in the 1940s, which certainly seems to be genuine - ie, not spray-painted.
The only real problem in travelling by drain is light. Believe me, you NEED a light source. Underground with no light at all is extremely disorientating, to say the least. It's easy to start hallucinating, imagining things that aren't there. But it's a problem that's easily solved: I have personally travelled underground using only a candle for illumination, so it's equally possible that Jack did so too. I'm not saying he did, but I have personally proved it's possible to do without too much effort.
As also stated in this thread, stormwater drains are just one possibility. Every city is riddled with tunnels, and Victorian London no doubt had plenty. They aren't all official, either. Out of sight of council officials, some people just start digging. This means that it is possible that Jack may have had access to tunnels that were not widely known.
Tunnels are forgotten and become "lost" too. The Williamson Tunnels in Liverpool, which were built in the 1820s, were huge, extensive, and by the start of the 20th century so thoroughly lost that many people doubted their existance. They are now being explored and excavated.
I do think that the possibilty of Jack using tunnels or drains is real, though the only way it could ever be proved is by the sort of diary that the Maybrick rubbish impersonates. So, it's extremely unlikely that there will ever be any real proof.
I have no way of looking at Whitechapel or scouting out possible routes. After a bit of experience, one can spot potential drain and tunnel sites. I do think it is possible that JtR travelled underground, but I can't physically visit the sites in London so there is no way to tell. Researching the history of drainage in the area might well be rewarding.
It's worth mentioning that, for instance, smuggling people out of East Berlin by way of stormwater drains was very popular until the commies figured it out and installed alarmed gates in the system. After that, tunnels were dug between buildings on either side of the Wall, and that's why the commies eventually razed all the buildings for hundreds of meters on their side of the Wall. Just an example of the usefulness and popularity of tunnel travel. |
Author: Eric Cannon
Monday, 16 December 2002 - 02:03 pm | |
This is very interesting! I somehow missed this thread last summer.
It reminds me of a lot of the Stephen King story "IT", in that a large part of the narrative takes place in these storm drains under a city in Maine.
David, in what cities have you explored these storm drains? I see by your profile that you are from Australia.
Eric |
Author: David Jetson
Monday, 16 December 2002 - 02:38 pm | |
Melbourne, Australia. Also a few country towns in Victoria: Ballarat, Malden, Marysborough. Goldmining towns, mostly: there are a great many mines in Victoria dating back to the 1850s goldrush, and I've explored (both officially and illegally) quite a few of them.
There is a worldwide network of urban explorers and since the internet has developed, there has been a lot of information-sharing. For some reason, I've never found much info on London online, but it stands to reason that a city as old and large as London would be riddled with tunnels of all types.
Certainly Paris has a world famous network of catacombs - several people from the biggest Australian Urbex group went to Paris last year and met up with the French urbex guys. I didn't go - too poor - but I saw a lot of pictures and heard a lot of stories. Unfortunately, only one of the guys spent any time in London, and didn't geta chance to explore.
If you're interested in the particular group I'm part of, visit www.caveclan.org
There are a lot of Urbex related sites online - I'll have a quick look and see if I can find anything relevant. Given that some of the activities are technically illegal, there has to be a certain amount of discretion about what's known and what's publicised.
Certainly those of us who do it regularly are very aware of safety issues and completely against making free with information on how to get into potentially dangerous places. Nobody wants anyone to get into trouble or hurt, so the irresponsible people are made unwelcome. Safety is a big issue, and the group I'm in has a 100% safety record over 15+ years of existance.
In many groups the ages are predominately late teens and early 20s, but it's also pretty common for people in their 30s (like me) and 40s to do it too. We older hands keep the younger ones behaving relatively sensibly. |
Author: Christopher T George
Monday, 16 December 2002 - 03:19 pm | |
Hi, David:
Nice to see you here and have you contributing. I visited the catacombs in Paris a couple of years ago and did not find them a too pleasurable experience, so you are welcome to your hobby! Coming from Liverpool, I do know about Williamson's Tunnels.
My friend Geoff recently bought me a book on subterranean Liverpool that covers Williamson's Tunnels, and I now note there is a similar volume, not surprisingly, for London: London Under London: A Subterranean Guide by Richard Trench and Ellis Hillmans. You may be aware of it.
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: David Jetson
Monday, 16 December 2002 - 04:39 pm | |
Those books sound interesting. Looking online I found a pretty basic map that shows various structures under London, including what the map describes as "sewers" but I suspect are more likely storm drains.
http://www.heritagemagazine.co.uk/map800.jpg |
Author: Eric Cannon
Monday, 16 December 2002 - 08:05 pm | |
I did look at www.caveclan.org. Also interesting is www.infiltration.org.
I may have to see if such a group exists in my area!
Eric |
Author: Guy Hatton
Tuesday, 17 December 2002 - 04:23 am | |
| ...but what are we to make of the ginger beer bottles found in the Williamson tunnels? |
Author: judith stock
Tuesday, 17 December 2002 - 12:02 pm | |
Dear Guy,
THAT must be the site of the infamous "Poste House"!!!!!
David is absolutely right, in that there are major networks of tunnels under London. Never mind the Tube, there are storm and sewer drains, as well as gas tunnels, and underground cemeteries..you name it, it's probably buried under the streets of Londinium! There are also the beds of several rivers, which run today, buried beneath the streets and buildings. If I thought for one moment that what was above would NOT drop directly onto my head as I pass, I would love to see what's down there....but as I KNOW the ceiling would indeed fall in, I'll pass.
LONDON UNDER LONDON is a terrific book, and will fill you in on all the subterranean sights to see.
Cheers,
J |
